Mystery 44 mag boolit and OAL question

[Reloadr]

Hello,
I'm new to the forum. Have been shooting and reloading quite a while, but as of yet no experience with cast lead. I was given some 44 magnum boolits by my dad, but can't exactly determine what they are. They look somewhat like the Lyman 429421, but the spec drawing I found shows the bullet length for those as 0.765, while mine are 0.781. Is this an RCBS clone (44-250-K)? The cast weight of mine is 245g. I was hoping some of you could tell from the photo.

My second question: for shooting in a Super Blackhawk, is there anything wrong with loading them a little longer than spec? If I set to just about at the crimp groove (see photo), the COAL would be about 1.682, while the max COAL specified in my manual for 44 Mag is 1.610. Otherwise, to shorten them to spec I can't use the crimp groove. I'm curious why the groove would be so low on the bullet.

http://s1110.photobucket.com/user/AmmoHound/media/mystery-slug-1_zpsnlelchsi.jpg.html

Thanks!

[10mmShooter]

I have two 2cav RCBS 250g K-SWC, mine drop at 255 grains with 13 BHN alloy, when loaded my COAL 1.690 or so They work great in my Anaconda and my 629s.. As long they fit your cylinder you are fine.

As to the why the crimp groove is low on K-SWC, thats the way Keith wanted it, to move more of the bullet weight outside of that .44 Special brass he was using, this gave him more case capacity and volia the .44 magnum was the result.

[SSL]

The length you quote (.781") is the same as I get with bullets cast from my NOE mold, but weight with my alloy is 258 grains. The NOE mold is an excellent choice and appears to be a derivative copy of the Lyman bullet you mentioned. They even use a similar reference number. The weight difference between your bullets and mine could be that yours is cast of an alloy with higher tin content...I'm guessing here. I'm fairly new to casting, so I am sure others here might have better ideas.

[44MAG#1]

While not the sharpest one on here. I would seat to the crimp groove and use them like that if your cylinder is long enough which with a SBH and a Smith the cylinder is long enough.
Dont overthink this. Just load and shoot.

[runfiverun]

yep^^^.

the 241 comes in about 75 different iterations.
lyman isn't so good at following their own blue prints.

I'd seat a dummy to the base of the crimp groove and chamber it.
look at the mouth of the cylinder if the boolit sticks out seat it deeper.
if it goes beyond the crimp groove then seat it over the front drive band and reduce your load to compensate.

[44man]

They will fit fine, I use my own 330 gr boolit in mine and it is way longer.
OAL means nothing if they chamber.

[44man]

OAL length on mine is 1.705.

[725]

Welcome aboard to the two new posting members. You're going to like it here, I'm sure.

[Victor N TN]

To Reloadr, the original poster, Welcome to the board.

There is a collective of more experience here on this board about cast bullets and the trials of same than anywhere I have found.

If it were me, if the powder charge is within spec and it chambers OK... then shoot a few and see how they shoot.

Good luck,
Victor

[mdi]

Lyman itself made several "versions" of the 429421. I researched mine and determined my mold is the "'70s" version (don't know correct name). Minor differences in the lube groove, crimp groove, nose length is all I noticed. I have always seated bullets to the crimp groove (revolvers) mainly when I started, pre-web, I figgered that's the way they were supposed to be, that the crimp groove/cannalure was located for a reason. My advise would be to seat to crimp groove as long as the bullet is not sticking out the end of the cylinder and disregard the listed OAL (I believe the listed OAL is what the lab tech found when he seated his bullet into his brass). Been doing it that way since my first .38 Special in '69...

I can't tell who manufactured the mold by just looking at a bullet as I would have to have drawings of the mold and measure the bullets and compare my measurements and observations to the drawings.

[GWM]

It could be just about any maker, since everybody has made their own several versions of the 429421. As mentioned Lyman's own production has varied widely too. I think it may well be one of Lyman's.

[C. Latch]

As far as OAL goes, for pistols, as long as your ammo will fit in the cylinder, the exact length doesn't matter, strictly speaking.

What does matter is this: The published load data you find was created using a bullet that stuck inside the case a certain length, giving a case capacity of a certain measurement, and that bullet had a certain amount of bearing surface and weight that contributed to the way it reacted to being shot, in terms of the pressure needed to start it moving and keep it moving. The degree that you crimp also impacts this.

When you use data created with a certain set of components, you have to account for differences in bullet weight between your bullets and those of the data, you have to account for the depth the bullet is crammed into the case, which affects pressure and velocity, and you have to account for bearing surface area, which does the same.

The point is......max loads for one bullet of X weight might need to be adjusted up or down for another bullet of the same weight. These adjustments are minor in a case like your .44 Magnum but much more critical in a smaller case like 9mm Luger.

This is why it is important to start your loads at minimum charge weights and work up to maximum. With jacketed bullets and rifle-sized cases, these differences are usually minor, and your biggest reason for starting low and working up is the inherent lot-to-lot variation in your powder (biggest reason, not only reason).

With handguns, small cases, and the vast variations in bullet designs available, you have much, much more variation to account for.

[GWM]

Drawings is one thing. The various cherries that cut the mold and the actual boolits that come out of it is another. I'm not sure there were ever two cherries that were alike. Interestingly the later Lymans have letter suffixes on the mold nameing different cherries.

[Walter Laich]

about the only issues we check with .44 Sp/Mag:

1. will they be short enough so the cylinder will rotate

2. will the bullet stay in place during shooting of the other cartridges in the cylinder (don't want to lock up a cylinder by having a bullet come up of case a bit during recoil

3. in lever action rifles (which I know you didn't ask about) will the cartridges chamber during lever operation? If they are too short they can jam (Marlin rifles for sure). We load our .44 Sp rounds to the length of .44 Mag to keep this from happening

And welcome to the form, both of you--it's a great place to learn about casting and the like

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Hello,
I'm new to the forum. Have been shooting and reloading quite a while, but as of yet no experience with cast lead. I was given some 44 magnum boolits by my dad, but can't exactly determine what they are. They look somewhat like the Lyman 429421, but the spec drawing I found shows the bullet length for those as 0.765, while mine are 0.781. Is this an RCBS clone (44-250-K)? The cast weight of mine is 245g. I was hoping some of you could tell from the photo.

...snip
Reloadr,
Welcome to the website !
Looks like you got several good answers so far.

Since you are new to loading cast boolits, I'd like to make a general statement to answer your questions ...some aspects about loading cast boolits are pretty forgiving, like the actual weight of the boolit (10 or 15 grains either way is no big deal) Same with the COAL...they just need to fit in the chamber and/or (for revolvers) not stick out of the cylinder :razz:
Good Luck.

[gwpercle]

Good rule of thumb is to crimp in the crimp groove first , in the case of cast revolver boolits , and see if they fit . OAL can be ignored here....in the groove is the place to be. If they are too long to chamber , then go to plan B.
OAL's are much more relevant when loading for semi-auto rounds and then it's not a number carved in stone that can never be exceeded or reduced.
Gary

[Reloadr]

Thanks everyone for the great replies. I've loaded some of them now, using the crimp groove as suggested. (I am already quite familiar with the practice of starting with the lowest powder charge and working up, so I followed that here as well.) But it's good to hear that others also have higher COAL's than the "specs" I found.

Since I first posted, I was rummaging around and did manage to find the mold after all! And it is indeed a Lyman 429421. I'm looking forward to casting some myself after a bit of education, arranging a well-ventilated area, and getting a source of lead (hopefully the local auto tire shops).

Thanks again for all the advice!

[44man]

To tell the truth with my old memory, the boolit looks like my original 429421 back in 56. It was a shooter. It would be interesting to know when your mold was made.