Looking at buying a original 73'. Looking for some pointers before I look at it.

[Babbott213]

I'm hopefully going to look at a original 73' Winchester in 44-40 next week. Guy says it's all original and is wanting to sell. The only thing not there is the cleaning rods. I've read up on the 73's, but I'm no expert. Does anyone have any pointers? I'm thinking about getting the serial number and doing a Cody research on the gun beforehand. Anyone have any experience with this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[021]

Ask to load, cycle and shoot it. Look down the barrel, see how it looks, black powder was tough on barrels. Never fall in love with a gun, do your homework, which is the best advice I was ever given.

[Babbott213]

Yeah, I'm hoping to do just that. I've got a fiber optic light to look in the bore with. Wish I had a bore scope though. Before I buy, I'll probably have the serial numbers researched. Think it cost under $200. I'd rather spend that than $3,000 to find out it's only worth half that or less.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[021]

Good luck, hope it works out for you. The '73 is a great gun, I traded a $350 revolver for my 1887 '73 38-40, probably one of my better deals.

[Babbott213]

Yeah, those are far and few. I've had some very good deals come my way on plural component spray equipment, but the GOOD gun deals are always just beyond my reach it seems like. Always miss them by a day or so seems like. [emoji22][emoji22]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Babbott213]

Here's some pictures of the gun I was sent. The quality isn't good. But from the serial number he gave me, it was manufactured in 1879 though. I hope to look at it in person on Thursday of this week if possible. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160410/8479d12559990049da889bee11bb7d1e.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160410/428c5543b96057ac69ce4b869f533b39.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160410/ad51e4da9088c0d2a146d7d2d21ccc3d.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160410/1ab22a4aa024b0247e422f4ec0037e8d.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160410/993ba5a599d70e840328f9ba2d03b79a.jpg

Tell me what you think if you can tell anything about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[smokeywolf]

Pics are way too dark to make out any detail. They're only slightly better than just looking at a silhouette of the rifle.

021 gave good advice. Buy based on what your eyes see, not what your heart wants. Be patient, persnickety and persistent.

Owning a '73 Winchester is a very worthwhile pursuit.

[Babbott213]

Yeah, I hope to hold it in my hands sometime on Thursday and then I can tell a lot more about it then. He's suppose to get me better pictures first of the week though. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bob208]

from what I can see. the wood edges look sharp. which means the wood has not been sanded. the letters are not smeared which means the barrel has not been polished for a reblue. the screw heads look good not buggered up. look at the muzzle it should not be blued. they were polished bright when they left the factory.

better pictures would tell more.

[rpludwig]

Join the WACA forum, post good pics, ask a lot of questions, order a letter if you're about to make a significant investment (the Cody letter will tell you when it was mfg'd, and maybe to whom it was shipped, nothing more)....and of course the obvious (cycle, chk/grade bore, chk toggle links, have a good knowledgeable win smith look at it, etc)....beware of BP fouling... looks decent from your limited resolution pics...fwiw...

Ron

[Babbott213]

Thanks! Hopefully I'll be getting some better pictures in a few days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jackpine]

No idea if you would have any interest, I have a friend that I do Cowboy Action Shooting with, just mentioned yesterday that he is going to sell his original 73, 44-40. It has been reblued, but he is asking at LOT less than you are talking about for this one. PM me if you have any interest, and I can give you a little more info and put you in touch with him

Jackpine

[35 Whelen]

What exactly are you looking for in the rifle? So many people approach these old rifles wanting a museum quality piece for $800. Ain't happenin'.

I have two of these (1886 & 1890) in 38-40 and they are what they are. Both mine have seen heavy use and I love that aspect about them. I think of it as character. To me there's nothing interesting about a 130+ year old rifle that sat in a rack most of its life. I've fired the older an awful lot this weekend and just noticed that the forearm, just ahead of the receiver, is greatly worn from being carried by a hand wrapped around the forearm at this point. The 1890 production, judging from the condition of the wood, likely spent a lot of time bouncing around the floorboard of a wagon.

On a rifle that old, it'd literally be a miracle if the bore weren't very rough. So, you either have to accept it as-is, have it re-barreled, or have it lined.

35W

[Babbott213]

No idea if you would have any interest, I have a friend that I do Cowboy Action Shooting with, just mentioned yesterday that he is going to sell his original 73, 44-40. It has been reblued, but he is asking at LOT less than you are talking about for this one. PM me if you have any interest, and I can give you a little more info and put you in touch with him

Jackpine

Jack, have him to contact me at babbott213@gmail.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Babbott213]

35 Whelen, $800! I was really just looking at spending a couple hundred on it. [emoji15][emoji15][emoji15]

But really, I'm looking for something to have as a part of history man. I'm looking at paying from $1,000 to possibly $3000 plus depending on the overall condition. I plan on having a professional check it out and go from there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[clum553946]

Although the pics are dark, that seems a little high to me. Check out gunbroker & see what similar guns are going for. The bores on most will be rough looking, but they will still shoot well if the rifling is still intact & present. Also look for barrel bulges.

[rpludwig]

here u go....!

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/winchester-1873-w7140/

[smokeywolf]

here u go....!

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/winchester-1873-w7140/

If you can pick that up within your budget, you're my new hero.

[762 shooter]

Cleaning Rods?

762

[Babbott213]

Cleaning Rods?

762

The 1873's came with cleaning rods in the butt stock for cleaning in the field.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Babbott213]

here u go....!

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/winchester-1873-w7140/

Just a little too rich for my blood. I hate that sight, as I've seen too many people use it to price they're guns by, when they're guns were in no where perfect condition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[762 shooter]

The 1873's came with cleaning rods in the butt stock for cleaning in the field.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank-you

762

[rpludwig]

[QUOTE=Babbott213;3610002]I'm hopefully going to look at a original 73' Winchester in 44-40 next week. Guy says it's all original and is wanting to sell. The only thing not there is the cleaning rods. I've read up on the 73's, but I'm no expert. Does anyone have any pointers? I'm thinking about getting the serial number and doing a Cody research on the gun beforehand. Anyone have any experience with this?

Good advice from WACA...

As as result of several topic discussions in the past, and due to the urging of several of the regulars here on the forum, I am posting this primer to aid current and future collectors. It is not the complete answer to all questions that may arise, but it should help to answer most questions.
In regards to some of the common things to look for when evaluating an old Winchester;
(1) For the "Rifles", inspect the muzzle face. If it is blued... the barrel has been reblued. The muzzle face should be perfectly flat, with a slight to moderate chamfer at the bore entrance, and most importantly, in the white.
(2) Inspect the bore. You would not believe how many of them that I have seen that have a rough, pitted, dark, or otherwise poor bore, but the rest of the gun looks like it is nearly new. On an original, high condition gun, the bore should also look like it is nearly new. This is the toughest challenge for a doctored up gun to pass.
(3) Inspect both sides of the sight dovetail slots for dings & dents. This will show you signs that the sights have been changed, or if they were removed to reblue the barrel. I have seen all too many barrels that have drift punch dings on them, but have 100% bluing over the top of the dings. I then check the rest of the barrel exterior for dings, gouges (from a vice, pipe wrench, etc.). For an octagon barrel, check the condition of the corners on all the flats. Typical wear cause rounding to occur and a corresponding loss of bluing. If the corners are not sharp, but have bluing on them... reblued!
(4) Inspect all of the factory barrel markings, and do it with both your eyes and finger tip. Verify that the markings are the correct style and location for the serial number range. For the Model 1894, you would not believe how many of them that I have looked at that have a "MODEL 94" marked barrel, and the person trying to sell it is swearing on a stack of bibles that it is "all original". Another common mistake made by a number of the people who falsely build (fake) and sell bogus Winchesters, is stamping Proof marks on a gun that should not have them.
(5) Measure the barrel length carefully if it appears to be a non-standard length. Verify the front sight dovetail cut is properly located on the barrel (.75" from the muzzle face to the forward most edge of the bottom of the dovetail slot). For rifles with a full length magazine tube, the retaining ring should be approximately 3.5" from the muzzle face to the retaining pin.
(6) For the early production blued guns (models 1892 and 1894 especially), look for the forging striation patterns on the receiver frame.
(7) For the stocks, inspect for a tight fit, and that the wood is proud of the receiver frame, upper and lower tangs, the butt plate, and the forend nose cap. If the stocks are checkered, look for over runs on the borders, and finish in the checkering. Inspect the finish type (oil or varnish), and look for any gouges, scratches, cracks, etc., that have finish in them. Inspect for evidence of any repaired cracks or splits, especially on the guns with high grade wood.
There are a substantial number of other things to look for depending on the specific Model, variation, and configuration of the gun in question. It would take writing a book to cover them all.
In final summary, to avoid being taken to the cleaners, there are several things that need to be considered;
(1) Who are you buying the gun from? There are a good number of trusted dealers, and then there are those that not. Unfortunately (in my personal experience), the latter group out numbers the first group.
(2) If the gun has a "story" or "excuse" attached to it concerning its current condition or configuration... Warning flag!!
(3) If something does not look or feel right about the gun... it most likely isn't. Trust your instincts https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/72x72/2757.png
(4) Find an unbiased collector or expert on the subject matter, and ask for advice.

[35 Whelen]

Good advice from WACA...

As as result of several topic discussions in the past, and due to the urging of several of the regulars here on the forum, I am posting this primer to aid current and future collectors.

Again, it boils down to personal preference. I've had my 1890 production '73 listed for several weeks. A "collector" contacted me, wanting to buy it, and pointed out all the imperfections in the 126 year old rifle. He used these flaws and the cartridge for which it is chambered, as the basis to offer me a few hundred dollars less than I was asking. I declined.

Fast forward a couple of weeks and someone saw pictures of the rifle, understands it's condition, yet still cannot wait to take possession. He and I are of the same school of thought; "Wow....wonder where this rifle has been and done over the last one and one quarter century?"

It's OK to be a collector and hold admiration for old firearms that are in pristine condition, but some of us prefer the "been there, done that" aspects!

Babbott, Armslist can be a great resource for good buys on firearms and there are several '73's listed now that are worth the money. I've bought a few from individuals there.

35W

[Babbott213]

Got much better pictures of the 1873 today. Can tell a lot more about it now. From what you can tell, what price range would you rate this gun? It was manufactured in 1879, 24" barrel and chambered in 44-40. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160413/dac7f554432ef6b2e280e26331856e64.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160413/7b9449ed3b0347d192043968e5ab324e.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160413/ce8776ee543875cf22aead490ddfac61.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160413/bd5b159595160abbfe4a53defe3d4e17.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160413/9e04277f0147f711a696645b6dccdb59.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160413/fc1b5d70664e663c3d6fee5de8c69900.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160413/73f6ec372442a935cc317ec1aff27753.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160413/b1548878d29dba5b9daa95807a1de4a6.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160413/e7c20fae8fd25e6fb7b1f3629005960a.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[M-Tecs]

It's hard to tell from the pics but the overall dark color of the bluing doesn't look right to me.

[TXGunNut]

Good pics of both tangs and the top of the receiver with good detail of the dust cover would be helpful. There were quite a few changes over the run of the 1873 and a collectible gun deserves a close look. If the bore is good to excellent, action in sound working order and all the right markings this rifle may be worth the asking price. Seems odd seller didn't send you pics of the more important areas, could be a warning flag.

[35 Whelen]

For its age, I think it looks really nice, very similar to my 1890 production. Here are some pictures of it for comparison:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/1873%20Winchester/20160215_103543_zpsg3buc7et.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/1873%20Winchester/20160215_103543_zpsg3buc7et.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/1873%20Winchester/20160215_103550_zpsfnpvs1jg.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/1873%20Winchester/20160215_103550_zpsfnpvs1jg.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/1873%20Winchester/DSCF1015_zps1p24038d.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/1873%20Winchester/DSCF1015_zps1p24038d.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/1873%20Winchester/DSCF1010_zpsktmaxv52.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/1873%20Winchester/DSCF1010_zpsktmaxv52.jpg.html)

I wound up selling it for $1300, which is about par for similar rifles. Check completed auctions on Gunbroker as well as Armslist for current pricing. The 44-40's do seem to command a bit higher price. I had originally wanted a 44-40, but now that I have a couple of 38-40's as well as a 44-40, I much prefer the former for shooting/plinking.

You might have him take some pictures outside as natural light seems to make for better photos.

35W

[smokeywolf]

35 Whelen is right. You need some pics taken outside. The overall and seemingly very uniform dark tone looks a bit odd.

[rpludwig]

+1 on outdoor pics needed. Bore condition? Cycle/fire it? Is that a crack or a scratch in the wrist (2nd last pic)? Bottom tang looks unusually proud of the stock...

[Speedo66]

Be nice if you can fire it. My 1889 '73's bore looks horrible, but shoots well.

[Clay M]

I had a extremely nice '73 in .38/40 that I wish I had never sold.
I was looking at buying a piece of property at the time and wanted to raise some capital.
The land deal fell through and the guns were gone.


If you want the rifle for a shooter , then examine the bore .
I can look at the bore of the old rifles and tell pretty much how well they will shoot ,I have been doing it for so long now.

Good luck to you.
Either way the '73 is a magnificent piece of western history.

[stubbicatt]

When did they go to the lever safety? I remember reading that early rifles lacked this feature, and this one is in the first few years of production, right?

[Babbott213]

Just a little update on the first 1873 that I'm looking at. On my way up from Florida I wasn't able to go by and look at the rifle. Rain had moved in and I really wanted to look at it in outdoor conditions and possibly shoot it. So I kept traveling North back home to North Central Alabama instead. But I did talk to him a good bit, and he had actually taken it to a gun smith that actually has several 73's in his collection and he said that the overall condition of the gun was above fair condition and it was a shooter. He said that it needed to be shot, so he is going to shoot it and he said that we will continue with our talks. He's not in a push to sale anyway. I just got in from California and now I have to leave out in the morning for Japan for a week. Hope to have a 73' in my hands soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk