Newbie with a 44 mag and cast bullets-Hunting velocity?

[paraord]

Hi guys,

This past fall I picked up a Ruger SBH in 44 mag, and then a model 92 clone in 44 mag so I figured I ought to reload.

Ended up with a good pile of bullets, then moulds and did a little bit of reloading once I got a chronograph.

My main goal here is for white tail in western NY, nothing like those half elk out in Ohio, but bigger than Florida deer. What should be a good ballpark velocity I should shoot for? Ill be under 100 yards but want those 100 yards to be decently flat. I am shooting the Lyman mould 429244 gas checked. The bullets I have from Matt's are 265 grain lubed and checked (until I warm up my moulds). I am using AA#9 as my powder.

My first 10 rounds averaged at 1285FPS with that bullet on top of 17.6 grains of AA#9, should I be more towards the 1100-1150 range? I dont want to be shooting lasers, just a good deer round that isnt rough on either gun, or myself. As Ive seen said "there are no varying degrees of dead".

Thanks guys,
Andrew

[clintsfolly]

Accurate loads kill deer better then just fast ones ! Any thing over 1000fps will do the deed if you do your part.

[dubber123]

If your loads are accurate, I wouldn't think there would be much advantage to slowing them down, unless they were much more comfortable to shoot for you. I shot 2 pretty much identical sized hogs, with similar meplat RF boolit designs, 1 was doing 1,000 fps. at the muzzle, 1 was doing 1,340 fps. at the muzzle. The faster one did noticeably more damage and was down much quicker. Pretty limited experience, but it was a noticeable difference in damage.

I would be inclined to leave your loads as is, or maybe even a touch faster. I doubt they would kill slower, and should flatten your trajectory a bit.

[TCLouis]

Is the 1285 out of the SBH or the 92?

[35 Whelen]

My first two deer revolver kills were with a 4 3/4" .44 Special running a 260 gr. SWC (RCBS 44-250 mould) a hair under 950 fps MV. A doe at 18 yards and a buck at around 45 proved to me that high velocity isn't required. A couple of weeks ago I axed a god size sow at 42 yds. with the same revolver and bullet, different load producing a MV of 1005 fps.

FWIW, the bullet you're using, sighted in at 50 yds., there's roughly 4" difference in drop between a 1000 fps load and a 1400 fps load, hardly enough to worry over.

I say use the most accurate load whatever the velocity may be. FWIW, you'll likely find a MV difference of about 200 fps between your Blackhawk and the rifle.

Good luck!

35W

[paraord]

Thanks everyone, that muzzle velocity was out of the SBH. Ive made up a handful of 17.0,17.3,17.6 and 17.9 and will work on accuracy and go from there ( max is 21.7 so I have quite a bit of work up room). Being new to this I was getting sucked in to numbers I think.

I was surprised with those 17.6's, I thought they were going to have all sorts of recoil but they were a joy to shoot.

35 whelen thats great to know about the approx expected MV difference between the two.

Hopefully Ill get out this morning and do a little shooting and report back after I see what each load does.

[44man]

Most of my deer kills have been with the .44 SBH and SRH. Since I moved here where I could use a revolver I have about 180 kills with them.
I use a heavy boolit from the 320 LBT to my copy at 330 gr. With 21.5 gr of 296 I run about 1316 fps, same load with the great Lee 310 gr. I use a standard Fed 150 primer. Mag primers will triple groups.
Sure you can kill with less velocity but I see a huge difference with a deer shot at 100 or more with longer runs then ones at under 50 yards so energy really is needed. I found a poked hole or a stopped boolit is no good. I started with 240 gr XTP's and had no blood trails at all. Deer went too far. I recovered the bullets in the deer.
Never believe the stuff about boolit size and a hole only. Even the .500 JRH sucked until I fixed the boolit. I lost deer with a WFN from my 45-70 BFR because of the wrong boolit alloy.
My learning experience continues and it is not easy or cut and dried. But you do need to disrupt innards with energy. Cave men learned a sharp stick did nothing so they made blades from rock.
900 fps??? Just a hole. This is what you want.165869 Heart blown up and no meat loss. Don't tell me a .45 kills better then a .44 because it is bigger.
I call it energy placement. Sorry, you NEED energy.

[dubber123]

Dang, after the last few days Jim and I agree on something ;) He has MUCH more handgun hunting experience than me, but in my limited experience, at 1,000fps. I got a "hole", not a caliber sized hole, (.50), but not a bunch bigger. Full penetration? Sure, not an issue there. The same meplat boolit, (smaller .475 cal) at 1,300+fps. really scrambled the innards a lot more, and resulted in game on the ground faster, feet versus yards. I'd trust Jims opinion over mine, experience and real world results beats my guesses every time.

[contender1]

In my experiences,,, accuracy first,,, as you can't kill if you can't place the shot.
Now,, in general,, I like to see if my loads are accurate starting at around 1000 fps & work up towards the 1200 fps mark. I usually find a good sweet spot in that range & stay there.
At around 1100 fps, with the proper bullet design, you will get the results shown by 44man above. And yes,,, he does have a LOT of experience.

[44man]

Accuracy is always first but the silly little gun even if a big, heavy BFR is still not a rifle with a butt stock. Yeah, I look at the gun funny and wonder why. It is hard to place a shot so you need a kill if off a little. I don't like "PLACEMENT" answers. It is important but most with handguns can't hit at 10 yards. For hunting you need accuracy to 100 or more. From bags or Creedmore I could hit a deer at 200 meters with the .44 but energy loss would mean a lost deer.
Darn you need to bust up stuff.

[paraord]

Wow, 44man thats a hole and a half! Looks like I will be alright in the velocity department and no need to tone it down in the powder charge. Those 1285's were easy to handle and am sure I could push it further with no discomfort. ESPECIALLY IF I CAN GET RESULTS LIKE THAT!

I didnt get a chance to shoot today and try those loads, but I did get a chance to melt down scrap lead to ingots, and cast for the first time ever. It went great. Not sure if I should start another thread with this question or not but most of my scrap came from large battery cell interconnects. I work in an industry that has batteries that weigh well over 2,000lbs so when one goes bad there are a mess of top post connectors to be had, each weighing around .75-1lb. Its well assumed that these are fairly pure lead. So I melted down about 50lbs of that and 10 lbs of range lead, a few wheel weights etc.

What came out was great so I decided why not try that 429244 mould, and casting also went great after it warmed up. My next question is should I have added anything to make it harder or will this be alright as is in the SBH? They scratch easily with a fingernail. These will be gas checked before loaded as well so hopefully that will take care of any leading.

[35 Whelen]

OK, I think a little perspective is in order here.

If you're hunting with an open sighted handgun, you're going to have to be realistic. How far can you hit with your handgun shooting from field positions, NOT the bench? This alone can dictate the load you use. Since my shooting range is about 200 feet east of my house, I shoot almost constantly, practicing offhand and reclined positions at 50 yds., and occasionally shoot out to 100 yds. I could probably hit a deer at 100 yds. from a seated reclined position, but 50 yds. or maybe a smidge further is where I set my limit. I know what it takes to hit a deer at these ranges and know that your average handgun aficionado that might make it to the range once or twice a month probably ain't gonna cut it shooting deer much past 25 yds. I know this first hand because I was once the guy who only shot his revolver once or twice a month and missed deer as a result.

The energy thing has been hashed, rehashed, worn out and disproven time and again. Bullet energy is a mathematical formula and simply has nothing to do with killing. If it did, we could all shoot the round nose bullet of our choice and SWC's and TNWC's (tapered nose wadcutters aka WFN's) wouldn't be needed.

Here's the sow I shot two weeks ago today. If you look closely just in front of her ear, you can see her left eye popped out of the socket. The other side was the same way. All from a little ol' .44 caliber 260 gr. SWC plodding along at less than 1000 fps.



http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/Sow%20with%20revolver_zps4mazox4v.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Hunting/Sow%20with%20revolver_zps4mazox4v.jpg.html)



This is the heart and shoulder of a buck I shot a couple of years ago with a 252 gr. SWCHP running between 950 and 1000 fps. He was around 45 yds. out and he trotted off about 25 yds. and keeled over.


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/buckshoulder-1_zpscbe93d7f.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Hunting/buckshoulder-1_zpscbe93d7f.jpg.html)


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/Buttonbuckheart-1_zps9caf9815.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Hunting/Buttonbuckheart-1_zps9caf9815.jpg.html)


If you can handle and shoot accurately a revolver shooting a heavy bullet at high velocity, and big gooey, bloody messes are what you want then go for it. But as you've already alluded, "dead is dead.". Folks come down here to Texas every fall bowling over 175 lb. whitetails with gigantic .30 caliber magnums. I don't understand it, but hey, to each his own.

35W

[kungfustyle]

Slugg the bore of the 92 and may be surprised. My 92 has a .432 bbl and I needed a different mold than my pistol.

[paraord]

35 whelen, my range is off my back porch too which is great. 50 yards and 100 yards is what I shoot mostly with everything going else, however right now my expirience with this pistol is good groups at 30 yards. I would like to be confident at 50 yards with the SBH and will be shooting very often, which is what pushed me towards reloading as well aso casting. That is a normal shot in my neck of the woods 50 yards. Don't get me wrong I'd love to be able to see a buck at 100 and say to myself "no problem".

I am shooting open sights as well.

Kungfustyle, I will slug it with one of these .431's I just cast. Hopefully I can use them but I wouldn't be surprised if I need to size differently between the 2. One can hope right?

[35 Whelen]

If you're shooting at 50 yds. you'll get it. I have two steel targets at 50 either of which replicates the vital area of a deer. The steel makes it simple; "clank" I hit it, anything else I didn't. MUCH easier than paper target and a spotting scope.

35W

[paraord]

Thats an awesome idea! Ill go scrounge around the old shop and see if I can find some steel to fit the bill. Worst case I do a little horse trading with one of my buddies with a metal shop..

So do you think that the hardness or lack there of on these will be a bad thing? I tried water quenching for half of what I cast but see no difference in their ability to withstand my fingernail.

[birddog]

When it comes to pistol velocities, accuracy still stands as king. Shoot the powder that produces the most accurate group and you are comfortable with.
Charlie

[35 Whelen]

Yep. And keep a can of black and white spray paint near the target so you can freshen it up when you want. Fact is, my 50, 100 and 200 yd. targets are all steel and all have spray paint nearby.

As far as hardness goes I don't worry too much about it. Im to the point that just fill the pot with whatever alloy or mixture is handy and shoot. My Bhn's run anywhere from 10 to 13 and I don't see any difference in performance. On those occasions when I shoot my .44 Special Blackhawk with the Elmer load (260 gr. @ 1200+ fps), I may have to Chore-Boy a little lead out every dozen shots or so, but it's no big deal.

35W

[44man]

I have lost many deer hit with a boolit too hard from my 45-70 BFR at 1630 fps. I stopped using the gun after finding deer over 200 yards with pink lungs and just a hole. Dead and all did die but we need to recover them. A hole alone is just not good enough.
I hate figures but you need energy or a sharp stick is all you need.

[GLynn41]

A question --instead of energy -- would this be maybe momentum-?
or smack? Not doubting your knowledge and experience-- I now normally use a soft nose or HP to hunt deer-- mostly because of your posts
the 12 deer and 1 280# boar I have killed has taught me some things- but always learning
I have actually taken over 100 deer but most were with a rifle...MZL and 4 with a bow
as to velocity my cut off is where the bullet reaches 1150-1200-- that is the least I want to hit with
so I start with 1350-1500 and all the handguns I hunt with have a scope

[35 Whelen]

I have lost many deer hit with a boolit too hard from my 45-70 BFR at 1630 fps. I stopped using the gun after finding deer over 200 yards with pink lungs and just a hole. Dead and all did die but we need to recover them. A hole alone is just not good enough.
I hate figures but you need energy or a sharp stick is all you need.

This is completely contrary to everything I've experienced with lung shots. I've shot animals ranging from 100 lb. deer to bull elk in the lungs with calibers from .222 Remington to 35 Whelen, and .44 Special and 45 Colt. NEVER lost one to a lung shot and never had one run over a few dozen yards.

35W

[tdoyka]

900-1100fps and either a lyman #2 250gr keith or a 1 in 40 250gr mihek hp.

[saddlebum92]

The Keith type 260 gr. swc-FB in .44 over 7.5 grains of Unique, a Skeeter Skelton /Elmer Keith original, will do the trick out to 75 yards or thereabouts on deer and pigs....if it doesn't, you ain't doin'what you think you're doin'. You dont have to full house those mags for every shot, and the more pleasant it is to send it down range, the more likely you'll send it true. Be sure though, you find the Flat Base pills.....the bevel butts ain't the best choice in this usage. Try Rimrock

[Lonegun1894]

There comes a point where you just don't get much other than recoil in exchange for the extra powder, and I don't see any deer or hog complaining about any load that does 1,000 fps+, and have taken them both with quite a bit less.

[44man]

You see fellas, my 45-70 was too fast for the alloy. The same weight range of boolits from my .45 Colt at 1160 fps works 200% better. The .44 works best at around 1300 fps. Same alloy.
I had trouble with my JRH until I softened half the nose, boolit too heavy at 440 gr. They just zip through. Now they slam deer to the ground so fast recoil is not over.
Your boolit must do some work but I went too soft once with the 45-70 and destroyed half a deer.
The half soft nose on the JRH turned into the worst grinder I have so you need care.
I am not kidding, look at this.166144 I was leading a moving doe and she stopped as the trigger broke, hit bone. Also ruined the neck on exit. All the white is exploded bone chips.

[paraord]

Well I have to say there is some great posts on this thread and I appreciate all of them. And the actual wounds are impressive! I did some more load testing finally this evening and went right for the paperwork. 17.9 grains of AA#9 seems to be the ticket out of what I had loaded (17.0, 17.3, 17.6, 17.9). That shot the smallest group at 30 yards for me anyways, and really was pleasant to shoot. Not sure what that will chrono but Id guess low to mid 1300's. Ill load up some more tonight and chrono them at some point.


Now its on to lots of shooting practice! Thanks again guys!

[sixshot]

You don't need 1" accuracy to kill deer, we're not hunting grasshoppers! a deer is a pretty good size target & decent velocity & accuracy will get you there. Also for most hunting you don't need top end velocity unless you can handle the recoil, some can & some can't. Hitting the vitals is #1. Instead of shooting a load thats too hot for you to handle accuractely just down load a bit & then adjust your alloy to compensate for the slower speed, makes no sense to shoot an uncomfortable load & wound a deer just because someone else is shooting that load.
Shoot what works for you & adjust your alloy, I guarantee it will work best for you.

Dick

[dubber123]

To roughly quote you; "Best groups and very pleasant to shoot". Sounds like a winner to me. Show us game pics when you get them :)

[sixshot]

Here's a few but I'm baby sitting a brisket I just started so it will be over a period of time.

Bull elk, taken in the mid 70's with the Ruger flat top in the shoulder rig, either my Lawrence or an Idaho Leather rig, can't remember. Shot was about 50 yds in heavy timeber in with the Keith 250 gr. cast with 21 grs. of old 2400, one shot. One of my biggest bulls with a sixgun.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/022_22.jpg (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/6shot_01/media/022_22.jpg.html)

Cow elk taken with my Bisley 41 magnum using a 250 gr. LBT & 9.2 grs. of Unique running just over 1100 fps. Shot was 74 yds, broke both front shoulder & exited, she never took a step. Shoulder rig is the Barranti Northwest Hunter.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_2228-1.jpg (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/6shot_01/media/100_2228-1.jpg.html)

Montana white tail doe taken with my Bisley 41 magnum & a 230 gr. Keith with 17 grs. of 2400, running shot, distance will remain a secret but one shot & she tumbled for 10 yds. Had to float her across the Beaverhead River in very cold water! Same Barranti shoulder rig.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_1686-3.jpg (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/6shot_01/media/100_1686-3.jpg.html)

Dick

[44man]

Yes, velocity is not the answer, it is boolit construction to work at your favorite load. I don't care if you shoot 900 fps or 1900 fps, each needs different. So do smaller calibers compared to large.
Those that buy factory still need to buy the right bullet for the game but the spread has improved from years of work by factories.
Don't look for soft, fast expanding HP"s in the .44. They STOP. Yes they can kill fast or be a loss just as fast. I have killed most of my revolver deer with the .44 and seen what everything does. Over 180 of them total with revolvers. How about a 330 gr 22 BHN, WLN at near 80 yards, neck shot.166424 Do you really want a HP? Do you want over 1400 fps?

[sixshot]

Not trying to say that my way is right & some one else's way is wrong, I'm just saying this is the way I've always done it. We all do what works for us & we stay with it. But when I see on page one where someone says they have lost many deer a red flag come up. When that happens either you made a bad shot or you used a bad bullet, there's no other answer.
Here's the photo of a the lungs from a buck I shot a few years back with my Ruger 357 Maximum with a 180 gr. cast slug at 94 yds. I was kneeling & using iron sights & the buck was standing broadside. The slug took out both lungs & the buck backed up 3-4 steps & dropped. You can see the damage to the lungs. I have lots & lots of these photo's but again, I've always said I shoot cast slugs as soft as I can & still get accuracy, not bullseye accuracy but hunting accuracy & its worked for over 50 years, I've never lost one! Not a deer, elk, antelope, bear, moose, etc.http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_0999-4.jpg (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/6shot_01/media/100_0999-4.jpg.html)

Dick

[44man]

Not trying to say that my way is right & some one else's way is wrong, I'm just saying this is the way I've always done it. We all do what works for us & we stay with it. But when I see on page one where someone says they have lost many deer a red flag come up. When that happens either you made a bad shot or you used a bad bullet, there's no other answer.
Here's the photo of a the lungs from a buck I shot a few years back with my Ruger 357 Maximum with a 180 gr. cast slug at 94 yds. I was kneeling & using iron sights & the buck was standing broadside. The slug took out both lungs & the buck backed up 3-4 steps & dropped. You can see the damage to the lungs. I have lots & lots of these photo's but again, I've always said I shoot cast slugs as soft as I can & still get accuracy, not bullseye accuracy but hunting accuracy & its worked for over 50 years, I've never lost one! Not a deer, elk, antelope, bear, moose, etc.http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_0999-4.jpg (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/6shot_01/media/100_0999-4.jpg.html)

Dick
Close to a loss. Look at a heart shot .166439 You were lucky is all. The lungs on deer that went 200 yards with the wrong boolit in the 45-70 looked like yours. Just a hole.

[35 Whelen]

Here's a few but I'm baby sitting a brisket I just started so it will be over a period of time.

Bull elk, taken in the mid 70's with the Ruger flat top in the shoulder rig, either my Lawrence or an Idaho Leather rig, can't remember. Shot was about 50 yds in heavy timeber in with the Keith 250 gr. cast with 21 grs. of old 2400, one shot. One of my biggest bulls with a sixgun.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/022_22.jpg (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/6shot_01/media/022_22.jpg.html)

Cow elk taken with my Bisley 41 magnum using a 250 gr. LBT & 9.2 grs. of Unique running just over 1100 fps. Shot was 74 yds, broke both front shoulder & exited, she never took a step. Shoulder rig is the Barranti Northwest Hunter.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_2228-1.jpg (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/6shot_01/media/100_2228-1.jpg.html)

Montana white tail doe taken with my Bisley 41 magnum & a 230 gr. Keith with 17 grs. of 2400, running shot, distance will remain a secret but one shot & she tumbled for 10 yds. Had to float her across the Beaverhead River in very cold water! Same Barranti shoulder rig.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_1686-3.jpg (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/6shot_01/media/100_1686-3.jpg.html)

Dick

Thanks for the pictures, Dick.

I totally agree with you, someone losing many deer or lung shot deer running along ways raises many questions in my mind. Lung shots are always my first choice and I've never had anything shot through the lungs go very far, if anywhere at all. When I was a kid, my Dad hunted with .222's and .222 Magnums and just routinely shot them in the lungs after which they might bounce off for a few yards and keel over.

This is the first head of big game I shot with a revolver and a cast bullet (RCBS 44-250, 260 gr. @ 935 fps MV). One shot through both lungs and she made it about 30 yds. and fell over.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/Doewithpistol1_zpsf93523e6.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Hunting/Doewithpistol1_zpsf93523e6.jpg.html)

My oldest daughter and I together have killed 8 or 10 whitetails at ranges from 30 to almost 100 yds. with a .30 caliber, 182 gr. HP loafing along at 1850 MV. All lung shots, all dead deer. I killed this little feller behind the house several years ago with said load. Not an enormous amount of damage, but like all the rest, he gave it up after a few yards.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/BuckScout.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Hunting/BuckScout.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/Bulletdamageribcage.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Hunting/Bulletdamageribcage.jpg.html)

Yes, "just a hole" through the lungs, but as always, that's all it takes.

35W

[sixshot]

Guess I've just been lucky for 50 years, but again I'm saying there's more than one way to get there. You don't have to shoot really hard bullets at top end velocities to kill deer, or for that matter elk, bear, antelope, hogs, mountain lion or other big game, I've done it with slower loads & softer bullets & done it lots of times in many states including Alaska & Africa.
I see where some claim they favor neck shots & I know it can work great but it can come with great consequence. The old saying that "its either a clean kill or a clean miss" is a myth. But again some love it & it can work very well if all goes well.
Here's another photo of the lungs from a cow elk I shot at 168 yds with an OM Ruger 45 Colt using the 260 gr. Keith & 22.5 grs. of H110. My buddy was shooting her with the range finder as I set up on my shooting stick, when she turned broadside in the snow I hit her through both lungs, she ran about 15 yds down hill & dropped.....guess I was just lucky, even with iron sights. Blood was everywhere in the snow, Stevie Wonder could have tracked her in 10 seconds.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_2230.jpg (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/6shot_01/media/100_2230.jpg.html)
I've shown this elk many times but can do it again if I need to.

Dick

[white eagle]

lots of god advice here fellas and gals
handgun hunting is just a blast and a hoot
brings back the challenge for me at least
thanks for the advice fellas I will keep on reading it

[44man]

Dick, that is decent destruction, your boolit worked fine.
When I started with the .44 I used 240 XTP's and 3 deer went over 60 yards but I was in a spot I could see them fall. I back track every deer I shoot and found no blood on the ground. I recovered all 3 bullets against the rib cages. Perfect mushrooms and good damage and if I was in my normal thick places I might have lost some.
I changed to the 320 gr LBT, deer never make more then 30 yards with huge blood trails.
The Lee 310 is a super boolit too. I would imagine the RD 265 would be as good.
Being cheap, I made my own mold, copy of the WLN, came out at 330 gr, nothing stands up to it!
I made the ogive as close to my 11° forcing cone as I could and it is more accurate then any other boolit.
I just like heavy boolits!

[paraord]

Sixshot, I purposely didnt say what my 30 yard group was figuring it wasnt good enough to say so with my to this point low level of shooting with this gun. It was completely in the "minute of deer" figures at 30 yards but surely no 1 or 2 inches. I know I need to get serious with practice before November and put some lead downrange.

Bowhunting is something I have done for many years, and my aimpoint has always been high-mid lung enough to clip them both depending on the downward angle. This way you have massive hemorrhaging, 2 collapsed lungs, or worst case you have 2 lungs that will fill with blood and cease to function properly and the animal will expire (this is if for some reason the entry/exit wound plugs). This is apples to oranges but I figured Id add in something with everyone talking about lungs.

44man, that heart is half gone! Jeepers you dropped a grenade in the pumphouse. Did that deer even know is was dead? Heart shots are always incredibility devastating and make for light track work if any. Do you ground hunt or stand? Just curious because I normally stand hunt and judging that heart location vs shooting line can be tricky for me when 20 feet up. I hope to build a hunting shack or 2 this summer and get them in for the upcoming season. 1 overlooking my corn field/alfalfa field cut through and 1 in the hardwoods on top of a little knoll that gets heavy traffic and max shot is about 65 yards.

Yesterday was a beautiful day, when my kiddo was down for a nap instead of continuing to disc the corn fields I ended up casting another 150 of these 429244, and about 100 of the 429421. So I will have a Ray Thompson, and an Elmer Keith to play with. And I had the missus pick me up a box of that chore-boy copper scouring pad because I have a feeling I will need some soon.

Cant wait to continue to update how the load progress goes.

[44MAG#1]

Sixshot, what BHN do you try to "shoot" for when casting your non- hollow point cast bullets for hunting?
What is your favorite alloy that you choose if you don't mind answering.
Also what velocity level do you try to attain in the 44 Specials and the 44 Mag?
If you do mind giving out this information I understand.

[44man]

The .44 is amazing. I have opened deer that lungs poured out, no pink at all left. Just a flood. I fully believe in two holes with lungs busted to mush.
For the .44 and .475 I use 22 BHN, water dropped WW lead. Only the 2 guns work with hard. But my .45 Colt Vaquero also does good with hard 335 gr LBT's or the Lyman 320 gr.
The Ruger Old Army with 41 gr of Swiss FFFG and a round ball at a little over 1100 fps is a deer buster too.
I have dropped over 200 deer with a .45 flinter and round balls in Ohio and PA. How I love pure lead but to get it to work in a revolver is a pipe dream.
The .44 does not need soft HP's or "energy dump" a myth of the worst order. Just make the boolit work in passage and get 2 holes.
Every problem I had was a bullet that stopped or acted like a sharp stick. A field point on an arrow!
I have between 220 to 250 archery kills and only a heavy arrow and large head that goes through kills best. Not velocity. I have found three arrows 6" long pieces healed in deer I shot in gun season. I am afraid to reach in the lung cavity to this day. Nothing worse then a broad head for fingers! Poor archery practices with speed and light arrows is like the wrong boolits.
A deer was shot with a growth in the chest-PA Game News. It turned out the deer ran into a burned branch that went all the way through the heart and healed. Deer are EASY to kill, just need a hole. I am NOT in that camp.

[sixshot]

I agree on the 44 magnum, its my favorite although I've used several others including the 41 magnum which is my second favorite & the 45 Colt, the 357 Maximum & the wonderful 480. Like you I prefer heavy bullets & 2 holes, it always makes it easier. Out here in the west its always spot & stalk although I have shot a few Montana white tails by sitting on little funnel areas.
I've never cared for light & fast bullets, almost always I've run my loads between 1100-1200 fps although in my early years quite a few head of game seen 1300+ fps. What I found was my shooting was better at more reasonable velocities & the game was just as dead at 1150 fps as it was as 1300+ & I was still getting complete penetration & the game was dropping in sight. I've shot a few muley's length ways with the 44 & the 250 keith so why punish me & the gun with more velocity which means more recoil? I'm killing them & I don't like blood shot meat.
Even my bull moose, shot offhand with my Ruger 480 at 45 yds was a one shot kill, complete penetration & the 370 gr. slug was only going a shade over 1000 fps.
A few years later my Dentist used another of my 480's to kill his bull moose with one shot going just a bit faster, maybe 1100 fps & he was dead in 5-6 seconds & we watched him go down. Another friend took his bull moose on the same water hole as my Denist with a Ruger 41 Magnum & a 230 gr. cast slug at about 65 yds as he faced us. Again a one shot kill with the slug hitting him at the bast of the throat, passing into the chest, hitting the heart & one lung, going into the intestines where we never could find it but it had to penetrate 4 feet. His load was going about 1250 fps.
You mention you've taken around 250 deer with the bow, another 180 with the revolver & over 200 with the flint lock, if you've taken any with anything else thats somewhere around 700 deer. If you've hunted 50 years thats about 14 deer a year, you must love venison. Thats something we can't do here in the west, multiple tags are hard to come by so we have to hunt other states. The trade off is public land & we can hunt bear, elk, moose, antelope, lion, deer, both muley & white tail, Big Horn sheep & Mountain Goats plus Utah fishermen..... just joking!
Anyway, you've taken an impressive number of deer & I'm liking the heavier bullets more & more.
My alloy has almost always been 70/30, that is 70 % WW alloy & 30% lead & I try to run them around 1000-1150 fps, its worked for me for 50 years. I get great hunting accuracy in my guns, always get an exit & I've yet to lose an animal, not here or in Arizona, Utah, Texas, Wyoming, Montana, Alaska or Africa. But, if you go up in velocity you will have to go up in bullet hardness. One last thing, I have taken a very few animals with HP's, maybe 6-7, all deer & all pass throughs. And as I've stated before if you want the very finest cast bullet use a softnose cast, pure lead up front, how much is up to you & water quench the back part.
My best of 6 black bears, this is a 6 1/2" Cinnamon phase bear, I think about 55-60 yds, spot & stalk with my Ruger 10 1/2" 44 maggie & the great 250 gr. Keith, one shot at about 1250 fps, complete penetration as always.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_1398-4.jpg (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/6shot_01/media/100_1398-4.jpg.html)
My bull moose with the Ruger 480 & a 370 gr. softnose cast. I hunted 27 days & saw 37 moose. Offhand, 45 yds, one shot & complete penetration, he was down & out in about 10 seconds.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/moose-1.jpg (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/6shot_01/media/moose-1.jpg.html)
Wyoming Muley buck, I was walking down a game trail & caught him drinking from a small stream, I dropped to both knees using my Bisley 41 maggie & hit him center chest as he faced me at, as near as I could step off 88 yds. Bullet was a 230 gr. cast that I have used for years. I was carrying my long Barranti chest rig because I was switching guns every other day. Bullet exited about 3 ribs back on the right side.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_1623-4.jpg (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/6shot_01/media/100_1623-4.jpg.html)
44Man, you should like the sweatshirt, its Ohio State Buckeyes, my oldest brother was recruited there by Woody Hayes back in 1957 when we lived in New Boston, Ohio.
This is my cow elk at 168 yds with my OM Brassie 45 Colt using the great 260 gr. Keith loaded with 22.5 grs. of H110, don't remember the velocity but at 168 yds it had slowed a bit! My buddy shot her with the range finder just before me & Elmer shot her! Complete penetration, she ran maybe 15 yds & you can see the blood on the snow.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_1054-7.jpg (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/6shot_01/media/100_1054-7.jpg.html)



Dick

[44man]

Been deer hunting about 58 years and really lost count long ago. I hunted 3 states back when I lived in Ohio. Most of the deer were on orchards and farms with unlimited tags for damage control. Most meat was donated for the poor. I only keep 2 for myself. I could not hunt deer with a revolver then and the year I moved Ohio made it legal.
Now a good year is 7 but the amount of doe we can now shoot has gone down. I give the property ladies 2 deer apiece each season.
The farms up above have many deer shot all year and dumped so it gets harder to find them. My worst season was the last with only 2 kills. I only gave 1 away. The ladies love venison so much they come and help butcher. They bring paper and tape too.
There was a pig farm nearby that they shot over 200 a year and dumped in a gully instead of letting hunters in. To give meat to the poor now, you need to pay for processing so they just dump the meat.
The worst I seen was in PA. They gut shoot deer so they run into the woods so they don't have to drag them out of fields and during season, they can't find any. I know a guy that chuck hunts in PA and if a deer comes out, he gut shoots them but complains about deer season when he does not see any.

[sixshot]

Impressive numbers & fine shooting! Wasting game seems to happen everywhere. Slob hunters are usually the one's sighting in the day before the season opens.

Dick

[44man]

Being a hunter does not mean to kill everything you see. I darn near hand feed deer in my yard. Me and my dog can be 10' from deer as I toss apples or corn. My woods is full of deer paths but the deer that are feet from me in the yard are in my woods. I stopped hunting my woods.
Like the tree rats at the bird feeders. Carol hates them but has a wonder of how they get seeds. Let them be.
I think a true hunter has more love of nature and animals and I have gotten softer with age.

[paraord]

Being a hunter does not mean to kill everything you see......
I think a true hunter has more love of nature and animals and I have gotten softer with age.

I couldn't agree more. Hunting is not just about killing, and people who need that explained wont understand it anyways.

Hearing people purposely gut shooting deer just to get rid of them is awful.

[44man]

When I started and seen a guy with a deer, it hurt and I was jealous. All of you know the feeling. But as I learned and seen the feelings from others, I understood so I gave deer away many times. I bet some will never forget me. I feel real good.

[tdoyka]

Been deer hunting about 58 years and really lost count long ago. I hunted 3 states back when I lived in Ohio. Most of the deer were on orchards and farms with unlimited tags for damage control. Most meat was donated for the poor. I only keep 2 for myself. I could not hunt deer with a revolver then and the year I moved Ohio made it legal.
Now a good year is 7 but the amount of doe we can now shoot has gone down. I give the property ladies 2 deer apiece each season.
The farms up above have many deer shot all year and dumped so it gets harder to find them. My worst season was the last with only 2 kills. I only gave 1 away. The ladies love venison so much they come and help butcher. They bring paper and tape too.
There was a pig farm nearby that they shot over 200 a year and dumped in a gully instead of letting hunters in. To give meat to the poor now, you need to pay for processing so they just dump the meat.
The worst I seen was in PA. They gut shoot deer so they run into the woods so they don't have to drag them out of fields and during season, they can't find any. I know a guy that chuck hunts in PA and if a deer comes out, he gut shoots them but complains about deer season when he does not see any.

i know of a few farms that do it in PA too.:sad: