Leather Wood Hi-Lux 3/4 in Malcolm Telescopic 17" Short 3x

[IcerUSA]

Anyone have some experiance with these scopes ? The reason I'm asking is I ordered my H&R Buffalo Classic today and need a scope for these aging eyes I have . :)

Keith

[Oneshot]

I have one on a .22 and it works just fine. Don't know how it would work one a larger caliber. It is real clear and crisp black cross hairs. I has one limitation and that is in the rear adjustment it is the Lyman/Unertl and is somewhat limited. therefore you may have to raise the height of the base to get on taget at longer distances

Overall I really like it. The 22 is on at 100 yard and there is berely enough adjustment to make it. Only have about 1/4" of adjustment left.

[Doc Highwall]

If you go to the leatherwood web site you will see that they make a set of bases for the H&R. I have one of these scopes and I want to mount it on a 1885 Lowwall in 357mag.

[IcerUSA]

Well , I did it , Natchez's May/June flier has both the long and short scopes on sale and being anal about having to have work done on the new rifle I opted for the long scope . Had to go to Optical Planit to get the base and extension tube so sometime next week I should have a scope on the Buffalo Classic . :)

Keith

[nitroproof]

I have one on my Whitney Rolling Block Sporting Rifle cal. 38/55. Have had it since mid-summer last year.
Loads of fun. Had a problem with the scope moving in the front mount until I put a bit of masking tape under the ring.
The mounts are rather primitive compared to the later target scopes but during a visit to the NRA's National Firearms Museaum (Fairfax, VA) I saw a Winchester Hi Wall with an early scope in identical mounts. The thimbles have no clicks so adjustment is by counting turns, but easy to figure out by trial and error.
The scope make a fun companion to an early style rifle, no Schuetzen class setup by any means but great for the price and intended purpose.
Would like the 6x version they are planning to introduce later this year.

See Post: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=21097&highlight=whitney+malcolm

[IcerUSA]

6X short scope ? The long one is 6x and I won't be getting the better rear adjustible mount this year tho . Read that the rear mount that comes with the scope is good for about 300 yds .
I just hope it works out well for me . :)


Keith

PS Nice looking set up there .

[nitroproof]

I subscribe to the Single Shot Exchange magazine, Leatherwood/Malcolm has the back cover. They state a 17" 6X is in the works. Playing with the block heights with shim stock can get you where you need to be for elevation.

[Doc Highwall]

I am not sure of the thread pitch on my malcolm scope but it sure looks like a 40 thread pitch. Now just a little math. My Lyman Super Targetspot has a 40 thread pitch, 1 divided by 40 = .025" thousands per revolution. That means that for each full turn on the adjustment knob the rear of the scope will move .025" thousands. Now because the knob on the lyman is divided into 50 increments, we have to divide .025" by 50 =.0005" per click. So now that we know that each click of a Lyman scope moves it .0005" per click we have to figure out how this affects bullet movement is at lets say 100yds. This works just like a lever and fulcrum. Suppose we want each click to move the bullet impact .250" at 100yds. .250" divided by .0005" = 500, now there are 3600" in a 100yds, 3600" divided by 500 = 7.2" This is how far your front and rear blocks have to be spaced so each click will move the bullet .250" at 100yds. Now back to the Malcolm Scope, it has 8 marks per revolution. .025" divided by 8 = .003125" per mark. So with your mounting blocks at a 7.2" spacing it is a ratio of 1 to 500 on the movement of the scope to the bullet impact. Lets do the math on the Malcolm Scope with it set up with a 7.2" mount spacing. 1 / 40 = .025" per revolution divided by 8, .025" / 8 = .003125" x 500 = 1.5625" bullet movement at 100yds per increment on the Malcolm Scope. I hope this helps everyone, if you would like I could write another one on iron sights like Redfield and Warner etc. than this could be made a sticky if you want, Doc Highwall.

[IcerUSA]

I was thinking the 17 inch scope had alot of cool factor to it for the BC , then while doing all the searching for info it showed that I would have to modify the the rifle to acomadate the front base which I prefer not to do .

Even with all the research on the Malcolm scope that I did there is really not much info out there that I could find for setting one up , so by gursstiment I came up with the 5" extension for the front of the scope as it looked like the 7"er would be too long , just a WAG but should be close . :)

Playing with a couple differant loads ( 1 for trapdoor and 1 for lever gun ) it seems that the rifle likes the lever gun loads better with the trapdoor load doing about 6" groups at 50yds and the lever load doing about 3" inch groups at same . These loads being start loads for the boolit I'm wanting to use in this rifle , more load work and cronie work needed .

Hopeing the scope will help as these old eyes just don't focus like they used to .

More to come as things develope .

Keith

[Doc Highwall]

Yes I know what you mean about altering a rifle. Maybe some thing like a scope ring, mounted upside down all the way down towards the fore end with the normal attaching part milled off flat and then a regular scope block ( posa mounts) could be screwed to it. I have been thinking of doing some thing like this for some of my guns.

[Doc Highwall]

I just finished looking in my CHAMPIONS CHOICE catalog www.champchoice.com and for the band item # CC812S might work. It is made for a barrel that measures .812" in Diameter. The posa base I mention would be PA175 that would have to be screwed to the one inch scope ring mounted upside down like I mentioned before. The hard part is I do not know the diameter of your barrel just in front of the forend.

[nitroproof]

Doc Highwall,
Thanks for the explanation of the adjusment. My mounts are at 8.0" center to center. I've only shot it a 100 yds to date but plan to give the 200 & 300 yard targets a try.
According to your numbers my slightly longer "sight radius" should give each 1/8 knob turn a bit less that 1.5"... will print out your post and plug into an Excel Spreadsheet for the actual number.

[nitroproof]

With 8" scope block spacing the ratio is 1:450. 1/8 turn give 1.4" change of impact at 100 yards, one full turn is 11.25".
Handy to know!
Now I got to lube and load those cast boolits :-D

[Doc Highwall]

Well we know that 1/8 turn on the malcolm scope ( assuming a 40 thd pitch ) moves the rear of the scope .003125". Now just figure the ratio to multiply by. 100yds = 3600" / 8" = 450 x .003125" = 1.40625" at 100yds. 2.8125" at 200yds and, 4.21875" at 300yds. With a Redfield or Warner sight on your gun you can also do the same thing. These have a 40 thread pitch or .025" per revolution, except they only have 12 clicks per revolution = .025"/12 = .002083333" movement per click. Now if you want 1/4" movement per click divide .250" by .00208333" = 120 or a ratio of 1:120. Now 3600" at 100yds divided by 120 = 30", this is how far the front and rear apertures have to be for .250" per click. Now 1/4 minuet of angle is a little different. This is how I do it, get your calculator out. 2 x pi x Rad divided by (360 Deg x 60min per deg. ) = 1 minuet of angle at that radius. Now lets do this at 100yds. 2 x 3.141592654 x 3600" / (360 x 60 = 21600 ) = 1.047197551" or 1 minuet of angle at 100yds, dividing this by 4 = .261799388" for 1/4 min of angle at 100 yds. Now divide .261799388" by the click value .00208333" =125.6639072 ratio. Now divide 3600" by 125.6639072 = 28.64784392" this is how far the front and rear apertures have to be. I hope this has helped and I don't sound anal, but when you have only a 2-300yd range to shoot at like a lot of people, and you want to shoot at 600-1000yds you will need to apply math like this in order to adjust your sights. Doc Highwall

[IcerUSA]

Well I got the scope today and the base for the BC came in the mail today also .

Got it mounted and it looks good , only problem is the base for the BC didn't come with screws , I put the 2 screws in it from the Williams base but will have to pick up some screws that fit a little better , the long screw out of the Williams is about what I will need and I'll need 3 of them .

All in all it does give it a classic look and there seams to be more than enough eye relief. With the rear mount all the way up it looks to be about 3 to 4 degrees of elevation so should be more than good enough for the 200 yd. range at the gun club .

Now to get some loads loaded and get it sighted in this coming week end .

Keith

PS Will post some pics in a day or so , too late tonight , got to get up early .

[IcerUSA]

OK here are the pic's , scope does have alot of cool factor I think . :)
7640
Rear mount .
7641
Front mount .
7642

Keith

[nitroproof]

:rolleyes: Wait a minute fella... that's the LONG version!
Should be good to 1000 yards or so.

I 'm planning to hit the range Saturday AM if the weather cooperates, calling 70% chance of T-Storms :cry:

[IcerUSA]

For the price I couldn't pass it up and I really didn't want to have to drill and tap the barrel for the short scope.
Going to load up some rounds and take it to the range Saturday and sight it in . :)

Keith

[Southern Son]

Icer, I am not a big fan of the H&R, they just don't look rigt, it's a personal thing, but with that long scope, it looks gooooood. You will have to let us know how it goes on the range.

[nitroproof]

Made it to the range today, previousely had only shot 100 yards. Set the target out at 200 and cranked the turret up one full turn, still low. Worked out to take approximately 1 1/2 revolution to get on the target at 200.
Put a tall target backing at 100 yds, the boolits were hitting 17" above P.O.A.

Shooting Lee .379-250 boolits "as cast" over 15.8 grains of SR 4759.
Will have to try to reach the 300 yard target bank next time.

[IcerUSA]

Well the range report sucks , seams that the front mount that comes with the scope is way too short for the H&R BC as it was shooting anywhere from 6 to 18 inches high at 50 and 100 yds. with everything I had loaded , loads of Unique , Blue Dot , SR 4759 , 3031 , Varget , and a couple different ones with 5744 .
Might be close to the bullseye at 200 yds. .
Not a happy camper at this moment , will give Hi-Lux a call to see if they have a fix for the problem or it sure was a waste of over $300.00 for what I got .

Keith

[pietro]

[Have had it since mid-summer last year. Had a problem with the scope moving in the front mount until I put a bit of masking tape under the ring.]

It's a good thing IcerUSA used good, hard made-in-USA Williams screws in his mount, since the early Chinese mounts used soft screws - and any base that is a little harder will chew the screws & allow the mount to move forward.

There's more details on this scope, and that particular issue, in the new Rifle Magazine - in Mike Venturino's article on Old Men & Sniping Rifles, where he mounted one on a 1903 Springfield -06.

[nitroproof]

I used the masking tape on my front ring (17" version) AND replaced the soft Chinese screw on same. REALLY like mine now. Will look for the Rifle Magazine.

[IcerUSA]

Well I odered some screws from Brownells as the things that came with the scope suck , got a nice cresent mark in my forehead now .
Does a 2 cent screw verses a 6 cent screw really make that much more profit on these scopes ?
Does all their other scopes come with the cheap chineze crap also ?
One of the screws that holds the rear site elevation to the windage block striped and the other one came loose and then the scope whopped me a good one .
The new front ring got me on the same peice of paper tho , thats the only good news so far.
Will give Hi-Lux a call and let them know that I'm not very pleased with their crap tomarrow and that I won't be recomending their scopes to anyone that askes about mine when they ask.
Vent off for now .

Keith

[nitroproof]

Last Saturday I shot the 38/55 Malcolm scoped Whitney roller out 200 yds. Today I tired the 300 yd target bank. It took 1 1/2 turns to bring the bullet impact to the bull, that works out to a tad over 4' of bullet drop between 200 and 300 yards. The 300 yard bank is the longest my club has so I'm good with that.
I was shooting hastily assembled loads so no bragging on the group, lets just say if it were a 12" diameter gong it would have rung with consistancy.

Now to work on load development the rest of the summer.