Lyman M dies....questions

[Smokepole50]

A recently purchased Enfield No.2 Mk1* tanker pistol in 38 S&W has put me back on the path of casting and I have a couple questions concerning Lyman M dies.

In the past when I was working with the 8x58RD cartridge I used a Lee die to flare the case mouth before seating the as cast .326 bullet for the over sized 8x58RD barrel. At the time I could not help but think the gas check end of the boolit was being compressed by the brass when I seated the bullet in a case that was FL resized by a standard reloading die.

By the design of the Lyman M dies as I understand it, it expands (sizes) the neck in a more controlled way as well as flaring the case mouth in one step. This type of neck sizing is desirable over the standard pull thru button supplied with most standard dies due to run out and neck lengthening issues.

My question is, would a Lyman M die of say .324 be a good way to size the full neck length thus reducing undue compression and deformation of the boolits base when seating. I realize this might not be as much of a problem with GC boolits but in looking for a proper .361-.363 PB boolit for the 38 S&W I was concerned about swaging down the bullet when seating it in the case. These 200gr boolits will be fairly soft when cast and I think they will be even more likely to squeeze down a couple tho when seated in the case that has been sized to .358

Maybe this is not an issue with softer alloys as any reduction in size will be somewhat bumped up when the cartridge is fired. Or perhaps a full bore diameter bullet such as the 200 gr bullet designed for this cartridge application might seal the bore just fine even with a slightly smaller base.

I realize the cartridge chamber will determine how much the case neck can be expanded without turning the O.D. of the case neck. Do any of you guys used over sized neck expanders to lessen boolit base swaging by the case???

Is this splitting frog hairs or a real concern for accuracy???

Thanks, Smokepole50

[243winxb]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/270092/rcbs-cowboy-expander-assembly-38-s-and-w-361-diameter RCBS Cowboy Expander Assembly 38 S&W (361 Diameter)

[OS OK]

This is worth a read concerning the M die… http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/39 …it has given me a different perspective as I prepare to load PD'd boolits in the 8mm variety.

charlie

[Wayne Smith]

Both the RCBS expander button and the Lyman M die will accomplish what you want. You will want the Lyman short die body for the S&W, the long body if you get one for the 8mm. Yes, it is a real concern and it also assists in the straight seating of the boolit. Well worth the investment.

[Smokepole50]

Thanks for the input and links guys.....

Does Lyman make custom expanders for their M dies? The case neck length stepped expander described in the above link sounds like the ticket for minimum case neck run out after the expansion step. Does anyone make these that will work with the Lyman M die?

Thanks, Smokepole50

[OS OK]

Thanks for the input and links guys.....

Does Lyman make custom expanders for their M dies? The case neck length stepped expander described in the above link sounds like the ticket for minimum case neck run out after the expansion step. Does anyone make these that will work with the Lyman M die?


Thanks, Smokepole50

I've been searching till my eyes bleed and haven't found a link to anyone offering it for sale as an 'M' die modification, otherwise I'd have one on order along with an M die and have a link for you.
Also have PM'd someone to get some dimensions on that mandrel in the M die…I don't see how it can seat a j-type or a cast and have the neck tension correct for the j-type without swaging our 'oversized' cast boolits down.
I have a friend with a lathe…I may have to lean on him for a custom 'cast size' mandrel, I taught him to load/cast a couple years back and he always tries to help me when I need it, it's just that he doesn't have a great deal of spare time being still in business for himself. Us old retired fellas really have it good for having so much spare time to goof around.

OS OK

[243winxb]

The RCBS Cowboy die sets are made for cast bullets. May not produce enough neck tension for 357 magnum loads. Mostly for light, target loads.

[Tom W.]

The last RCBS dies I bought came with an "m" die. I was surprised, and now want one for my other handgun dies.

[SSGOldfart]

This is worth a read concerning the M die… http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/39 …it has given me a different perspective as I prepare to load PD'd boolits in the 8mm variety.

charlie
At Beartooth site you can get lost for days reading.lots And lots of good information

[Motor]

Thanks for the input and links guys.....

Does Lyman make custom expanders for their M dies? The case neck length stepped expander described in the above link sounds like the ticket for minimum case neck run out after the expansion step. Does anyone make these that will work with the Lyman M die?

Thanks, Smokepole50

I believe there is a member here that makes them to fit Lee equipment. I'm sure he can make them for the Lyman.

I don't recall the name at this time. I'm sure it will come up. You can look through the other threads as well.

I don't think neck tension has the strength to swage down a gas check installed on to a boolit but I also don't know how much the brass will spring back after the check passes by.

I use both the Lyman "M" die and a RCBS neck expander. I still leave the expander ball in my size die though. The "M" or RCBS expander is a little larger to "expand" the neck a little more for the oversize lead boolit.

The difference is the "M" die creates a short straight-wall expansion at the case mouth while the RCBS puts the more conventional bell shape flare on the mouth.

Motor

[dagunnut]

NOE bullet molds makes custom expanders to fit the Lee cast bullet flaring tool. You can get pretty much what ever size that you need.

[Taterhead]

The last RCBS dies I bought came with an "m" die. I was surprised, and now want one for my other handgun dies.

I had the same experience. Bought a new pistol die set and noticed the M expander. I found it to be superior. I contacted RCBS about how to buy retrofits for my older sets. They just mailed me the ones I needed for no charge. Fantastic service at RCBS.

[Smokepole50]

Thanks for all the input guys, I will see what NOE has to offer.

[Wayne Smith]

Buckshot is the guy who will make custom sizers, including M-type.

[Tom W.]

I had the same experience. Bought a new pistol die set and noticed the M expander. I found it to be superior. I contacted RCBS about how to buy retrofits for my older sets. They just mailed me the ones I needed for no charge. Fantastic service at RCBS.
Thanks for the heads up. I have several RCBS handgun dies.

[kiwi]

All Lyman pistol die sets come with M dies I have a few they are good quality the newer manufactured dies are better than a few years ago,
and buckshot will make the expander plugs what ever size required I have bought some of his stuff and it is top notch

[Le Loup Solitaire]

If you can get into the series of The ABC's of Handloading by Dean Grennell, he wrote a whole chapter in one of the books on how to make your own expander spuds that are all interchangeable on the Lyman M dies. He shows you how to make any size or shape spud using Loctite, standard size threaded rod and a box to hold them all. LLS

[HangFireW8]

Buckshot is the guy who will make custom sizers, including M-type.

Buckshot happily retired from that business. Too bad for us, I have some of his stuff and it's good stuff.

Check out Lathesmith or Ammohead.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Just got an NOE "M-die" type expander plug that fits the Lee universal flaring die sized for .38 Spl/.357 Mag, it is very well made and plenty long for deep seating if needs be. Pretty fair price too.

[Taterhead]

I ordered some of the NOE expanders. 2 for 308s and one for 8mm. Should be here today or tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up about that product. Great prices! I went ahead and got a nice looking 4 pound ingot mold while I was there.

[trooperdan]

If you can get into the series of The ABC's of Handloading by Dean Grennell, he wrote a whole chapter in one of the books on how to make your own expander spuds that are all interchangeable on the Lyman M dies. He shows you how to make any size or shape spud using Loctite, standard size threaded rod and a box to hold them all. LLS

Do you know what edition or year that story was in?

[marlinman93]

The old Lyman M does (long and short) were not caliber specific. I have a pair of very old M dies, and they have interchangeable threaded expanders, so just the two dies and a good selection of expanders do everything I need in the way of expanding or belling cases. I've never seen an M die expander that both expanded and belled in one step? All my expanders have a straight body, so if I want to expand, and then bell, I have to do the bell with a larger expander in a separate step.
My very old M dies are also milled out on the sides, so I can see the expander touch, or enter the case mouths. I really love that feature too!

[marlinman93]

If you can get into the series of The ABC's of Handloading by Dean Grennell, he wrote a whole chapter in one of the books on how to make your own expander spuds that are all interchangeable on the Lyman M dies. He shows you how to make any size or shape spud using Loctite, standard size threaded rod and a box to hold them all. LLS

I believe the old timer I got my two M dies from must have either read that, or figured it out too! I got a wooden block full of expanders plugs with my two dies when he sold them to me! Most appear to be made and not purchased. They each have their own hole that the threaded end fits in the block, and the size written neatly by each expander for quick reference. Gave a whopping $20 for both dies, and 35-40 expanders.