Paper Patching the Muzzleloader

[Keith]

I have always shot greasers in my frontstuffer but I have been reading on here that some use the same PP bullet in their ML as in their cartridge rifle.
Now I have a BACO Money bullet I am trying in the Roller and I patch leaving a gap in the centre of the flat base. Is it advisable to use this method in the ML or is there a risk the bullet will push through the patch when loading.
I could twist the tail as is done with cup base bullets but it just does not seem right.
Both rifles use the same Green Mountain barrel so patch up to the same fit.

Keith

[Nobade]

I patch muzzleloaders just like cartridge rifles. If using a double wrap parallelogram patch, I leave a spot of exposed bullet at the base. A tail damages the bullet on launch, and makes it a bit more difficult to shed the patch at the muzzle.

Any more though, I like using the single wrap rectangular Chase patch with muzzleloaders. I find I get better accuracy, they are simpler to cut, don't require such stiff powder charges, and they are absolutely not going to fail to come off. They are wrapped individually at the time of loading, and loaded over a stiff wad started just a bit into the muzzle to hold everything together and prevent pushing the bullet through the patch. That also works well with double wrapped patches as well.

-Nobade

[Huvius]

The optimal bullet size is one that requires just a little pressure to seat the boolit.
No need to ram it home as you would a patched round ball.

[BrentD]

Keith,
I am doing what you describe. I do size my bullets down slightly for the muzzleloader to ensure they do not hang up or push through the patch. My muzzleloader barrel is pretty tight compared to do my cartridge barrels too. I use a Lee push-through sizing die to do this with the paper on the bullet.

My patch folds under the base and leaves about 1/2 of the diameter exposed. I do not push the bullet through the patch, even if the bullet is a bit tight because I use a wad under the bullet and I seat this at the same time that I seat the patch. As Nobade describes, the wad keeps that paper from unfolding and everything slides in pretty nicely. Of course, I wipe my bore before reloading.

Brent

[BrentD]

Keith, are you planning on shooting the 2017 world match that will be held in your backyard?

[Keith]

Thanks for the info all, I will give it a go now.
Brent , I have been trying to find out more info on the match but not having much luck.
You might know more than anyone. I am in the SSAA and they dont have it on their list.
Who is the governing body and what rules are they using?
I would like to know how much time for each shot, number of shots etc.
I am in Queensland and I believe its in South Australia so its a few days on the road for us. The missus might have to go on dialysis soon so everything is in the air at the moment. We are in our seventies but have a camper to travel in.
If we do make it , see you there.
One question. You have an article I found on patching etc and I was interested in making a pistol grip for the Roller but the crucial part wont come up for me. All the others on bullet swaging etc do OK.
Thanks.
Keith

[BrentD]

The US team is under the auspices of the USIMLT. I presume there is a overarching international variant of this, but I don't now what it is. They have a complex and somewhat odd, but well defined, rule set that I have read somewhere on the web, but I can't put my finger on where exactly. International rules are pretty rigorous, and they have both original and reproduction (open?) classes. I'll see if I can find a link to that set of rules. I would like to read it again (and again and again).

I am told it will be around Adelaide which is just a hop and a skip for you :) Something like September or October in 2017. I sure hope you and your wife can make it. I would love to meet the many Australians that populate the various forums. I've probably met close to 10 at Raton, but now it is our turn to visit and meet the rest of you guys.

By the way, is it hard to shoot, when standing upside down? I've always wondered about that... :)


This should help with the pistol grip issue http://www.public.iastate.edu/~codi/PGrip/pistolgrip.html

[BrentD]

Keith,
I have some more information.
The international organization is found at http://mlaic.org

and their rules are at http://mlaic.org/who-we-are/constitution-rules/

[Keith]

Thanks for the links Brent. Man there is some reading there.
I was going to ask about how one measures their charge each time but now see you use pre measured containers.
What is the preference, glass or some sort of plastic. Screw top or plug?
That pistol grip article I found would not load but that link worked. I will have a go at that.

Keith

[BRUCE MOULDS]

keith,
check your p.m.

[montana_charlie]

I have always shot greasers in my frontstuffer but I have been reading on here that some use the same PP bullet in their ML as in their cartridge rifle.
Now I have a BACO Money bullet I am trying in the Roller and I patch leaving a gap in the centre of the flat base. Is it advisable to use this method in the ML or is there a risk the bullet will push through the patch when loading.
I could twist the tail as is done with cup base bullets but it just does not seem right.
Both rifles use the same Green Mountain barrel so patch up to the same fit.

Keith
Is the rate of twist for the rifling the same in both barrels?

[Keith]

Yes, they are both 1-18 twist.
Reading the rules Brent linked to, I may not be able to use it anyway.
They stipulate original or replicas only.
Mine has a full metal receiver perhaps a bit like a Wesson with a separate butt stock and forend. It is made of Stainless and has a coil spring so I imagine tha puts me out of the comp.
Maybe I will keep my eyes open for a Pedersoli Gibbs.

[BrentD]

I'm not sure that it does. There is the Peter Allen boxlock and a Lee Shaver-made Ferriss rifle that are (I think) allowed. Not sure if stainless is out. Heck, the rules are a bit of a challenge, and I hear some folks can get quite picky after the fact and once the scores are posted.

[Keith]

I bought this over 20 years ago. Here is a photo with its new Green Mountain barrel.
Do you think it will pass the rules?
It has a 39 inch sight radius now.
Keith
165939165940

[BrentD]

Well,,, I really don't know. I"ve never seen anything like it! It is darn COOL though! What is it? What is the caliber and twist rate and where does it come from and what was it used for and - well, don't just stop there. You've gotta explain this thing!

[BrentD]

Would you mind much if I reposted those pictures on an email list? I might get an answer to your question.

When was it made? That might be very important.

[Keith]

I only fitted the new barrel yesterday. A GM 1-18 the same as my cartridge guns, hence hoping to use the same paper patch money bullet.
I understood from the guy I bought it from that it was made by a TAFE teacher at Brisbane uni.
On the side plate is embossed E. Thompson. with the date 1980.
It had a heavy slow twist barrel and Parker Hale sights so was just a short range slug gun type rifle.
Bruce M gave me a phone number in Adelaide to ring for info but even though I left my name number and message he has not bothered to call back. Perhaps they dont want Banana Benders coming. I heard they can be a strange lot.
Yes, post the pics. If it would be eligible for the match , that would save me getting another.
Keith

[BrentD]

I'll ask if anyone knows anything about the design. If it was made as a replica of an early rifle, it might be legal. All I can do is ask.

Brent

[bema]

I"m a long range shooter in the Netherlands and in the need of paper patch paper. I found The paper mill store, but because I'm outside the US need to order for $ 250,= on paper. That's to much. Any other source or someone willing to sell 9 lbs onion paper to me?

[BRUCE MOULDS]

buffalo arms

[BrentD]

These are good papers
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-NOS-SOUTHWORTH-ONIONSKIN-COCKLE-9-LBS-TYPEWRITER-PAPER-419CF-100-Sheet-/272215190478?hash=item3f614a2bce:g:r~wAAOSw2GlXE--W
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Southworth-onion-skin-cockle-finish-409C-full-box-500-sheets-9-lb-light-weight-/152063201302?hash=item2367ac5016:g:eEgAAOSw3mpXGTV n
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-NOS-SOUTHWORTH-ONIONSKIN-COCKLE-TYPEWRITER-PAPER-419CF-100-Sheet-/272215188733?hash=item3f614a24fd:g:Z-0AAOSwiYFXE-8G

[Keith]

I bought this stuff off Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004BN9YS6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Seth Cole 8lb sketch paper. Its a bit thinner than the stuff I got from BACO and seems to work OK

[Keith]

Keith, are you planning on shooting the 2017 world match that will be held in your backyard?
I emailed Kim Atkinson he is a SSAA rep and the Aussie MLAIC rep.
He replied.
"Information will be released very soon"

[BrentD]

It would be great to have some details this far out in advance so we can start planning.