PP Magee underhammer

[BPJONES]

In a previous underhammer thread I mentioned I would post pics of this rifle when I received it. I thought it best to start a new thread instead of hijacking the other. Anyhow, I received the rifle today and, to say the least, I am quite pleased with it. The rifle is a 45 caliber. The barrel is an octagon that turns into round and it is stamped PP Magee, Eastview Ontario (Canada). There are no other stampings on the barrel except for 45 caliber BP and the year 1966 which is in the same stamping script as the name. The stock is maple with an unmarked ID tag inlet into the bottom. The stock also has the Canadian Maple Leaf inlet into it. It is not a stencil but rather a separate carved piece of wood that has been very well inlet. The gun has a Redfield aperture sight. This gun is a simple design yet very well made and of very good quality. I have not been able to find anything yet really on PP Magee. However, as luck would have it, yesterday I received an email from the Gent I bought it from. He was at a gun show this past weekend in Ontario and he had an H&A underhammer with him. Out of the blue an older gent walked up to him and said he hadn't seen an underhammer since looking at the ones Peter Patrick Magee used to make. This gent used to work for Magee and he said he loved underhammers. He said there were times when the RCMP would knock on the door and Magee would leave with them, leaving the gent to close up shop. The fellow I bought the gun from didn't ask but he assumed he meant a gun shop. Anyhow, the gent said that Magee was also a Queen's Messenger. I researched what that was, which I posted below, which might explain the different times he would disappear with the RCMP. Anyhow, I can find no markings or numbers of any kind on any of the parts or on the barrel. Is there the possibility this gun was made from scratch? As mentioned, it is quite well made with very nice fit and finish. The barrel has 8 lands and grooves. The fellow I got it from actually had 2 underhammers from this maker and, from the information given by the gent at the gun show, Magee apparently made a few of these rifles. Anyone else here on the forum, particularly from Canada, know anything about PP Magee from back in the day? Below are pics of the rifle. I left it apart to show the construction. The pics make everything look somewhat washed out but there is quite a bit more bluing to the barrel than what it appears in the pics. The bore is in excellent condition as is the overall rifle.
The Corps of Queen's Messengers are couriers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courier) employed by the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_and_Commonwealth_Office). They hand-carry secret and important documents to British embassies and consulates around the world. Many Queen's Messengers are retired Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army) personnel. Messengers generally travel in plain clothes in business class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_class) on scheduled airlines, carrying an official case from which they must not be separated - it may even be chained to their wrist.

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j470/picadilly1/Magee/magee%20006_zps1lljyy1r.jpg (http://s1087.photobucket.com/user/picadilly1/media/Magee/magee%20006_zps1lljyy1r.jpg.html)
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j470/picadilly1/Magee/magee%20008_zpsj0zbv5or.jpg (http://s1087.photobucket.com/user/picadilly1/media/Magee/magee%20008_zpsj0zbv5or.jpg.html)

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j470/picadilly1/Magee/magee%20012_zpsvd4r3o5i.jpg (http://s1087.photobucket.com/user/picadilly1/media/Magee/magee%20012_zpsvd4r3o5i.jpg.html)
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j470/picadilly1/Magee/magee%20017_zpsfveisjf6.jpg (http://s1087.photobucket.com/user/picadilly1/media/Magee/magee%20017_zpsfveisjf6.jpg.html)

[waarp8nt]

I like it. It looks really well built...clean all the way down to the maple leaf. It is difficult to tell by the picture, does the top spring pull or push the hammer closed to fire?

[Earlwb]

Nice gun. it looks good. The octagonal to round barrel effect gives it a good look too.

[Nobade]

Nice! A good looking, well designed action. You've got something worth having there.

-Nobade

[dondiego]

I like it. It looks really well built...clean all the way down to the maple leaf. It is difficult to tell by the picture, does the top spring pull or push the hammer closed to fire?

Look like it pulls the hammer to me.

[John Taylor]

I have an old original I picked up years ago that has the same stile action. It is missing the hammer and trigger and your picture will be a great help in restoring this old gun. The forearm is a piece of sheet metal shaped for the ram rod and soldered to the lower side flats of the octagon barrel. The butt stock is missing a few slivers. Butt stock also has the old grease hole that was common on less expensive rifles. Bore is in nice shape except for the last inch. Will need to make a new breach plug with tangs as the old one was forge welded and not in good shape.

[Screwbolts]

That sure is a fine looking and well built Underhammer, Thank you for sharing.

Ken

[BPJONES]

Look like it pulls the hammer to me.

Yes, it pulls the hammer to fire.

[BPJONES]

I have an old original I picked up years ago that has the same stile action. It is missing the hammer and trigger and your picture will be a great help in restoring this old gun. The forearm is a piece of sheet metal shaped for the ram rod and soldered to the lower side flats of the octagon barrel. The butt stock is missing a few slivers. Butt stock also has the old grease hole that was common on less expensive rifles. Bore is in nice shape except for the last inch. Will need to make a new breach plug with tangs as the old one was forge welded and not in good shape.


If you need or would like more pics of the action, just pm me and I can send some to your email.

[waarp8nt]

Yes, it pulls the hammer to fire.

That's what I expected with the pin, but could tell for sure. Thanks!


I have an old original I picked up years ago that has the same stile action. It is missing the hammer and trigger and your picture will be a great help in restoring this old gun. The forearm is a piece of sheet metal shaped for the ram rod and soldered to the lower side flats of the octagon barrel. The butt stock is missing a few slivers. Butt stock also has the old grease hole that was common on less expensive rifles. Bore is in nice shape except for the last inch. Will need to make a new breach plug with tangs as the old one was forge welded and not in good shape.

How about some pictures, sounds interesting.

[John Taylor]

This is what I have. The rifling goes through the threads for the breach plug which seems a bit strange. I will be enlarging the threads when I make a new plug. The sheet metal forearm is going to be fun, need to make up a bending jig. The old one is not worth trying to save. Should be no problem making a new breach plug and welding tangs to it. Looks like someone tried to seal the old one by wrapping string around it. The nipple has been staked in place so it will get a threaded bushing for a new one. Have not decided if I will cut the barrel back to get rid of the worn rifling at the muzzle. Hammer and trigger will be the hardest parts to make.
165569

[BPJONES]

They may have taken a typical percussion barrel and cut off the bolster portion and threaded the end of the barrel?

[John Taylor]

They may have taken a typical percussion barrel and cut off the bolster portion and threaded the end of the barrel?
I believe this was originally an under hammer made 1840s-1850s. There are no marks for barrel tennons like you would see if it came off another gun. It has two very good ram rod thimble that look like they were dovetailed and soldered in place. The sights are very low to the barrel, this thing was designed for dragging through the brush.

[Antietamgw]

Thanks for the new thread and the pics! I've been looking at various underhammer designs for a few years with the intent to build one. I'd sketched up a few actions that incorporated features I thought important. Your Magee rifle is pretty much what I dreamed up but couldn't quite get on paper.

[woodbutcher]

:bigsmyl2: Ohhhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyyyyyyyy.Now that is sweet.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo