Craftsman Atlas 109 lathe

[Sghinds]

First off, I have never used a metal lathe. I am pretty handy, and have watched some videos on machining and find it fascinating and pretty straight forward. I have an opportunity to pick up a Craftsman 109 Atlas lathe and was wondering if it were a good lathe to learn on. Only thing I would probably want to do is maybe machine small parts, would love to mess with making swage dies, custom reloading dies etc. Not looking at doing anything large or really technical that I can think of.

Does this lathe have the power, or would I be better off with something larger or newer? My main thought was the size of the unit. I dont really have the space for a large lathe, nor do I have the experience and feel a smaller lathe would best suit me since I have never used one before.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I am not sure what the Atlas 109 is but I think you are talking about the small four inch bench model. There is a gentleman on the ASSSA website who goes by the handle Nuclear Cricket who has one and he does beautiful work on it. He has made scope caps for me and they are very well done. As for size, like everything else in life, bigger is usually better. It all depends on the size of your wallet and the size of your working space.

[tim338]

Sure that lathe can do those things you mentioned. Your not going to take .250 cuts with it but if your not in a hurry it should do fine work as long as the machine isn't worn out or has been abused. Check for wear on the ways by the headstock, see if there is excessive play in the half nuts, and make sure the spindle runs true. If it checks out buy it and start making chips. Enjoy

[oldred]

Advice about whether or not to buy that lathe depends a great deal on price, condition and included tools and accessories!!!!


You need to check around and compare prices but again any lathe you find is likely to vary greatly with what's included in the deal, you need to be aware that tooling can easily equal or even exceed the cost of the lathe if it doesn't include extras. Then you really should compare that lathe to other machines in your price and work space range, there are better machines out there than that Craftsman which was an economy built machine and is a bit on the lightweight side and not noted for being really sturdy.

The things you need to consider are, what is the REALISTIC price once you get the lathe tooled up with the necessary tooling, remember a lathe without tooling is a lot like a gun without ammo! Next, are any accessories included such as 3 and 4 jaw chucks, a face plate, what about thread gearing? Then there is wear to consider on what is obviously an older machine, while it could indeed be nearly new it could also easily have serious wear issues. Badly worn ways can cause problems as can worn out spindle bearings, etc so all that must be considered. If you don't feel you have enough experience to meaningfully evaluate this machine do you know someone qualified who could look at it and give a knowledgeable opinion? Don't be swayed by a slick looking clean up and paint job! A Krylon rebuild might look good but it won't make up for a dip in the ways a few inches in front of the chuck, which is a very common condition on an older machine, or for excessive spindle runout.

[footpetaljones]

The 109 is basically identical to the Atlas 618, iirc. With a swing of 6" and 18" between centers (hence the 618), as long as you aren't trying to do work on rifle barrels you should be fine. Like Tim said, you won't take heavy cuts, but it will get there. More important would be the tooling that comes with it. If it comes with a 4 jaw chuck, that'd be better than a 3 jaw. Standard tooling includes a live center, dead center, tool post, boring bars, tailstock Jacobs chuck, steady rest, and assorted cutting/facing/parting tools. If the lathe doesn't come with all/any of that you are easily looking at more than the cost of the lathe to get a basic amount of tooling. Youtube is a great place to go for machining videos. If you haven't found them already TubalCain, OxToolCo, and xynudu are channels I regularly watch.

[EDG]

I had one of those for a year or so. I spent between 10,000 and 12,000 hours running engine lathes and turret lathes before and during college.
The smallest thing that I ran was a 13" tool room lathe. So I was use to running real machines.

I think it might be ok for polishing parts, trimming cases, cutting case rims and extractor grooves. I had no 4 jaw, no steady rest, no feed on the cross slide and I did not have the other gears. The hole through the headstock is about 5/8" and the headstock bearings are bronze. Rather than spend more money on it I got rid of it. It might be easier to make one of them complete with the internet.
I was never happy with the little atlas so I just took my projects to work and did them at lunch. It just ticked me off because it looked like I owned a lathe but it was not really a lathe. I think it would be a pretty sorry thing to learn on. You might cut aluminum or brass a little but I think it might ruin your attitude toward learning since it is so limited in almost every way.

[Sghinds]

I think I may pass on this one. He has a brand new motor for it, and this is what is listed as coming with it. Seems to be missing a few of the normal things that come with one based on posts above. See photos of the machine in question.

"upgraded 4 jaw chuck, 1/2 jacobs chuck with tailstock adapter, full set of gears, one extra sleeve and 2 cutters"

165477

165478

165479

[tim338]

The Atlas 618 or Craftsman badged version is a small machine with limited capabilities. However I think it's a pretty good machine to learn on because they are inexpensive and lots were made so parts are really easy to find. Tooling will cost much more than the machine. Yes they are small, not very ridged and do not have power cross feed. Much better machines than the small imports offered in my opinion.

[bob208]

it is close to the bottom. but way ahead of the harbor fright import lathes of that size. for a beginner it is a good lathe to start on. working around its short comings you will learn. walker in his book hobby gunsmithing speaks highly of the 618 lathe.

just make shore it has the change gears with it. you did not say price or what came with it.

[Sghinds]

it is close to the bottom. but way ahead of the harbor fright import lathes of that size. for a beginner it is a good lathe to start on. working around its short comings you will learn. walker in his book hobby gunsmithing speaks highly of the 618 lathe.

just make shore it has the change gears with it. you did not say price or what came with it.

Looking to make a trade for it, but he is asking $500. What he says comes with it is

"upgraded 4 jaw chuck, 1/2 jacobs chuck with tailstock adapter, full set of gears, one extra sleeve and 2 cutters"

[oldred]

I had one of those for a year or so. I spent between 10,000 and 12,000 hours running engine lathes and turret lathes before and during college.
The smallest thing that I ran was a 13" tool room lathe. So I was use to running real machines.

I think it might be ok for polishing parts, trimming cases, cutting case rims and extractor grooves. I had no 4 jaw, no steady rest, no feed on the cross slide and I did not have the other gears. The hole through the headstock is about 5/8" and the headstock bearings are bronze. Rather than spend more money on it I got rid of it. It might be easier to make one of them complete with the internet.
I was never happy with the little atlas so I just took my projects to work and did them at lunch. It just ticked me off because it looked like I owned a lathe but it was not really a lathe. I think it would be a pretty sorry thing to learn on. You might cut aluminum or brass a little but I think it might ruin your attitude toward learning since it is so limited in almost every way.


You said what I really wanted to say but figured I would encounter a lot of disagreement, apparently not.




it is close to the bottom. but way ahead of the harbor fright import lathes of that size

I would have to respectfully disagree that the Atlas is a lot better than the Chinese imports of that size even the HF version which is no worse than any of the others, the HF lathe of that size is the EXACT same machine as those sold by Enco and many others under different brand names including the way overpriced Jet! In some ways the imports are actually a better machine but overall I would rate them about the same and the imports can often be found cheaper. Not all of the old domestic machinery was good and that little Atlas is a prime example.

[akajun]

Looking to make a trade for it, but he is asking $500. What he says comes with it is

"upgraded 4 jaw chuck, 1/2 jacobs chuck with tailstock adapter, full set of gears, one extra sleeve and 2 cutters"

not worth 500 dollars, that is a dunlop lathe. Hold off for something better, even a import 9x20 would be better than that.

[bob208]

no not worth that kind of money. a friend just picked up a south bend 9" with 4 1/2 foot bed quick change gear box and tool holders for $450.

[Chill Wills]

First off, I have never used a metal lathe. I am pretty handy, and have watched some videos on machining and find it fascinating and pretty straight forward. I dont really have the space for a large lathe, nor do I have the experience and feel a smaller lathe would best suit me since I have never used one before.

Give yourself the gift of time. Bone up on the machines and the new and used market for a few months. Check out Craig's List both in and out of your area just see what is out there and resale prices. By doing that' you will get a broad overview of what the home machinist can expect to buy. What is a good deal and what is not.

I own a WWII era Southbend lathe and so I sometimes follow:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/
But there are a lot others too.

Spend some time getting a feel for what is out there and you will make a much better choice. What you are looking at is OK but I bet you will find it too limiting.
Again, wait. Don't jump on the first thing. Especially if it is not a good deal.

[footpetaljones]

Give yourself the gift of time. Bone up on the machines and the new and used market for a few months. Check out Craig's List both in and out of your area just see what is out there and resale prices. By doing that' you will get a broad overview of what the home machinist can expect to buy. What is a good deal and what is not.

I own a WWII era Southbend lathe and so I sometimes follow:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/
But there are a lot others too.

Spend some time getting a feel for what is out there and you will make a much better choice. What you are looking at is OK but I bet you will find it too limiting.
Again, wait. Don't jump on the first thing. Especially if it is not a good deal.

lathes.co.uk is an amazing resource/time sucker for general information on lathes.

[rbuck351]

I have both a 6x18 Craftsman and an HF 7x14. The HF has a variable speed motor with high and low range but the 6x18 has a back gear. Either one will do small work in steel but .010 to .015 is about all you can remove at one pass. I make H&I dies and top punches and dies for my Swag O Matic. The Craftsman is better at threading as it will go much slower than the HF and has a bunch more power in back gear than the HF. You appear to be missing the jack shaft and pulleys that go between the motor and the lathe. $500 is a lot for that lathe especially if you don't know the condition of the head stock bushings. The lathe is capable of doing small items IF it is in good shape. It works just like a bigger lathe so it would be fine for learning but condition is everything. If the head stock is not tight and aligned or the bed has wear, you will not be able to make a smooth cut or make a shaft the same size from one end to the other.

[Frank46]

Still have the craftsman metal lathe I bought after I got out of the navy 40 some odd years ago. Was a great teaching lathe and still occasionally use it. Great for making small parts and I even cut down a 22rf martini barrel to be installed on a ruger 10/22. Shot very well this barrel had a parker hale liner in it and from what I have heard shot better than the original barrels. Tight squeeze trying to cut down and had to have a smith chamber it and do the extractor grooves and where the locking bar went. Now have a jet gearhead 13x40 to play with. Do yourself a favot and get on the mailing lists of Travers Tool, Enco, and MSC. the catalogs are like the sears wishbook of days gone by. Learn how to grind your own tool bits that alone is a skill worth having. Like one poster said take your time. See whats out there and compare what the pro's and con's are of each one.
I live in the oil patch here in louisiana and you would figure that there would be used lathes available. The only one I found was stored outside uncovered, no accessories, wires looked to have been ripped out and was aquiring a good coat of rust. After that I got the jet. same for tooling thats why I said get on the mailing lists there is a bewildering amount of stuff out there. Have fun and eventually you'll be making chips. Frank

[Mk42gunner]

I bought one of the little Craftsman 109 (Dunlap) lathes with a few tools mounted on a table this weekend for $100. I would not give $500 for one, but I thought $100 would at least let me try turning some pins, M die plugs, etc. before I jump in and spend a lot of money.

Mine also has an almost new 1/3 HP Westinghouse motor attached.

Robert

[leadman]

I have that same lathe, but I only paid $80 for it. It is not much of a lathe. Have made a couple of small items on it but it is slow to work with. I made an adapter to fire 410 shotgun shells in my 20 gauge and it took me about 4 hours! Chinese cutting tools may have played into this also.
Do some reading, buy one of the lathe books and read it so you understand what you will be able to do then shop around. I want a bigger machine and also a mill so may look into one of the combo machines. I will not be doing production so the time for changing over from lathe to mill won't bother me.

[NavyVet1959]

I saw that one on Craigslist when it first came up awhile back, but decided against it. I would like something that I could also put a barrel in and rechamber it.

We don't have the large amount of old lathes around here that the folks up north in the Rust Belt seem to have.

It seems that the best deals on lathes are usually those who need 3-phase power.

[tim338]

You can always get a phase converter or a VFD to run the 3 phase machines.

[Clark]

166369



http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page2.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page9.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page10.html
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page11.html

When a friend died, I got a 1938 Atlas Craftsman lathe 101.07402 12x36 deluxe with Timken tapered roller bearings 1939 tailstock.

1) I have put a skinny pac nor 270 barrel on a pre 64 M70 with it.

2) I have put a skinny A&B 243 barrel on a 1903 Turkish Mauser with it.

3) I have put a fat A&B 243 barrel on a 1903 Turkish Mauser with it.

4) I have put a fat Shilen 6mmBR barrel on a Sav99 with it.

5) I have put a fat Hart 308 barrel on a 1903 Turkish Mauser with it.

6) I have put a fat German 308 barrel on a 1903 Turkish Mauser with it.

7) I have put a fat German 308 barrel on a 1903 Turkish Mauser with it.


This lathe can do good gunsmithing, but it takes more time and skill.
The hole through the spindle is only 0.78", so the steady rest must be used for fat barrels.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_pics/photos/album/0/list
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman_pics/messages

I have since given it to another friend, who used it to make car parts.
--

[Huvius]

That milling attachment on Clark's machine is about $300 by itself. Very handy accessory.

[oldred]

so may look into one of the combo machines. I will not be doing production so the time for changing over from lathe to mill won't bother me.


Changing over may not bother you but what you have after you do will likely bother you a lot! Those things make so many compromises in the attempt to do everything they can barely do anything well, they are much too limited in range and severely lack in rigidity. For instance look at the ridiculously tall and skinny tail stocks and those absurdly high tool posts both of which lead to flex (a LOT of flex!) which causes chatter and inaccuracy due to all that flexing. The time to change from one function to the other is the least of the problems you will have to contend with when using one of those things, there's simply no way to prevent those tall skinny components from flexing and it wreaks havoc with accuracy.

[bob208]

sears sold more then one lathe. there were two other models that were junk. the atlas 618 was a good lathe. go to youtube and look at rpmachines and see the work he does. then tell me the atlas 618 is no good.

[GONRA]

This is 79 year olde GONRA's "boyhood lathe".
(Have no idea what a proper price is for one.)
Make sure the die cast zinc alloy gears are mint - or pass it up.

If you're a young guy and choose to get one, lateron you will use your LARGE lathe
to make the proper 20 and 40 pitch (RH, LH) feed screws/nuts etc. for 1 mil dials.
Apron, compound, tailstock, feed screw.

Purchased 3 dials. Bored out/threaded 1 inch 40 TPI threads.
Easy to mount. Small leade movement whilst zeroing doesn't do anything.
Great project for me.

Ultimate $$$ are bad of course - but finished unit sure looks cute.

Get quick change tool post (Little Machine Shop) also.
Put a decent tailstock drill chuck on your new tailstock arbor.

BUT - remember those Die Cast Zinc Change Gears!!! Small Cuts Only!!!

[44man]

I bought the cheap Smithy and did a lot of work with it. Then I found a whole Smithy Granite 1324 for sale.
The fella had a stroke and I don't think he made a thing on the lathe except to align the tail stock, I swear he waxed it!
It came with everything you can name, even a Vertex but I bought a 4 jaw for it for the odd stuff.
I taught my self on the cheaper Smithy, never machined a thing before.
I built a huge oak bench for it and got it all down the basement. To get the mill head on I had to remove a ceiling tile and screw a large eye bolt in a joist and use my deer hoist to lift it.
The head is over 200#.
It was expensive at $7000. I made my mold vise with the old one and cut cherries on this one, make cutters with the vertex and make my own boolit molds.
I love the way chucks mount, slide them on and tighten 3 locks with the same wrench I adjust the chucks with.
I had one problem, brush springs would get hot and motor would quit. They sent new ones free but I found springs in my spring stash and changed them. It has run years with no problems. Speed is variable with a dial. I have auto feed in all directions. Most thread pitch is just a slide of a handle but I have gears for anything. I have 2 steady rests that I have not needed yet too.
A friend had a little cheap lathe and he never cut anything straight. Could not make a straight hole. I did better by hand.
I don't depend on dials with backlash so I measure and creep up to dimensions but they are closer then the cheap machine.
But HOG heaven is here now. I know a Smithy can't equal better but darn, it works for me.
Next I bought a tool grinder from Woodcraft, slower at 1725 so it does not heat much. It was cheap and is the very best to grind cutters. Wheels last forever. Don't use fast grinders for cutting tools.

[44man]

I also got the quick change tool post with many blocks and the R8 drill chuck along with the tail stock chuck. Also collets for anything. An extension for the tail stock chuck too.