How about the Pre-War bolt action classics?

[pill bug]

Does anybody here at Cast boolits like these classic American sporters from the teens thru the 30's? I'm thinking about those guns that transitioned hunters from lever to bolt action, rifles like the m54 Winchester, m30 Remington, 1920 Savage and the Sedgley Springfield. These are the guns our great grandfathers pulled out of the ford model "T" at deer camp to show off to hunting buddies. Who must have been excited, bewidered and amused by the new High powered wonder.

[Outpost75]

My friends and I all shoot "Old School Boltguns" in .30-'06. Among our group are two Type S Springfields, Two NRA Sporters, a 03A4 sniper, a 1942 USMC 03A1 with 10x Unertl, two Winchester 54s and a 1940 Winchester Model 70 Marksman with Lyman 48 rear and boxed 8x Unertl with BuWeps property tag on the box. Others shoot Swiss K31s and the occasional No.4 Enfield Cdn. target rifle. We shoot 200 and 300 yards using mostly HM2-.312-160-5 with 16 grains of Alliant #2400 for standing and sitting rapid, and 30 grs. of 4895, 4064, RL15 or Varget at 300.

Some eye candy...

165347165348165349165350

[Mk42gunner]

I like them, the problem is finding one in decent shape that is still affordable. Plus my eyes don't agree with iron sights any more.

Robert

[northmn]

I used to buy and shoot old bolt action military rifles. Whether pre-war depends on definition. Some worked very well like a 303 British, some needed a lot of work. The Russian rifles had some interesting bore variations with one carbine at 317. Its a good way to preserve the rifles. 30-30 Winchesters all seemed to be no baariners with cast. Lyman has many cast bullets specifically made for the 30-06 and 30-40 Krag. the competition sound like fun.

DP

[Bent Ramrod]

I like the Model 30 Remingtons, and look for them in the proprietary Remington calibers. I have one in .25 Remington and one in .30 Remington. Very nice calibers and tragically unappreciated, especially the .25. By the time people started discovering its potential as a varmint cartridge, the .22 Hornet had been developed and written up, and that was it for the .25.

Have seen exactly one specimen in .35 Remington and have given up on ever seeing a .32 Remington. Most are in .30-06, .257 Roberts and occasionally 7mm.

Much less common than the Winchester 54s and you have to wade through tons of sporterized Enfields to find one. A Rara Avis for sure.

By the way, the "deformed," "misshapen" stocks on these rifles are perfect for offhand snap shooting. Unfortunately, the gun press of the time was dominated by military and civilian target shooters who thought anything you couldn't lie down with a sling and fire ten Xs with prone was no good. They were responsible for a lot of bulbous forends, fat butt stocks and graceless pistol grips being grafted onto a lot of what had formerly been quick-handling woods rifles.

[Char-Gar]

Growingl up in the 40s and 50s, there were plenty of these old rifles around. In those days they were just cheap old guns and within the reach of a teenager with a job. I owned several Springfield Sporters, Mauser Sporters, Krags, Winchester 70s, 54s, and a Remington 30S.

My passion for them still runs deep and I still favor them over today's rifles. I own a slew of Krags, several old Winchester 70, A couple of Springfields along with several pre-war Remington pump rifles.

About 10 years ago, I decided to build up a Springfield NRA clone and a Mauser sporter. They both turned out well...here they are.

[Scharfschuetze]

Some of mine. All good shooters and will often out shoot the new ones.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have been working on Boyd's to produce a Springfield NRA Sporter Stock. I started at the SHOT Show and gave them pictures and dimensions enough to convert one of their existing Springfield stocks to work. I talked to Randy Boyd for 45 minutes about this project and they are actually considering it.

In fact one of the pics I gave them was of Charles' Rifle shown above. I also gave them pics off Gunbroker and other examples of the stock.

If and when they produce, we all will be able to take our Springfield 03 or 03A3 barreled action and attach the correct Buttplate and Barrel Band and Lyman #48 Receiver Sight, and have one of these guns to shoot to our hearts content. Also it will probably look far better than the originals! You would have your choice of 20 different Laminates or real walnut in a variety of grades. What's not to like.

Ones on Gunbroker are listing for anywhere from $3500 to 6500.

If the stocks actually come to fruition I will notify everyone here and also I am looking at knocking off the Barrel Band and the Buttplate. My originals cost me $75 for each part! and that was a screamin deal. One guy on Ebay has the audacity to ask $230 for just the barrel band, which I might add is also used on the Springfield M2 .22. It is nothing more than a normal barrel band pushed into a forming die which I can make in about 3 hours. The Buttplate will be an investment casting. They both will be considerably less than $75 each!

These guns could easily dominate Short Range Silhouette shoots using Cast Boolit Loads or any other target application that a normal Springfield would be appropriate for. Our Club would even allow you to shoot in the National Match Shoots we have once a month which go back and forth between 200 and 600 yard courses. So you could use jacketed bullets for the Full Course and Boolits for the Short Course. A 2 MOA gun would be a 12" group at 600 yards which is entirely doable with a decent barrel and good ammo.

I also have been shooting my Enfield #4 Mk1 for Long Range Silhouette and been averaging scores in the 4-6/40 range using Iron Sights. Since our clubs high shooters average 12-14 with scoped rifles I feel pretty good about my scores. I have also shot that Enfield at the Short Range Shoot and scored 31/40 the second time out. This is high score for the club! and I won again last year.

I also would not hesitate taking that gun to Canada to take a game animal up there. In fact I would think it would be completely appropriate since most game animals in Canada are shot with Enfields,,,, so in Rome,,,

All of these guns also represent great refurbishment possibilities, and chances to show off your refinishing skills. In my case the Enfield got altered to be more like an L39 Target rifle. It totally looks the part.

It is not quite as accurate as it's .308 counterpart. But it is as accurate as I can hold the gun offhand which is how most all of this type of non field shooting is done. I might add that the majority (well past 50%) of my misses this last Saturday were misses of less than 1 foot from any of the targets at 500,385,300 and 200 meters! We call those "Quality Misses!" Point being I had a great time doing it!

I also might add that had they been bigger targets, like man sized targets, they all would have fell.

And that's kind of the point. Any shooting is better than no shooting and a nice looking gun that actually shoots, encourages you to shoot more.

Randy

[M-Tecs]

I have always wanted a M30 Remington and a Sedgley Springfield. Never found ones at a price point I could live with. I do have a couple of Krags, 1903's, M1917 and SMLE's.

[aephilli822]

165517

[aephilli822]

Since nobody local wants this, I may put my nickel steel receiver and Smith Corona barrel in this stock.....

[Frank46]

How about the pre war military mausers?. First one that comes to mind is the Persian mauser long rifle, and they made a carbine as well. Then you have the Czech VZ-24's. And for grins and giggles while not being a mauser are the Finn model 27 moisin nagant rifles in 7.62x54r. Frank

[Traffer]

My father, now deceased, was born in 1904. He told many wonderful stories from the old days. One of the guns he talked about being fairly common when he was young was a M1898 Krag-Jorgensen. I wonder what kind of system they had in those days to buy Military surplus rifles. I sure would like to have an old 30-40 Krag now.

[Traffer]

My first "deer rifle" was an old M1917 non-sporterized. It had the peep sight. Being 12 when I got it, full of excitement I learned how to use that peep sight and memorized the ballistics charts for longer range shooting. It came in handy. I got my first deer at the age of 13 from a standing position at 365 yards. If you have good eyes and learn how to use a peep sight, my opinion is that they are very nearly as good as a scope up to 300 yards.

[sharps4590]

Pre-war...those are "new" rifles to me!! But yes, I have a few though none in military guise. Mine are all Mannlicher or Mauser sporters. To my eye there is very few rifles made today that match the elegance of those from the US, Britain or Germany from the between the war era.

[northmn]

My daughter has taken a few deer with a sporterized Chilean Mauser rebarreled to 300 Savage. While altered it is an older original rifle. I was told by a shooting associate that his dad was a gunsmith and had a few customers that rebarred their old 722 Remingtons to 308's (said some called them 30-08's) I am sure this old rifle was a use of one of these rebarrels by a gunsmith that had a Remington barrel laying around as the barrel is marked Remington.
Got my first deer with a sporterized 303 British and still have the rifle. My father mail ordered it and it cost somewhere around $25. Kennedy got shot and those rifles were no longer mail order available. I have a Turkish Mauser I sporterized (it was not collectable) It makes a very functional deer rifle and is quite accurate. Got a couple of deer with it while in battle dress but the stock was pretty rotten. Bought it off a table at a gun show and chose it for the best bore and action of those on the table. Now sports a different bolt and stock and is D&T for a scope.
Still look at that old 303 and think about carrying it out again. Took another deer with a cast bullet out of another 303 in full battle dress. Buchanans comment about the 303 in Canada is close, but it also was used a bit in Africa as well. One sportsman claimed it as a very good lion rifle. While some of the military loads were not so good the Kynoch 215 grain bullets were considered excellent. The old Remington 215 grain was a favorite in Canada. My cast bullet load was similar. Use a neck sizer to load it as the cases do not hold up to full length resizing. Common with 303 users.

DP

[Wayne Smith]

Don't have the cash. I remember when the dogleg bolt's were $75 but I didn't have it then either.

[Herb in Pa]

As chance would have it I was in a local gunshop on Saturday and looked into what I call their "Orphan Rack", found this Remington Model 30 Express in 30-06. A little rough around the edges (missing front and rear sight with the checkering gone), bore is pristine. Told them to keep the Tasco Pronghorn mounted on it and took it home for $299 all in. Mounted a K-12 Weaver, loaded up some 165 RCBS Sil in LC brass with varying loads of 2400, Took it to the range and just shot a few 5 shot groups @50 yards. Looks like it's a shooter and deserving of some TLC. I'd really like to find a front sight but that's pretty unlikely. Anyway I'm happy.

[Rich/WIS]

Have a pre-war M70 06, a 1894 Krag sporter (probably done in the 20's or 30's, a 1943 vintage 03A3. The M70 has a scope, the Krag a Redfield "no drill" peep and the A3 is original military. All are fun to shoot, and even with old eyes the Krag and A3 are good as far as I need to shoot.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have several other bubba resurrection projects that have been temp shelved until my Jeep Project, actually drives, and I can build my Cera Kote Oven

They are a Springfield 03A3 that has been rebarreled and converted to ".30#1 Ackley Short Magnum." say that fast 3 times? I have cases, and dies and the forming die for that one all it needs to be a shooter is a Front Sight Blade which will only take a few minutes to make, and loading the cases I have. It will be sold as a Package Deal.

I have another Springfield Sporter that came from the same guy and is actually pretty nice though it has been irreversibly altered by the same Bubba and as such is only a shooter.

And I have a another #4 Mk1* Long Branch that also came from the same guy but he had not had his way with. I had the barrel Rebored to .35-303 by JES and got nice Gray Laminate Wood from Boyd's for it, and the only thing it needs is a Cera Kote Treatment and a new rear sight mount. I have either a Redfield 70 series Receiver sight or a Bushnell TRS 25 Red Dot for it. That gun will be cool when done. The ideal Canadian Sporter ! Once again sold as a Package Deal when I'm done playing with it.

Cera Kote is the current state of the art in gun refinishing and the pistols I have done have come out really nice. It offers a very durable almost Bomb Proof finish, that will cover up lots of early misuse and abuse that is common on older guns that might not have been taken care of as well as they could have been. I need a long oven to cook Rifles in, so that's why I am on hold for those projects.

Repurposing an old gun that has either a decent bore or can be bored out to a new caliber and then refinishing the exterior and wood, dramatically increases the value if done tastefully and correctly. You are adding value to the gun and taking it to a higher level of usefulness, where previously it was left behind. It doesn't matter what Caliber or "Obsolete Caliber" it is in, as long as cases can be found or made. There is no firearm I know of,,, that was "safe to use when produced," is not as viable a tool today as it was when new as long as it is in sound condition today. Cosmetics do not necessarily indicate soundness, a good barrel and action that locks up as intended is what you look for. All the rest can be changed. Refurbishment is a fun endeavor and if you can learn to do tasteful work can be very rewarding.

I must caution that painting a sporterized WWII battle rifle Fuschia Pink may not increase it's value in the view of the broader marketplace.. In that case either you or your female family members must like it in order to extract "Value in Use" as a means to justify your efforts. When you stray too far from conventional wisdom on finishing, you take the chance of encountering "Future Regret" when nobody wants it when it comes time to sell it.

Remember,,, that all guns, if taken care of, will outlast their current owners. You need to think ahead as to what the final disposition of each and every gun you own will be and how to maximize your $ to either use in your retirement or pass on to your family. Use it all if you can! Let them make their own, they will be better off.

I have had ideas of having a Boyd's Red Laminate Stock made in the NRA Sporter configuration, for my Springfield 03A3 barreled action. It will be primarily a Target Rifle so what the hey? I had also considered a Camo Laminate. After attaching my pretty rare Buttplate and Barrel Band the idea of a more traditional nicely Figured Walnut Stock seemed to make more sense.

I have one Nephew who, if when a little older, shows interest will get my Uncles Pristine (99%) 1964 Browning A5 Light 12 with Full and Modified Barrels in Browning Case, and my Mauser .22. These are the only guns I can't or won't sell.

All the rest of my guns will be liquidated, hopefully before I croak. They all equal money in the bank.

Where are yours going?

The first pic below is of the Canadian Defense Minister Between two Canadian Rangers He is holding a version of the new CR Rifle a Tikka CTR variant. Note the Red Laminate Stock? The Woman is holding the Fire Orange Laminate version. Which one they get is still up in the air but most of the pics I've seen show the fire Orange Variant.

Maybe my NRA Sporter Idea is not all that weird after all?

The Gray one is my Enfield .35-303 and the other is the .30 #1 Ackley Short Magnum Springfield

Randy

[Harter66]

I have a couple of pre war to end all wars Mausers 1 marked 1908 Oviedo and 1 marked Deutsche Waffen Munitions 1916 Berlin, Gew 98.
There's an 1866 Chessipot 11mm needle fire with and 1870 issue stamp on the stock but I'm not sure it would qualify without being specific about which War.

[aephilli822]

Back when the Swedish and Turkish Mausers were being sold "3 for XX$" I just HAD to bite. Got three of each. Still have 3 sporter stocks for the Swedes waiting on me to get inspired. But now that the unmolested ones are "worth something" I may have to leave one alone....
BZN 42 Mauser in Mannlicher style stock was in 7x61 Sharpe & Hart, so HAD to have it, too.
Remington 03 "Match Rifle" shown earlier is the least molested of 3 I have. The Smith Corona 03A3 is pretty bubbafied, tho.
I haven't sent the VZ24 to Shaw's to be made a 458 Win Mag yet.


Don't judge me, I'm down to 2 Garands.....

[W.R.Buchanan]

I also have an M96 Swede made in 1899!... It is being converted to a CG63 Target Rifle. That gun has been on hold for a fairly long time waiting for me to develop the stock fitting skills necessary to adequately finish the fitting of a knock off CG63 stock in nice walnut which is absolutely beautiful.

It will be an excellent shooter and will be very pretty when finished. This gun wasa 1.5MOA gun before I took it apart. The previous wood was completely oil soaked and looked like most early Enfields, so it got scrapped.

Check out the grain,,, and believe me the pictures don't do it justice.

This gun will be my goto gun for Long Range Silhouette when done. 6.5x55 is well suited to that game.

Randy

[aephilli822]

Lookit the siza that bolt.....

[Frank46]

Love the Swedish mausers so much I have 6 of them. One model 38 and 4 1896's and one that has been drilled and tapped for scopes and the barrel cut back to about 1/2" in front of the front barrel band. One of them did suffer a blown primer from some old Lapua target ammo so that one cost me a new firing pin. Low recoil and excellent accuracy what could anyone ask for more. Truth be told 4 of them cost me $75 bucks each and while the stocks look worn they all shoot. Buddy of mine who owns a gun shop had them in the rack @$75 each. Funny thing is that they all have matching parts. Frank

[Earlwb]

I have shot and hunted with some old bolt action rifles as well. One of my first was a 7.65 Argentine rifle. The Argentine Mauser was the first gun I reloaded cartridges for too. I really liked it. Later I used a Saimese Mauser (I made and hand loaded the ammo for it) for hunting too. I liked the slide cover to help protect the action. That slide cover was handy for Elk hunting in the fall when it would freeze at night or you'd get ice and sleet storms. I later acquired a Spanish Mauser and used it a lot for deer hunting at the time. I also had a 8mm Mauser that I used too.

[northmn]

Swedes are notorious for being difficult to use with cast bullets. Long military throat I guess. Got a deer with one many years ago, when the 18" carbines were imported. Used the old Norma 156 grain round nose and they worked fine. My brother in law has shot a lot of deer with his "swede" which has been sproterized with a black stock and bolt permitting a scope. Finn Aagard considered on about the best "deer rifle" one could get. Brings back memories. So many rifles so little time.

DEP

[Diver07]

Haven't sporterized my Enfield...but man does it shoot true. I'm also working on sporterizing a K98 mauser. It was already sported..but the bore is in bad shape. Check out the thread http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?303251-98-Mauser-rechamber . Good discussion about rechambering.

[Bent Ramrod]

Among the commercial offerings, there were also the Savage bolt actions.

The Savage Model 1920 (later the Model 20) was a small Mauser action with a special bolt peep sight, sized for the .250-3000 and the .300 Savage cartridges. Kind of a dainty little thing, with a rather indifferent trigger and a terrible job of checkering on the grip. The concept of the light "Mountain Rifle" had not been run past the Focus Groups back then and the gun was expensive and faced competition from a huge dumping of military surplus bolt actions, so only a few thousand were made. Nevertheless, it is a cute little thing, much nicer than the later Model 40, which replaced it. The Model 40 was a large, clunky bolt action of no points of excellence or aesthetics whatsoever, but it did handle the .30-06 cartridge length. Owners are advised to stick to the original 2700 fps loadings for that cartridge.

The Savage Model 23 "Sporters" were a series of bolt actions offered in .22 LR, .25-20 and .32-20, and later in .22 Hornet. Anybody looking for a good .25-20 or .32-20 rifle that isn't a lever action would do well to hunt one of these up. I think the Hornet version was the first commercial chambering for that cartridge to hit the market. A scope could be mounted on this model without having to modify the bolt handle, which was unusual for the time.

[Earlwb]

I almost forgot about my old Remington Model 8 rifle in .35 Remingtion caliber. I need to take it out and shoot it some again. I do have several boxes of ammo for it. Back when we had the big ammo shortages, I still had some boxes of ammo for it, but I was reluctant to shoot it, as I might not be able to get any more. One thing though, is that I forgot how the rear peep sight works on the thing. It is stuck in the down position, but I forgot how to unlock it to move it up to its upright position. If I remember right it is a optional sight but I forget the brand, etc. Of course nowadays I am getting pretty old and maybe using a scope would be better. But I doubt that they ever made a scope mount for it. Anyway does anyone remember how the rear sight works on it?

[Four Fingers of Death]

An old SMLE No1 Mk111* it had been a target rifle when the long range guys used to shoot 303s. It is fitted with a heavy (ish) barrel and has been sporterised. It shoots pretty well and deserves a better scope. It is how I bought it. I picked it and another SMLE bubba with nice wood, but a very ordinary barrel for $150 or both of them.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/WatosSMLE6_zpsc23073c9.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/WatosSMLE6_zpsc23073c9.jpg.html)

A 3006 M17 with a two groove barrel. Bought in a rush of blood and paid a bit too much for it, haha;

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/20101019M17Sporter.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/20101019M17Sporter.jpg.html)

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/SporterisedM17.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/SporterisedM17.jpg.html)

A Parker Hale No4 Sporter. This is a factory job. They ground out the rear sight and replaced it with a Williams open sight. I'm toying with the idea of getting a scope mount for this one (three holes drilled in LH sideplate) and rechambering to 303 Epps, although the chamber should be reasonably tight (I may be dreaming, haha, probably surplus barrels as well).

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/ParkerHaleNo4Sporter2.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/ParkerHaleNo4Sporter2.jpg.html)

[Four Fingers of Death]

I forgot about this one, a very expensive job indeed, a wealthy panelbeater had it built and I picked it up when he hung up his spurs. The stock is first class, unfortunately the scope took a hit. Strangely enough, it is built on a 1942 action, but I suppose they weren't as fussy back then. It was probably built in the 50s or 60s. Factory rifles were very expensive and SMLEs Sporters in 303 and rebarrelled to 303/25 where like posteriors, everyone had one! (even me). It has the wrong bolt in the photo, I sorted it out when I picked it up later. The old guy had two Enfields that he handed into the shop to be sold and they fitted the bolts assbackwards. All sorted now.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/20120323-SMLEMannligher8.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/20120323-SMLEMannligher8.jpg.html)

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/20120323-SMLEMannligher7.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/20120323-SMLEMannligher7.jpg.html)

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/20120323-SMLEMannligher6.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/20120323-SMLEMannligher6.jpg.html)

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/20120323-SMLEMannligher4.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/20120323-SMLEMannligher4.jpg.html)

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/20120323-SMLEMannligher2.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/20120323-SMLEMannligher2.jpg.html)

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/20120323-SMLEMannligher.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/20120323-SMLEMannligher.jpg.html)

Swiss girl;

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/20120418_160907_zps6723c45f.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/20120418_160907_zps6723c45f.jpg.html)

Hungarian shorty;

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/20121212_Steyer958x56Hungarian4_zpsf2f7187f.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/20121212_Steyer958x56Hungarian4_zpsf2f7187f.jpg.ht ml)

[W.R.Buchanan]

FFOD/Mick: Yes that scope will need to be rezeroed!

Your Parker Hale rifle is a "#4 Custom." and is a pretty desirable rifle as far as PH Enfield Based Rifles go, and definitely a nice shooter.

My gun shown above started as a "PH Standard Sporter" which essentially was a#1 or #4 with the handguard and front sight protector removed and the Fore end trimmed to behind the barrel band. Usually these had decent barrels, and mine is excellent. I refitted a upper handguard, sight protector, barrel band, added a decent 1907 sling, and then adapted a Redfield Olympic rear sight to it. It is a great shooter. I was going for the L39 target rifle look with mine.

My other gun which started as a #4 Mk1* Long Branch was converted by PH to be a "Deluxe Sporter" which meant it had the barrel cut to 22", a new Front Sight soldered on, and the fore end trimmed back and rounded to be more cosmetically acceptable. The reason the barrels were cut was generally because the muzzle was damaged which usually occurred from over or careless cleaning of the barrel thus ruining the muzzle. Cutting it back got rid of the worn area of the barrel.

Mine had one of the stupid two groove barrels and now it is .35-303 which solved that problem.

See the pics below from a PH Catalog. Yours was probably the nicest one they offered until they started making Mauser based guns. If you blow up the pics you can read the specifications of each model.

Randy

[Four Fingers of Death]

The Deluxe No4 that you picture still uses the standard peep sight, mine has a Williams folding open sight). I remember looking at one of these in the 70s and my friend the gun shop owner said that they were manufactured on good actions using new barrels, sights and stocks. This was just before PH bought out the Midland Sporting rifles using Springfield bolts that PH acquired a warehouse full of after the war.

They were $175 from memory, which was a lot of money, but new rifles were expensive at the time. I couldn't afford one so passed, only to find this one which appeared unfired in 2005. It came from a collection which included many military rifles (of which I ended up with a few (minty P14 fatboy, albiet a repaired stock, 1924 .303 SMLE No1 Mk111 (no star, issued to a country cadet unit as new) in excellent condition and a few others that I can't remember.

I wish mine had the peep sight as I have a spare Singer Sight downstairs ready to give the kiss of life to a battle sighted No4! HaHa!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Mick: the "#4Custom" model had a Williams Open Rear Sight and probably had a new barrel as well.

Both mine,, the Standard and Deluxe were the cheapies I think they were priced at $75 and $100US when the Custom was $175. They both had the Mk2 L shaped Peep Sights with 300 and 600 yards apertures. I bought a Ladder Sight for my Long gun when I refurbished it, but changed it out for a Redfield Olympic on a mount I made. I repeats a little better than the WWII ladder sight.

That gun looks like this now. See pics and the other one has Boyd's furniture and is a work in progress.

Randy

[Four Fingers of Death]

As you can see, they have really done a number on the PH, shown next to a standard No4;

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/ParkerHaleNo4Sporter9.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/ParkerHaleNo4Sporter9.jpg.html)

To improve the Singer Sight, we drill through the sight so that a grub screw can be placed on the detent, allowing it to be tightened up. Which makes a huge difference.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Wow: they did get serious with that one!

Randy

[Frank46]

I've a Long Branch #4 MKI* (think I got that right) that is a Parker Hale sporter. Two groove bbl at 22" with a PH ramp taking the enfield style sight blades wood was cut back and butt plate is the older brass one. Haven't shoot it yet but should be a shooter. Been thinking about getting a commercial rear sight rather than using the issued sight ladder. Frank

[Four Fingers of Death]

If you have the Singer sight or pop up ladder sight, I think short of a target peep sight, you'd be hard pressed to improve on it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I've a Long Branch #4 MKI* (think I got that right) that is a Parker Hale sporter. Two groove bbl at 22" with a PH ramp taking the enfield style sight blades wood was cut back and butt plate is the older brass one. Haven't shoot it yet but should be a shooter. Been thinking about getting a commercial rear sight rather than using the issued sight ladder. Frank

Frank: My Long Branch was the same gun as yours when I started out. except it had the L shaped Mk2 rear sight with 300,600 yard apertures. Mine had an aluminum Butt Plate and was finished in a maroonish color.

Here's a not so good before picture. But pretty sure it's the same gun as your is. PH Deluxe Sporter. See catalog Pics in post #33.

Randy

[Earlwb]

I do have a old Siamese Mauser that I sporterized many years ago. When I was a young, I used the stock rifle for Elk hunting and some deer hunting in Arizona. I actually bought several rifles at the time. You could mail order them diriect to your home as they used a obsolete cartridge that no one sold of course. The one I sporterized uses 8x50R cartridges. I didn't check the other ones as to if they used the 8x52R or not. I had plans to use one for a 45-70 conversion. But I never got around to doing it. Since the rifle worked well for shooting I figured I didn't need to convert it. I used the iron sights at the time as I didn't trust scopes yet. I liked the slide cover for the action as we would get ice and sleet in the mountains and everyone else's rifles would sieze up from the ice. But not mine. A couple of guys had expensive scopes that were supposed to be nitrogen filled and anti-fog. Well their scopes fogged up on them anyway. Thus why I wasn't enthused about using a scope at the time. I made my own cartridge cases and loaded them myself as no one sold ammo for a Siamese Mauser of course.

Anyway, eventually around 1987 or so, I went with a long eye relief scope as I trusted scopes more then. I also got a better Monte Carlo type of stock for it too. I fitted and finished the stock at that time too. The stock was circa 1987 vintage too. I don't know if they still make them or not anymore. Anyway the rifle is reasonably accurate, not any worse than the low cost bolt action modern rifles, at least enough for my hunting. I do have better rifles nowadays, so it doesn't get used anymore. It works better with the heavier weight bullets though, it didn't do as well with the lighter weight bullets.

The last time I was shooting it at the range, I asked my wife if she wanted to have a go at it and she refused. She was watching the recoil effects on me when I fired it and she thought that it looked very painful. I thought it was pretty mild myself. But looks can be deceiving.

[Four Fingers of Death]

That is one homely looking rifle, but if put a lot of meat in the freezer, so a valued part of your family. It earnt it's keep over the years.

[Earlwb]

Yeah, it definitely earned its keep. We had more meat than we knew what to do with it all.

I also wasn't enthused about having a super fancy expensive high end rifle. I remember some of the guys would prop their expensive rifle up against a tree. Then the wind would blow and the tree would move and the rifle fell down breaking their scope. Their nice expensive rifles did not have back up iron sights on them. Or they scrambled through the dense brush only to scratch up their nice rifle. So with my cheap mil-surp rifles, I wasn't worried about the scratches, dings, etc. The rifles were already beat up to start with.

I thought it was a great deal. The rifles were $24.95 each as parts guns back then when I bought them. So it worked out well at the time. My other deer rifle was a 7.65 Argentine Mauser too. My mother bought it at a pawn shop for me for $25.00. I was too young to buy it for myself at the time. I used it a lot for hunting until I got the Siamese Mauser. We could more or less hunt year round back then. We'd hunt rabbits, in between different hunting seasons. When out Quail hunting we'd watch the signs for deer, etc. Then when deer season came out we knew where to go look and get setup to get one. Way back then Dove season was great. On the first day at dawn, you could hear the shotguns going off everywhere around us.

[Earlwb]

This might be pushing the pre-war requirement for this thread. But my ugly old Japanese Arisaka had a interesting life. I do not know for sure when it was made though, it could be before the war. When I got in a few of the rifles years ago as parts guns, I took one to the gunsmith to get it re-barreled and chambered for the .220 Swift cartridge. But the gunsmith just happened to have a .22-250 Ackly Improved chamber reamer already and the Ack Imp version is about the same as the 220 Swift, so I went with it instead. It has the advantage in that I could fire form 22-250's in it if I ran out of reloads too. Now then the gunsmith just happened to have a .22 barrel that he screwed up by machining a little too much off the barrel to fit another customers gun, so he sold me the barrel real cheap. So I wound up getting the action converted to .22-250 Ack Imp for a lot less than I expected to. I put a new stock on the rifle and drilled and tapped it for a scope mount. At the range it was incredible, I could make one ragged small hole at 100 yards with it. I used it for varmint hunting quite a bit. Prairie Dogs, rats, etc. I don't know what brand or make that barrel is, but it is a awesome barrel though. Whoever made it makes or made super nice accurate barrels.

[Four Fingers of Death]

An old mate of mine had an Arisaka that he managed to smuggle back home after WW2. It had a pretty ordinary barrel apparently, having been souvinered off a deap Jap soldier in the jungle of Borneo at the end of the war. He used it for hunting and feeding his family, reloading the Jap rounds he got with the rifle until they all gave up the ghost from corrosion and use. He cobbled up reloading tools on his small farm allotment. After a few years, he had a good year and had the rifle re=barrelled to 303/25, a popular round in Australia in the 50s. He fed his family with that rifle until I saw him and he showed me the rifle. It was worn shiny and there was hardly any rifling for severa inches at either end of the barrel it has seen so many shots through it. He was past hunting and had promised the rifle to a nephew. I saw it a few years after he booked out, the nephew had rebarrelled it (303/25 still), reblued it and put a reasonably well grained walnut sporter stock on it and a Leupold 2-7x scope (my suggestion). It still gets the freezer filled for the nephew's family.

[Earlwb]

That is a great story, I like it. I hope that when I pass away that my son keeps my guns around to use too. A long time ago, I had given my 7.65 Argentine rifle and its reloading gear to my brother in law. But he didn't want to reload for it and complained that the ammo was too expensive to buy, so he sold the gun to someone else. I don't think that he really ever replaced it with something better either. I think he discovered that hunting was more work than he wanted to do.

[Four Fingers of Death]

That is a great story, I like it. I hope that when I pass away that my son keeps my guns around to use too. A long time ago, I had given my 7.65 Argentine rifle and its reloading gear to my brother in law. But he didn't want to reload for it and complained that the ammo was too expensive to buy, so he sold the gun to someone else. I don't think that he really ever replaced it with something better either. I think he discovered that hunting was more work than he wanted to do.

You would think if he had any style, he would have returned it all to you. Worth it to find out where he is lacking. I hope he looks after your sister better than that.