Best Silencer for the money.

[6bg6ga]

I always try to stay away for the usage of the word "BEST" but I just couldn't help myself here. Iowa having passed a law allowing silencers has me thinking about the purchase of the animal. I have a Trust thread in play so I understand the need for a trust when purchasing a suppressor. Having said this ......what are the good brands? Do I want a screw on device that threads to existing threaded barrel AKA AR-15 300 Blackout? Second question.... having overheard a recent sales person tell a customer that a 30 cal suppressor will work fine on a .223 how much reduction would be heard using a 30 cal suppressor on a 22 cal?

[Ola]

The most effective silencer (compared to weight) is A-Tec Carbon. http://www.a-tec.no/carbon

But for AR-style rifle I would buy this one made out of steel: http://www.aseutra.fi/s-series-sl5-bl-suppressor

[brtelec]

I have a YHM 30 cal suppressor and as stated, it is more effective than the 223 suppressor on my 223. Suppressors are just mufflers and they all work. You can buy much lighter ones, you can buy simpler to attach and remove and you can spend tons of money. You need to just honestly decide what you are going to use it for and then choose accordingly. The one thing you will find with suppressors is there is no end to opinions about them based on mostly nothing. It is like asking if you should buy a Camaro or a Mustang.

[Ola]

Suppressors are just mufflers and they all work.... The one thing you will find with suppressors is there is no end to opinions about them based on mostly nothing. It is like asking if you should buy a Camaro or a Mustang. That is absolutely not true. And some opinions are based on wast experience.

[wordsmith]

I don't want to get into a "best brands" discussion, because it gets pretty subjective. My experience with the 5 suppressors that I own is that most of the offerings in the US are high quality, and generally you're paying for weight and size reductions as prices go up.

I would strongly suggest for your 300 BLK AR that you utilize a quick detachable option. They cost more, and if poorly designed, can cause issues. But again most of the ones you'll be choosing from are proven platforms, and the quick detach is worth every penny when you have to live with them every day, on an AR. Bolt actions are much more flexible in my opinion.

On your .30 cal question, I have three of mine I'm using this way, such that they fit on smaller caliber rifles, including .223 and 6.8SPC. In short, they work well. Objective measurements have shown a 3-6 decibel increase in loudness over a caliber-specific can (e.g. 223), so you give up some performance. Some manufacturers are starting to address this with replaceable end caps that close this gap considerably if you opt to put on a .223 end cap on your .30 caliber can before firing. In my view, the .30 caliber can as a multi-caliber device works very well, with the convenience and economy more than making up for any increase in loudness.

[Gunor]

Cast boolits, lube, PC, and suppressors - there needs to be some thought given to those issues.

User serviceable can?

I wish I had answers - I would just do a little research.

[wordsmith]

Gunor - good points. I've successfully used coated cast boolits in my non-serviceable .30 cans, with no appreciable lead accumulation based on borescope inspection and monitoring weight gain on an accurate scale. The key is either PC'ing or Hi-Tek'ing. I use Hi-Tek personally, but my understanding is both work well. IF subsonic, those are great choices. If you're going to push it beyond those limits, I believe it's gets much more difficult to prevent leading, and requires a user-serviceable can.

[brtelec]

As far as effectiveness I agree there are all degrees of suppression. Some work much better than others but they all work. If I shot people for a living and the sound level was critical. Then money would be no object. If you are buying a toy or using it to hunt and not drive your neighbors crazy then there is no reason to pump tons of money into it unless money is no object for you.

[Artful]

Well, I'll have to wade in - I own more than a few suppressors - well more than half a dozen, does that make me addicted?

My advise at this point is to look for just 3 suppressors.

First should be a 22LR suppressor. It must be user serviceable.
22LR are dirty cartridges and you have to clean your can's for
optimum performance. Look for a diameter that will not interfere
with your sights, some can's are just too large to see over.
This would be my first suggested can purchase to you,
because you can see the advantage of suppression of noise so much.

2nd would be a good pistol can for the largest caliber you intend to ever silence.
I purchased several 9mm cans and should have bought my Ti-Rant 45 first
but it hadn't yet been invented - ah well.
Get one that you can clean. You can use the pistol can for 22LR if you wanted to start there.
Light weight - preferably with an Inertial Decoupler
(Neilson Device) which will allow use with a browning tilt barrel.
It's good if you can put on differently threaded pistons for diffent calibers.

3rd would be a light weight cleanable 30 caliber rifle suppressor.
Rifle rounds suppress but full power always is going to be with the sonic crack.
You need to have it be cleanable if your shooting cast boolits.
I have a Cyclone which is rated for full auto rifle fire
but you can't clean it and having to run solvents thru it to clean it is a pain.

There are other specialized suppressors for use on things like SMG,
or Wet use where you have a very small suppressor but
have to add ablative (grease, water, wire pull gel, etc) every magazine or two.

I have friends with the quick Connect suppressors - I use direct thread
- I seem to have less trouble with my hosts and purchases than they do,
which is why I recommend direct thread.

As to Manufacturer
- I don't use Gemtech - seen too much drama with them
- I don't use AWC, too much drama with me.
- I do have cans from AAC - recommend
- I do also recommend Silencerco, Liberty, Yankee Hill, Tactical Innovations

Do YOUR homework - what's the perfect can for me may not be for you.
Check out YOUTUBE - has some very good video's just remember that most
sound recording devices will alter loud sounds
so you won't get a true experience by watching video.

Let me give you a few thoughts...

Way back when the Cyclone came out, I looked at a bunch of 30 caliber cans.
At the time I had friends with beltfed 308's so I knew I wanted a full auto rated can,
I also knew as a reloader I wanted a can that worked well with full power supersonic and subsonic reduced loads
- the Cyclone I chose because it was in the top three in both categories
the only thing it didn't do was take apart for cleaning. Sometime you have to compromise.

Last year when a friend came to me looking at getting into a 30 caliber suppressor (oh and he wanted a 223 can, but after shooting my 30 cal on his 223 and comparing it against my 223 suppressor he gave that up and went with just one rifle suppressor).

I gave him my above advise but he didn't want a pistol or 22LR can
- we looked and found a small shop making 30 caliber titanium cans for reasonable price,
which it weighed in less than half the weight of my cyclone (his is 16 1/2 oz)
and it can be taken apart to clean.

After the "extreme" wait (about 4 months) he got his approval and
picked up the can from his maker. He was happy with how it sounded
and after shooting some we took it apart and he saw how really simple it was.
Now he has made himself a 22LR Can (cone baffle aka freeze plugs)
and he's thinking about making a pistol can after we played with my Ti-Rant.

But the thing he found out that made him sort of upset was that almost ALL the parts
on this "professionally built can" were actually from the DIY Solvent trap suppliers
with just minor work done by the local SOT.

He saved over half the price when he built his own 22LR can by just ordering
the parts from SD Tactial and carefully drilling a few holes himself !
( http://www.sdtacticalarms.com/product_index.asp )

Do a search here - I've posted on many threads on suppressors.
There's lots of good websites about suppressors as well.
And the fun part is that there's always new and improved products
coming out -
Remember buying an NFA item is like optic's you get
what you pay for and cry once and be truly happy or buy stuff and
wish you had the money back to get what you wanted in the first place.

As for using PC or plated for subsonic - works pretty well.
If you have a cleanable can you will be able to use lubed just fine.

[Artful]

The most effective silencer (compared to weight) is A-Tec Carbon. http://www.a-tec.no/carbon

But for AR-style rifle I would buy this one made out of steel: http://www.aseutra.fi/s-series-sl5-bl-suppressor

If only we as individuals in America could import suppressors, But such is not the case.

[dk17hmr]

I use my Thunderbeat Ultra 7 30 caliber on my 22-250 & it works well enough that I have givin up on the idea of buying a 22 caliber centerfire can. I will likely buy another 30 caliber though for my 223s, 300blk, and 6.8s.

Rimfire and 30 caliber covers all the rifles and handguns I want to suppress, I wouldn't mind having a 338 suppressor but I so very rarely shoot my lapua there is no point in tying up $2000 in it.

Your tax stamp is the same if you make one out of a maglite or buy one made out of titanium.....I have a really good idea which one would last longer and be a better use of your stamp money.

[dk17hmr]

If only we as individuals in America could import suppressors, But such is not the case.

And with a carbon fiber tube it sounds disposable. Given that the tube is the serialized part I wouldn't want one here.

[Artful]

Just some of my favorite video's
https://www.youtube.com/embed/a0cMuEpVOuQ

https://www.youtube.com/embed/epK70OzQgKg

https://www.youtube.com/embed/YXc0rm6dzVs

https://www.youtube.com/embed/e4KfGPM-cJc

https://www.youtube.com/embed/DrintWN43jc

https://www.youtube.com/embed/JOsXN-n3yf8

Oh, and probably should mention Decibels - db's
It's the measurement of sound pressure aka Noise
Less is better - it's what your buying the suppressor for so if it doesn't make it under 140 db (hearing safe)
then you don't want it. Almost all of the new ones do.
And just to further confuse you db's are a logarithmic scale so to double the sound pressure you just have to increase the db's a little to get a big difference.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d1/dd/b8/d1ddb8e514a46a41764be4fe1d926f01.jpg

Any ringing in your ears is sign it's too loud and damaging your hearing. And it's a pressure (db) vs exposure time - 150 db pulse will damage you but so will 8 hours at 85 db.

[Iowa Fox]

6bg6ga what do you estimate the total cost to jump into supression including trust, stamp and other hidden fees?

[RugerFan]

Check out Coast Gun suppressors (http://www.coastalgun.com/). They had a good write up in Smalls Arms Review magazine and seem decently priced.

[Artful]

I will likely buy another 30 caliber though for my 223s, 300blk, and 6.8s.

I wouldn't mind having a 338 suppressor but I so very rarely shoot my lapua there is no point in tying up $2000 in it.
So instead of a 30 get a 338 cal can for your second.



Your tax stamp is the same if you make one out of a maglite or buy one made out of titanium.....I have a really good idea which one would last longer and be a better use of your stamp money.

True, it's $200 ante to play - but as far as Steel vs Titanium vs Aluminum vs Carbon Fiber - if you design your can with the materials in mind they should all be good. As far as Maglite Aluminum tubes - the DIY sell Aluminum Tubing with threads cut the same as Maglite's caps.

[6bg6ga]

Iowa FoxI'm going to estimate a cost of $1500.00 for the suppressor, trust, and tax stamp. To brake that down I would guess $1000.00 plus tax for the suppressor, $225 for the tax stamp and the balance for the trust. I'm under the assumption that one can get a trust thru on of the online law firms that are advertised. Also considering filing a BATF form 1 and paying the stamp and making my own suppressor. I assume the cost of making my own will be about $100.00 and that will include the aluminum bar stock and tube and one adaptor.

[WFO2]

My omega was about 1100 for 30 cal .

[6bg6ga]

WFO2 did that include the tax stamp and trust?

[762 shooter]

Form 1 Tax stamp = $200
Trust info = $50
D size Titanium tube and end cap, stainless muzzle device and thread protector = $250 +or- from SDTA
Preformed freeze plugs from Evilbay = $20

$520 ish

AFTER you get possession of your tax stamp drill a hole in the end cap and through the freeze plugs and assemble. I also bought the jig for drilling the freeze plugs. $20 and well worth it. I think the suppressor weighs 16 oz.

I had to cut a tubing spacer to make the end caps pull everything up tight. Serviceable 308. I cooked the tube with Hi Temp ceramic header paint. It sounds comparable to a Thunderbeast. I also bought a adapter from SDTSA to use it on a 1/2x28 thread. It does what I need it to do. Full power 7.62x51 sounds quieter than an un-suppressed 22.

I am not a lawyer or an operator or a machinist. But I am legal and my Google-Fu is adequate.

A trust still has advantages until the middle of July. Then responsible trustees will have to do pics, fingerprints, and background checks.

762

PS: Forgot to mention that the Form 1 tax stamp application can be E-filed with the ATF and paid with a credit card. Wait time 3 months to 6 months.

[Lloyd Smale]

isn't it illegal to put a .30 cal can on a .22 rifle. I know its illegal to drill out a 22 can to use on a 30. I thought they were registered as to there caliber.

[frank505]

Hi lloyd, the can is not registered to any firearm. Use according to what it fits. I need to figure out another one for thirty on down that's light weight. Very useful attachment and guaranteed to make you giggle

[farmerjim]

Duct tape
165351

[Lloyd Smale]

not registered to a specific firearm but it is registered as to caliber. I would have liked to drill out my 223 so it would fit my 30s too but its illegal to change it.
Hi lloyd, the can is not registered to any firearm. Use according to what it fits. I need to figure out another one for thirty on down that's light weight. Very useful attachment and guaranteed to make you giggle

[Artful]

not registered to a specific firearm but it is registered as to caliber. I would have liked to drill out my 223 so it would fit my 30s too but its illegal to change it.

Correct - you can't legally change the suppressor without filing another $200 form 1 request as it will change the smaller caliber can to take a larger caliber bullet. But if you have a larger caliber can you can shoot the caliber it was designed for and anything smaller thru it legally.

Look at some of the you tube videos from suppressor makers to see that reduction is still pretty darn good with a larger caliber can shooting subcaliber munitions thru it.

[Smoke4320]

look at the Yankee Hill Phantom ..one version uses rifle mounted flash hiders that are spring loaded and toothed . Plus the suppressor threads are thick flat lathe type threads.. The plus to this is the flash hiders are available in different thread patterns to fit different calibers
you buy hiders caliber specific and leave them on each gun..
makes shooting different calibers with 1 308 suppressor real easy
and yes we have runs tests with 3 to 4 shooters using YHM 308 (shooting 223, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 x 55) verses several caliber specific suppressors and so far no one has said they can HEAR and real difference

[Artful]

Oh, I hear a difference - my larger volume 30 cal can makes a deeper tonal quality. As far as decibel level without a calibrated quick response meter you really can't trust the human ear.

[Handloader109]

You asked how much, the suppressor is jus to the start:-)
$875 for my octane 45, (plus $75 for the piston to fit my 9mm)
$200 for the stamp
$75 for the trust
$1225 so far.
Now $150 for my g17 barrel, plus $50 for throating
New gun, ppx with threaded barrel $300 local
New 22 for my wife (PPQ) $399
Adapter for it $20(octane can be easily taken apart to clean, one main reason for me selecting it. Can shoot dirty with no problems) friend has one that we've shot and it works great from my standpoint, no hearing protection needed at all..... But I'd love another and haven't gotten this one yet.

And that is the reason I got a 45 caliber suppressor, I can use for anything smaller

[WFO2]

No that was just for the can and the stamp . I went to a lawyer and payed 250 .00 for a trust to be made for me . I figured that I wanted professional coverage and to make sure that it was legal and bullet proof . I just did not get a warm fuzzy doing an electronic on online .

[6bg6ga]

If I understand correctly you can use a 30 cal suppressor on smaller calibers and from what I have read I am told there can be a 6db difference when using a 30 cal suppressor on a .223/5.56. Others have mentioned on other forums and other company web sites that the 30 cal suppressor are more effective on .223/5.56 than on 30 cal. So, no one really knows but everyone is an expert once again. You cannot modify a .223 suppressor to shoot 30 cal thru it but you can shoot .223 thru a 30 cal suppressor legally. Since I do have the capability to do sound measurements because of my occupation I will be coming back to this thread with some DB measurements that will be accurate when I have my own suppressor. Still don't know if I'm going to obtain a form 1 from BATF or march down to the local gun shop having hocked the dog and robbed the pop bottle stash. With respect to the trusts... talking to a lawyer I am told the trusts you can purchase on line are just as good as the ones you have made up by your local lawyer. Not a lawyer so I don't know if this is true. Once again too much government BS. Just take the $200 stamp and let it go at that. Make it easy to trade suppressors just as you would a firearm. No need for the extra drama or the threats of 10 years in jail just make it simple. After all its the money they are really after.

[6bg6ga]

Ok, a question to the experts..... I assume you can purchase a suppressor caliber specific? So with 30 cal purchase one .308 capable vers 300 blackout?

[Artful]

You can get suppressors that are restricted to only 300 blackout subsonic loads, these are usually mult use pistol suppressor designs.

If you buy a suppressor rated for 308 you can of course use 300 blackout sub and supersonic thru it.

The difference is in the construction, design and materials. My 308 can is all welded steel - When I do my next can it will be Steel tube with Steel blast chamber but additional baffles out of lighter materials (Titanium or aluminum), I have known some 223 cans that were made out of aluminum and they worked for the application as intended but I wouldn't put it on a SBR 223.

The thing is you have to take into account the pressures you are harnessing and redirecting - the pressure on a can mounted on a 24 inch 308 barrel is different than the pressure it would get from a 16 1/2 inch 308 barrel.

Here's some illustration of what I'm talking about
http://ar15barrels.com/tech/223vs308.gif
223 vs 308

http://i39.tinypic.com/1tlaap.jpg
243 win

http://oi55.tinypic.com/14icx28.jpg
300 win mag

http://www.realguns.com/images/prsrpltchrt.jpg
45-70 Govt

Notice the pressure curves, not dissimilar.
- but the thing you have to ask yourself is what is the volume of gas at that pressure - the 223 small compared to 308 which is small compared to 300 win mag - the large bore 45-70 is more like a pistol cartridge in that the volume of the bore quickly drops the pressure but the overall volume is higher.

People have threaded 45-70 Marlins and used the Ti-Rant 45 pistol suppressor on them
- it's NOT recommended by the maker and is considered abuse.

You have to think about the totality of the work to be done by the suppressor.

[6bg6ga]

How about suppressors and accuracy? Is one brand of suppressor less apt to change accuracy?

[Lloyd Smale]

I have a yhm for my 223. It doesn't change accuracy to any measurable level. But then its not a real quiet can either. I would guess that a quieter can would be more apt to effect accuracy.

[jmorris]

I have built more than I have bought. I have had a lathe for decades and formed my trust with quicken will maker. My bank doesn't charge me to notorize and I have used mostly "drop" from paying jobs for materials, although Wicks aircraft does sell material by the foot if I wanted something special. All of my form 1 cans combined, not counting stamps, have less money invested in them that the least expensive "store bought" can I own.

Of the ones I have bought I was most impressed with AAC's centerfire rifle cans and the original Checkmate .22lr suppressor is nice too. Not as quite as my form 1 .22 can but easier to clean and the QD is nice.

[Artful]

Accuracy with symmetrical baffle designs is usually increased over the same firearm without a suppressor. Wiped cans degrade accuracy but most wiped cans are designed for up close wet firing where accuracy isn't really an issue to most people. Asymmetrical baffle designs may or may not affect accuracy - depends upon the implementation.

[762 shooter]

And...... Recoil is reduced.

And...... Velocity increases slightly.

762

[Geezer in NH]

not registered to a specific firearm but it is registered as to caliber. I would have liked to drill out my 223 so it would fit my 30s too but its illegal to change it.You can go down in caliber because you did not change the cans caliber.

Drilling out your 22 can to 30 is manufacturing. That's the BATFE stance