Shell holder that locks case head

[Porterhouse]

Is there any product or method that locks case in position and never let them turn?
I'm trying to ream inside case but unless I use once (or more) fired and unsized case, the body of reaming die doesn't grab it and case just keep turnig=reaming is impossible. The case I'm talking here is 284 Win., same rim diameter as 30-06, 308 and others.

[VHoward]

http://www.titanreloading.com/284-win-lee-case-length-gaugeshell-holder?search=90129 Shell holder and case gage. Comes together. You buy a set like this for each caliber you need to trim.
http://www.titanreloading.com/lee-case-trimmer-cutter-lock-stud?search=90110 Case trimmer and lock stud. One time purchase. Works in conjunction with the first linked item. Cases will be held securely for what you want to do.

[dudel]

Sinclair trimmer (and reamer) locks the case.

[lightman]

Sinclair and a few other companies that sell neck turning tools offer a locking stud and shell holder like you want. The Lee lock stud and shell holder is cheaper. The ones from Sinclair and PMA are a larger diameter and easier to grip/tighten.

[Porterhouse]

Well, what I'm trying to do is not neck turning. I need to make some straight wall cases out of 284 Win. and I have case forming dies, including inside case BODY reamer. However, the reaming die only grab the case mouth, if I use NEW cases and they keep slipping. When I use fired & unsized case, no problem as the die grabs expanded body. So I thought if there is some tool or way to secure the body onto shell holder and shell holder to the press.
Only other solution I can think of is to use only fired cases but the problem is, I don't own a gun that chambered for 284! Buying a new gun just to make new cases to expand is, in my opinion, too expensive.

[country gent]

This may work for you. put a single layer of thin vinal tape ( clear book tape shipping tape) inside die . you want it as far into the die as you can get it and edges to just match nicely no overlap or gaps. this may give you the slight size reduction and some grip that you need. Sounds like you trying to make wildey cases here. Be sure and clean all the lube from the die so tape gets a real good bond. The nice thing is tape can be removed soaking die in acetone or alchlol and a cleaning brush. I would put a tape ring in the die base up 3/4" or so and see how that works. The plastic vinal tapes should compress to grip and release decently also.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Lee's simple Trimming Tool has a shell holder that locks the case head. it is about $6. Call Titan Reloading one of the sponsors here.

I did a search for a cross reference chart for shell holders and found this. Well worth printing out.

https://www.grafs.com/uploads/technical-resource-pdf-file/15.pdf

It has virtually every cartridge known to man on 9 pages!

Randy

[shooter93]

Forester case trimmer with the neck reamer . You may also want to check with Buffalo Arms. A few years back with bought a bunch of 284basic brass for a 416 project. It's a straight cylinder with the 284 head.

[Porterhouse]

Thanks guys!
Country gent, I tried the method you suggested. Kinda worked but I realized what I've been trying to achieve is fundamentally wrong. That is, if I ream inside case body when it's brand new, it will create unnecessary thin and uneven case wall.
The sequences of forming this straight cases are;
1st, cut off unneeded potion of body and neck.
2nd, run through straighten/expander die, which is like loading die with expander plug but it only expand 1/3" from case mouth, leaving mid point and the near head of case as is.
3rd, set the case with reamer die which is like sizing die and then insert the reamer from top and ream I side wall all the way down to the bottom.
4th, trim to the length.
Sooo, if case is new and smaller than reamer die's diameter AND, lock the case with shell holder, it will nothing but make mid body part thinner than the mouth portion. Follow me?
I guess I need the case that has been shot, and fully expanded for the forming dies dimension, no matter what.
Shooter 93, that's good info! I will call them tomorrow.
Oh, by the way, it is kinda like .475 Wildey but trying to make it bit longer to achieve between 480 Ruger/Linebaugh performance.

[W.R.Buchanan]

PH: a reamer will always follow the hole it is introduced into. The main Problem with Neck Reaming Tools is that they "Theoretically" should "Bore" the hole on a new centerline that will coincide with the OD of the case neck. This is supposedly due to the die holding the case and the reamer in alignment.

However what actually takes place is the reamer follows the hole's centerline not the intended path because it wants to take the same amount off all sides of the hole due to the chamfers on the lead end of the reamer which act like a funnel in reverse.

It is possible for the system to work however it relies totally on the Reamer starting in the hole as guided by the die so as to create a new off center cut, (IE taking more off one side than the other) and as soon as the cut is established to the margins of the reamer, (which guide the reamer at it progresses thru the hole) then it will follow that path.

The failing is not in the tools design but in the operation of it,,, as the vast majority of Non Machinists will simply jam the reamer into the hole and turn it thru and not take care to start the reamer correctly. The end result is a larger hole that is not concentric to the OD of the case mouth any more than the original hole was.

The process of outside neck turning is the only real successful simple way to generate a perfectly concentric inside and outside diameter case neck. That process uses a pilot that fits in the neck and turns the outside around that centerline.

An even better way is to just buy Lapua Brass which is already right to begin with.

Randy

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Randy nailed it. Great info!

[W.R.Buchanan]

PH: After re reading your post on what you are trying to accomplish, I have concluded that there is no reason to ream anything. Just cut the case to length and be done with it. You will run it into the expander die and seat the bullet just like any other pistol round.

Then when you fire it, it will be fire formed to your chamber.

You don't need to ream anything. All you need to do is cut, load and shoot.

If you ream the inside of the case before it is fire formed all you are doing is making the case walls thinner and thus weaker, which with a cartridge in the pressure range you are seeking is going in exactly the wrong direction!

Randy

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Maybe I am not completely understanding whats going on, but can't the wall thickness be too thick to when he seats a bullet (larger than chamber diameter?).

[W.R.Buchanan]

I guess it could but, with the info we've gotten so far it's kind of hard to tell. Whatever size the chamber is, in whatever gun we are supposedly talking about, will dictate what the case wall thickness can be.

If it's a new cartridge then he can make the chamber whatever size he wants, and making it so that you don't have to do a bunch of needless operations to make cases seems like the prudent thing to do. And especially when they are gong to be well past $1.00 each for just the blanks.

It sounds like this thing is going to be a semi auto (Rebated Rim) of some type, as I can see no reason why you would use that case for a revolver or bolt gun.

When making cases for anything the less you have to do to them the better off both you and the case will be. You will ultimately have to fire form the case, and so the less that goes into the first batch the better off you are.

Also if it is an autoloader, finding those cases after you shoot them can be problematic. With the expense $ going into each one would need to be finding each one.

I have done a similar project on a smaller level with converting 9MM cases to 9x18 Makarov. These cases must be deprimed before you can trim to length with a Lee Trim tool. (easiest way I found in the shop.) Then to load they get ran thru the expander die, primed, boolit seated and crimped. Then you get to fire form them,,,, but since the possible uses for these are pretty limited, picking up the brass to load it again is almost a push, so the load for Fire Forming needs to be the same as you would load for any other purpose since in most cases you will never find all of the spent cases. 9MM brass is virtually free, and reloadable 9x18 brass is not free by any means, so you are trading the trimming operation for the cost of the cases which is heavily in your favor monetarily,,, Depending on what your time is worth.

The operative point here is "time versus money." Unless you are a complete moron your time is worth something, so you have to decide what it is really worth to you and go from there.

In the case of the OP he is doing something completely new so there is a learning curve and he has to figure out the most efficient way to make what he needs because it doesn't exist already. In that case you have to do whatever it takes and then refine the process next time and subsequent times there after.

Only then will you "maybe" achieve Nirvana.

Randy

[Porterhouse]

Randy is totally right about case strength and minimum operation and stuff. And, as he suspected, this will be for auto loader. The main issue is the magazine. If I don't ream, it would be too fat and the magazine won't take them.

[W.R.Buchanan]

If it's that close you will probably have feeding problems anyway. A few thou difference in cartridge dia. not allowing the mag to accept a cartridge sounds like you are marginal to begin with. If you are marginal to begin with you have no room for other problems that can and will arise.

Would you consider telling us exactly what you are trying to do so we can maybe tell you if it's going to work or not?

Lots of guys here that have been down this road before. Might be able to save you some grief.

Randy

[Porterhouse]

The round is nothing but slightly lengthened 475Wildey. The gun however is not. Sorry, I can't mention about the gun any more than this at this point. This is an on going project and hopefully I can write up full report when it's done or close to it.
I have tested the magazines with 475Wildey factory rounds and found out no issues. So, as long as the new rounds stay same outside diameter as Wildy,I figure they'll work.
Yes, it's marginal but I am taking the risk!

[country gent]

If you need to ream you can expand oversized a few thousandths over sized and to needed depth ( would require a special expander plug made for die. then run into you ream die and ream. You might have to use a slightly smaller decimil reamer to allow for the case tapers though.

[W.R.Buchanan]

If you shove a .475 Wildey Expander into the case mouth it will expand the case to the proper ID to seat a boolit. The only thing that can hurt you is if the wall thickness of the .284 brass is significantly thicker than the Wildey Brass,,, which is doubtful. There should be about .010 difference between the OD of a Loaded Round and the ID of the Chamber.

Rifle brass does tend to have tapered case walls which get thicker the further down the case you go. You could cut a case in half lengthwise and see if the case walls inside are tapered very much in the area where the boolit seats.

How long is your finished Case supposed to be?

If the case walls start to taper before the bullet is to seated to full depth then Reaming the hole a small amount deeper might be a decent fix. However I would not consider doing this until I actually loaded some and had a good look at the amount the case bulged when the boolit was seated. If it didn't bulge at all, or only bulged a few thou then I'd see if it feeds in the gun. If it fits the new chamber you would just Fire Form the cases and be done with it.

The less you have to do to make the cases the better off both you and the brass will be.

There is some risk inherent in any adventure, otherwise it wouldn't be an adventure.

Going into Uncharted Territory is an adventure, Going to the Grocery Store is not.

Randy