Lyman 358495

[sealer]

I bought a Lyman 358495 back in the winter because I have been wanting to try out a 141 gr. wadcutter in a few different 38's. Once I got done casting and weighed them out, they weighed in at 150 gr. It's not what I wanted, I already have 3 other 148 - 150 gr. WC molds.
How do you tell the difference in the 141 and 148 gr. molds from just a picture and/or a brief description on the internet?
Or does anyone have a Lyman / Ideal 141 gr. WC mold to sell me ?
Thanks, Dennis

[fecmech]

The devil is in the details. The 358495 wadcutter is 141 grs when cast of Lyman #2 alloy(5% tin, 5%antimony and 90% lead). When you cast it of WW's or lead it will be heavier. That said it is a very accurate wc along with the H&G #50.

[zubrato]

The Lyman molds have changed over the years. I have an early IDEAL 358495 and casts at ~152gr with wheelweights, a Lyman 358495 that casts 148 with the same alloy, and an H&G 50 that casts 145-146.

The Lyman cherries have changed over time, and I haven't found a 141 gr Wadcutter mold yet, but have been interested in them as well. Looking forward to hearing more from others about wadcutters and history

[Ben]

The devil is in the details. The 358495 wadcutter is 141 grs when cast of Lyman #2 alloy(5% tin, 5%antimony and 90% lead).

When cast from who's mold ? ?

[Hardcast416taylor]

Waaaay back when I shot a lot I had two 4 holers of this mold to use in tandem when casting. They were early made molds. I used straight WW as it was plentiful and usually free to get. My boolets weighed in at or about 150 gr. +/- with both molds. When I started using 50/50 alloy the boolet weight settled at 151 gr. I`ve not cast any of these molds using Lyman #2 alloy to see any difference. I would try different alloy mixes to see how the weights will be with them.Robert

[sealer]

All my other Lyman and H&G molds cast as advertised +/- 2gr except the 358495 and I rarely mix up a batch of Lyman #2 alloy.
Thanks, Dennis

[pill bug]

I've seen a lot of lyman and Ideal 358495 molds over the years, perhaps more than any other in the lyman line up. Any guesses? Could this be the most common mold/bullet combination Lyman ever made?

[fecmech]

When cast from who's mold ? ?
From a 4 cav Lyman mold that I owned personally. From ww's it cast closer to 148-150 grs. I realize Lyman is all over the place with their molds so maybe yours didn't. I don't see any magic in 141 grs at all or any reason to cast a wadcutter of #2 alloy. Just saying I'll bet if the OP casts with his mold and an alloy of 90%PB/5%Sn and 5%SB he'll get pretty close to 141 grs.

[zubrato]

Bump for an update.

Does anyone know the history behind the beginnings of the 358495 and H&G #50? I've tried searching for a few weeks now and haven't come up with anything except that one may have copied another, and seems there's not much to go on besides arguing who copied who.

I can see the evolution of the 358495 towards a bit lighter from my Ideal to Lyman mold, and the older Ideal is strikingly similar to the H&G 50, but on the newer(?) Lyman the bands begin to shrink a little, and the nose is less rounded, shorter. Definitely accounts for the ~4 grains difference I'm seeing.
I can take pictures if anyone is interested to compare the three designs I have on hand.

[SSGOldfart]

You might want to look at a few newer cut versions like NOE, then again you could keep looking for that one individual 358495, that works with your alloy.it would be cheaper to mix small batches of different alloy.Or it might be faster to order a new cut mold.

[TCFAN]

Bump for an update.

Does anyone know the history behind the beginnings of the 358495 and H&G #50? I've tried searching for a few weeks now and haven't come up with anything except that one may have copied another, and seems there's not much to go on besides arguing who copied who.

I can see the evolution of the 358495 towards a bit lighter from my Ideal to Lyman mold, and the older Ideal is strikingly similar to the H&G 50, but on the newer(?) Lyman the bands begin to shrink a little, and the nose is less rounded, shorter. Definitely accounts for the ~4 grains difference I'm seeing.
I can take pictures if anyone is interested to compare the three designs I have on hand.

In the 1958 version of the Hand book of Cast bullets on page 142 under 358495 it says "Same bullet as the 358395 except solid base instead of hollow base".

[zubrato]

Holy cr@p, didn't know the pics would be that huge, sorry guys. Uploaded from phone

I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, but I've been looking for more information regarding design changes & wadcutter history and I'm hoping its relevant to the discussion. If anyone objects I can begin another thread devoted to following wadcutter development

H&G 50 on the left, Lyman 358495 , Ideal 358495 (sized and lubed), Ideal 358495 (as cast)
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160404/b4088afca6b71954461703934ed38f86.jpg
Notice how the older Ideal 358495 has smaller lube grooves, and 2 bands are longer; the 2nd body band, and the bottom band.
Newer Lyman has lube grooves very similar to the H&G 50, and a flat nose.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160404/0f6bdec2361c7e2388d58c59b8355c69.jpg
Notice how the Ideal wadcutter nose is more rounded, and pronounced. the nose punch flattens this some so I included the unsized bullet.
The H&G 50 is not entirely flat nose, however has a very subtle curve.
It looks to me that the Ideal to Lyman wadcutter evolution has taken on more of the H&G #50 shape, groove size and spacing, and band length.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160404/9ec8218056d2df83c3c3d7470cc287ff.jpg


TCFAN: If that's correct then thats a HUGE change, and I'm sure theres a 358395 flat base in someones collection, or waiting to be found. The changes from the 358395 to the 358495 are nothing short of radical.

[mattw]

Silly question from a guy that is new to the wadcutter after 40 years of shooting... Why is only the bottom groove lubed on your bullets?

[rintinglen]

Substantial testing back in the 60's showed that lubing only one groove produced better groups than those produced with more lube on the boolits.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I only lubed the bottom groove of my boolets. As I said I used straight WW for a long time then tried 50/50 alloy. Depending what type of WC shooting you will be doing I loaded 3.5 gr. of either HP-38 or Win. 231 powder with a Win. SP primer for my indoor PPC shooting. I can`t begin to think how many thousands of these I cast and shot over the years.Robert

[Pressman]

The Ideal mold will date back to the introduction of the 38 Special. Without the Ideal handbooks handy I cannot be more specific. Lyman began phasing out the Ideal name around 1960.
Ideal was an independent company till sold to Marlin in 1905-1910. Then it went private again until Lyman bought them in 1926.
So, H&G is the copy of Lyman.
Ken

[brghp]

I have used the 358495 cast from wheel weights with great results. Typically weighing close to 148 grains. Loaded over 3.0 grains Bullseye it shot groups of 1.5 inches at 25 yds from a 6-inch Python.

brghp