Possible issue with Lee Auto drum

[romukom]

New here, I have been lurking for awhile but I feel that this really important to let everyone know to keep an eye of this possible problem for those who have the Lee Auto Drum powder measure. (See Picture).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oaCIqJEWBcs/Vv7oBEtr8CI/AAAAAAAAAk0/fqhdyconBF0WiiNcq7O7kRkui1q2d1OIwCCo/s479-Ic42/IMG_3901.JPG


There have been report that the Auto drum wobbles as the press reaches its full stroke. Mine is not different. The accuracy and consistency was not affected.
However earlier today, I started have less powder thrown. I thought that my expander/ powder through die got loose and started to back out but it was not. I checked everything else and were in correct working order.

As I check everything and cycling the powder measure, I saw that the drum was not fully cycling (about half way). After close look I saw that one of tab was slipping off from the knurl nut causing the drum not to fully cycle. Also, the square block was not fully reaching the top of the slot at full stroke. Luckily I found this issue as I was trying to set a charge and not reloading.

The reason, loose tolerances and soft metal that the drum is made of. The tabs start to flex and stretch; hence the powder measure’s wobble when it cycle. I took a plier and squeeze back the tabs. That alone restored Auto Drum range of movement.

The wobble still there and I knew that eventually will make tabs spread again. So I put a piece of 1/8” zip tie in the opposite tab. Now I don’t have the wobble issue and apparently all the forces are inline with the die.

I am not sure if the zip tie will fix it long term. My next option would be a worm gear hose clamp to permanently hold the tabs in place.
I hope this help if you are having issues.
Thanks.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8lGyoetP8zA/Vv7oBNY8bbI/AAAAAAAAAkw/-NEXc-o76yc-nUW72rqUsKeRylDg6mWFACCo/s640-Ic42/IMG_3906.JPG

[tazman]

Thanks for posting. It's always good to find out about possible problems.

[flashhole]

I fabricated and inserted a small bushing/spacer in line with the plunger. Full rotation of the drum and locked everything up nice and tight. Very repeatable and accurate charges.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v69/GuideGun/IMG_2431_zpsaawndb16.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/GuideGun/media/IMG_2431_zpsaawndb16.jpg.html)

[romukom]

That is interesting. I have noticed the slop withe the plunger. So far mine AD drops within +- .1 grains. Does your has the issue I posted?
I will contact Lee as well.

[claude]

romukom,

what is the estimate of the round count before you experienced the failure?

[opos]

I've loaded about 1000 rounds (mixed 45 Colt and 45 acp) with mine and still dead on...no issues at all...using Trail Boss in the 45Colt and W231 in the 45 acp. I did have one little issue in that the rubber o ring that fits on the riser "jumped off" and things would not tighten up...I found and replaced the o ring and all has been well since....I also removed the little "cocking arm" that set's up a charge and prevents a double charge if using a progressive as on the turret having to cock the measure each time manually is a pain in the backside...I love my measure but will continue to watch...my only issue at all was misplacing the o ring..could that be an issue here?

[romukom]

romukom,

what is the estimate of the round count before you experienced the failure?

I have loaded closed to 1500 rounds both .45 ACP and 9mm. Probably an additional 500 more cycles while setting things up. So, about 2000 cycles. I have not used the large drum.


I've loaded about 1000 rounds (mixed 45 Colt and 45 acp) with mine and still dead on...no issues at all...using Trail Boss in the 45Colt and W231 in the 45 acp. I did have one little issue in that the rubber o ring that fits on the riser "jumped off" and things would not tighten up...I found and replaced the o ring and all has been well since....I also removed the little "cocking arm" that set's up a charge and prevents a double charge if using a progressive as on the turret having to cock the measure each time manually is a pain in the backside...I love my measure but will continue to watch...my only issue at all was misplacing the o ring..could that be an issue here?

So far the O ring is fine on the assembly. The only O ring that tends to walk off from me is the one from the extender. The issue are the tabs that holds the swivel/knurl nut. With all the wobbles the tabs started to expand outward causing a partial slip off. So as a result a partial movement of the drum.
To be clear, I never over adjusted my expanding die; just barely enough flaring to seat the bullet. By the time the press is at full stroke, the drum and the square block are in the max movement range.

I already submitted a e-ticket to Lee for them to be aware of the issue.

[flashhole]

"That is interesting. I have noticed the slop withe the plunger. So far mine AD drops within +- .1 grains. Does your has the issue I posted?
I will contact Lee as well."

I did, in a way, experience what you experienced regarding the drum not rotating as much as it needed to.

I made the spacer because I was not getting full rotation with my 45-70 Powder Through Expander Die. I went round and round with the folks at Lee and they insisted there was no problem and even sent me a replacement part. Same problem with both factory parts. I even sent pictures with diagrams comparing the parts that worked and the part(s) that didn't and you could clearly see the problem.

The drum needs to rotate about 120 degrees to fill the powder chamber and drop the powder down the tube. I was only getting about 90 degrees rotation with the 45-70 Powder Through Die. The only other Powder Through Expander Die I have is for the 40 S&W and it does not exhibit this problem. The spacer solved the problem nicely.

I made a second spacer a bit shorter because I bought two Auto Drums and dedicated one to the small drum and one to the large drum. I use the long and short rifle dies that came both dies in the same kit and in addition to the two cartridges listed above I load 221 Fireball, 223 Rem, 25-06 and 7mm RM with the Auto Drum.

I also have the Lee Classic Powder Measure. The brass drum in the Classic fits perfectly in the Auto Drum. I notice Factory Sales has the brass drum available for purchase separately. I may pick one up and use it on the larger rifle cartridges as the micrometer adjust is very repeatable and easy to use.

To date, with the Auto Drum, I have only loaded about 1000 rounds total for all my guns.

[claude]

Thank you OP

[romukom]

That is interesting. In my case as soon as the expander (both .45 and 9mm ) dies goes into the case, the drum starts to rotate. There are still some slop in the pinion rack.

[opos]

I may be wrong but it seems to me there was some comment in the Lee Literature or help videos about special "handling" required if rifle cartridges were being loaded..my comments before were only about handgun loading and I have never used the larger charging drum...I only use the smaller disc....wondering if there is something about the larger set up and loading for rifles? Wish my old mind would be able to reacall what I read or saw that commented on rifle charging.

Edit: I just went to you tube and found this video..don't know if it has any bearing on any of this but it's what I was thinking of and the video seems to deal with the area that is in question..

https://youtu.be/rCKUqNMVf6Y

[kryogen]

Why do we always need to "fix" new lee equipment, or work around the flaws?

[opos]

Probably the same reason new expensive cars get recalled all the time.

[jetinteriorguy]

"That is interesting. I have noticed the slop withe the plunger. So far mine AD drops within +- .1 grains. Does your has the issue I posted?
I will contact Lee as well."

I did, in a way, experience what you experienced regarding the drum not rotating as much as it needed to.

I made the spacer because I was not getting full rotation with my 45-70 Powder Through Expander Die. I went round and round with the folks at Lee and they insisted there was no problem and even sent me a replacement part. Same problem with both factory parts. I even sent pictures with diagrams comparing the parts that worked and the part(s) that didn't and you could clearly see the problem.

The drum needs to rotate about 120 degrees to fill the powder chamber and drop the powder down the tube. I was only getting about 90 degrees rotation with the 45-70 Powder Through Die. The only other Powder Through Expander Die I have is for the 40 S&W and it does not exhibit this problem. The spacer solved the problem nicely.

I made a second spacer a bit shorter because I bought two Auto Drums and dedicated one to the small drum and one to the large drum. I use the long and short rifle dies that came both dies in the same kit and in addition to the two cartridges listed above I load 221 Fireball, 223 Rem, 25-06 and 7mm RM with the Auto Drum.

I also have the Lee Classic Powder Measure. The brass drum in the Classic fits perfectly in the Auto Drum. I notice Factory Sales has the brass drum available for purchase separately. I may pick one up and use it on the larger rifle cartridges as the micrometer adjust is very repeatable and easy to use.

To date, with the Auto Drum, I have only loaded about 1000 rounds total for all my guns.
I was thinking of doing this as well, what are the dimensions of your spacer?

[flashhole]

I fit the outside dimension of the spacer to the inside dimension of the sliding sleeve in the die that captures it. The inside dimension was matched to the ID of the powder through ram on the powder measure. It effect it was just an extension of the ram/drip tube on the powder measure. The one I made for the 45-70 was .120" long. The second one used on the standard rifle die and the 40 S&W was .100".

[jetinteriorguy]

Thanks. I'll have to give this a try.

[romukom]

FYI,
Lee and I are working to verify few things before reaching to a resolution/conclusion.

[romukom]

Just a quick update. Lee asked me to perform a test to verify that the movement of the “plastic square” is moving though it range. I was asked to test the Auto Drum (AD) with and without the riser/extension. So with a sized case, the “plastic square started to move as soon as the expander made contact with the case. When the lever was at it full stroke, the square stopped about 1/16” from the AD metal body. This indicates that the expander die is properly set and not stressing the AD. I have the same result without the riser.
So, here is the response:

"We have changed the diameter of the black knurled adapter bolt to reduce the clearance as you
accomplished with the zip tie.

It is normal for the body to move during actuation as the connecting rod
pushes off the center line of the device. The only load on the retaining
ears is load from the plastic connecting rod in action and the heavy
return spring when at rest. I don't think you will have any further
problems."

So far is working as intended.
As for the spacer, I don’t think is related with my reported issue. I only have 9mm and .45 ACP dies. So both expander are working/actuating the drum as it should.

[opos]

Just a quick update. Lee asked me to perform a test to verify that the movement of the “plastic square” is moving though it range. I was asked to test the Auto Drum (AD) with and without the riser/extension. So with a sized case, the “plastic square started to move as soon as the expander made contact with the case. When the lever was at it full stroke, the square stopped about 1/16” from the AD metal body. This indicates that the expander die is properly set and not stressing the AD. I have the same result without the riser.
So, here is the response:

"We have changed the diameter of the black knurled adapter bolt to reduce the clearance as you
accomplished with the zip tie.

It is normal for the body to move during actuation as the connecting rod
pushes off the center line of the device. The only load on the retaining
ears is load from the plastic connecting rod in action and the heavy
return spring when at rest. I don't think you will have any further
problems."

So far is working as intended.
As for the spacer, I don’t think is related with my reported issue. I only have 9mm and .45 ACP dies. So both expander are working/actuating the drum as it should.

Did Lee indicate that there was or was not a potential problem with units that have been out and in use for a while? I have one of the first ones out and no problems at all but hate to have a 'ticking bomb" if there is a wear or other issue...are they changing things or is your case independent?..thanks

[romukom]

Per their response it seems that they have made the change. I think is a combination of the smaller diameter of the knurled nut and the normal movement of the body that wore the tab. I have no indication that I will get an updated part.

[opos]

I contacted Lee after this thread went on and John Lee sent me the attached response and said if I chose to post it that it would be fine. I've used the auto drum since it was announced and have never had one issue...I figured if there was a potential problem I'd ask Lee and see if there was anthing in the works. It seems that Lee was watching the thread here and on another forum concerning this issue (same o/p in both forums) and here is a cut and paste from his e mail to me...it appears that the "problem" that was discussed is, in fact not a problem if the operation is "standard" and uses standard dies and so forth for the caliber involved...I am often amused at how fast folks try and "pile on" if there is a "problem" and blame the equipment manufacturer...in this case it appears Lee is making a very minor change to overcome issues that can arise if there is any mis use of the equipment...Piling on Lee about this is like blaming a powder company for a double charge..I'm a fan of Lee equipment for the most part and have used it for a long time...I also have a couple of items that are not Lee as their "ergonomics" fit my personal way of doing things better...In this case I feel comfortable that the Auto Drum is one heck of a nice measure for around $40 and is head and shoulders above some of the other measures on the market..Here is his e mail to me:

I was made aware of the thread on cast boolits and I am concerned that
users are thinking that the square lug on the sliding drop tube must
rise to contact the top of the slot in the die cast body. Some
responders are actually making spacers to drive the drop tube higher
than it is supposed too. This modification will cause an excessive
amount of pressure to be applied to the retaining ears in question. The
pressure in fact will be limited only by the column strength of the
brass case! The powder measure is designed so that the expander plug is
to stop its upward travel against the threaded end of knurled adapter
bolt. The square on the sliding drop tube SHOULD NOT CONTACT THE TOP OF
THE CASTING SLOT. I believe they are making this modification with the
thinking that the drum needs to rotate further than it was designed to.
Or they are trying to use an expanding die/plug that was not designed
for the case they are reloading . Example using a 357 mag expanding die
on a 38 special case, a Hornady 45/70 leverloution case with a standard
45/70 expander die, a 44 mag die on a 44 special case. In these
examples one would need a spacer and if you left the spacer in place and
switched to a proper combination of plug and die the measure would now
over stroke and the expanding pressure would now be against the subject
ears.

So to make the powder measure a little more tolerant to the "modifiers"
we will increase the knurled adapter bolts flange diameter to engage the
"ears" with a little less overhang.

Using standard Lee expander plugs and dies there is never more pressure
on the ears than the load that the glass filled nylon connecting link
can exert. So if you are using the measure with standard accessories you
won't have any problems.

Sincerely,

John Lee, President

[daboone]

"So to make the powder measure a little more tolerant to the "modifiers" we will increase the knurled adapter bolts flange diameter to engage the "ears" with a little less overhang. "

When will this knurled adapter bolts flange part be available? It not as yet listed on their site. So far I haven't had problem but the increased size sure would make it easier to tighten or remove this measure from to/their powder dies.

[ryokox3]

Interesting, Maybe there should be a mark on the measure showing where it should rotate to. I spent a while thinking the drum was not rotating enough and weighing many charges. Eventually I realized it was simply working no matter the powder / quantity. It earned my trust.

As a side note, I've used the lee autodisk pro, and the perfect powder measure and now the auto drum with promo and light loads. I gave up on < 3 grain loads of promo with the prior two measures due to too much inconsistency. I gave the auto drum a shot with a 1.7 grain load in .380 and it performed flawlessly over about 100 rounds. I foresee replacing my autodisk's with these in the near future.

[romukom]

Another update: So far I have not experienced the issue again. I have loaded 100 rounds for testing without any issue. My Auto Drum performed as designed. Prior to that I did a batch of 50 rounds and weighted each charge to see if things are repeatable (without the zip tie). So far Most of the charges were within +- 0.1 grains; there were two that were -0.2 grains. I decided to use the zip to secure the tabs before starting to reload my test rounds as a precaution.

Again, not bashing Lee or any manufacturer. I am just putting my findings out there to be aware off. I like their products. There might be some quirks but for me is part of the hobby. Yeah, I even have a Loadmaster :)

[romukom]

Interesting, Maybe there should be a mark on the measure showing where it should rotate to. I spent a while thinking the drum was not rotating enough and weighing many charges. Eventually I realized it was simply working no matter the powder / quantity. It earned my trust.

As a side note, I've used the lee autodisk pro, and the perfect powder measure and now the auto drum with promo and light loads. I gave up on < 3 grain loads of promo with the prior two measures due to too much inconsistency. I gave the auto drum a shot with a 1.7 grain load in .380 and it performed flawlessly over about 100 rounds. I foresee replacing my autodisk's with these in the near future.

Oh yeah, I did make some marks with a Sharpie when I first got it. I also put some painters tape on the Drum to help see the movement. You know, anything helps when you have to keep an eye with a lot of thing going on a progressive press.

[meeesterpaul]

Just moved my one-week-old Auto drum from my Pro 1000 feeding 45 Colts to my brothers loadmaster on top of 357 mag dies. I just ran a string of cases through to get some measures some weights of the powder drop here's the string that I just got 2.9, 2.9, 3.1, 2.9, zero, zero , zero, 3.5
it has to be me

[ryokox3]

Any chance those zeros were from not tripping the "doublecharge safety" on the measure?

[Moonie]

I used mine last to load about 50 357Sig rounds with 125gr Lee RNFP powder coated over 10.2gr AA#7. I weighed every 5 and the loads ran from 10.1gr to 10.2gr. All were visually inspected and appeared to have the same level of powder in each one.

[Silverboolit]

Has anyone taken the AD apart? I would like to try a lighter spring and check to see if it still functions. THe spring in there seems to be very heavy for what it is supposed to do.

[Kenstone]

Has anyone taken the AD apart? I would like to try a lighter spring and check to see if it still functions. THe spring in there seems to be very heavy for what it is supposed to do.
I have, with mixed results.
Just slide out the drop tube and move the nut/washer sideways out from under the spring, as I recall.
I lubed all the moving parts that don't touch powder and re-assembled it with a lighter spring.
The tightness of the drum nut and the pressure it puts on the elastomer wiper becomes critical...too tight and the measure hangs up because of the lighter spring, too loose and it leaks powder.
So it's a trade off, leakage or hanging up.
Put it aside and went back to the auto disc,
jmo
:-x

[meeesterpaul]

I look forward to getting my auto drum to live up to its promise. I appreciate all the details that people are posting here and I'm going to revisit this thing and see if I can get mine to work. I've never had so many squibs. I'd like to avoid things like this triple stack209308

[Grmps]

meeesterpaul

I have found that IF you set the die in too deep-- The square on the sliding drop tube SHOULD NOT CONTACT THE TOP OF
THE CASTING SLOT. your measure will get goofy and the slider drop tube will get jammed up AM3041 B You should have at least a 1/16th inch of more gap.

https://i.imgur.com/N3LgFvh.jpg?1

The plastic "hook" that ride on the body will lock up.
https://i.imgur.com/MahyLB9.jpg?1

I ended up having to send 1 back to Lee to be replaced.

LEAKING

Lee has discovered that many of the molded plastic drums are NOT uniform in size and have started machining them even/smooth.
If your drum leaks powder and it doesn't look like it has been sanded/uniformed Lee will replace it.

I have a borescope hooked to a tablet & wired to my press, pointing into the case before the boolit gets inserted. Glancing at the tablet I can easily see if there is powder in the case

[kmw1954]

I have all but given up on my Drum. It has been back to Lee twice already and I really haven't used it since I received it back last time. Until yesterday that is. Put it on to try and make some test rounds for my 380 using AA#5. Disk cavities wouldn't go small enough. Anyways within the first 20 cases I had 5 that the top of the case was chipped out plus it was leaking powder all over the place.

Sure the Auto Disk measure might not be as convenient to use but it does not leak and so far I haven't broke one!

[meeesterpaul]

After talking with attack at League I disconnected the disconnector. It now feeds reliably so now with the risk of a double charge.
By the way hit meters small ball powders nicely tries to do a consistent job with E3 which is sort of flake powder that I'm using in 40sw sometimes I'll get eight or nine charges in a row that'll be 2.9, 2.9, 2.9, but then think 2.8 or 3.1 might pop up

[fralic76]

https://i.imgur.com/MahyLB9.jpg?1


What is the wire and zip ties for?

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

[milprileb]

All I see is pistol powder reviews. How good / bad does this measure do with Varget and other "stick" powders ?

[kmw1954]

Best I can do for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQazETXEOM4