vernier sights

[canuck4570]

to reach 1000 yards with a sharp 1874 how much movement must the vernier sight have 4570 caliber

[Don McDowell]

It will depend on your load ballistics, the front sight height, head winds tail winds etc. But generally you can expect that the vernier setting will be somewhere between 190 and 225.

[canuck4570]

It will depend on your load ballistics, the front sight height, head winds tail winds etc. But generally you can expect that the vernier setting will be somewhere between 190 and 225.
OK I am knew to this

when you say 190 and 225 what do you mean exactly
looking at the sight markings I see that its devided in 1, 1/4 is 250 does this mean that each inch is 500 I doubt it …. help

[Don McDowell]

Not knowing what quality of sight you have I can't say what your sight setting will be, but just guessing wild here, if the staff has a 2 stamped on it towards the top of the staff, then start at the first mark below that 2 at 1000 yds and adjust the sight to account for the bullet impact at or near the target.
Do a search here, I think Mt. Charlie has posted an illustration about reading a vernier sight.

[canuck4570]

so Don if I read you correctly a 2 inches movement is enough Pedersoli E-mail me saying that start a around 187 to 200
for safety sake should I be taking a 3 inches movement sight

up to now I have nothing but looking in buying a BPCR but want to buy it with the correct sicht

thanks

[marlinman93]

If you haven't purchased yet, be sure to buy a long range vernier, and not a mid range vernier, if you plan to try for 1,000 yd. shots. The mid range sight will run out before you get there with a .45-70 barrel.

[montana_charlie]

Pedersoli E-mail me saying that start a around 187 to 200
for safety sake should I be taking a 3 inches movement sight
marlinman93 said it best.
Buy a sight that is called a "long range" sight.

There are a number of different 'styles', but if it's called "long range" it is tall enough to get to 1000 yards.

Since you are in contact with Pedersoli, I am going to assume you are looking at the sights they offer.
If true, these are their 'long range' sights that are good enough to be at least 'serviceable' for accurate shooting.

The USA 406 has the Soule windage mechanism which moves the staff.
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-accessorio.asp/l_en/idpr_122/pre_0/accessories-creedmoors-creedmoor-soule-long-range.html

The USA 431 has two windage adjustments, one for the staff, and one for the eyepiece.
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-accessorio.asp/l_en/idpr_146/pre_0/accessories-creedmoors-silhouette-long-range-creedmoor-sight.html

The USA 430 has only the eyepiece windage adjustment, which may leave you wanting more at a thousand yards.
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-accessorio.asp/l_en/idpr_145/pre_0/accessories-creedmoors-universal-long-range-creedmoor-sights.html

They are all pretty good quality, and they all will accept the Hadley-type eyepiece offered by Pedersoli.
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-accessorio.asp/l_en/idpr_151/pre_0/accessories-creedmoors-professional-hadley-style-eye-piece.html

There are some other long range sights offered by Pedersoli, but you really don't want them ...

[canuck4570]

the rifle I am looking at is the Bodine RB it has the USA430
I could order with the sight that would be best lie the 406 but 6 month waiting time…….
mmmm hard choice
not hard but lousy
thanks

[country gent]

You could order a long range soule sight with base from Montanna Vintage arms. It will give plenty of hieght and as a bonus easier windage adjustments. I have shot the pedersoli rear sights and while they are okay they arnt the same class as the MVA or some others out there. Just something to consider. Buffalo Arms has a good selection of long range soule sights on thier web site also.

[Huntsman52]

Canuck4570: I had the Pedersoli 431 when I first started BPCR and was not all that impressed. The sight was given to me to learn on but the metal was soft, would not lock tight and had alot of play. It did get me shooting though. The sight also would not fold back so swabbing with sight on from breech was a pain. I passed the sight on and ended up purchasing a long rang Baldwin sight from a form member here. Could not be happier. I would also check out Lee Shaver.

[Don McDowell]

Skip the Pedersoli sight. Go with a quality sight from Buffalo Arms, Baldwin, Hoke ,or MVA

[Clay M]

I have a Hoke midrange sight ,made by Kermit Hoke.

http://kermitool.com/hoke_rifle_sight.html

I never expect to shoot more that 600 yds ,so it works well for me.

It is a beautiful piece of workmanship.

[canuck4570]

guess I will have to buy the rifle and sell the sigft

yes the MVA is one of the best

thanks guys

[sharpsguy]

Don't be so optimistic. Around here you can't GIVE a Pedersoli tang sight away, let alone sell one. Get a rifle without a tang sight, then get a Baldwin, a Hoke, or MVA. You will be a lot happier.

[montana_charlie]

the rifle I am looking at is the Bodine RB it has the USA430
I could order with the sight that would be best lie the 406 but 6 month waiting time…….
mmmm hard choice
not hard but lousy
thanks
If you take it with the USA 430, you will (at least) have a 'long range' sight capable of a thousand yards.
If you only shoot long range on calm days, it may satisfy your needs.
If it proves to be too limited on windage adjustment, you can probably sell it for a good portion of the cost of a USA 406 ... which is available from many sources other than Pedersoli.

Can that rifle be had with no tang sight without creating a special order situation?

[marlinman93]

I agree that if you can get one with no tang sight at all, you'll be much better off. Not much market for even brand new used Pedersoli sights. Baldwin, MVA, etc. will work way better, and always hold their settings, and their value.

[Clay M]

Any gun is only as good as the sights you have on it. I have several bolt actions that I paid more for the scopes than I did for the gun.

[Knarley]

I had a Pedersoli long range sight on my Quigley. It's NOT there any more. The one I have is one of their spendier ones. On the side where you read the settings, it has 200 lines per inch, which is about 100 too many.About impossible to read. I bought a Kelly from Buffalo Arms, what a difference! It's a bit more expensive right off the bat, but you will only buy one!

:bigsmyl2:I got one I'll sell ya...........Cheap!!

Knarley

[MT Chambers]

You'll def. need the MVA long range staff as opposed to the mid-range one, if you're goin' with the excellent MVA sights.....IMHO the Italian sights have too much "slack" in them making repeat settings a **** shoot.

[Gunlaker]

As someone mentioned, you'll probably want a Soule sight. At least you will if you ever want to shoot in competition. With a Sharps you'll want the long range sight, but on a highwall, because of the fact that the sight pivot is higher on the tang you can get by with less. I use around 160 to hit 1000 yards. I'm not sure about that Bodine Rolling Block. Better to be safe than sorry.

Another thing. Depending on where you shoot, you might run out of windage even with an MVA LR soule. I was only a few minutes away from running out at my first LR match last year. I needed 18 minutes at 800 yards. Fortunately the wind shifted and it worked out. I now have a LR Buffalo soule with extra windage.

I concur on the Pedersoli sights. I had one of their best sights and it was fine for informal target shooting. If that's what you want to do then it might still work for you. I had it for a couple of years but it was a bit too sloppy to compete with.

Chris.

[Dan Cash]

Skip the Pedersoli sight. Go with a quality sight from Buffalo Arms, Baldwin, Hoke ,or MVA

I concur with the Hoke sight. It does not get any better than that and Kermit Hoke is a champion to deal with.

[rfd]

i have the pedersoli bodine .45-70 roller. the pedi sights that came with it are "serviceable" at best - barely.

i quickly replaced both the tang and globe sights with lee shaver long range super grade vernier tang micrometer soule (w/hadley eye cup) rear, and spirit globe front. these are Excellent sights with all the bells 'n' whistles for out to 1000 yards and will cost under $500 for both. i have the same sights for my pedi '74 sharps sporter, as well.

http://i.imgur.com/Jj81jCG.jpg

same sights also on a pedi silhouette .40-65 roller ...

http://i.imgur.com/zbIeGET.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nZ9rfiv.jpg

[canuck4570]

these are beautiful

going to convince the importer here in Canada to ship me the Bodine with no sights

thanks guy for all the help

[rfd]

the pedi "adobe walls" was, or still is, the sightless version of the "john bodine" - same exact rifle, both can be had with either 30" or 34" tubes. i prefer the longer.

[montana_charlie]

i quickly replaced both the tang and globe sights with lee shaver long range super grade vernier tang micrometer soule (w/hadley eye cup) rear, and spirit globe front. these are Excellent sights with all the bells 'n' whistles

http://i.imgur.com/nZ9rfiv.jpg
I also owned a Lee Shaver tang sight for a while. It was the 'Economy grade Soule' that he sells for around two hundred.

One thing I disliked about that sight was that it's staff spring could not be adjusted to change the andle of the staff.
It was a little 'leaf spring' that rested in a 'pocket' under the staff ... and was not adjustable in any way.
Not only was it not adjustable, it was so lacking in 'strength' that it didn't lock the staff upright very securely.
The lightest touch while positioning the shooting hand required mr to bring it back to 'locked'.

One of the bells and whictles of the 'Super Deluxe" offered by Shaver has the long staff spring that is held down by one of the two mounting screws.
Loosening the screw allows the long spring to slide forward and aft, to change the 'lean' of the staff.

Looking closely at your picture, it appears that you have the same (economy) spring that I did ...

[rfd]

you are the observant one, montana_charlie!

yes, only on the .40-65 sharps it's the shaver economy with an added hadley cup.

[country gent]

Gun laker, I installed a windgage front sight on my pedersoli 74 sharps long range model. Set it in the dovetail to wind zero with the long range soule zeroed. I can now put the "wind for a relay on the front and use the rear simply for changes during the relay. Or on those really nasty days I can use both to get to where I need to be. Its another thing to consider depending where you shoot and prevailing winds. I seldom have enough wind here to need both but on the few days when its really blowing its a help. LOL It does require you to remeber to reset the front or the next no wind match may be a surprise.

[Gunlaker]

I have been thinking of trying a windgage front. I have a couple of rifles with them, but they are originals and have no windage on the rear tangs :-)

To me a windgage front is a nice idea because I could dial the spin drift on it to get a good no wind zero at any distance without shimming the tang to cant the sight.

Have you ever had your front sight move while shooting? Mine have not yet, but I don't use those old rifles a lot. For some reason they always move when being transported to and from the range though!

Chris.

[rfd]

i think a rear tang micrometer windage is just more accessible during shooting.

i replaced the front sights on all my bpcr rifles with spirit globes, and in doing so i reworked the dovetails as need be for a tight fit and then used locked tite. they ain't gonna move without a hefty hammer blow on a steel drift.

[Gunlaker]

Rfd I certainly don't mean that I think people should only have windage adjustments on the front sights. This is the way it was done in the old days on many rifles. I have several originals set up like this.

Front windage with a soule on the rear has a few potential advantages, and some disadvantages.

By the front sight moving, I do not mean moving in the dovetails. None of my rifles have ever done that. But a windgage front sight has a part that moves on a screw. This part sometimes moves on me during the trip to the range. I have not yet had one adjust itself while shooting though.

Chris.

[rfd]

no, no problem, chris - i didn't mean to imply anything about front windage globes other than the rear soule it just right close and not an arm's length away. i failed to catch on that yer last sentence about the front sight meant the windage slippage and not the dovetail slipping. danged internet and typing words.

[country gent]

Mine dosnt move while shooting but it has opposing locks on the thread. one loosen one make adjustment to scale on sight and retighten the lock. I like them not for while Im shooting a string but to rough set for wind at start and then I only need to fine tune rears windage and changes during the string of shots. Its another tool that may help you on some days and a good way to pend another $200- $400 on equipment. LOL They are a good way to double your windage adjustments also.

[rfd]

...Its another tool that may help you on some days and a good way to pend another $200- $400 on equipment. LOL They are a good way to double your windage adjustments also.

i agree on all accounts, sir! :smile:

[Gunlaker]

RFD, I can certainly see why modern sights have the windage on the rear sight. Imagine shooting prone with windage on the front sight only. That'd be a funny sight :-)

CountryGent, who makes that locking windgage sight of yours? It sounds like a good idea.

Chris.

[country gent]

The one on my pedersoli is made by pedersoli or sold under thier name. I think MVAs windgage front locks from each side also. Their front scope mounts do. I bought my pedersoli 74 sharps long range when starting out in black powder cartridges Its the cabellas long range model. I replaced the original tang sight with a pedersoli soule long range model then later the front globe with their windgage front. Getting the rear to zero wind was real fun. the front wasnt as bad or as much work. I found out the rifle was to heavy for NRA BPCR shilouettes after I bought it. I considered cutting the 34" barrel back to 30" or re tapering the front round section to make weight but it shoots so good I hate to mess with it. On another note I would bet back in the day coaches would make adjustments on the front sight for the shooter in the team matches. Like some muzzle loader matches allow loaders.