AA# 7 question

[unclebill]

i see this powder for sale and it is inexpensive.
9mm Nato Pistol Powder Crosses with AA#7

would this be safe to use for 45 acp?
i found another thread about this powder but i want to be very sure it would be a wise thing to buy.
i am a relative newcomer to lead bullet reloading and will be using a 230gr.lrn bullet in my S.A.1911A1.
thank you for your time!
bill

[9.3X62AL]

Not sure if it's the same stuff, but Jeff Bartlett had some AA-7 equivalent powder a few years back and I bought 7# of it. It is WITHOUT DOUBT the most resistant powder to metering through a powder measure that I've ever seen. The stuff looks like little hockey pucks, and is problematic even in Lee spoons. The idea of weighing every charge for pistol reloading has ZERO charm for me. It does duplicate AA-7 performance, though. I still have 6.95# of it.

[unclebill]

it's supposed to be fine ball.
i want to use it in my new to me dillon 550b

[9.3X62AL]

AA-7 runs like water through my old Duo-Measure, if it is as described you should be all right. I have zero time with Dillon equipment, though--maybe someone else can elaborate further.

[Ricochet]

IMO AA #7's pretty slow stuff for .45 ACP. AA #2's great stuff for standard hardball level loads and lighter. I expect you'll get a lot of unburned powder with #7. I always did with Blue Dot when I was using maximum Speer Manual loads of it to propel 200 grain Speer JHPs. Never interfered with the function of the 1911, of course. It's just wasteful. #7 is a better 9mm powder.

[unclebill]

thats why i ask you guys.
you know.
i dont!
thanks again.
too bad.
8 bucks and change a lb.

[Ricochet]

Well, if the price is low enough it doesn't matter if it's wasteful.

But last time I looked (which was last summer), Alliant's Promo equivalent of Red Dot was selling for about $10/lb. Hardball equivalent loads of that will use a charge somewhere in the 4.5 grain range, whereas for #7 you're looking at about 10 grains (Accurate says the max is 11 grains for 979 FPS with a 230 grainer), so the somewhat more expensive Promo is actually cheaper per round than the cheaper #7 that requires more than twice as much powder for the same velocity.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I burned a pound of canister AA#7 through .38 spl, .357 and .45 Colt. I never found any satisfaction with it. Always lots of unburned powder kernals, even with high end .357 loads. I would have to blow the kernals out the the chambers before I could insert fresh loads. It showed all the signs of not enough pressure. I concluded that it was b/c of the revolver cartridges with lots of room in them. The powder was a dense fine ball and didn't fill the cases well. It would probably do much better in the small cased auto cartridges.

The more powders I play with, the more I perfer Bullseye, Herco and 2400. But I don't load for autos.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I burned a pound of canister AA#7 through .38 spl, .357 and .45 Colt. I never found any satisfaction with it. Always lots of unburned powder kernals, even with high end .357 loads. I would have to blow the kernals out the the chambers before I could insert fresh loads. It showed all the signs of not enough pressure. I concluded that it was b/c of the revolver cartridges with lots of room in them. The powder was a dense fine ball and didn't fill the cases well. It would probably do much better in the small cased auto cartridges.

The more powders I play with, the more I perfer Bullseye, Herco and 2400. But I don't load for autos.

[Ricochet]

#7 was developed for the 9mm Parabellum. Even there, it seldom offers much ballistic advantage over #5 in smaller charges from the loading tables. Looks more promising for 7.62x25.

[mstarling]

Real AA#7 meters like water. Have used a BUNCH of it in IPSC major loads for 38 Super. Now using 3N37 instead. Is a bit slow for 45 ACP.

[9.3X62AL]

Ricochet--

I believe that AA-7 was specifically developed for use in the Czech-intensity 7.62 x 25 loads. It is THE BEST powder for this caliber and for 30 Luger that I have ever used (jacketed bullets). The hockey-puck #7 I have fro Bartlett's is ChiCom surplus intended for their 7.62 x 25, and it works well in that application--it just takes for ever to charge cases with.

[MT Gianni]

Al, the powder I have labeled 107 surplus is AA7 burning rate and square edged. I got it to meter with a LY 1200 DPS using an upgraded system. It is slightly slower to charge 6 grains of this then 48 gr of 4831 but is is a repeatable and an accurate weight. Gianni

[9.3X62AL]

John--

I'll have to check the jug label, my stuff might be the #107 you speak of. Your description of "square-edged" is much more polite nomenclature than I've given it, but I'm glad someone got it to act right. That scaling of powder charges for a semi-auto pistol is only slightly more time-efficient than paper-patching for a Gatling gun.

The more tractable AA-7 has given me some "rated-R" loads in the Ruger P-89X with the 30 Luger barrel in place. Hornady 85 grain XTPs @ 1500 FPS, with the heavier 9mm recoil spring. HIJO LA, LOUD!!

[Ricochet]

Ricochet--

I believe that AA-7 was specifically developed for use in the Czech-intensity 7.62 x 25 loads. It is THE BEST powder for this caliber and for 30 Luger that I have ever used (jacketed bullets). The hockey-puck #7 I have fro Bartlett's is ChiCom surplus intended for their 7.62 x 25, and it works well in that application--it just takes for ever to charge cases with.I believe I got that about it being developed for 9mm off of Accurate's website, but considering how they actually buy and relabel powders from makers around the world, both stories could be "right." They probably bought a Czech 7.62X25 powder and said "This'll be great stuff in 9mm." Sure looks like great stuff for the 7.62X25 on the top end, and last night looking at Lee's book it looks like it shines in the 9mm with the heavy 147 grain bullets that I'm not particularly interested in. Looks to me like they found the perfectly balanced weight when they settled on the 124 grain bullet for 9mm. (115's original and does fine, too.)

I'm sure I've also read that AA #5 was originally intended as a 9mm powder, but don't have a reference. It seems to work well with the 124 grain bullets.

[JDL]

John--

That scaling of powder charges for a semi-auto pistol is only slightly more time-efficient than paper-patching for a Gatling gun.



LOL!! Dang it all, you made me blow coffee all over my monitor. Love it.
JDL

[slughammer]

I bought the 9mm Nato powder from Hi-Tech (AA#7). Metering is excellent in my Dillon powder measure (within .1 grain).

So far I have tried 8.0 & 8.5gr in 357 mag cases, WSP, and the group buy C358-180 (checked and lubed at 188gr). Very clean, no problem with unburt powder.

[Ricochet]

9.3X62AL got me thinking with that info about #7 being a Czech 7.62x25 powder. When I bought the "surplus #2" a few years back I was told that it was the identical powder sold by Accurate as #2, direct from the Czech manufacturer. Wonder if it's originally a 9x18 powder? At any rate, it works well in a lot of pistol applications.

[unclebill]

i bought 8 lbs. of it anyway.
i will be able to use it sometime in one of my handgun calbers.
(it was so cheap i couldnt stand to not buy some)
thank you for the info guys!
bill

[MT Gianni]

I loaded the powder I had and it is at least from 2001, for a load from AA's 1st manual and added a BD 45 [230 gr fp] in the 45acp. I am glad i shot in in the blackhawk before I did the Kimber as it chrono'ed 1105 fps consistently. Gianni

[Ricochet]

I'd probably have bought it, too. :mrgreen:

[unclebill]

maybe i will try a few 357 rounds in the ruger sp101

[unclebill]

i bought 8lbs. of this and i want to use it in my 45acp pistol.
my lee manual says starting load is 9.9 gr. and never exceed 11.0 gr. of ACCUR #7
thoughts?
warnings?
threats?
advice?
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/zpowder002.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/zpowder001.jpg
thank you for your time once again.
bill

[unclebill]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/billhedges/zpowder003.jpg

[unclebill]

update:
i tried 8.8 gr.
158gr swc
.357mag
i loaded 5 rnds.
they all felt/sounded the same.
no signs of over pressure.
i am going to load up 10 or so more and chrono them in the morning.
this stuff meters through my duo-measure like a dream.
it's strange not having to use a trickler.

[Ricochet]

I love ball powders!

[unclebill]

I love ball powders!

no kidding!
where has it been all my life?
if this stuff chronos consistently and everything is ok tomorrow.
i am just going to load 1000 rnds.

[unclebill]

it got too windy to shoot more.
the chrono was getting blown over.
chronographed some rnds. this morning.
.357mag 3 in. bbl.
8.8 gr. pulled NATO 9mm powder
158 gr. swc
972
1018
1019
1001
998
998
998fps
a few unburned kernels in bbl.
clean burning also.

[Lloyd Smale]

sure looks like its going to be worth giving a try

[unclebill]

is a 47 fps spread ok?
i dont know much about this.

[Ricochet]

That's probably not bad. Standard deviation is a more statistically sound measure. Google that up. There are online calculators that will let you enter your numbers and get the result. Shoot about 20 rounds.

[unclebill]

i metered those charges.
i weighed 15 charges and they were all the same through my duo-measure

[Ricochet]

Sounds good to me. I don't do a lot of chronographing and statistical analysis. If it shoots well enough and doesn't damage me or my gun, it's good enough for me.

[unclebill]

i used a


Standard deviation calculator
just like ya told me boss!
13 shots

Standard deviation
42.22537446276546fps

[unclebill]

i just wanna play with my ruger.
and i gotta be safe!
max for A#7 is
11gr.
@1413fps

[dwtim]

I'm a little confused here. Is there a second "AA#7" powder mentioned earlier in the thread? If the surplus AA#7 burns 5-10% faster, isn't that the equivalent of AA#5?

I use the fancy-packed retail AA#7, and it looks just like the photo in #24. I can still find #5 and #7 for a little as 16.95 for individual pound cans. I've tried it in the 9mm, and it works well. I've used it extensively in .357 Mag for cast bullet loads -- second only to Unique. It produces some of the best lead bullet loads in terms of accuracy and cleanliness. I've also tried it in the 45 ACP. It likes heavier bullets in the latter caliber, however there are other powders that do a whole lot better, such as AA#5, which was designed for the 45.

I have the RCBS Uniflow for my measure. AA#7 meters consistently and doesn't seem to be as effected by the amount of powder in the hopper, like some other powders. If your RL-550 has a worn charge bar, then ball powders might give you trouble, (but ones with smaller granules like AA#9 or W296 would probably be worse.)

EDIT: Okay, I see that #105 / #107 was being discussed -- which are both flake powders and not AA #5 / #7.

[unclebill]

this powder is $63 + shipping per 8 lbs.