Recovered powder coated boolits

[Friar_Tuck]

The snow has finally left and I was able to recover some of the boolits from this winter's shooting. It really confirmed the effectiveness of powder coating. Some are HP 30 caliber, and some are 9mm. There is also a couple of boolits that I bought from a supplier with another popular coating. I noticed that the powder coating held up great, while the other coating was gone wherever the rifling contacted the boolits.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a263/Friar_Tuck_/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160330_135247_zpssatyulay.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/Friar_Tuck_/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160330_135247_zpssatyulay.jpg.html)

[bangerjim]

Those look like mine....the few I have ever recovered!! PC still there but smeared by lead deformation. That stuff, when cured properly, is amazing!

Thanks for posting!

banger

[sundog]

What rises to the surface when they are remelted. I know that sounds like an odd question, but what does it take to skim it off? Will it burn or simply melt into a glob? Does it leave any adverse pot residue? Since I do not PC, nor know anyone who does, I have no way of knowing other than ask.

[bangerjim]

Been discussed many MANY times on here. PC just burns and floats on the top to be skimmed off. And NO....it is NOT a flux!

Just melt as normal and skim off the black carp. No pot residue, no goop, just black ash.

Try PC. Once you do you will dump all your grease stuff!

banger

[sundog]

Thanks, Banger. Might try it after I retire..., which is right around the corner!

[fingers284]

The snow has finally left and I was able to recover some of the boolits from this winter's shooting. It really confirmed the effectiveness of powder coating. Some are HP 30 caliber, and some are 9mm. There is also a couple of boolits that I bought from a supplier with another popular coating. I noticed that the powder coating held up great, while the other coating was gone wherever the rifling contacted the boolits.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a263/Friar_Tuck_/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160330_135247_zpssatyulay.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/Friar_Tuck_/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160330_135247_zpssatyulay.jpg.html)

Very interested to know the alloy and speed of those .30 cal.??

[Gamsek]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160331/9dc7660f321b9b82e44725814667e63b.jpg

"Balistic media" was snow

[Walter Laich]

taking a turn at the next intersection...

How much snow do you need to keep the bullets from exiting? In Houston we only have Sundrifts and that's during July and August.

My gut feeling is like 50 ft of it (total guess) but then I've only heard about it in passing in posts on the site

thanks

[OS OK]

Look how that 'other' coating reveals the lead where the lands have engraved them…now look at the PC'd boolits…the lands are lubricated and the lead is not exposed.
I don't see a more convincing argument for PCing boolits!

OS OK

[OS OK]

taking a turn at the next intersection...

How much snow do you need to keep the bullets from exiting? In Houston we only have Sundrifts and that's during July and August.

My gut feeling is like 50 ft of it (total guess) but then I've only heard about it in passing in posts on the site

thanks

I remember when it snowed in Houston in ?1958?…about 4-6 inches out in Spring Branch…I left tracks across everybody's front yard all the way home from elementary school that day! First time I ever saw snow!

OS OK

[fingers284]

I live where we have snow cover for up to 6 or 7 mo. a yr. and have shot many rounds of both j-word and cast into the stuff. Undisturbed field snow will offer very little resistance to a bullet and most flat-angle entrance shots result in a bullet track many feet long and then a ricochet/skip to the next contact point sometimes many hundred of yards downrange. Bullets skip off snow much like flat rocks from water.

Shooting into a disturbed pile of snow such as we get from clearing yards is a different story. This snow becomes very dense, almost to an ice state, and works very efficiently as a temporary backstop. Handgun slugs usually stop in a couple of feet and rifle usually penetrate not much more than 4 ft or so.

[Walter Laich]

I live where we have snow cover for up to 6 or 7 mo. a yr. and have shot many rounds of both j-word and cast into the stuff. Undisturbed field snow will offer very little resistance to a bullet and most flat-angle entrance shots result in a bullet track many feet long and then a ricochet/skip to the next contact point sometimes many hundred of yards downrange. Bullets skip off snow much like flat rocks from water.

Shooting into a disturbed pile of snow such as we get from clearing yards is a different story. This snow becomes very dense, almost to an ice state, and works very efficiently as a temporary backstop. Handgun slugs usually stop in a couple of feet and rifle usually penetrate not much more than 4 ft or so.

Wow, I would have never guessed packed snow is such a good backstop--is that just Canadian snow or would UP snow work as well? :-P (UP = Upper Peninsula--I have relatives in Michigan)

[leebuilder]

Yup its Canadian snow. Best backstop if thick enough.
165113
These are four I found all reduced loads, into snow.
Yellow snow will stop them pretty quick too.
Be well

[fingers284]

Wow, I would have never guessed packed snow is such a good backstop--is that just Canadian snow or would UP snow work as well? :-P (UP = Upper Peninsula--I have relatives in Michigan)

Snow is snow no matter where it is. If it is warm enough it will become soft and wet however if the outside ambient temp is cold enough to "keep" snow it will make a backstop.

LOL. Walt Ill make you a deal, we'll trade places for a few years...by then you'll know everything you don't want to know about the stuff and I'll get a chance to forget everything I know about it...I've had enough of the sh!t to last a lifetime...that and the -40 as well.

[Friar_Tuck]

Just got a fresh batch of "Northern Backstop Material" delivered from the sky today. If anyone wants to come get it, you can have it for free!

[jmorris]

And I just iced down the cooler. Kind of felt bad for my little girl she didn't get to see any snow this past winter.

[popper]

2 items in comparison of #1 & #13. Thickness of coating, and difference in boolit vs groove size. #1 appears thicker and closer to groove size, #13 thinner and oversized from the amount of Pb in the L.G.s. Note the separation at the L.G. that sometimes flies off. Wonder which is more accurate.

[Gamsek]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160407/adcc05c9bc80114c3d21da1ab9fdecae.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160407/bb013cb6936beb0ee144be68505fd1df.jpg

More snow melted....

[Smoke4320]

looks like your coating is doing its job well !

[Gamsek]

looks like your coating is doing its job well !

Smoke, its your powder(s), few even mixed with some other PC......your PC is helping "less successful" PCs to be used with ease....

130 grs 9mm SWC MP Mold fired through Glock into "regular" and compact snow. 1 to 3 meters of bullet travel...

[leebuilder]

2 items in comparison of #1 & #13. Thickness of coating, and difference in boolit vs groove size. #1 appears thicker and closer to groove size, #13 thinner and oversized from the amount of Pb in the L.G.s. Note the separation at the L.G. that sometimes flies off. Wonder which is more accurate.
Been looking around at other pics and reading. I noticed the PC comes of in the lube grooves and rifling with some bores. Not sure what's wrong/right. I figured they had good adhesion for going down a 24" plus barrel. The 160 Lee TL, was crazy accurate, they were all quite accurate very suprised for my first time shooting PCED boolits. They all passed the hammer test, squished and smashed them to ruin the coating, thats though stuff!!. They were all about 1200 fps. Had no leading and almost spotless bores. My summer 100ms and beyond shooting starts this weekend, more results to follow.
I am gonna preheat my toaster oven and boolits and look for flaws
Be well

[Gamsek]

187254
Shoot into ice, left PC clear
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/9bf15193428891f56411e1226f4f7dd4.jpg
Shoot into ice month ago, recovered today

[OS OK]

I see lots of rounds with the PC missing on the body and the drive bands after recovery, yet they have passed the smash test without flaking off...
I examine my barrels and find no deposits only mirror smooth bores...
I scratch my head and wonder...what is going on and why don't these voids in the PC foul my bore?
There are others, other brands of PC and colors that stay put nicely, they have carbon looking fouling on the PC and there is no PC missing...?

I get recovered rounds from a recycle type backstop...a trash can filled with rubber mulch. I see rubber skid marks on the casts so I don't think the rubber is knocking it off either.

Could this be the result of the high temps. the PC is exposed to in the barrel? It causes the PC to flake after leaving the muzzle?

I dunnoh....like I said, I'm still scratching my head on this one.

[Larry Gibson]

Friar Tuck

Assuming those red PC'd 30 cals weren't lube? Can you give us the recovered diameter and the groove diameter of the rifle they were shot in?

Thanks

Larry Gibson

[HABCAN]

Looking at the pics posted, I'd assume (yeah, right!) that the bare spots on the recovered slugs resulted from abrasion with the media into which they were shot, i.e.; ice??

[Gamsek]

Looking at the pics posted, I'd assume (yeah, right!) that the bare spots on the recovered slugs resulted from abrasion with the media into which they were shot, i.e.; ice??

Those 9mm swc were from before I set my Dillon flaring die, sometimes case shaved the shank. And those 9mm were inside ice for a month.

See this group, they were all shoot subsonic into big barrel of frozen water - ice. One of those boolets was still spinning inside ice after being stopped. Maybe this is the reason. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/75c31ef867c7b46dca3cdb093f27456a.jpg
Gas checks were found near boolets, they fall off only after hitting something hard.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/628ffd1b51bc983a7c7cc4df704bde77.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/a98b47261df23fe6e7e4caa5cbb464c0.jpg
Rifle boolets, have many photos of PC boolets shoot into water and wet soft paper....

[Gamsek]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170305/9bb2c64db711c33bd7748b12f53f63ed.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170305/6f0a633e8829ebd8c5be87375b344313.jpg

Found one more, in wet paper, subsonic from 300blk....almost intact

[popper]

Osok imo the coating comes off from friction in the barrel and impact with the target. We can't hit them hard enough & shock of the alloy expanded may 'powder off'.

[Traffer]

Is the original post picture of 9mm from a Lee 124 grain tumble lube bullet mold? The reason I ask is that there are many folks who have trouble with them tumbling especially with powder coat. Yours seem to have flown very nicely by the deformation of the tips only.

[Motor]

Look how that 'other' coating reveals the lead where the lands have engraved them…now look at the PC'd boolits…the lands are lubricated and the lead is not exposed.
I don't see a more convincing argument for PCing boolits!

OS OK

Very cool observation. I would really like to see a nice set of comparison photos featuring fired PC vs fired lubed boolits.

Motor

[Motor]

Is the original post picture of 9mm from a Lee 124 grain tumble lube bullet mold? The reason I ask is that there are many folks who have trouble with them tumbling especially with powder coat. Yours seem to have flown very nicely by the deformation of the tips only.

I use that mould for PC. I have a bunch loaded in 38spl too. I will definitely shoot some paper targets next range trip to see if I'm getting nice round holes.

At what distance are they supposed to be tumbling at ?

Motor

[glockky]

Those 9mm swc were from before I set my Dillon flaring die, sometimes case shaved the shank. And those 9mm were inside ice for a month.

See this group, they were all shoot subsonic into big barrel of frozen water - ice. One of those boolets was still spinning inside ice after being stopped. Maybe this is the reason. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/75c31ef867c7b46dca3cdb093f27456a.jpg
Gas checks were found near boolets, they fall off only after hitting something hard.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/628ffd1b51bc983a7c7cc4df704bde77.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/a98b47261df23fe6e7e4caa5cbb464c0.jpg


Rifle boolets, have many photos of PC boolets shoot into water and wet soft paper....

what alloy are you using with the 30 Hunter? Any what velocity?

[Idz]

I did a real torture test on PC. Take a look at what happens to the PC when you hit a steel plate target.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?319064-PC-sticks-really-well&highlight=

[Gamsek]

what alloy are you using with the 30 Hunter? Any what velocity?

Those are 3 different boolets, first photo (and the black one) is 308 Hunting, then 314140Sledgehammer (blue) and 180 Sil (WW dropped in cold water). All the rest is soft, 80%pure with tin+20%ww with tin.

308 Hunting is always subsonic. 189810

From ice.

[popper]

From a few years back, Lee 401, IIRC, HF white ? - into a rock pile @ ~30F. About 950 fps, HTWW with tad of Cu added. >90% wt retention. Found at the base of the rock pile. Same alloy & coating @ 2400 from 308W never did find any to recover, nor GCs. I looked hard, saw the furrow (~2' long) where they went in. SIL was using factory 115 9mm, all bent up & smashed/broken. 165gr version went through S-N a 150# pig and kept on going.
189814

[JBinMN]

Would someone please help me ID "for sure", which is the lands & which is the grooves in these pics? I think the lands are the narrow stripes & the grooves the wider ones... It appears the lands have more paint removed than the grooves.. But, is it the grooves? So, I am unsure... ??

The reason why I am asking & why I think it is important, is that I have been waiting to see what the recovered boolits look like after PC & fired. I don't recall , in the numerous reading/research of PC topics here , coming across pics like this. I am new to casting Boolits,( But not lead jigs & weights) , and I am considering doing PC for all of them if I see consistent results like what I have been seeing in this topic. I was not going to invest & attempt PC until I have researched it enough to warrant the change & investment. (my $$ are currently limited.)

I have been dipping my jigs in paint for years & then when I came here, now I see that folks have been doing a similar process with coating boolits. Quite the surprise, I must say, as I had never seen this before with boolits of any kind. I have shooters all around me, but don't know of any folks that cast around here, & to top it off PC their boolits.. (I am the only one around here that casts jigs & sinkers & paints jigs also, as far as I know.)

So, if anyone can help out in IDing which are the lands & grooves in these pics for sure, it will help with my decision making process on investing in the stuff necessary to do PC in large quantity for both boolits & jigs. I just can't seem to be able to get a good enough view, or I am having trouble with the depth perception for some reason looking at them. Maybe it is my glasses, IDK?

Anyway...
Thanks for any help here.:)

JB


.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/75c31ef867c7b46dca3cdb093f27456a.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/628ffd1b51bc983a7c7cc4df704bde77.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170205/a98b47261df23fe6e7e4caa5cbb464c0.jpg
.

[Gamsek]

Would someone please help me ID "for sure", which is the lands & which is the grooves in these pics? I think the lands are the narrow stripes & the grooves the wider ones... It appears the lands have more paint removed than the grooves.. But, is it the grooves? So, I am unsure... ??

The reason why I am asking & why I think it is important, is that I have been waiting to see what the recovered boolits look like after PC & fired. I don't recall , in the numerous reading/research of PC topics here , coming across pics like this. I am new to casting Boolits,( But not lead jigs & weights) , and I am considering doing PC for all of them if I see consistent results like what I have been seeing in this topic. I was not going to invest & attempt PC until I have researched it enough to warrant the change & investment. (my $$ are currently limited.)

I have been dipping my jigs in paint for years & then when I came here, now I see that folks have been doing a similar process with coating boolits. Quite the surprise, I must say, as I had never seen this before with boolits of any kind. I have shooters all around me, but don't know of any folks that cast around here, & to top it off PC their boolits.. (I am the only one around here that casts jigs & sinkers & paints jigs also, as far as I know.)

So, if anyone can help out in IDing which are the lands & grooves in these pics for sure, it will help with my decision making process on investing in the stuff necessary to do PC in large quantity for both boolits & jigs. I just can't seem to be able to get a good enough view, or I am having trouble with the depth perception for some reason looking at them. Maybe it is my glasses, IDK?

Anyway...
Thanks for any help here.:)

JB

189825
189826

The narrow lines on this pc bullets is from lands imprinting into them....from Ruger Ranch. Zero leading. Remember, after passage through barrel they went through wet paper, snow and some are recovered from ice. Again, PC is not pealing off.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/6e61e02aa1e22fb735549910bc868d78.jpg
Same rifle, different boolets, shoot into wet soft paper, they all have big HP and were shot at 1600fps.

[JBinMN]

Thanks Gamsek!
:)

Looks to me that the lands are getting the PC taken off in some places more than the grooves, in the bottom pic, but most of them seem to be holding up nicely. I am not sure why that would be for that to happen, other than maybe they are on the lands just a bit longer before they expand to hit the grooves from the point of their being fired, but from what I have seen so far, that is what I am thinking.. I am still trying to learn... Cool stuff though.
:)

[Motor]

Thanks Gamsek!
:)

Looks to me that the lands are getting the PC taken off in some places more than the grooves, in the bottom pic, but most of them seem to be holding up nicely. I am not sure why that would be for that to happen, other than maybe they are on the lands just a bit longer before they expand to hit the grooves from the point of their being fired, but from what I have seen so far, that is what I am thinking.. I am still trying to learn... Cool stuff though.
:)

I think some of them look pretty equal but if you think about it the lands are having a lot more "impression" on the boolits then the grooves. The lands are "bore size" the grooves are, well groove size. Example: Lands/bore=.300" Groove=.308" Boolits .309"or whatever your personal choice is.

So if you are using .309" boolits they are only being squeezed .001" by the groove diameter but are being squeezed .009" by the bore/lands.

Don't be misled by terminology either. The bullets ARE squeezed into the barrel or swedged. The grooves you see on the recovered boolits were not cut into them. The rifling does not cut the boolits the boolits are squeezed into the bore and take on the shape of the bore.


Motor

[JBinMN]

Yeah. I kind of said that wrong when I posted it. I should have said they are on the grooves before they cut into the lands. So, the lands are getting the brunt of the deal and maybe that is why they seem ( what seems to me) to be getting more wear.

It is not the first time that my words & thoughts did not match up..
I have been married for 37 years this year. Perhaps that is why....
;)
LOL

Reminds me of what I have been told more than once over the years...

" Listen to what I "mean", & not what I "say". "
LOL
:)

I still got the better part of the deal though, since an Angel was sent down from Heaven, to take care of a devil like me...
;)

Thanks for setting me straight though. Appreciate your reply!

JB
;)