Hottest 209 primer?

[Whiterabbit]

For BH209 powder of course.

I'm having ignition uniformity issues, and I have a compelling reason to use 209 in the gun. I've been using winchester primers.

So I bought a 100 pack of CCI magnum primers, and same issues.

Anything out there that is hotter?




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Some background, it's a 45 cal. Tried 60, 70 grains and never got ignition. up at 90, first few times no issue, thought I had it nailed. I guess not. last time out, ignition troubles. I might go up to 100 grains as recoil is light and since it seems the more powder the more accuracy....

But it needs to light every time. Maybe put a 5-10 grain kicker of goex at the bottom of the pipe?

[Tatume]

Could it be that the primers you are using are too hot? If the primer moves the powder charge and bullet before the charge ignites, that would cause the problem too.

Take care, Tom

[odfairfaxsub]

I used federal 209 a primers. No accuracy probs

[NSB]

Your ignition problems are probably a result of your breech plug, not the primers. Blackhorn is a bit harder to ignite than other black powder subs. Some guns actually make special BH209 plugs for their guns. You may have a gun with a long vent hole from primer to powder. If so, change the plug and your problem will go away.

[Whiterabbit]

Can't change the plug. That's why I want to explore hotter primers.

[NSB]

Can't change the plug. That's why I want to explore hotter primers.
Have you tried cleaning the vent hole to see if it makes a difference? I have to do mine every six or seven shots with BH209 (which is a clean powder by the way). It doesn't take much to close any of them up enough to cause ignition problems.

[Whiterabbit]

No, and you make a great point. When I got home from the range I did exactly that, but have not had a chance yet to see if it made any difference. But I will. Taking a two pronged approach.

[johnson1942]

if it is a inline clean the vent hole and consider enlargeing it a tiny fraction. if it is a side lock with a magspark nipple then to make the flame reach the powder faster and more complete drill a 1/32 hole into the powder chamber just ahead of the breech plug about 1/8 inch. drill it on the right side at a 45 degree angle when your looking down the barrel from the back. not at a 45 degree angle into the barrel but a 45 degree angle to the barrel. this will allow the flame to push out the sealed air in the powder as the flame comes in. much much faster ignition with that vent hole drilled into the powder chamber. works for inlines also. no more back pressure to snuff the flame out.it instantly goes into the powder with out resistance. this isnt new stuff, saw my first vent hole on a side lock built in the 1840/s. dixie gun works talked about it quite a while back in an old catalog. really really works good.

[Whiterabbit]

Having a hard time visualizing that. It's the rifle you sold me. Finally getting around to qualify it and I'm getting some really good results so far, almost rivaling my Joe Weist flintlock. But needs uniformity of reliability, and I think it will end up doing really really well. And 209 will help keep the mess down which, when I have good friends shoot it with me will hopefully help suck them into the front stuffers.

Anyways, can you tell me more about the vent hole? If I do that then won't I get a flame exhaust similar to a flintlock when it fires?

[NSB]

If this is a sidelock BH209 is not a good choice....as per everything I've ever read about using it in sidelocks. You might want to google that one and see if that's true. Yes about enlarging the hole in a sidelock. BH209 will vent too much pressure. Although BH209 is a black powder substitute, it's a very high energy substitute. It was not intended for sidelock guns.
http://www.blackhorn209.com/faqs/ Go here and check FAQ's. Question 1 might answer your questions and they have two primers they recommend. Winchester isn't one of them.

[Squeeze]

Federals are the hottest primer. Ive been shooting BH209 out of several guns with Win209 for years with no issues

[Bardo]

if it is a inline clean the vent hole and consider enlargeing it a tiny fraction. if it is a side lock with a magspark nipple then to make the flame reach the powder faster and more complete drill a 1/32 hole into the powder chamber just ahead of the breech plug about 1/8 inch. drill it on the right side at a 45 degree angle when your looking down the barrel from the back. not at a 45 degree angle into the barrel but a 45 degree angle to the barrel. this will allow the flame to push out the sealed air in the powder as the flame comes in. much much faster ignition with that vent hole drilled into the powder chamber. works for inlines also. no more back pressure to snuff the flame out.it instantly goes into the powder with out resistance. this isnt new stuff, saw my first vent hole on a side lock built in the 1840/s. dixie gun works talked about it quite a while back in an old catalog. really really works good.

Do you have pictures of this? I am interested in this process.

Thanks, Brandon

[johnson1942]

i have troubles putting pictures on the internet as my wife does it and she works full time and goes to college full time also. it is nothing new. yes a slight flame comes out if you shoot it in the dark. yeas you dont want to put a finger over the vent hole when you shoot as it will snap it good. to best explain it picture this. a side lock with a drum on it and that is easy to see in ones mind. just in front of that drum you drill into the powder chamber a 1/32 hole. it does not hurt the accracy at all or change the ft per second the bullet leaves the barrel that i can notice. what it does do and again this is not new and from the old days is, allow the trapped air behind the bullet to escape as the flame comes to the powder. with out the vent hole the flame has to fight against ever increaseing pressure as this air compresses. that compressed air can some time push the flame back toward the nipple and no ignition happens. i also find the back of the barrels are cleaner when useing real black powder. it seems to allow a cleaner combustion for what reasons i dont know. i have that 1/32 vent hole on most of my side locks. it works. use a good vice and a new sharp bit and a good drill press when drilling this hole. do it slow and with cutting oil. the hairy part is when it is about to break through into the bore. that surface is harder in bores made by a pulled button. do it slowly and with oil as that is where the bit can break. also remember the hole is their when you shoot and dont put you hand and fingers over the hole. i did that once and only once, it woke me up very quickly. again it will not hurt the gun in any way, just make ignition better and usually a cleaner barrel between shots.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

yeah what rifle are you shooting? Brand/model?

[johnson1942]

if your talking to me, all mine are custom built by me. two where built on thompson stocks and parts but with custom barrels. the rest i carved my self. the inline i gave my son and he gave back to me is custom built also. all the sidelocks have magspark nipples and they fire every time with blackhorn 209 powder. one cva inline i have needed a 209 breechplug and with that breech plug it goes off every time. i have a assortment of 209 primers and they all work.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

no, was asking the original poster what rifle he has.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

..........double post....

[Omnivore]

209s are already far hotter than the #11 percussion caps that thousands of people use without problems. If you think you need a hotter 209 then something is definitely wrong with either your gun or your loading practices, or both.

[Whiterabbit]

...thousands of people use #11 caps with BH209 powder?

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

if you told us what rifle you are trying to use bh209 is that would be the best way to get some help on the issue of it not firing.

[sourdough44]

Yeah, maybe the gun/ignition system isn't compatible with B209? You can check on the B209 site to see the type of guns and breech plugs that are compatible.

B209 also likes a firm pack under the bullet. I use CCIM primers with 100% ignition in all conditions. I use a Knight Elite/Extreme.

[Screwbolts]

BH209 also wants a very tight sabot boolit combo. IMHO if it isn't taking at least 45 pounds of pressure to push the Saboted boolit down the barrel it wont matter what you try and light BH209 with. With out heavy compression and tight fitting load, you will have inconsistent ignition.

Ken

[OverMax]

Suggested:> Federal. ~~Still no resolved.> (See below)
Retire the old rifle>and buy new.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

non sense. I can load the federal bor lock with FINGER pressure, ONE finger and she goes off every time with a CCI 209 Magnum primer. Breech plug set up is most likely the issue, IF its a 209 gun.

[jjarrell]

Ive had this happen with one. Use the little set of files for cleaning an acetylene torch. The files are designed to clean slag out of the brass cutting tips of the torch and wont hog out the flash hole in your breach plug. It will however remove any burs or obstructions that could prevent a clean path to the powder charge. The manufacturers machining process isn't always flawless and you can have burs. Go to a hardware store and ask them for a set of tip cleaners for a torch.

[10 ga]

besides "hot" primer you need to build pressure to ignite BH209. Make sure flame channel is absolutely clear, flame channel less than 1 in long and you have tight load to build pressure. Otherwise you will have problems. Also bullets for BH209 in a 50 cal should be 300 grains or heavier. Lighter bullets will cause inconsistent ignition. Otherwise go to a HIS ignition system. Been there done that. 10 ga