44-40 bullet casing and loads

[gunnut1]

Hey y'all!

Hello for Texas!

I have been gathering up items so I can get started in CAS. Cowboy Action Shooting. Fortune has fially smilled on me and I lhave accured all of the necessary shooting irons. I have a Cimmaron Evil Roy Modle P in 44-40. I also have a Cimmaron 1866 Goldenboy also in 44-40. Yesterday, I bought another Model P in 44-40. Got a twice hole side by side shotty also.

OK now for the question. I have had the Evil Roy 44-40 for a couple of years. I originally bought loaded ammo from Buffalo Arms. I shot most of that not it is time to reload. Here is what I am reloading:

5.5 grains of Titegroup under a 200 grain lead bullet.

I am using a Dick Dastardly Mav Dutchman bullet mould. I lube with SPG because that is what I have. (I had a 45-120 Sharps I did some reloading for.)

I loaded about 100 rounds and shot them and they functioned fine.

My question is this. I know with black powder you need to fill the cartridge case to prevent high pressure. 5.5 grains of smokeless powder kind of dissappears in the 44-40 case. However, I am unsure about this using nitro powder. Is it necessary to use a filler with smokeless powder? Did I just get lucky me guns did not become scrap metal when I shot the newly loaded smokeless rounds? I have loaded thousands of "standard modern" cartridges but this is the first time I have loaded a "Cowboy" round.

[hockeynick39]

Your best bet to run smokeless is probably going to be Trailboss or IMR4227 or like burning rate powders. They fill the case appropriately and almost all of the powder is burned. 200 gr. .428" LFN was usually the load at roughly ~1250 fps if I remember correctly and either of those powders will work very well. Good luck and stay safe.

[lobogunleather]

I shoot .44-40 in an original Colt Single Action Army "Frontier Six Shooter" (born in 1914) and an original Marlin Model 1894 (born in 1905). I don't want to stress these old antique guns so I stay on the light side of powder charges. After tinkering with several powders and charges I settled on 6.5 grains of Unique with the 240-grain cast RN-FP. So far that is working nicely in both of my guns.

Lots of unused space in the cartridge case, but no filler. No problems with ignition or combustion.

[Jim K.]

I am also loading a 44-40 for Cowboy Action. Using a couple Ruger Vaquero's and a Uberti 1873 rifle. Also using a "Twice Barreled Hammered Carbine" in 12 gauge.
Also using the Marv Dutchman mold. Slug your barrel's....the Rugers are .429 and the Uberti is .430 so I am rising to .431

The 5.5 grain of Titegroup will work fine with no filler and is a pleasure to shoot.
I like to shoot APP with this cartridge and the large lube grove of this bullet is perfect for it. I do prefer Dick Dastardly's Pearl Lube.

[Wayne Smith]

To specifically answer no, you don't need filler with smokeless. As long as the primer ignites the powder it's all you need. If you get delayed ignition you need an easier to ignite powder. It is only with BP that you need to fill the case.

[runfiverun]

your load is fine.
DO NOT add a filler with the titegroup powder you will not like the results.
if the boolit has a crimp groove make sure you use it.
and before resizing take a pair of needle nose pliers and make sure the case mouth is rounded out, you'll crunch them to tears if you don't.

[gpidaho]

Your load works great in my 44-40 and as others mentioned Trail Boss is made for cowboy action loads. My favorite is 5.5 Trail Boss. I powder coat my Boolits so I can use the Redding competition bullet seating die. Just the ticket for those thin necks.Gp

[w30wcf]

gunnut1,
Welcome to the forum! USE NO FILLER as the pards have indicated. Titegroup and similar faster burning powders were developed to work with airspace. A filler with such powders will raise pressures dramatically!:shock:

Make sure that you don't accidentally double charge a case.:shock:

Personally, one of my favorite .44-40 loads is 6.0/Titegroup under a 200 gr cast bullet. It runs about 1150 from a 24" barrel and is very accurate. :D :D

Have fun!
w30wcf

[Aviator747]

I just ordered myself some Starline brass and a Lee 429-200RF 6 cavity mould. I acquired a genuine 1892 Winchester lever action last summer that needs to be fed. I have yet to fire it. I am not a cowboy action shooting. This will be for plinking. I am leaning to using smokeless, I haven't settled on what yet. I know the original load is 40gr of ffg, but modern cases can't hold that much. I may make some up to test, since I have some bp for my snider carbine.

[Reverend Al]

I have 7 guns chambered in .44-40 so I've had a long term "love / hate" relationship going on with this cartridge for many years! I do like the cartridge and I sure enjoy shooting the guns I have that are chambered in it (several original '92 Winchester lever actions, a Remington model 14 1/2 pump, and a pair of 5 1/2" barrelled Uberti SAA clones), BUT there are some things that I find quite annoying about the .44-40 brass. They are VERY thin at the mouth and are easily damaged in handing (as empty brass) and they are often damaged or outright destroyed when the thin, fragile case mouths get badly "dinged" coming out of the '92 action after firing. The case mouths are very fragile and so are easy to damage in the loading process. Since the .44-40 brass is so thin at the mouth they will often split when being expanded, especially if you over-expand them to seat large diameter (.430") lead bullets attempting to get best accuracy in old and worn bores, so you should anneal your brass regularly, and keeping all of your cases trimmed to the same uniform length is crucial. The thin case mouths are easily damaged during bullet seating and crimping if all of your cases aren't carefully trimmed to a uniform length. Varying case lengths can cause bulging at the crimp when you run into long cases and short cases might not get enough crimp to hold the bullets tightly in the case mouth when they are being used in tubular magazines. (And these old lever guns in .44-40 often hold 10 to 14 rounds in the magazine under compression putting a lot of pressure on the bullets seated in the case mouths.) Repeated sizing, expanding and belling of the thin case mouths often causes shortened case life and splits in the case mouths are fairly common, so again you might want to consider annealing your brass fairly regularly to extend the case life.

Even having said all that, I still do love this old cartridge a great deal and as long as you are aware of it's "quirks" and make sure that you load appropriately to allow for them it is a very accurate cartridge and quite enjoyable to shoot. The good news is thanks to the popularity of Cowboy Action Shooting these days .44-40 brass is very plentiful now and not too expensive so you can afford to loose a few of them during the loading and shooting process. "Unique" is pretty much my "go to" powder for the .44-40 cartridge too, and I've loaded 6.5 grains with a 200 grain (RCBS) boolit for an old 1873 rifle mfg in 1891 to keep the pressures low, but I often increase that charge to 8.0 or 9.0 grains for the stronger '92's and the Remington pump. If you have any available to you "Herco" has also worked well for me and is just a bit slower burning than "Unique" so it yields even lower pressures if that is any concern.

Cheers, and enjoy shooting your .44-40's!

Al

[Aviator747]

Thanks for the tips. Annealing isn't a big deal. I do it for my .303 British and Snider carbine. Have you ever tried h4895?

[runfiverun]

I know 4895 works kinda in the 44 mag.
but you may have some unburned powder to deal with in the 44-40.
I'd stick to the pistol powders and pick the same ones you use for your 357/45 colt.

[Wayne Smith]

I load mine with the MAV boolit and 38gr FFG Goex. That is the most I can get in the case without buldging the case when I compress the powder. I made a compression die out of an old 44 caliber seat die I had. I filled the open seat stem with a hard compound and it works well. The Lee Factory Crimp die works well on this caliber, too. It is the rifle die.

[victorfox]

Reverend Al, you tell us you have a Rem 14, am right? As a matter of fact a friend of mine has one too the only one I have ever seem in my life. I'm always annoying him if he ever sell this gun he should give me preference.As the OP 44-40,is loaded here in BR with 6,6gr under 200gr with no filler, powder similar to Clays, W231 or Red Dot, no filler, 1200fps