22 ammo article in Rifle magazine

[Bob Busetti]

Once again a magazine has an article about various 22 ammo that I have never seen offered anywhere. 22 ammo still tight around here. Seen some for $50 a brick + tax. It seems the .10 to .18 per round will be the norm from here on .

[shooterg]

Saw one write up on some new kind of Winchester .22. WTHeck . They can't make enough of the old !

[runfiverun]

hang on I have been seeing it at the stores off and on and seeing enough I walk on past it towards stuff I need.
7-9 cents has been the price on everything from the 325 or 550 packs and on the 1400 count buckets depending on who made it.
give it a bit to settle down.

[Earlwb]

I see it showing up, going away and coming back too. I saw that Academy out here had the bulk boxes of the stuff, but I have some already, so I wasn't too interested in adding more to my pile. Now at the large Cabelas and Bass Pro stores, they tend to have the expensive foreign made .22's for target and match shooting. But they were out of the bulk packs for now. Dick's tended to have just the 50 and 100 round boxes but no bulk at this time either. So anyway the ammo companies are shipping the stuff out, it just shows up at the stores at different times.

[stubbicatt]

Heh. While maybe not a good economical choice, I have found that by simply purchasing an old Winder musket, I have really reduced my ammunition bill~! A single shot rifle while not exactly cheap, does reduce the amount of ammo one shoots on a given day of plinking!

At least when I compare it to a 10-22 with a long banana clip... ;)

[Mica_Hiebert]

Don't pay more than $30 a brick. Any more is highway robery!

[Earlwb]

I wonder how much trouble a .22 muzzleloader would be using black powder.
I was thinking that one could use #4 or #3 shot as used by shotguns.
Usually with black powder the smallest barrel bore was .36 as the smaller it gets the faster it fouls on you.
But maybe with these new substitute black powder substances it isn't as big a deal.
Granted they do make #000 buck shot which is about .36 caliber, so it may be more practical then.
Using a inline muzzleloader could let you use regular shotgun primers too.

[oldred]

You know that sounds like a great idea! The biggest drawback to the really small bore MLs was fouling but with a non-fouling and pretty much noncorrosive powder like Blackhorn 209 that might just be the cat's meow! I bet with a well built rifle a person could easily exceed even HV 22 RF and maybe even approach 22 Magnum performance if they had a need.

Dang it, just what I need, another project!!!!

[PerpetualStudent]

A 36 cal muzzleloader is on my list of firearms to acquire. I know you can also get them in .32 cal which is about 00 buck but I was advised that the .32 is a bit more of the PITA and a lot easier to break the ramrod.

A .22 roundball driven by a shotgun primer...hmmm. I wonder how much oomph you'd get from the primer alone.

[Earlwb]

Yeah I was thinking about that too. You know, One could likely just use a Thompson Center single shot already chambered in one of the larger case .22 calibers and simply machine a case blank to fit. The case blank setup is like a dummy round. But you bore a hole through it and machine a hole on the end to fit a shotgun primer. Then you can use non-permanent locktite to lock the case blank in position. But if one got ambitious they could machine up a batch of case conversions to use as a breechloader as well.

Heck it might work with low charges of smokeless powder like that too. But one can use black powder or one of the BP substitutes. That is nice to know about that 209 powder being less dirty too.

You arew correct, I had not thought about it, but the shotgun primer might be enough to power a small .22 ball down the barrel without any powder charge, or at least a tiny amount maybe. One thought was that the old .22 CB caps used just the primer and no propellant. A shotgun primer ought to be quite a bit more powerful than the rimfire primer in a .22 FR.

I will have to look and see what size case for a .22 centerfire rifle would fit a shotgun primer OK.

[Blanket]

I made an inline using a 22 rifle barrel threaded for a musket nipple and shot 22 pellets out of it 30 years ago. The kids liked it at our muzzleloader shoots. Worked well

[oldred]

That insert could be machined to a close fit and installed with an O-ring providing the seal making removal much more convenient.

The scaled down switch barrel HighWall project I did a couple of years ago would be the perfect candidate since it would involve only making the right barrel with a breechplug fitted for a shotgun primer, I have already tossed around the idea of an inline ML based on a HighWall for a couple of years now. The idea was to just have a plugged breech for muzzle loading then load and extract the shotgun primer just like one would with a 22 LR, the lip on the primer would provide a means for the extractor to work just as with a cartridge case and just thinking about it the 22 Mag extractor already there might even work as is.


I was advised that the .32 is a bit more of the PITA and a lot easier to break the ramrod


That could be a big problem, likely much more so with that little 22 bore, and just might be a fatal flaw to the idea. Still a 22 ML is an extremely interesting idea, now if I can just get these dang farmers and their broken tractors to leave me alone long enough!

[aspangler]

I built a 32 side lock and have to wipe or brush about every 3 shoots or it is hard to get the ball down the bore. That said it IS cheap and very accurate. the barrel was just laying around at the shop and we decided it needed to be used. Barrel is AT LEAST 100 years old and hand forged and rifled. It will shoot 1 hole 5 shot groups at 50 if I do my part. Slow and slow to load due to the wiping but it's worth it.

[dtknowles]

my inline uses shotgun primers and if it had a .22 barrel you could breach seat a .22 bullet just ahead of the primer. Of course then it would not be a muzzle loader anymore. Someone could design one from scratch. I don't see how any of this is better than a .22 hornet.

Tim

[PerpetualStudent]

Well if you can get a back of F buckshot and primers you could plink for what .22 used to cost. The big advantage wouldn't be for most members of this forum who can already load cat sneeze loads or full power loads fairly cheaply, it would be for more casual shooters who are missing being on the range but can't afford to plink at current ammo prices, nor can they afford sink 150 bucks into reloading equipment.

Breach or muzzleloading, anything that makes it easier to get trigger time is good by me.

[WILCO]

Once again a magazine has an article about various 22 ammo that I have never seen offered anywhere. 22 ammo still tight around here.

The world doesn't stop spinning because of short supplies.
Magazines still have to generate income, so they'll report on products not yet available.
At the end of the day, it all equals out.

[Earlwb]

That is a good point there dtknowles. One could slip in the bullet and then the shotgun primer. yeah that does make sense too. Not a bad idea at all.

[dtknowles]

That is a good point there dtknowles. One could slip in the bullet and then the shotgun primer. yeah that does make sense too. Not a bad idea at all.

I wonder if anyone has a handi rifle with a .22 rf barrel and a centerfire frame, they might be good to go.

Tim

[PerpetualStudent]

I think there's a good bit of merit to both ideas.

With some rifled muzzleloaders, particularly round ball ones, you didn't have a patch. Instead you swaged your round ball on the way down and I remember reading that this lead to really good accuracy.

The other idea is almost a "cat sneeze only" reloadable cartridge. Sort of the wax bullet cartridges with some punch that doesn't require a normal reloading setup. Given that we're on year 8 of the .22lr shortage doesn't sound like a bad idea for plinking purposes. Or for new shooters who want to be able to shoot regularly.

[JSH]

I opted for a 22 hornet myself. I already had a good quality .177 pistol and rifle.
Mall the talk and cost on building a 22 or 32 and a fellow would be about break even on one of the good .22 air guns.
dont forget the 17 and 22 cooper. Brass was such a PITA years back or I would already own one.

[Char-Gar]

Heh. While maybe not a good economical choice, I have found that by simply purchasing an old Winder musket, I have really reduced my ammunition bill~! A single shot rifle while not exactly cheap, does reduce the amount of ammo one shoots on a given day of plinking!

At least when I compare it to a 10-22 with a long banana clip... ;)

I have never owned a semi-auto 22, nor do I ever plan to. I was taught as a kid that every rifle, regardless of caliber is a single shot. Magazines of whatever type are just convenient ways to carry extra ammo in the field. Concentrate on each shot ,like it will be the only one you will ever get at the target. Discipline in the field or on the range is what I was taught.

When I was a kid, I would spent the afternoon after jackrabbits, and such an afternoon would expend 6 to 8 rounds with that many jacks dead. a 50 round box seemed like an endless supply of ammo and fun.

Life at it's essence is a head game and that includes shooting and the expenditure of ammo.

[Earlwb]

I remember as a kid, I could go for two weeks or more with a box of .22's to hunt with. I wasn't always successful at bagging the rabbits though.
I used a old Winchester single shot .22 at the time.

Yeah I have seen folks really rapid fire their semi-autos a lot. That can consume a lot of rounds in short order. With the bigger center fire cartridges watching them eat up a $100 or more at one session shooting too.

[327magrifle]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160328/abbf5056a52ce4a542e04693a755cb53.jpg I built this little rifle on the Stevens Crack shot number 26 patterns from Frank DeHaas a few years ago, it fires .22 round balls with just a shotgun primer at around 750 fps. Sudden death on rabbits out to 40 yrds.

[straightwall]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160328/abbf5056a52ce4a542e04693a755cb53.jpg I built this little rifle on the Stevens Crack shot number 26 patterns from Frank DeHaas a few years ago, it fires .22 round balls with just a shotgun primer at around 750 fps. Sudden death on rabbits out to 40 yrds.

Cool rifle! I have a Stevens 30G from 2004 in .22lr. It is still my teenage kids' favorite rifle.
Where do you find .22 cal round balls?

[327magrifle]

I buy them from Pyramid Air about 4 tins at a time, to get their discount.

[327magrifle]

I killed 25 rabbits with it the first year.

[dtknowles]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160328/abbf5056a52ce4a542e04693a755cb53.jpg I built this little rifle on the Stevens Crack shot number 26 patterns from Frank DeHaas a few years ago, it fires .22 round balls with just a shotgun primer at around 750 fps. Sudden death on rabbits out to 40 yrds.

That's what I was talking about.

Tim

[PerpetualStudent]

That's awesome. You say from patterns, so you made it? Or you converted it? Either way, I'd like more information. Barrel Twist rate. How you load it. Pics of the build if you've got'em.

Sorry if I sound demanding but that's such an awesome project that I'd love to copy you. Here .22 is still 25 cents a bang when you find it. So even counting the cost of the build it might be a depressingly small number of shots before I start coming out ahead.

[327magrifle]

I will find the disassembly pics when I get home tonight make up my own thread too.

[northmn]

In response to the muzzleloader comments. I built a 25 that uses #3 buckshot a while back and killed a few squirrels with it. The ball wieghs in at 22 grains or so. The 25's have been called "supercharged shorts" in muzzleloading circles. Would work best with 4f but as it is a flinlock the 4 f dribbles through the touch hole. I compared it to a standard load hp in a 22 LR in wetpack and it did not penetrate quite as much (the 25 chronographs at over 1600fps) but it blew about the same sized hole. A 22 ML might be a fun plinker but its a bit light and the 25 is finiky about the powder as to fouling. Get the best results with 3f Grafs (schuetzen) powder. The original 22 long rifle was loaded with something like 4f maybe finer BP.
While I do like to plink with a 22 mostly my use is in pistol carry off the 4 wheeler/tractor and rifle rounds. The LGS carried a better sellection of 22 ammo than I have seen in some time. Blazers are getting more affordable but are the unplated bullets. The CCI 22 Velocitors are available but are about $10 per box of 50. I am not really a high volume user and expect the current prices to be about what one can expect. The LGS had them in before anyone else but they were at the current prices. Kind of wonder if other stores just don't want to handle them at the prices as REEDS has plenty of them.

DP

[oldred]

What I had in mind would use BH209 so fouling should not be a problem and I would think that much better performance could be attained over real Black, perhaps not? I was thinking that due to the small bore a very strong action should be easy allowing at least 22 LR performance with the right bullet and BH209 with possibly even better velocities, again perhaps not?

I think the key would be to use a bullet similar to a LR round and the 209 powder vs a round ball and real Black but then I am just speculating.

[Lucky Joe]

This link will take you to a page which talks about a .22 cal. BP rifle. I had the chance to buy one back in the late 70's and passed, mistake. I also have the complete write up on this gun designed by Dick Casull.

https://www.gunandgame.com/threads/rocky-mountain-arms-blackpowder-rifles.40050/

[Earlwb]

I remember that RMAC .22 rifle. I thought it was quite interesting. But they quit making them by the time I got out of the USMC. So I missed out on it.
That happens to me a lot. By the time I get the money to get something it is gone.

So it looks real promising, we have more than one way to skin the cat, so to speak, about coming up with something like this to shoot.

[northmn]

I have no idea as to how powerful a 22 using a shotgun primer only would be. Seems to me I heard of one using 22 pellet gun pellets. Actually for a lot of uses a good pellet rifle is pretty handy. I have taken squirrels when they were pests around the house with a 17 cal that was supposed to be at about 800 fps. Some of the newer ones at about 1000 would likely work better. I have seen 22 cal pellet rifles and I saw one used many years ago that was pretty effective. If you are close they take out small game likde squirrels and rabbits pretty well and are very accurate.
I could make a 22 ML if I had to that could use bullets. But are there molds for them? By the time I bought caps and powder I think I will just stay with the 22 LR.

DP

[RoyEllis]

Built one of these (sorry don't have working camera right now to post pics) using an 8mm Mauser barrel. Silly thing shoots well & cheaply to boot.
164835164836164837164838

[fineredmist_7]

I started a thread in the gunsmithing section so I wouldn't hijack

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?303510-My-22-short-replacement&p=3596681#post3596681

[Earlwb]

I have no idea as to how powerful a 22 using a shotgun primer only would be. Seems to me I heard of one using 22 pellet gun pellets. Actually for a lot of uses a good pellet rifle is pretty handy. I have taken squirrels when they were pests around the house with a 17 cal that was supposed to be at about 800 fps. Some of the newer ones at about 1000 would likely work better. I have seen 22 cal pellet rifles and I saw one used many years ago that was pretty effective. If you are close they take out small game likde squirrels and rabbits pretty well and are very accurate.
I could make a 22 ML if I had to that could use bullets. But are there molds for them? By the time I bought caps and powder I think I will just stay with the 22 LR.

DP

One of the people posted about their rifle above, a .22 round ball and shotgun primer was good for about 750 fps. That looks to be in the .22 short range of speed. Or maybe a .22 CB cap. I would expect that one grain of Unique or Red Dot would have it pushing 1000 fps.

Actually this concept is for .22's costing more than centerfire cartridges or becoming very difficult to impossible to get. Some locales or states may figure out a way to get the ammo banned or restricted somehow. For example, one technique is to tax ammo at a high rate like they do with tobacco products.

But this looks to be a really fun project too.

[Earlwb]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160328/abbf5056a52ce4a542e04693a755cb53.jpg I built this little rifle on the Stevens Crack shot number 26 patterns from Frank DeHaas a few years ago, it fires .22 round balls with just a shotgun primer at around 750 fps. Sudden death on rabbits out to 40 yrds.

That sure turned out really nice. Kudos to you for making it. It looks great and works great too.

[Clay M]

I am trying to accumulate a case of CCI Standard Velocity .22 LR There is better ammo out there ,but for the money I haven't found it.
My Ruger 10/.22 target rifle likes it.

It may take me an hour to shoot fifty rounds.

I like Standard velocity best. That is what I shot in my Rem 40X many years ago.

I already have plenty of junk ammo, so I never buy any of the cheap stuff.

A brick of the CCI runs about $45.00

[Doc Highwall]

Here is a article on 22lr ammo.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/22lr-rimfire-ammo-comparison-test/

I have been buying Norma TAC-22 ammo that shoots very good, last price was $495 a case and with shipping was $532 delivered.

[Clay M]

Here is a article on 22lr ammo.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/22lr-rimfire-ammo-comparison-test/

I have been buying Norma TAC-22 ammo that shoots very good, last price was $495 a case and with shipping was $532 delivered.

Norma Tac is great ammo, shoots better than the CCI Standard in some of my guns.

[Earlwb]

It seems that most of the .22 LR's that fly in the range of 950 fps through1060 fps or so tend to be quite accurate. The Bass Pro store out here near me gets in the CCI standard velocity 22's from time to time. It tends to be in stock when most everything else is sold off right away too. I think the "Standard Velocity" tends to make people shy away from it. The Cabelas out here near me tends to have a lot of the expensive Ely types of 22's to sell in stock. The high prices tend to keep people from buying it of course, especially with some costing $20 a box of 50. But the stuff is amazingly accurate though. I think if one uses a single shot, they get the time to prepare and think about every shot they fire downrange. So 50 rounds can wear one out after a while. That's a lot of serious concentration for each shot.