Reform .223 to .222

[buggybuilder]

Reforming .223 to .222 a big job? Can I just push the shoulders back, increasing the length of the neck by just using a .222 die? Would I have to trim inside or outside of the neck for a standard chambered .222?

[atr]

I too have been wondering about reforming .223 to .222. Looking at the cases I think we would have to anneal the .223 first and then reform. Also looks like the reformed cases will have to be trimmed to length. Wondering out loud if some of the case shortening could be done before annealing/reforming.
Hopefully this thread goes somewhere
atr

[country gent]

I have doone it and its not a big job to accomplish. Anneal cases just below shoulder forward ( this softens the brass helping with the forming). deburr and chamfer case mouths ( this helps brass to flow and slip thru the die easier). Size to new shoulder length headspace with out expander ball ( set it to where your rifle just closes lightly snug on the new cases. No Expander ball dosnt expand necks up yet allowing a freeer fit on the case in the chamber). Check neck wall thickness since most of the new neck will be what was shoulder before ( thiere may be a thick area that will need a light ream or neck turning due to the shoulder being sized down). Trim to length and fire form cases to new chamber,

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It should be possible with just the standard sizing die. Annealing the shoulder is unlikely to be needed to prevent brass loss, but may improve its life, and can't do any harm. I would try one or two unannealed, and see if there is any creasing of the shoulder.

I can't be sure whether you would have to neck ream or turn. But the database in my Load from a Disk programme gives them the same neck diameter (.253in.) and the same thickness of wall (.032in. just forward of the head and .016in. just behind the shoulder). I imagine these measurements come from SAAMI, and it is unlikely that work on the neck would be necessary if your .223 brass conformed to the behind-the-shoulder one.

But the brass, especially if military, could easily be thicker at the near-the-head point. In this case it won't complicate the forming job, but will slightly reduce capacity. You should check this before loading a standard .222 charge.

[GRUMPA]

If you folks read my signature you'll notice I convert those.

First off......I NEVER anneal the case first, last yes, but first never.
REASON: Even new cases fail the conversion process, I want the weaker case to fail, and annealing at times will collapse the case when trying to form.

I use the 22 Rem jet forming dies and do the squeezing down gently.

Once that parts done I run them through an altered 222Rem sizer die with the expander rod removed. I do it this way because on a lot of brass once you push back the shoulder the brass gets thicker. Sometimes a chamber will except the loaded round, sometimes it wont. When I make things for other people they need to be all the same and as good or better than factory brass. Once I ream them I put the expander rod back in the die and size them again.

Then it's trimming and cleaning.

Then it's time to anneal...

If your using 1x fired brass and there's a deflector ding next to the shoulder, don't use it....it'll only get worse.

[floydboy]

I make all my 222 from 223. I just use a FL 222 die. I found Grumpas sizing lube to be much better than the other stuff I was using. I only size about a quarter turn of the die or less at a time. Take your time and very few will have wrinkles in the neck. Small wrinkles don't seem to matter with accuracy though I don't like them cosmetically and strive to eliminate them. If you don't crank the die down too much at a time you can make perfect cases almost every time. I don't anneal before or after. I do neck turn to get rid of the thick areas you will have. Trim to length when done. I use mine for cast loads and get very good life out of my cases. Takes awhile and you may tend to get in a hurry as you tire. I usually do mine during the winter when I'm bored and when I get tired do something else. If you screw the die down too much you will get wrinkles.

Floyd

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Once that parts done I run them through an altered 222Rem sizer die with the expander rod removed. I do it this way because on a lot of brass once you push back the shoulder the brass gets thicker. .



It does indeed. On the basis of the dimensions I found for the .222 and .223, the neck dimensions are the same, and are thicker than for the case behind the shoulder. Necking down thickens the neck. But if the case body thickness really is .016in. for both cases at that point, I think we can take it that we will neck it down to the same neck dimensions.

[merlin101]

I guess I should dig out that gallon sized zip-lock bag full of once fired .222 brass and put it for sale.

[M-Tecs]

I guess I should dig out that gallon sized zip-lock bag full of once fired .222 brass and put it for sale.

Yup....

[atr]

Yup!...

[Iowa Fox]

Making 222 from 223 is very easy. If you have the right dies that is. 20 to 25 years ago there were many mature machinists that were active shooters that had very talented thinking and machining skills. Sad part is they have all passed on. I'm glad I latched onto many different case forming dies all home made. After I got the dies I started playing with range pick up for practice, you will learn what brass will do and won't do with no financial expenditure . I never anneal before forming, after yes. I can make 17 Mach1V from range pick up military 223 with no sweat. Hardest part used to be cutting the cases off. I now have a Harbor Freight mini saw so that jobs not so bad anymore. Turning necks? Well sometimes and sometimes no. You have to measure the neck in your chamber. A lot of the factory chambers are so sloppy the formed cases with a thicker neck are a blessing. Case forming is like so many things in this hobby and others, a dying art. I know Grumpa is a case former because what he says is what I have found to work for me. I'm sure you can use a combination of seating dies and sizing dies but it just isn't as easy. New brass has gotten hard to come by again plus its expensive. If I can't make cases from the 223-308- or 30/06 chances are I'm not buying that firearm just because of brass availability today.

[skeettx]

EASY
I used a RCBS trim die
http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/501782/rcbs-trim-die-222-remington
Small jewelers hack saw
and final trimmed and chamfered
DONE

[GRUMPA]

There's something that a lot of folks just don't understand when it comes to case forming. Rarely and I mean RARELY is case forming as simple as getting just 1 die and forming the parent case into something new.

Another thing: People just don't seem to grasp that using let's say LC brass compared to Winchester brass produces the same results. It doesn't happen that way folks.

Every time you change 1 thing you change another, in other words if you change something your technique changes slightly in other ways.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It is a very good idea to work out your technique with a substantial supply of one brand of brass, and stick to it. But in a relatively simple se-forming job like this, it is very unlikely that the choice of brand will come between possible and impossible.

The trim die, or a Lyman hand or electric trimmer, would be a convenience but I think the standard FL die is all you really need. But I do get the impression that the occasional talented and mature machinist is still to be found on these boards.

[Screwbolts]

Grumpa as usual is correct!

I have made a lot of 222 brass from OF 223/5.56. end results and steps required depend on the lot of brass and nothing else. I to always anneal last, if you anneal first, or I should say when i tried annealing first, failer from folds and wrinkles is much higher.

Ken

[GRUMPA]

When folks come up with wanting to convert there own brass sometimes I'll take a back seat and just read. People don't understand that even on this thread there are so many variables, that when I add things, it looks like I lawyer-ed up and next thing you know there's a ton of disclaimers.

On an ordinary piece of 223 or 5.56 brass, many times a person can measure the brass thickness of the neck, but not the shoulder thickness. Many times brass gets thicker on factory brass right at the shoulder angle, and naturally when a person creates a new shoulder which is lower than the existing shoulder of the parent case, the brass does get thicker. Just depends on what you start out with, and of course the chamber of your gun. Like I said some will accept a slightly larger diameter neck, and then there's some that wont, you just take your chances.

That's why I ream the necks in the procedure I outlined, I want them all the same.

Some people say it's easy by just doing this or that, and it probably is for what they own. That's not taking into account he may own a Remington but think about that Savage, or Winchester rifle that you own, you think it has the same chamber dimensions?

Head stamp plays a role in this, things like your die settings will need to be changed slightly. Some brass is harder to move than others, so for instance a person is using LC brass, the same die settings don't apply to using R-P or Winchester brass. And don't think for a minute that W.C.C. is going to react the same as Winchester head stamped brass.....It wont.

If someone uses foreign brass, depending on head stamp, is an utter nightmare with results ranging from mild to wild.

I use case gauges and indicators whenever I convert 1 thing to another. I have to monitor the new gauge dimension, and using mix and match brass is next to impossible to hold the gauge dimension.

Here's what I mean by the gauge dimension. Look for the .3512 diameter at the neck, then follow the line till it intersects with the 1.0818-.007 dimension. Those 2 dimensions are what's known as the gauge dimension, which.....is called out halfway up the shoulder angle and NOT the shoulder location.

I know it's a picture of the 300 Blackout, it's the easiest 1 to read that I have, but it applies to what I'm saying.

http://s1193.photobucket.com/user/grumpaboo/media/300blk03opjpg.png.html

I can't post the picture, it shows a broken link so you'll need to click on it and look at it.

When I convert 1 thing into another, that's the dimension I hold according to the SAAMI spec. according to the given case.

[Iowa Fox]

http://i64.tinypic.com/246nokh.png

[GRUMPA]

Thanks Iowa Fox....for some reason for the past couple of weeks I can't post photos on this site, keeps showing a broken link.

[EDG]

I make .222s using a .256 Win die as the first die. Then a .222 trim die before FL sizing.

[atr]

Tried annealing first,,,then not annealing.....
tried incremental sizing
I am consistently getting wrinkles at the neck/shoulder
not as easy as one might think !

3/25 @0732 hrs
I just tried a different approach...I first cut the neck down on the military case...I cut it back about 3/16" ...then I sized slowly....NO wrinkles in the neck/shoulder...
the case fits tight in the chamber,,I could close the bolt but it took some pressure on the bolt handle

3/25 AT 1417 hrs
I annealed the formed case and ran it through the die one last time....now it chambers easily
atr

[Harter66]

Here's my .02 . Don't use a late model Lee sizer die for this . The vent hole is wrong and it scars badly . That said the 50 or so I made for a 340 Savage in 222 took about 75 cases . The 256 Winchester mag step helps but you must be attentive of where you lube and how much . Good gravy the lube dents ,may as well have used a ball peen hammer. Of course lube dents lead to creases the number 1 fail for.my adventure.

At the end Grumpa has sound advice follow his guidance and you'll get 9.2/10 like clock work instead of my blind hopping around at just over 2 outta 3.

[HangFireW8]

I've made quite a few 222's from 223's. I've been using non-NATO milspec brass, which is already annealed to below the shoulder. I like to use brass that doesn't have 5.56 or 223 on the headstamp, so a future user should make no assumptions as to what cartridge they have.

Mine haven't need neck trimming, but as Grumpa said, that doesn't mean yours won't.

Some have little wrinkles on the shoulder. These are not a big deal, they iron out on the first shot.

EDIT: Have to agree with Harter66: don't use a late model Lee die for case reforming. I would add, don't use an early model Lee die. They are fine for normal work, at least no worse than any other sizer ball FL die.

[atr]

my system seems to be working....I reformed 20 rounds yesterday evening and had no rejects.
I made a little jig to help with the initial cutting of the neck of the .223...the jig helps set the amount of cut-off,,I am using my table saw with a metal cutting disk....works great.
then resizing in incremental steps without the expanding plug
then resizing with the expanding plug
then trim to length
then anneal
then swage the primer pocket
the cut a slight bevel on the primer pocket with a box knife

1520 HRS 3-30-2016
Just finished shooting the box of 20....(ok they were J's)....wanted to check for any splitting after firing..none observed.
rounds were on target at 100 yds.

[10x]

following this one with interest

[Thin Man]

The wise man listens to the voice of experience. Grumpa is on target with annealing after moving the shoulder. I discovered this around 6-7 years ago when reforming 223 into 222. I had not learned about annealing at that time, so I didn't. Practically every piece of brass split on the first shot. Lesson learned and now I am doing a more appropriate job of caliber alteration with my cases. Now if I had just read a bit in this thread area before altering those 223 cases..... (sigh).

Thin Man