Going to try and build a casting machine and sizer

[Tazza]

As the topic says, i'm going to have a shot and building a casting machine based on a master caster. I have a MC that is automated, i want to have a go at building two friends for it. I picked up the main parts to do the build, i just need to work out how to put them together.

To go with the casting machine(s) i want to build a sizer, i have a motor to drive it and the start of the design in my head. The only limiting factor to all of this is time. It's going to take a while, but with a bit of luck i'll get there.

As there are a few members here that like to make their own gear, i figured some may be interested in this project. Either it will work, or fail miserably :)

So far this is what i have on hand to start:
Heating bands for the pot:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/tazza_/Casting%20machine%20and%20sizer/20160323_151951.jpg

Electric motor for the sizer and a piece of pipe to make two pots with. Just the right size for one of the heating bands:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/tazza_/Casting%20machine%20and%20sizer/20160323_152655.jpg

Cylinders, a few valves (need more but i have time till they are needed) and air regulators:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/tazza_/Casting%20machine%20and%20sizer/20160323_152234.jpg

[bangerjim]

You sure got more time on your hands than I do!

Good luck. Let us know of your success.

banger

[Walter Laich]

good luck and remember pictures or it didn't happen

[Tazza]

I'll be sure to post progress when it happens :)

[Tazza]

hehe, that is the first rule of the internet :)

[Tazza]

Making slow progress, life keeps getting in the way.

I have a friend that when he sizes, he has to size base first as he uses flat base bullet molds, if not, he gets whiskers of lead on the base. This has be wondering if i can size the same way if i make the punch match the profile of the nose of the projectile? Without having more support on the nose, it would deform it when sizing base first.

The only reason i am considering this is so i don't need to flip the projectiles from the bullet collator.

Thoughts on if it's worth while going to the trouble of making different punches for different projectile profiles? or just suck it up and make a flipper?

[jmorris]

You are already starting off ahead of me. Better components and a machine on hand to copy. Looking forward to the build photos.

[AbluquerqueBullet,LLC]

I came across a homemade one on youtube. wounder if its a member? it used a pre-melt pot pretty cool. sometimes i wish i didn't have the big machines so i could build more stuff!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1IJ7G0U3yY

What is the sizer going to be like? I would make the bullet feed bar like the lubemasters and not like the stars. the way north valley updated the mark 6 hand sizer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYT5w0sONMo

[Tazza]

I think i have seen that casting machine on youtube before, but not the sizer.

The sizer i'm working on is going to be close to the star style, ram goes up and down then there is a slider that will move projectiles from a tube to under the ram. Gremlin on here built one the same way, but used a lee reloading press. Because i'm cheap , i'm trying to make it all from scratch :)

Today, i mounted the bushing for the ram rod to some C section steel, i welded the base to it with a hole for the sizing die to poke through. I machined a thread into a lump of square steel for the sizing die to screw into. My idea of how i was going to mount this threaded piece won't work how i wanted it to, so i'll have to re-think it. I had plans of mounting it with screws so i could adjust it to get it spot on, As whenever you weld something, it moves, even if it's only slight. With bolting it in place, i can adjust for any warping from the welding. I may bolt it in place and weld around it, the bolts may hold it well enough for it to not move.

I need to get a few pictures, i didn't get as much done today as i wanted. I keep getting side tracked with other projects, that and i keep second guessing myself with how i'm going about it. I hope to get it right, or close to right the first time around :)

[jmorris]

On my first homemade auto sizer I made everything including the dies. Instead of making everything threaded I just had the dies slip fit the base and used a set collar to hold them in place.

This is what it looks like from the bottom.
http://s121.photobucket.com/user/jmorrismetal/media/die.jpg.html?sort=6&o=20

The key to having perfect welded parts is to machine them after welding but you can get very close even welding after, if you have good fixtures.

[1989toddm]

I love seeing these home builds for loading, casting, sizing machines. As I was watching the YouTube link above, it hit me, how does it fill both cavities? It looked like a single stream and I couldn't tell that the mold moved at all when filling.

I can see it working fine if the sprue plate had all cavities connected, like some of the old gang molds have.

[AbluquerqueBullet,LLC]

it has 2 steams of lead the melting pot has a slit on the bottom going front to back then there is a orifice plate with 2 holes that bolts over the slit the lead can only flow from the holes in the plate . they make a plate with a center hold for single cavity molds.

The poster of the youtube video has more videos of it the one called 135 is a very detailed slower vid.

[AbluquerqueBullet,LLC]

Doh non-lubing sizers? how can post a video for me of mine? over 5100 per hour i think it runs at. i am not the most computerable.

[nh7792]

If your looking for a casting machine, I have a Mark-X machine with base and all upgrades, plus 4- .452-225-RN molds included for $2600 + shipping.
166861

[1989toddm]

it has 2 steams of lead the melting pot has a slit on the bottom going front to back then there is a orifice plate with 2 holes that bolts over the slit the lead can only flow from the holes in the plate . they make a plate with a center hold for single cavity molds.

The poster of the youtube video has more videos of it the one called 135 is a very detailed slower vid.

Got it. Great concept!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AbluquerqueBullet,LLC]

If your looking for a casting machine, I have a Mark-X machine with base and all upgrades, plus 4- .452-225-RN molds included for $2600 + shipping.
166861


Wounder how much shipping would be all the way to the AU.

[Tazza]

Jmorris - That was the ideal way of doing it, but i couldn't work out how to machine it after welding..... That idea did roll around in my head :) Hopefully this say will work too, i just need to work out if my idea of mounting with bolts will handle the forces of sizing, which i believe it will. When i hand size, it doesn't take a whole lot of force to push them through. I'll try and get some pictures so you can see what i'm doing, you or others may have ideas of what i should do.

abuquerqueBullet - If you can upload it to a site like photobucket, you can paste a link of it running that way, that sure sounds like a fancy machine running that fast

[Tazza]

Shipping to .au wouldn't be nice, the MC i got a good 10 years ago cost me $200 USD for surface post.

[AbluquerqueBullet,LLC]

The punch is not in the machine in the video i don't remember where i put it i don't use this machine.

http://s1262.photobucket.com/user/ABQBULLET/media/MOV03426_zpsfgctza3w.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0

video form the seller i got it from
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj9D7qluqqY

[AbluquerqueBullet,LLC]

abuquerqueBullet - If you can upload it to a site like photobucket, you can paste a link of it running that way, that sure sounds like a fancy machine running that fast[/QUOTE]

It is actually very basic.

[Tazza]

I like it, yet another way that they used to get the slider to move the projectiles into position. My idea was a linkage like Jmorris and Gremlin used, not sure if it is any easier than this setup or not. I just want something reliable and won't fail with whatever speed it ends up needing to move at to not get pinched. Time will tell i guess.

The motor and gear box i have will do around 3,000 per hour, not super fast, but hey, it saves me doing it all by hand! IF it all functions as i hope, i can always use a faster motor, but this all hinges on reliability. I know there will be a point that you simply can't go faster for reliable operation, something will snag and break

[jmorris]

3000/hr is actually pretty fast, I would be impressed by any machine that could cast at that rate with a single double cavity mold for that length of time. My first sizer was much slower but as long as I didn't have to do anything, I was happy, kind of a "set it and forget it" device.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eANEMBS_V_0

If your casting machine will do 3000/hr that is a different story but I try and do all of the operations at the same time vs making each step a little faster. At that point the slowest process is the one that sets your speed.

You could completely eliminate any welding as long as you machined the die with a shoulder and something as simple as a snap ring. Your main plate would be flat, your shoulder machined square, ram comes down and shoves a bullet through and your done. Everything square and the snap ring just keeps the die in place but your machine work keeps it in posistion.

[Tazza]

Interesting, I see that as a good idea. Sort of self aligning. As long as things are machined square it won't bind.

How did you make your sizing dies? I have adjustable reamers but getting the taper in seems to be harder than it should be. I had an old tap that I ground to cut a taper but didn't work just right ):

I'd buy lee ones but there seems to be no local stock of .356 and .357 I can then use 4140 steel and harden it so it will never wear out.

[jmorris]

I picked up a tapered reamer from a local surplus store. If you pick the right one, a single reamer will cover every size bullet you will ever have.

I use some stainless steel barstock I had handy when I made my dies. I have always sized lubed or coated bullets but my oldest one still spits them out .4515" after more than a decade of use, so I likely wouldn't bother heat treating one.

[Tazza]

Mine have always been lubed or other wise coated. I used lees liquid alox at the start, but far too messy for me, then i got into polymer coating, which i have used ever since, so everything through my die has been coated in one way or another. It has sized about 80,000 or so.

I get your point on hardening, it will take a long time to wear out, but some of my fellow shooters are a bit picky when it comes to size. Even though the information i have read said that in a 9mm, .355 all the way to .358 are still fine as the hardness of the lead is much softer than copper on jacketed projectiles so it forms its self to an extent. With that said, i spoke to my mad mate about a batch that i had cast that i wasn't super happy with as there was lead behind the sprue plate, he said just coat them and i'll shoot em.

I'll try and get some pictures up soon of my sizer progress, i'm still considering your idea of making it so the die has a little room to move to allow for any slight mis-alignment. It just means i need to drill the hole i have in it now a bit bigger then machine a new collar to hold the the sizing die. Hopefully i will still have enough clearance between the bottom of the boss that the ram rod goes through and the base that the die will screw into. I was working on 3" of ram travel to help slow down the feeding slider some, the shorter the stroke the faster the slider will need to move to get the projectile into place.

Now, to take some pictures!

[Tazza]

The main part of the frame with the main bushing/guide. The pin is screwed into the ram rod.
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/tazza_/Casting%20machine%20and%20sizer/20160425_175305.jpg

Close up of pin and where the sizing die pokes through the base, this hole may need to be enlarged to hold the die differently yet.
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/tazza_/Casting%20machine%20and%20sizer/20160425_175318.jpg

Sizing die and the housing it was to screw into, still tossing up if I'll bolt this to the under side of where the sizing pin goes through yet. I'd like to think 4 bolts holding this plate in place would be more than strong enough, yet allowing the die to float a little is appealing as the sizing pin is locked in place, unlike how this pin is supposed to be mounted in a hand press, allowing a little movement.
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/tazza_/Casting%20machine%20and%20sizer/20160425_175359.jpg

Last one showing how the die mount is supposed to fit and to dies i tried to make but stuffed up the internals of:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/tazza_/Casting%20machine%20and%20sizer/20160425_175536.jpg

The boss that the rod runs through has two bronze bushings and two grooves cut, one top one bottom to hold oil seals to hold grease or oil to lubricate the rod. Hopefully meaning I'll never have to replace the bushings.

[jmorris]

I see what your doing there clearly now. That would be a little more difficult to ensure everything stays lined up.

Go back and look at the photo I linked to in #10. I just machined 4 stand offs that used the cylinders factory mounts, all to the same length. Threaded into the cylinder and a 3/8" think steel plate with 5 holes in it is bolted to them. No weld, no warp and everything is square.

You might notice that the "slider" isn't welded to anything either it stays in place due to the split set collar on the stand off.

[Tazza]

I didn't notice that there was a cylinder under there. I thought it was all a cylinder I was so confused, but now it see what you did and how it goes together. I see the collar there too.

As you used bolts, im wondering if I can do the same and either make shoulder bolts or spacers to allow a little movement of the die. If I make the bolt holes a little larger this will allow a little side to side movement.

[jmorris]

If you are using a mill with a DRO, and counter sink bolts you will be perfect the first time.

[Tazza]

Sadly no, just plain 'ol mill :(

As i drilled the base to accept the nose of a die, my plan was to use this to align the die and clamp it in place and drill the required holes. Then open the ones up on the die mount block to allow for a little play.

[jmorris]

You could do that. If you make the arbor so it can be swapped out for different calibers you could also machine one that is tight in one of your size dies and use it as an "alignment tool".

[Tazza]

Anything over 9mm here is too much effort to own, so i should be able to get away with just one pin, but i like the idea of the alignment tool.

[Tazza]

Ok, so not many updates so far, but progress has been made.

The frame is together, motor mounted, ram mostly machined, con rod machined and installed.

I'll take a few pictures tomorrow and maybe a video. The motor has more than enough power to size the 139rn i threw at it, i wasn't sure how much power it would need, but i see no issues. I need to adjust the cam to get the alignment spot on to take any possible side load out of the bearings on the pivot points (the upcoming pictures will show what i mean)

I spent yesterday afternoon turning a bigger piece of aluminium into a smaller piece for the guide to push the projectiles into the sizing die. I need to cut some nylon sheet to fit the slot i cut in the aluminium.

The next fun part will be the linkages between the ram and the slider. I looked at ball joints to use as a linkage, but the ones i found say not for high repetition as they are not hardened, at $20 each i'd like for them to last and not fall apart on me possibly causing a few issues. I'm thinking of a linkage like the lee 1000 presses use to slide cases into the shell holder. I have some brass welding rods that i can bend and put clips on to hold them in place. It will make fine adjustments an issue, but i think i can work with it.

[Tazza]

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/tazza_/Casting%20machine%20and%20sizer/20160513_152226.jpg

Yes, that is a drill bit as a pivot pin, it's all i had on hand as a test.

Video:
http://vid903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/tazza_/Casting%20machine%20and%20sizer/20160513_152247.mp4

I want to run it clockwise, so i need to swap the legs the capacitor is hooked up to. At least it runs and has the power to size the projectiles i threw at it.

Hopefully tomorrow will involve the slider, the issue i see is the nylon sheet i'm going to use isn't quite thick enough, i plan i cutting a slot into the aluminium guide to make the projectiles sit a little lower, there is plenty of material for me to use to do this.