Working up new loads would like advice on proper procedure

[Strtspdlx]

I do have load data at home and I've only ever reloaded Fmj 223. Now I'm starting to reload for 45 acp and 40 s&w. The 45 is using cast 230 tc Lee mold and the 40 is also a Lee but 175gr swc. I bought cci primers for there respective cartridge and accurate #7 powder for both. I have all cases deprived and sized. I belled 20 45 cases for the lead. I should have my powder today. Starting load is 9.9gr and Max is something like 11-11.5 but I will verify that today. I'm not overly concerned with 40 right now because that's for my wife and is still like to get a barrel before I shoot lead through her glock 22. The 45 is an m&p 4.5" barrel
Questions-
1. Is it necessary to clean primer pockets?
2. I figured I'd start for 45 at 10gr then 10.5,11,11.5 or should I not worry about getting too worked up about it?
3. I'm very new to reloading 6-8 months into it. I know about the measurements outlined in load data and I've already made sure the cash boolit fits my barrel. Is there anything else I should be checking or double checking? Also if there's anything you'd like to ad please do. The more I learn the better I'll be.

[wl620]

I have shot quite a bit of 7 in a 45 acp with good results overall but mosly with 200 gr. boolits and hornady xtp in my 1911's it seems the book load of 11.5 max is a little hot in my guns even with 200 gr. boolits or jacketed. I personally dont feel its necessary to clean primer pockets with plinking ammo but i normally clean my acp brass in between firings reason no.1 being they are usually dirty number 2 being i like to keep them shiny so i can find them.
If you do not have a taper crimp die get one and taper crimp as a last step set your crimp die where the case mouth measures .470 with boolit in place, and pay close attention to seating depth if seated too deep pressures will rise more than you want especially with a powder like you have chosen that is considered slower burrning for 45 acp.
Also I have never owned an m&p so i dont know what # recoil spring they have but to get good results with this powder and lower extreme spreads you will probably be close to mid to top end loads resulting in more pressure witch will eventually beat your gun up if it doesnt have a heavy enough spring in it. That being said i know nothing of m&p's all of my expierence has been with 1911's or ruger convertible's in 45
Sorry i cant help with you 40. Good luck

[454PB]

Since you're a newbie, start with the recommended starting load. I seldom clean primer pockets.

[Scharfschuetze]

Yes, start with the starting load in your manual and then test it for not only accuracy, but for function in your pistol. Keep good records as you progress up the scale. At some point, you'll find the best load for both function and accuracy.

I don't notice much difference in loading handgun cases with cleaned primer pockets or uncleaned pockets. I do clean 'em now and then as the residue does build up over time. That said, I do clean 'em every time for long range loads in handguns for 50 yards and further and for my long range rifle loads for 500 yards and further shooting. Plinking loads probably don't need the extra effort unless you are having trouble seating your primers or if they are protruding at all from the base of the case.

Accuracy is the sum of a lot of parts in your hand loaded ammo. Your end goal (plinking-testing-competition-etc.) will determine how much attention to detail that you need to pay attention to.

[CraigOK]

I uniform primer pockets on precision and hunting brass for my rifles but dont normally mess with plinking ammo ones.

[Strtspdlx]

I should've mentioned most of these loads will be r&ad for my guns and possibly some idpa competitions if I can ever get to an event. Aside from that mostly plinking. I'll have to find out what weight spring is in my gun as I honestly have not the first clue. I believe Lee does come with a taper crimp die in their 4 die set which is what I purchased but I'll double check to be certain.

[Scharfschuetze]

I believe Lee does come with a taper crimp die in their 4 die set which is what I purchased but I'll double check to be certain.

A taper crimp is the way to go when loading for semi-autos.

[Animal]

I clean primer pockets every time (except with virgin brass). It probably doesn't do a whole lot for accuracy in my handguns. I have had 1 fail to fire because all the gunk that built up in the pocket seemed to act like a shock absorbed and did not allow for a crisp strike on the primer. At least I think that is why the primer did not ignite. So to be safe, I've cleaned every primer pocket since. I have not had one fail to ignite since then. I have since incorporated this into my practice.

[Four-Sixty]

I clean my primer pockets largely to minimize ash build up, and prevent a failure to ignite. I too have seen the build up cushion a primer enough to prevent ignition.

[Leadmelter]

I use a Universal deprimer and put in the hopper of 90 minutes. Works for me.
On virgin brass, I use a Lyman tool to fix the flash holes.
Leadmelter
MI

[Strtspdlx]

Well I got home all excited to reload some rounds. Went to the range to shoot some Fmj with the trigger reworked in my m&p, gun performs flawlessly now (it did before to I was just muscling the trigger because of the heavy pull). Came back home started prepping everything, and that's when I hit me. I forgot to lube the bullets. Got out my Chinese food plastic container. Tumble lubed 20 boolits in 45 and 40. I hope I can get to these tomorrow. I'm really anxious to shoot some of my own boolits.

[Scharfschuetze]

Give 'em 'ell Strtspdlx. I hope that they shoot well. Let us know next time you post.

[44man]

I am not sure working loads will change much in those small cases with the powders needed. Pressures and recoil of course but it appears my friends spend more time finding a boolit that shoots better and since I have neither of those guns, I can't say for sure.
In my larger guns I never seen much improvement in accuracy having to work in tenths of a gr.
I would be curious what you find as you change loads since I have wanted a 1911 forever, just never had enough money.

[Strtspdlx]

I am not sure working loads will change much in those small cases with the powders needed. Pressures and recoil of course but it appears my friends spend more time finding a boolit that shoots better and since I have neither of those guns, I can't say for sure.
In my larger guns I never seen much improvement in accuracy having to work in tenths of a gr.
I would be curious what you find as you change loads since I have wanted a 1911 forever, just never had enough money.

I started loading 223 and I'd work up loads this way. I've never done pistol calipers before though. I'd rather work up a few loads then see what I can use. And what takes the least amount of powder to get what I want. I'm stingy like that. Every penny I save can be used for reloading somewhere else. I really need to invest in a chronograph. I want to shoot competition in the near future so I need to work up some loads that make power factor. This is becoming an expensive hobby. Fun as....well you know. So I'm going to keep on going. If anyone's waiting for my first loads to be posted I'd expect to shoot them either Saturday or Sunday. So stay tuned this oughta be interesting.

[C.F.Plinker]

I'm another person who does not clean the primer pockets. I've got brass that has been reloaded over 20 times and have never had a round that failed to fire. All of my shooting is for bullseye competition. Therefore the criteria is for the best group. I start at the low end and shoot 5 shot groups working up in 0.1grain increments looking for the best grouping. At this point I'm not worried about function just group size. If the load for the most accurate group doesn't function then I look at using different recoil springs. You can get "calibration packs" which have different spring weights from Wolff. The other alternative is to cut your spring down a turn at a time. I did this early on and found out that my 1911 didn't function even when the spring was just barely sticking out of the slide before installing the plug. It finally dawned on me that the gun was trying to tell me that it didn't like Bullseye. Going to a slower powder (230--yes, it was that long ago) solved the problem. Accurate No.7 is much slower so you shouldn't run into what I did. That is a long way of saying that not functioning is not your primary concern because there are things you can do to fix it. Getting the accuracy you want at the power level you need is more important. Then take care of function. Work your loads up in 0.1 grain increments because you will see them open and close up with changes that small. A 0.3 or 0.4 grain change may ride right over a better group that is between those loads.

You say that you are stingy. The Lyman No. 4 Cast Bullet Handbook shows a range of 5.0 to 5.5 grains for the Lee 230 grain truncated cone bullet. Using a powder that is faster than the Accurate No. 7 could save up to 1/3 on your powder cost. Now 5 grains isn't much when you put it in a 45ACP case. Make double sure that you eyeball every case to insure that there are no double charges because 10 grains will go KABOOM every time. And you don't want that.

[Strtspdlx]

I posted a reply to find it didn't show. Hopefully I didn't put it in the wrong place. Anywho
started loading. Ran into a problem with the plunk test. Rotates fine but it isn't headspacing off the case. Instead it's using the beginning of the drive band in the front. Data says 1.230 and with oal at that it won't go into battery. Even at 1.205 it won't if I'm gentle. If I lock the slide back and hit the release it will go into battery. I know to correct this I need a new mold. These are unsized and they're dropping at .452 and my sizer is a .452 sizer. I could buy the .451 sizer? Or can I maybe get away with it as-is. Max load is 11gr. Say I start at 10gr and try 10.5 and look for any pressure signs? I'm afraid to seat any deeper then 1.200 and even then I don't think itll sit flush with the lugs on the barrel? Does anyone have any insight???

[Strtspdlx]

I'm another person who does not clean the primer pockets. I've got brass that has been reloaded over 20 times and have never had a round that failed to fire. All of my shooting is for bullseye competition. Therefore the criteria is for the best group. I start at the low end and shoot 5 shot groups working up in 0.1grain increments looking for the best grouping. At this point I'm not worried about function just group size. If the load for the most accurate group doesn't function then I look at using different recoil springs. You can get "calibration packs" which have different spring weights from Wolff. The other alternative is to cut your spring down a turn at a time. I did this early on and found out that my 1911 didn't function even when the spring was just barely sticking out of the slide before installing the plug. It finally dawned on me that the gun was trying to tell me that it didn't like Bullseye. Going to a slower powder (230--yes, it was that long ago) solved the problem. Accurate No.7 is much slower so you shouldn't run into what I did. That is a long way of saying that not functioning is not your primary concern because there are things you can do to fix it. Getting the accuracy you want at the power level you need is more important. Then take care of function. Work your loads up in 0.1 grain increments because you will see them open and close up with changes that small. A 0.3 or 0.4 grain change may ride right over a better group that is between those loads.

You say that you are stingy. The Lyman No. 4 Cast Bullet Handbook shows a range of 5.0 to 5.5 grains for the Lee 230 grain truncated cone bullet. Using a powder that is faster than the Accurate No. 7 could save up to 1/3 on your powder cost. Now 5 grains isn't much when you put it in a 45ACP case. Make double sure that you eyeball every case to insure that there are no double charges because 10 grains will go KABOOM every time. And you don't want that.

i wanted any other powder but this one honestly. Everywhere was sold out of everything I wanted and I panicked and bought this. I have 8lbs now so I'll run through that and if what I want comes up on sale I'll be buying it. I really wanted cfe pistol or titegroup but I couldn't find it when I ordered this stuff.

[wv109323]

You don't need to clean primer pockets. The way a primer works is that the legs of the anvil need to be seated against the bottom of the primer pocket. Thus when the firing pin strikes the outside of the primer, the primer compound between the anvil and the firing pin strike will ignite. If the anvil legs( think whole primer) is not fully seated then there can be no crushing effect of the primer compound.
As far as seating depth, seat the bullet til the mouth of the case is at the top lube groove of the 230 TC bullet. I don't know what the OAL will be but that is where the round will feed the best. Taper crimp to .469-.470". Start with minimal charge listed. Load only a handful and fire looking for pressure signs and whether the pistol functions properly. Load one round in a magazine and fire it. If the slide locks back then that load should operate the pistol satisfactory.
Work up to a load that makes your power factor with a chronograph.

[wv109323]

Let me add: There can be very little you can do about accuracy. You have one bullet,one powder and a velocity that makes power factor. There is not a lot of variables except loading hotter than PF if pressure and leading allows.

[C.F.Plinker]

Take a fired case and size it. Use that for a plunk test. You are now headspacing on the case mouth. Most of the time you will find that the case head is below the end of the barrel hood. Now just barely flare the case and put a boolit in so that the top lube groove is just covered as wv109323 suggested. Do the plunk test again. If the case head is above the barrel hood seat the boolit a little deeper and re-plunk it. Keep doing this until the case head is even with the end of the barrel hood. This is what the seating depth should be. If your brass is short or the barrel has a deeper that usual chamber the case head will be below the barrel hood on the first plunk test with a boolit. In that case I just seat the boolit so there is about 1/32 inch of the front driving band sticking out of the case. This gives the crimp some lead to bite into when you do the crimping.

[KYCaster]

I should've mentioned most of these loads will be r&ad for my guns and possibly some idpa competitions if I can ever get to an event. Aside from that mostly plinking. I'll have to find out what weight spring is in my gun as I honestly have not the first clue. I believe Lee does come with a taper crimp die in their 4 die set which is what I purchased but I'll double check to be certain.

The Lee 4 die set comes with their "Factory Crimp Die", not a taper crimp die. Opt for the 3 die set and get the taper crimp die separately. I think you'll be happier with the results.

Jerry

[Strtspdlx]

Take a fired case and size it. Use that for a plunk test. You are now headspacing on the case mouth. Most of the time you will find that the case head is below the end of the barrel hood. Now just barely flare the case and put a boolit in so that the top lube groove is just covered as wv109323 suggested. Do the plunk test again. If the case head is above the barrel hood seat the boolit a little deeper and re-plunk it. Keep doing this until the case head is even with the end of the barrel hood. This is what the seating depth should be. If your brass is short or the barrel has a deeper that usual chamber the case head will be below the barrel hood on the first plunk test with a boolit. In that case I just seat the boolit so there is about 1/32 inch of the front driving band sticking out of the case. This gives the crimp some lead to bite into when you do the crimping.
did that. Bullet has to be seated it 1.176 for everything to work. I seated 20 of them. 10 at 10gr and 10 at 10.5gr. If that goes well I'll move it up. I really need to invest in a bullet puller

[Strtspdlx]

The Lee 4 die set comes with their "Factory Crimp Die", not a taper crimp die. Opt for the 3 die set and get the taper crimp die separately. I think you'll be happier with the results.

Jerry
now that you mention that my bullet seating die is taking the flare off when I seat the bullet and sizing it perfectly. I need a bullet puller because I believe it's swaying the bullet. But until I pull one I can't tell. There's a lot of other issues I see now but I need to type it all on a computer.

[Bonz]

COL (case overall length) is absolutely critical on the .40 cal !

[Strtspdlx]

COL (case overall length) is absolutely critical on the .40 cal !
i haven't done anything with the 40 yet. I got stuck on the 45 with issues. I'm going to try to load some dummies tonight in 40 to plunk test and if that goes well I'll load some up.

[Strtspdlx]

Well I shot them. The 10gr load shoot low. Feels odd but im
unsure if it's low power or hi power. It has less muzzle flip but pushes back harder then factory. After 10 shots it leaded the last inch an a half of the barrel enough to see a good coating. I shot the 10.5gr load and it kept locking the slide back with a round still in the magazine. So I think I'm a little hot right now. No pressure signs though. I need to fix the seating issue as I think it's swaging the lead down. I may start water dropping these boolits as they've say for atleast a week an a half before loaded. Some are almost 6 weeks old now. And they're straight coww with maybe 1% tin. Bore slugged at .4521 bullets are usually 4526-4529

[Strtspdlx]

Load for a 250gn jhp seated to 1.200 is max load 8.4 gn of accurate #7 so I'm going to start working my loads down and see if I can't sort out the leading by slowing it down. I really wish I had a chronograph so I atleast knew how fast the darn thing was going. That would help a lot right now.

[44man]

The only leading I ever got was from mule snot TL. Alox is the worst stinking thing ever used for a boolit lube. The guy that started it should be buried in a vat of the junk.

[Strtspdlx]

The only leading I ever got was from mule snot TL. Alox is the worst stinking thing ever used for a boolit lube. The guy that started it should be buried in a vat of the junk.
i will agree to some extent. It definetely doesn't cover at all. Some of the boolits I've relubed. I'm thinking about pc'ing the boolits but cash is tight right now and im
anxious to load something that works so I can shoot. Are there other alternatives I can try?

[Strtspdlx]

alright readers, I think I got it figured out, I relubed my bullets so I have two coats of lla on them, I charged the cases to 8gn and luckily after 15 shots I still have no leading, I loaded up 75 and I'm hopefully going to be able to shoot them next weekend, I did have one failure to feed on the last bullet in the magazine but I'm hoping I can blame that on the magazine, in all honesty I may either trade this pistol for a M&P in 40 S&W or I need to get more molds, but id like to condense everything and only load for one rifle round and one pistol round, I loaded for my wifes glock22 gen 4 and after 100 rounds I have zero signs of leading, hers went by the load data without any issues at all from shot one it was pretty good, I lowered the charge .4gn and I think its as good as its getting now. thanks for the help everyone just figured id share the info.