Colt Bisley - Suggestions needed please

[Dutchninja]

I have a Colt bisley 45 colt, that has sat at my fathers for years. I actually forgot about having it until the other day when I was looking for my Smith model 28. It's been in our family as one of my relatives used it as his police gun in Detroit back in the 20's. I can also tell it's been in the family because someone tried taking a pair of pliers to the cylinder rod and messed it up. Mechanically everything looks good, but i'm not sure about the timing of the cylinder. This gun will never be sold and will be kept in the family.


1 - Do I keep it as it is in it's current condition and just enjoy it?

2 - Do I get it factory refinished (i.e. turnbull) and working?

3 - leave in current condition, but have it repaired to fire able condition?

4 - Do they make replacement cylinders to handling smokeless powder? I would rather not have to load BP ammo.

would appreciate any suggestions.

164075

164076

[Ithaca Gunner]

3 - leave in current condition, but have it repaired to fire able condition? I would do this one. I have a Colt New Service .45 Colt made in 1904 and shoot light smokeless loads in with cast 200gr. swc ammo no problem. Your Bisley is probably about the same era.

[9.3X62AL]

A shame about that "Bubba'ed" cylinder pin, but aesthetic challenges are survivable and seldom compromise serviceability in and of themselves. More of an irritation than anything else.

Have a competent armorer or gunsmith check the timing and chamber ranging, and if in good order I see no reason that current SAAMI-spec factory loads or their reloaded equivalent should not be fired in this example. Given its age, I would wager that your throats are at least .454" and grooves will likely be in the .454" ballpark as well. It was not until after WWII that Colt began making the 45 Colt barrels to the 45 ACP specs of .451" groove diameter. SIZE MATTERS.

[Mk42gunner]

Check your serial number for the date of manufacture, it may already be safe for smokeless powder. Your gun has the transverse cylinder pin retainer so it has to be close.

I am no authority on Colt single actions, but IIRC they changed from the cylinder pin retaining screw to the spring loaded plunger a few years before they gave the okay for smokeless.

Not a gun to hotrod, but a factory level .45 Colt isn't a wimpy load either.

Robert

[Nueces]

The left side of the barrel is marked "Colt Frontier Six Shooter", not Bisley 45 Colt. That CFSS marking is a 44-40 marking. So, take a close look and try a 45 Colt round, or empty case, in a chamber. You might have an old conversion and it may no longer be a 45 Colt.

[DougGuy]

It's a push pin frame that generally means smokeless powder, some of the 1899 guns had steel frames for smokeless so there were a few made prior to 1902 that are good with smokeless but as a rule if it is post 1902 and push pin frame, it's smokeless powder frame.

Frontier Six Shooter is definitely 44-40 so I would check this very carefully and make sure of which caliber it is.

I think the boogered pin is not a big deal if the gun is mechanically safe.

Were it me, I think I would have it checked for one, and then if needed restored to fireable condition and probably enjoy shooting it a box or two of ammo and then put it in the safe, shoot it sparingly..

[9.3X62AL]

Didn't look at the pics very closely. CFSS = 44/40, so while having the revolver checked over I would have the internal dimensions of barrel--throats--and chambers confirmed. Lots can happen over the passage of a century's time. The 44/40 is a fun caliber to load and fire, too--I have a carbine and revolver so chambered.

[Dutchninja]

It does say frontier six shooter on top. Close up of the pin below. Checked the cylinder gap with some feeler gauges. a .005 will slide through, a .006 will not. I did check the cylinder alignment, when the pistol is cocked all the way back,it is slightly out of alignment. Not a lot but definitely noticeable / unsafe. I did not slug the barrel, but the dial caliper was showing .420-.425 at the muzzle so 44-40 ballpark. Serial number is 187000 ballpark so 1899 from what coltauto's webpage is telling me.

Who is a good gunsmith for a pistol like this / specialize in these? I would prefer not to take it to just any smith to get it back in fire able condition.

164100

Thank you to everyone who has replied. It is greatly appreciated!

[DougGuy]

A .45 of that age would have a .454" groove diameter in the bore so your .420" is enough to confirm it is definitely NOT .45 Colt caliber.

Is the cylinder numbered to the frame? Look close and see if you can find the last 4 digits on the back of the cylinder, or AT LEAST the last two.

[9.3X62AL]

Once you have the cylinder in hand checking for S/N match-up per Doug's instructions, look down the chambers and see how many "steps' are seen within it. A 45 Colt chamber should have only one step--where the case mouth cut ends and the throat begins. A 44/40 chamber will show 2 such "steps"--1 just like that found in the 45 Colt (and most other cartridge revolvers), and a second more subtle step corresponding to the vestigial shoulder present on 44/40 WCF cartridges, roughly at the chamber's mid-point.

[Dutchninja]

There a two burn marks, much like in a 38 / 357 in each cylinder. No noticeable step with a dental pick but it appeared to taper towards the end a bit?

also no number on the cylinder anywhere, not even a two digit like on the smaller parts. I cannot get the cylinder retain pin out, I'm not going to try hence the previous plyer marks from I think my grandfather.

Gunsmith suggestions?

[DougGuy]

Alan Harton if you can get him to accept work. John Gallagher would be another one.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I am confused. Why did you think it was a 45 Colt in the first place? My brother has a Colt that is also marked Frontier Six Shooter and if memory serves it is also stamped 44WCF. I read many years ago that Colt said in ads that with the introduction of the spring loaded cylinder pin release in 1892 that the frame was now made of forged steel and was safe with smokeless powder. The earlier frames were made of iron. I think your pistol is just as it left the Colt factory.

[doc1876]

Eddy Janis is exceptional on Colts.....not cheap, though.

[birch]

If it is safe---shoot it!!!! There is no other firearm that sounds and feels like a Single Action Army.

[Frank46]

I'd fix it and get it into safe and fire able condition. The old girl is worth some good money and is worth it. Frank

[35 Whelen]

My elderly uncle sent me his 1901 Bisley to "fix" and it was pretty much the same as yours. So, get a brass punch and drive the base pin out from the rear. Disassemble the revolver and clean it. Go over the base pin and cylinder bushing with WD-40 and 0000 steel wool. Reassemble and shoot!
I'd check real close about the cylinder alignment. The bolt is what dictates where the cylinder stops its rotation, so as long as the bolt is operating as/when it should, everything should be OK.
FWIW, I have two Bisley's in one in 41 Colt and one in 38-40 (1903 and 1906 productions) and a Single Action in 38-40 (1902 production), and I shoot them frequently and unhesitantly with smokeless and BP.

35W