Full Wadcutter 357 Magnum Loads

[Char-Gar]

For the past year or so, I have been shooting some cast solid base wadcutters in 357 Magnum brass out of several 357 Magnum revolvers. I got started when Ed Harris mentioned 10/2400 as a good load of such a type. I gave it a try and it performs very well. Having quite a bit of the original Israeli made AA5, I tried 7.4 grains (Little Dandy rotor 8) and it shot equal as well, and the point of impact and recoil seems the same as the 10/2400 load.

I keep a good Smith and Wesson 19 loaded with these things. They have always worked very well in my 1972 OM Ruger Blackhawk. I modified an RCBS expander to give me deeper expansion with these bullets which seat deeper in the case. It is 3rd. from the left or 2nd. from the right in the pic. I have used several home cast and purchased solid base wadcutters and they all do about the same.

The accuracy of these loads hold up well beyond 50 yards and while well beyond the pressure and velocity of 38 Specials are quite mild for the 357 Magnum. I am guessing somewhere around 1,000 to 1,100 fps. They should make a very good house defense load and field load for small critters up to about 50 pounds or so.

I have not read much of anything about these kinds of loads, so I pass this along to anybody that might find it interesting.

FYI...The expanders pictured are all RCBS. No. 1 and No. 3 (modified) are the older ones that measure .357. No. 2 is the current style that measures .356. No. 5 is the special order (no longer available) long .3585 for HBWCs in 38 Special Wadcutter brass. It cannot be used in regular brass for it will bulge the bottom of the case. I modified No. 3 in my lathe for wadcutter use in regular 38 and 357 Magnum brass.

[Walkingwolf]

I am running 138gn Bayou Bullet wadcutter 38 spl+P out of a GP100. I have one of the 38 spl GP's. My load is using long shot though with very good performance. Six grains of Longshot gives me 1200fps out of a four inch barrel.

[MT Gianni]

I assume everyone understands these are cast wadcutters not the commercially purchased target ones. Is there much difference n impact at 50 yards versus a similar SWC?

[Thumbcocker]

I shot many many 358495's over 4.9 of 231 in my M 27. About 1000 fps and quite accurate.

[Char-Gar]

I assume everyone understands these are cast wadcutters not the commercially purchased target ones. Is there much difference n impact at 50 yards versus a similar SWC?

I was careful in my OP to say cast solid base wadcutters. If some idiot wants to shoot the soft swaged ones, all he will get is lousy accuracy and a lead plated barrel. If some other idiot wants to shoot hollow based wadcutters, he may well get a blown up gun when the bullet skirts are blown off and left in the barrel.

Again, I try and be very precise with these kinds of things, but if folks are so stupid as to not be able to read a thread, they should not be allowed around a loading press. However it is always good to try and idiot proof a thread and I thank you for your effort to that end.

I have not shot WCs and SWCs. side by side with the same load to see if there is any significant different in POI. That said, I doubt if there will be enough to warrant a sight correction. Both loads above, with several different solid base cast wadcutters all shoot to the same sights setting. They all go into the same group, assuming similar bullet weights of course.

[shoot-n-lead]

I shoot wadcutters in my .357's...but they are the Lyman 75gr...they are a blast from the .357 LCR.

[jmort]

I have been using Mihec 170 solid wadcutter in .357 mag. Around 1,000 fps. A problem solver to be sure.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Yes indeed I love full throttle full wadcutters. I find pushing them to 1400 fps and above I can't tell any difference between them and cast hollow points in the way they shread water jugs. I do have a little more faith in the wadcutters to penetrate hoof or paw driven critters, but have no doubt they would work well as felon repellant (love that term, I got it from one of the more eloquent members on this board, 9.3x62AL)

[Ed_Shot]

I shot many many 358495's over 4.9 of 231 in my M 27. About 1000 fps and quite accurate.

358495 over Red Dot/Promo 5.0 gr also very accurate. Also @ 1000 fps.

[tazman]

I expect it is the velocity rather than the particular powder that is providing the accuracy. Many loads in 357 seem to work very well in the 1000-1200 fps window regardless of the gun.

[9.3X62AL]

I expect it is the velocity rather than the particular powder that is providing the accuracy. Many loads in 357 seem to work very well in the 1000-1200 fps window regardless of the gun.

Yessir--and not just the 357 Magnum shows this trait. It carries through in all of the straightwall Magnum calibers for me, to include the Ruger-level 45 Colt loadings. Very useful and tractable ballistics. Herco is your friend in this ZIP Code.

[tazman]

Yessir--and not just the 357 Magnum shows this trait. It carries through in all of the straightwall Magnum calibers for me, to include the Ruger-level 45 Colt loadings. Very useful and tractable ballistics. Herco is your friend in this ZIP Code.

Back in the days before 296/H110, Herco and 2400 were the go to powders for full power magnum loads. They still do an excellent job of pushing boolits fast and accurately.

[Blackwater]

It's been a long time ago, but I shot similar loads of something like 1,000 fps. with SBWC's, and they certainly did a good job on the few smaller woodland creatures I shot with them, but for my use and at that time, I was still concerned with learning to use my speedloaders quickly and effectively and smoothly, so gave up on the square ended WC's in favor of more easily and quickly loaded bullets. Nothing at all wrong with the loads, except that they're the hardest ones to g et into a revolver using speed loaders.

And my experience with accuracy with them was good out to at least 100 yds., too, so I agree with the concept of the added velocity extending the range at which they stay stable. All the twist formulas I'm aware of shot velocity as one component of bullet stability, which of course is based on RPM's. Add more velocity,and the RPM's go up. Just makes sense, to me, at least.

[rintinglen]

I have used the 358-432 on and off for years in exactly this sort of load. Originally, I used the 160 grain boolit crimped in the crimp groove to let me know that was a full power "38-44" load to distinguish it from powder puff PPC loads.

[9.3X62AL]

Blackwater--NOT going to GO THERE with any RPM references on this site, such ponderings are the path to madness--sanctions--and removal. FWIW, Lyman #358430 (195 grain RN) seems to de-stabilize while passing through jackrabbits at 600-700 FPS speeds from 38 Specials. Sent forth at 1100-1200 FPS in the 357 Magnum, it seems to bore straight-through. In all cases, the recipient expires forthwith. I wish I could say the same for 9mm 147 grain JHP hits on jacks. (I know, HERESY--but I'm just reporting my results. Don't kill the messenger.)

[Wayne Dobbs]

I have been using Mihec 170 solid wadcutter in .357 mag. Around 1,000 fps. A problem solver to be sure.

Got a pic of what that WC looks like?

[jmort]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94842&d=1390926761

No pictures. No loaded rounds or bullets left right now. Never cast the HB, only as a solid. Tom/Accurate can make the exact same thing. Or a custom wadcutter.

[PS Paul]

Wait..... Let's go there and cover this RPM threshold/madness thing a little more. He he (insert purple font).

i also like to hot-rod full wadcutters in 357. H&G 50 and an old Lyman 35891 with BE, Red Dot, Green Dot, 2400, Unique, 110/296 (use both), WST, 4227, #9 and other powders have worked with a lot of good results and many outstanding results.....


I also also have two 452389 molds which pour a 185 gr button-nosed wadcutter. I use it in 45ACP, but I really like it in 45 Colt with 19 to 22 gr 4227!! A lot of fun and accurate, it's the load in my avatar.

So I guess you can say some of us really do belong to the "Hot-Rod Cuttin' Wad Club"!!

[tazman]

Got a pic of what that WC looks like?

Check out this link
http://www.three-peaks.net/bullet_molds.htm

There are pictures and diagrams of most Lyman bullet molds. The wadcutters have flat noses of just a small button.

[Thin Man]

Tazman's link and the Lyman chart shows the Lyman 358344 WC mold pattern. Years ago this same style was made by most of the mold makers. I have Modern-Bond molds for this style for both the 150 and 160 grain boolits. Side-by-side testing has convinced me that the 150 grain boolit holds tighter groups than the 160, but only slightly. This is for both 38 Spl and 357 Mg loads. I often refer to these boolits as "maximum SWC" style. The nose is outside the case and measures .348" diameter, well below the bore diameter, so no resistance (and pressure) comes from that part of the boolit (other than weight) when fired. These are my favorite boolit for casual carry and recreation use.

Thin Man

[tazman]

I also have the Modern Bond version of that boolit. It shoots great out of my 2" Smith. Better than almost anything else, actually. Not so much in my other guns. The 358432 and 358495 do better in the longer barrels for me.

[Petrol & Powder]

Thanks for sharing Char-Gar.

I'm still bouncing around with a couple of wadcutters and I'm pretty sure I need a better (longer) expander to get where I need to be. Even with WC brass I think the casing is sizing the bullet down just a tad.

I have a SAECO #053 WC (one center lube groove) that is promising but still giving me some trouble. My RCBS WC which has a more traditional multiple grove design does a little better.

[Char-Gar]

Finding an expander that will reach deep enough in the case for the deep seated wadcutter can be a problem. I took an old RCBS (.357) expander and modified it in my lathe for the task. I can tell you that is the hardest steel I have ever tried to turn. I had to use a carbide bit to get er done.

[Sean357]

PS Paul how did the 357wadcutter loads with the H110/296 workout? Been following this thread and must have missed your comment months ago. Had been thinking to myself at my bench the other night wondering how those powders would do and where to start with loads. Only been handloading for 2 years so maybe Im just looking in the wrong place but full charge wadcutter info is almost nonexistent. I've come to really like the full wadcutter and just want to see how far I can take it, any info would be appreciated.



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[joatmon]

Well I'll be danged! Been reloading since 79 and never tried to hot rod a wadcutter, guess I"ll have to change that.
Aaron

[tazman]

PS Paul how did the 357wadcutter loads with the H110/296 workout? Been following this thread and must have missed your comment months ago. Had been thinking to myself at my bench the other night wondering how those powders would do and where to start with loads. Only been handloading for 2 years so maybe Im just looking in the wrong place but full charge wadcutter info is almost nonexistent. I've come to really like the full wadcutter and just want to see how far I can take it, any info would be appreciated.


If you seat the wadcutter to crimp in one of the grease grooves instead of the crimp ring or use the 358432, you can treat it as if it were a SWC of the same weight and use the same powder charges. The wadcutter would then have the same amount of boolit inside the case so the pressures should be comparable.

[sandman228]

ive never tried hot rodding them but my own cast 148 gr wad cutters from a lee tl mold over 3.0 gr of titegroup in a 357 case shot very accurate out of my 686 .

[Thin Man]

I have two Modern-Bond molds that give me the best of both the wadcutter and semi-wadcutter balance. These are the D358582 (150 Gr.) and the D358627 (160 Gr.). Lyman also made a 150 Gr. mold 358344 in this pattern. You can view these on the Castpics site. These boolits impress me to be semi-wadcutters on steroids. The nose sections are slightly smaller then bore diameter, commonly .348" wide. This allows them to travel down the barrel without generating friction and resistance (and pressure). When testing both side-by-side in several revolvers I have always found tighter groups with the 150 Gr. pattern. In .38 Special I commonly load 5.0 Unique over the 150 Gr. boolit. For .357 Magnum I am still working with several powders to find the best group size with MV at 1,000 FPS from a S&W M-19 (2.5" barrel). These molds come up for sale only rarely and interest in them has surged lately. Accurate Molds offers this style (36-155W, also 36-155WC, plus others) and they would be a ready resource for quality molds.

Thin Man

[Sean357]

Tazman, rereading PS Paul's comment and seeing what boolits he is using, that makes sense. I've a couple hundred of RimRocks 155 gr SCG-DEWC left, maybe I'll try out Char-Gar's load while getting looking for something with multiple lube grooves.

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[OldManMontgomery]

Matt's bullets make a 157 grain 'wadcutter' bullet in .38/.357 caliber. It isn't a full cylindrical shape like a proper wadcutter, but has a slightly smaller fore end and is loaded 'out' of the case like a conventional bullet. I rather like it for defense or small game use. I haven't tried it for accuracy at extended ranges, but it holds on fairly well out to 25 yards or so. A slower powder is probably more useful.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Good thread dug from the archives! I may have to give this a go. I'd like to see what 357 wadcutters do from a rifle.

[waco]

Good thread dug from the archives! I may have to give this a go. I'd like to see what 357 wadcutters do from a rifle.

What rifle? Will a lever gun feed a full WC?

[Drm50]

I shoot mostly Wadcutters and have loaded them 950-1000fps. I poured some from straight WWs for 357 and crimped on a grease groove. Didn't do as well as a SWC out of the 357. Have done same with 45 Colt at 800fps and it didn't do bad. Both are Lyman Ideal button nose, 148gr & 242gr respectively.

[Outpost75]

Here is what I am shooting in my S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman and Ruger Service Six:

243698243699243700

[Silvercreek Farmer]

What rifle? Will a lever gun feed a full WC?

Ruger 77/357. I'm okay with single feeding if needed.

[AnthonyB]

My 77/357 will feed wadcutters in 38 Special brass when the bolt is worked smartly. Just learned this a few days ago while killing turtles in the pond...

[RedHawk357Mag]

From the complete reloading manual for the 357 magnum copyright 2004. My hand written side bar denotes Alliant 2002 contained the same data.

Unique/6.4/1465fps/33,8psi
Green Dot/5.1/1310fps/34,0psi
Red Dot/4.6/1300fps/33,6psi
Bullseye/5.7/1475fps/34,0psi
Herco/6.7/1510fps/33,9psi

These are MAX loads and I reduced by the standard ten percent and worked up with no drama. Found all I needed prior to hitting max data. Definitely DO NOT use skirted wad cutters with the above loads.

The Herco information comes from the Alliant manual and wasn't provided by the 2004 source manual.

Barrel 5.6"/Federal 200 primer/COL1.330"

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[Silvercreek Farmer]

148 grain cast wadcutters?


From the complete reloading manual for the 357 magnum copyright 2004. My hand written side bar denotes Alliant 2002 contained the same data.

Unique/6.4/1465fps/33,8psi
Green Dot/5.1/1310fps/34,0psi
Red Dot/4.6/1300fps/33,6psi
Bullseye/5.7/1475fps/34,0psi
Herco/6.7/1510fps/33,9psi

These are MAX loads and I reduced by the standard ten percent and worked up with no drama. Found all I needed prior to hitting max data. Definitely DO NOT use skirted wad cutters with the above loads.

The Herco information comes from the Alliant manual and wasn't provided by the 2004 source manual.

Barrel 5.6"/Federal 200 primer/COL1.330"

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[RedHawk357Mag]

Yes Sir, I would not try soft swagged ones. And absolutely positively no skirted wad cutters. Reduced by ten percent gives pretty good velocity.

From my notes random loads 5in GP100 10 end avg.

4.8 BE @1028
4.6 Green Dot @987
6.0 Herco @1102
4.2 Red Dot @954
5.2 Unique@963


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[kir_kenix]

I load 12.5 gr of 2400 behind a variety of cast 148gr wc's. Very accurate in a variety of .357's and a good penetrator. Not exactly hot rodding it, but plenty enough 'oomph' for most critters. Pretty good muzzle flash at night in <4" barrel though. I pack this load around the farm regularly, and I've popped vermin and/or predators out to at least 60 yards with it.

I know this load will enter the lower jaw and exit the pelvis region of an angry 120 lb calf killing rottweiler at 5 feet. I always try to keep a couple hundred of them loaded up.

[Good Cheer]

If a body can find one of the old NEI 148 grain gas checked wadcutter molds, size the front end to slip into the chamber throats and load 'em up with 296 seated out long as you can find a place to crimp as was described above...
you'll likely have some good revolver loads.

[Groo]

Blackwater--NOT going to GO THERE with any RPM references on this site, such ponderings are the path to madness--sanctions--and removal. FWIW, Lyman #358430 (195 grain RN) seems to de-stabilize while passing through jackrabbits at 600-700 FPS speeds from 38 Specials. Sent forth at 1100-1200 FPS in the 357 Magnum, it seems to bore straight-through. In all cases, the recipient expires forthwith. I wish I could say the same for 9mm 147 grain JHP hits on jacks. (I know, HERESY--but I'm just reporting my results. Don't kill the messenger.)

Groo here
I rezemble that remark!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!