Reloads for Cowboy Action

[Naphtali]

I have been informed that first generation 45 Colt Colt SAAs require pressures that are generally used for 45 Colt revolvers in "Cowboy Action" shooting. Obviously, loading current brass with black powder would be below or meet such pressure levels. What I find regarding exterior ballistics of factory "Cowboy Action" 45 Colt ammunition is that there is a large variation in listed muzzle velocities among different factory cartridges having identical bullet weights when all cartridges are loaded with smokeless powder (via Midway Arms' web site).

Please identify smokeless powders that can be efficiently loaded to yield "Cowboy Action" pressures with 250- and 225-grain cast lead bullets. If possible, include TiteGroup as one of these powders. Hodgdon's web site' 45 Colt handloading data are not as clear on this subject as I prefer. Pressure levels are listed, but I do not know what "Cowboy Action" pressures are. Without this information, Hodgdon's information is not yet useful.

[Ola]

Please identify smokeless powders that can be efficiently loaded to yield "Cowboy Action" pressures with 250- and 225-grain cast lead bullets.
http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading-data/cowboy-action-shooting/-45-colt.html

EDIT: Please, take a look at this!!!: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?238490-Cowboy-Loads-information-from-Vihtavuori

[Scharfschuetze]

From what I've observed at cowboy matches, the loads are pretty light stuff on the left end of the loading charts.

Given that, your predilection for Tightgroup and Bullseye with light boolits is correct. My chronograph testing shows that Tightgroup is the least position sensitive of the commonly available fast powders, but Bullseye isn't bad either. Winchester's 231 is position sensitive in the 45 Colt when used in these light loads, but it is still very usable at the short ranges and the fairly large targets used in this style of shooting.

Here are some lighter than normal boolit weight 45 Colt loads with Winchester 231 powder from my record book. Firearm used was a Uberti 7 1/2" 1873 replica.

200 grain SWC (45 ACP boolit)
CCI 300 primer - WW Cases - slight roll crimp at the SWC shoulder - OAL 1.59"
8.0 grains of 231
850 fps
2" 15 shot groups at 20 yards

230 grain RN (45 ACP boolit)
CCI 300 primer - WW Cases - Light roll crimp at the start of the boolit's ogive
7.6 grains 231
795 fps Average.
When tested for position sensitivity: Up orientation = 890 fps Down orientation = 700 fps
2" 15 shot groups at 20 yards

None of the above loads are "hot" by any means and should be OK in an early Colt. Of course you'll have to make the decision if that old Colt is shootable or not. There is no guaranty on old guns.

If you are using Tightgroup or Bullseye powder, I'd start with 6.0 grains of it under your 200 grain boolit and 5.0 grains of it under the 250 grain boolit and see if that's what you want. Both loads should be well within the capabilities of a first generation antique Colt if it is in sound condition.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Trail Boss is very popular because it fills the voluminous black powder battle cartridge .45. It's a real problem loading down a high volume case with a scant dusting of fast burning powder. If your rifle is not calibrated to .45 Colt, consider Schofield brass. I have Starline and it makes loading for cowboy much less worrisome.

5.8 gr of Trail Boss clocks 700 fps with my 250 gr bullet out of my Colt 4 3/4". The Hodgdon manual labels this load at 12,700 CUP.

Mostly I shoot 8.0 to 8.5 gr of Unique with my 250 gr cast, but this is not a great cowboy load. I shoot the .44 Special in cowboy.

In the current Speer #14 Allen Jones has an excellent article on reloading for cowboy. He encourages bulky powders and bullet weights that are not in the silly lightweight range.

Loading for for cowboy involves loading lots of rounds, progressive presses are best for loading lots of rounds. Loading lots of high volume cases with quick burning propellants on a progressive presses can be a combination which leads to disaster. Odd that the study of blown guns leaves us still asking questions but one thing that is consistent with blown single action revolvers is that they were blown while shoot light loads, not heavy loads.

[ReloaderFred]

I sometimes shoot my .45 Colt handguns and rifles in SASS matches, and for those I shoot a 200 gr. RNFP bullet with 5.5 to 6.0 grains of TrailBoss. They shoot to point of aim in all my guns.

A lot of people badmouth light SASS loads, but there are reasons for those loads. Number one is that we're shooting steel targets relatively close, and light loads reduce splatter and bounceback. The second reason is steel targets are expensive, and even if made with AR500 steel, they still take a beating from all the hits. Light loads mean the targets last longer.

SASS Shooting was designed for one thing, and that's to have fun. It's not meant to be training for anything, just for a bunch of like minded people to be able to get together and have fun while shooting. That's why there's over 100,000 of us doing it..... And about a third of those are women. The women make it fun, and some of them are darn good shots, too!

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Texantothecore]

700 fps with a 250 grn bullet is the classic 45lc load. It is within cowboy action shooting requirements and your gun will shoot accurately. Hodgdon data has a good number of loads that will be at that level.
Go to a CAS event and ask what loads they are using.

[StrawHat]

Who was it that wrote the article in Handloader magazine about the several different pressure levels of the 45 long Colt? I was going to search but hard to do without some of the information!

Kevin

[Silver Jack Hammer]

That was Brian Pearce, I'm sure I've got the magazine around here somewhere. I've transferred some of the data into my load book here. The loads are a little warm for cowboy. Handloader August 2012 8.2 gr Power Pistol 454190 .454" 915 fps, safe in a post WW2 SAA. When I get 850 fps with 8.5 gr Power Pistol. Handloader December 2011 8.0 gr Power Pistol 921 fps 14,000 PSI.

I use an 8.0 dolap of Unique for the field, and I shot a match last weekend with this load but 5.7 gr of Trail Boss is better for cowboy, the Unique load is unnecessarily warm for a match.

[rintinglen]

I think you are looking for loads in the 11,000 to 12,000 cup range. I would look at a 230 grain boolit (I like the RCBS 45-230 CM) and 6.2 grains of Red Dot in a 45 Colt case. Other loads I would suggest for this boolit would be 8.0 grains of Unique, 7.2 grains of WW-231/HP-38, or 6.3 grains of Titegroup. I would not go much if any higher.

[StrawHat]

That was Brian Pearce, I'm sure I've got the magazine around here somewhere. I've transferred some of the data into my load book here. The loads are a little warm for cowboy. Handloader August 2012 8.2 gr Power Pistol 454190 .454" 915 fps, safe in a post WW2 SAA. When I get 850 fps with 8.5 gr Power Pistol. Handloader December 2011 8.0 gr Power Pistol 921 fps 14,000 PSI.

I use an 8.0 dolap of Unique for the field, and I shot a match last weekend with this load but 5.7 gr of Trail Boss is better for cowboy, the Unique load is unnecessarily warm for a match.

Brian Pearce, thank you. I know he penned an article that separated the 45 long Colt into the various pressure classes, ie Model P, S&W M25, Ruger SBH, and beyond.

There is also some info on loading Cowboy strength loads at the cascity forum.

Kevin

[smilin jack]

Very interesting talk.
I'm trying to figure a Trail Boss load/240gr cast bowling pin load for my Ruger Redhawk 7.5" in 44 mag. Their site says 7.3g max so will give it a try.
Paul, who most often wins the evening's shoot, says 7.3g of Trail Boss. He gave me a handful of loads to try and I liked them.
I've been using my 1911A1 for several years on pins but decided to try the 44 mag.
Jack

[35remington]

There is a limit as to what "position insensitive" (it is really not always as advertised) Titegroup can accomplish. With standard bullet weights and reasonable pressures it does pretty well in reducing extreme spreads in velocity due to position variables. Run notably lighter than standard weights at low pressures and it doesn't do so hot.

Try whatever powder choice you may and through diligent testing see what works best. Ballistically inconsistent but not dangerous is possible. That is fine by many guys but it is not my thing.

Too much fast burning powder in a case is known to be dangerous. If you are horribly forgetful maybe Trailboss might have advantages.....but if one is prone to distraction maybe that person should not be loading ammo. Titegroup is probably one powder you can triple charge in many instances.

[dverna]

I use the .38 for CAS, but if I was shooting the .45LC I would use the lightest listed load. You will get dirty cases with the low pressure. If you want to be competitive, you want a light load.

Also consider using a bullet under 200 gr. Most of the pistol targets are under 10 yards and large. Accuracy is secondary to reduced recoil.

If you just want to have fun, ignore the above.

[M-Tecs]

This Thread is a year old. First generation Colts ended in 1941 and the 14,000 psi SAAMI 45 Colt is based on being safe in them, however, Colt never certified the original black powder frames as being safe with any smokeless loads.

Most first generation Colt are to valuable to shoot in SASS.

[Kosh75287]

I use an 8.0 dolap of Unique for the field, and I shot a match last weekend with this load but 5.7 gr of Trail Boss is better for cowboy, the Unique load is unnecessarily warm for a match. The 8.0/Unique/250RNFP load is something of a "go to" load for me. Backing the charge off to 7.2/Unique/230-250Cast might give a pretty manageable CAS load, without having to go buy another pound of powder.