44 Lever Gun advice

[tom357]

Hello all,

First post here on the forum. Been lurking and reading for a long time.

I have a question for those of you who own .44 magnum Lever Guns. What I am looking for is a rifle to use kind of like a .44-40. 200 rnfp's at 1,100-11,300 fps or so. Ideally, that load will shoot well in my 629-5 Mountain Gun also and they will be companions. This way, I would have a rifle that, from a ballistics and recoil standpoint, is very similar to the .44-40 but with more common brass, dies, etc. I have a couple of Ruger .44's also. They have larger throats than the Smith does. My question is about twist rates and bore diameters. From what I've read here, most .44 rifles have large bores (.431) and require .432-.433 boolits. Is this the consensus? I'd rather not have to open the throats on my Smith just to make it shoot the same load as my rifle, but if that's the only way... I think my Rugers will be able to share the larger diameter boolits with the lever gun, but the Smith is nice and light and slick. It would be the better companion for the lever gun.

Obviously, everyone's gun is different, but will the current crop of .44 lever guns out there shoot the 200 grain boolits well? I would use heavier boolits when they are needed, but for general plinking and such, I'd really like to use the 200 rnfp and have a more versatile .44-40. That's my idea anyway.

Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. - mainly looking at the Rossi, Henry or Marlin.

[Outpost75]

Soft .44 bullets at moderate velocity loaded with relatively fast-burning powders are very forgiving as to variations in cylinder throat and barrel groove size. I have several .44-40 and .44 Magnum revolvers and rifles, and shoot the same Accurate 43-230G bullet in all of them, cast 1:30 tin/lead and sized .431, loading 7.2 grains of Bullseye across the board in all four revolvers three Rugers and one Smith and in both Marlin rifles.

Try this proven recipe and I think you might find that it works for you.

163866

[TCFAN]

I shoot the Accurate 43-230C boolit in my Marlin 94 Cow Boy with the 20 inch barrel.I had the mold cut to cast at .434 with COWW and I lube and gas check in a .4345 H&I lube size die in my Lyman 450. I then size the lubed and checked boolits in a custom Lee push through size die to size at .433.These shoot very well in my rifle. I make my gas checks so there is a very small expense in using a gas check which works better in my rifle.
These boolits are shot with 10grs of Unique which gives me right at 1400 fps.A very pleasant load...........Terry

[30calflash]

Good info Outpost.

What is a good soft alloy for mid range rifle and revolver loads?

A/C WW's have been a go to for most of my mid range loads. There's a lot of various soft alloys out there, WW's, lead plus, even 22 backstop lead. I've some of all those. Some direction here would be good.

[Outpost75]

I use 1:30 tin/lead from Roto Metals for my blackpowder cartridge as well as for smokeless revolver loads up to 1000 fps and for plainbased rifle loads up to 1400 fps. I use mostly Bullseye for everything from the .32 ACP up through the .375 H&H. It performs well also in gaschecked loads for hunting purposes up to about 1300 fps in revolver and 1800 fps in rifle.

For reliable expansion of hollow-point revolver bullets below 850 fps I go to 1:40 in/lead.

[tom357]

Good stuff so far. Thanks. Sounds like my commercial cast stuff might not be ideal. I'm just going to have to start casting my own, aren't I?

[Tatume]

Hi Tom,

Welcome to the forum.

Re-cutting the throats of your S&W M629 Mountain gun may be the best move you ever made. I'm certainly pleased with the results in my own. If you're not ready to do your own, we have a fellow here on the forum who will do the job for a modest cost.

The end result will be that the best performing bullets in your Rugers will also be your best performing bullets for the S&W.

Take care, Tom

[Outpost75]

Agree that reaming the S&W cylinder to match the Rugers is an easy "do", but I would advise shooting it first with soft bullets and moderate loads approximating blackpowder. 44-40 or .45 Colt energy, such as the 7.0-7.2 grains of Bullseye, which I use, or 7.5-8.0 grains of W231 or WST or 8.0-8.5 of Unique or Universal.

My S&W .44-40 Texas Commemorative has .4285 throats and a .429 barrel. I did not ream the cylinder, and it shoots very well with either jacketed .44-40 factory loads, handloads with .429" jacketed bullets or my soft cast bullet loads. No leading issues either.

So test fire before deciding whether to ream. You may be pleasantly surprised!

[Outpost75]

Good stuff so far. Thanks. Sounds like my commercial cast stuff might not be ideal. I'm just going to have to start casting my own, aren't I?


Matts Bullets has some .44-40s he runs in 1:20 alloy, you might try some.

Otherwise in common scrap alloy a 50-50 ratio of wheelweights and plumber's lead is about right, with just a liitle tin, no more than 1%, to aid fill-out, if needed.

If you have scrap linotype, 1 pound of linotype to four of plumber's lead works well. You don't need or want any harder than 10 BHN.

[Shuz]

I shoot 225g .431 diam boolits behind 7g of Trail Boss all the time in my Smith 629-4 Mtn gun. Throats on the Smith are .4285, yet the load performs well and does not lead the FC or the bbl! This is my go to load in my .44 mag Rossi, and my Winnie .44 mag trapper.
Those who have not tried Trail Boss for 1000 fps area loads, should do themselves a favor and try it, at least in the .44 mag. It is the most forgiving powder I have ever used in over 53 years experience shooting cast in the . 44 mag. Other powders, like my favorite Green Dot, that I have used for years for 1000 fps loads, had to have the boolits tailored to the throats to prevent leading. Not so with Trail Boss.
One caveat--Trail Boss is meant for 800 to 1000, perhaps 1050fps loads, do not think that if 7g is so good, maybe "more would be better?" If you want more velocity, use a different powder and pay the usual attention to boolit/throat relationships.
7g of Trail Boss fills the case to the bottom of the 225g boolit and is NOT a compressed load. The mfr says NOT to compress loads with Trail Boss, and I have followed their recommendations.
Trail Boss is not cheap, and sells for $16.99/for a 9 ounce bottle that is in the same sized bottle as the usual one pounders!
If you can find a 5 lb jug like I did, the cost per pound goes way down to about $24.00.

[ironhead7544]

I use the Dardas .433 200 gr RNFP and 9.0 gr Unique in Magnum cases. 1325 fps from a 24 inch 1894 Cowboy in 44 Magnum. 1 inch groups at 50 yards, with scope. No leading. Dont have a revolver at the moment so havent tried it in one yet.

For the .433 bullet, I would recommend the Lee Collet Crimp die in a separate step. I tried the Lee Factory Crimp but it swaged the bullet down. The RCBS Cowboy dies are reported to work OK with this diameter bullet.

[tom357]

I use the Dardas .433 200 gr RNFP and 9.0 gr Unique in Magnum cases. 1325 fps from a 24 inch 1894 Cowboy in 44 Magnum. 1 inch groups at 50 yards, with scope. No leading. Dont have a revolver at the moment so havent tried it in one yet.

For the .433 bullet, I would recommend the Lee Collet Crimp die in a separate step. I tried the Lee Factory Crimp but it swaged the bullet down. The RCBS Cowboy dies are reported to work OK with this diameter bullet.

I shoot that same Dardas boolit @ .430 & .431 in my revolvers. That is the boolit I had in mind in my OP. I use standard carbide RCBS.

[10mmShooter]

I run a 240gr .432 sized LRN-FP in my Henry leveraction, but for my SW629, I run a 250 gr K-SWC sized to .430, I load them to similar mild target velocities. the .432 is just a touch to big for the revolver. Additional benefit is that its easy to tell the revolver loads and rifle loads apart in case they ever got mixed up.

[35 Whelen]

My philosophy has become "shoot first, ask later", meaning I don't slug bores, measure throats, worry about twist rates, etc. until there's a problem, which there never seems to be. I shoot five different .44 Special revolvers (Ruger, Charter Arms and Uberti), a Uberti 1866 44-40, and a Uberti 1873 .44 Magnum. Everything gets sized .430" across the board, and accuracy, especially in the Ruger and two of the Uberti SA's is astounding. A few here were wringing their hands and fretting over twist rates in .44's stating that a 1-in-38 twist might stabilize a round ball. So I loaded some 247 gr. SWC's in my 1866 and grouped them at 100 yds. They were fine. Again, just pick your favorite rifle and SHOOT!

35W