Underhammers

[Bret4207]

http://www.underhammers.com/

Finally found a supplier of underhammer kits. I've always liked the mud fence homely look of these designs, I don't know why. He's got them from .32 to 12 bore and prices are pretty reasonable. The barrels allegedly interchange. He makes some claims that don't follow my experience- if it won't shoot a RB with a 1/66 twist try a conical or maxi. Seems it should be the other way around to me. ANyway, I'm adding this to my list of wants. I'm thinking a "buggy rifle" in 32 with a nice peep and beach type front sight.

[waksupi]

Brett, I looked at the underhammer. It is the basic design that has been around for years. If you get one, plan on making a different buttstock for it. I've shot this design in .45 cal., and it smote me mightely. I didn't care to shoot it more than a couple times.
When Montana Rifle Barrel Co. was making guns for Brno, they were also producing an underhammer design rifle, with a stock that fit a man proper. I don't know if a fellow could run one of these down or not.

[Bullshop]

Waksupi
Many moon past I went to talk to Les Bauska in Kalispel about training after my logging injury. He had just left everything to his son that had the ML production. Les said he knew what I wanted but he was ready to retire. His son just wanted a free employe payed for by comp as ojt. He wanted to put me on a line turning a screw on the ML production so I passed on the training. I mention this as I recall they were at the time produceing what they called a mule ear side hammer not an underhammer. They seemed to be a nice gun if you were right handed as the hammer was on the right side. They made a bunch of those but I cant remember ever seeing them for sale anywhere. Les was a well respected smith in western MT. and I had hoped to work with him. I will always remember visiting him in his shop filled with old guns standing or hanging anywhere one could fit. At that moment I was as excited as a kid on Christmas morning but was trying to be cool talking to Les, but I couldnt hide the butter flies and jumpin beans.
BIC/BS

[waksupi]

Waksupi
Many moon past I went to talk to Les Bauska in Kalispel about training after my logging injury. He had just left everything to his son that had the ML production. Les said he knew what I wanted but he was ready to retire. His son just wanted a free employe payed for by comp as ojt. He wanted to put me on a line turning a screw on the ML production so I passed on the training. I mention this as I recall they were at the time produceing what they called a mule ear side hammer not an underhammer. They seemed to be a nice gun if you were right handed as the hammer was on the right side. They made a bunch of those but I cant remember ever seeing them for sale anywhere. Les was a well respected smith in western MT. and I had hoped to work with him. I will always remember visiting him in his shop filled with old guns standing or hanging anywhere one could fit. At that moment I was as excited as a kid on Christmas morning but was trying to be cool talking to Les, but I couldnt hide the butter flies and jumpin beans.
BIC/BS

Bullshop, you are right, they were making a side slapper. I disremembered incorrectly.
Les is still alive, although is pretty much wheelchair bound. I saw and talked to him a few weeks ago. He's still sharp as a tack.

[StanDahl]

I bought an underhammer from R-V Marketing about 5 years back. I believe Deer Creek was somehow involved. Bruce (from the link above) has slicked up his site considerably since I last saw it. He used to really go into overdrive on the sales pitch, with page after page of the benefits of the underhammer system. You'd have thought that an underhammer could cure hemorrhoids if applied correctly. He seems to have a better selection in better materials than in the past too.

The one I got was about as basic a rifle as could ever be imagined. It looks pretty much like the one on the main page, except for a brass buttplate. The barrel took a browning treatment poorly. The wood took a finish nicely. The trigger looked almost like pot metal and the sear broke the first time out, but it was replaced quickly. It's 45 caliber and it shoots okay, but I haven't taken it out much. He says a benefit of the underhammer action is that there isn't any flash in the face, but I have to wear a long sleeve to protect my left forearm - the spring/trigger guard isn't real sturdy, and I get peppered with sparks on ignition as the hammer gets blown back, sometimes all the way to half cock.

I too like the underhammer idea, but there must have been a reason they weren't so popular back when. If I had it to do again, I would have spent more money for a sturdier model. Maybe Bruce has improved models - it's worth a look. Stan

[drinks]

I have a Hopkins & Allen repro made by Numrich Arms during the '60's and '70's.
Dixie handled them and there must have been a fair amount sold, because my buggy carbine was bought in '67 and had a serial # of 10xxx.
I believe they were available in .36, .45 and .50, mine is a .36.
Very simple design, the hammer and the trigger are the parts that move, the trigger guard is the mainspring and there is a very small coil spring on the trigger.
The action/ barrel is one piece, all lockwork is in the tail of the barrel.
Another co. is making very similar rifles, but the barrel and action are seperate pieces. The current producer sells for $250, last I heard.
I shall try to post pictures of mine.

[Bullshop]

Anybody remember the Zepher?
BIC/BS

[StanDahl]

Anybody remember the Zepher?
BIC/BS

From what I have read the Pacific Rifle Co. Zephyr comes in shotgun bore sizes, a 12 bore takes a big old round ball, has a 1:144 twist, and uses 150-300 grains of FFg black powder at launch. Blows through most critters on most continents. Stan

[Bullshop]

From what I have read the Pacific Rifle Co. Zephyr comes in shotgun bore sizes, a 12 bore takes a big old round ball, has a 1:144 twist, and uses 150-300 grains of FFg black powder at launch. Blows through most critters on most continents. Stan
StanDahl
Very good indeed Stan you may move to the head of the class. One more question, do ya think with 300gn ffg touched off that under hammer will reset itself?
BIC/BS

[StanDahl]

I would hope not! If there was a rebounding hammer on the Zephyr, you'd need your basic medieval armored gauntlet over kevlar on your support arm to keep the arm intact when touching off that cannon. Then, that could be a useful feature to help get your next shot off that much quicker - auto-decapping and self-cocking in one step. BTW, Zephyr means a 'soft, gentle breeze'. This is interesting, considering that I think they made those all the way up to 4 bore! Stan

[Bret4207]

Wasn't the Zephyr one of those streamlined super fast cross county steam trains back in the 40's and 50's? Maven would know. I can see no reason for poping off that much powder even if it is a 12 bore. The guy talks about 300 grains someplace. Just doesn't seem right.

[Bullshop]

Stan
Owooch, that soundt painfull. I used to have a 12 bore rifle made by Ron Paul when he was my neibor in Montana. I shot it with 200gn and it was wild. It would spit fire and want to point straight up at the sky. I killed just one animal with it a little black tail deer on Prince of Whales Isl. I and a friend were camping in an old clear cut waiting for the timber jobs to open up about the end of Feb. We were roughing it and were having a steady diet of clams and flounder. After about two weeks I told friend I had about enough of that and by golly gosh I was going to have some meat. I had the rifle, powder, caps, and mold stashed in my PU. We had found some discarded equipment batteries so we knocked off the outer terminals and melted them on a spruce fire in a coffie can. That day by golly we had meat. I hit a little buck squairly in the heart, then brought the rifle back to camp and told Erick we would be having heart in just a little bit. When I dressed it out found that big ounce ball had pretty well exploded the heart and all I could find was a hand full of the bottom tip. Well we had liver instead of heart but that seemed way better than having clams again.
BIC/BS

[drinks]

Zephyr is also a gentle wind, obviously not appropriate, or a cheap, down graded Lincoln model from the '30's.
The car might be closer, considering the size of some of the bores.

[wills]

http://www.pacificrifle.com/docs/Catalog.pdf

[Abert Rim]

Always wanted to shoot one of those Zephyrs with the Forsythe-rifled barrels, but they wre too spendy for my budget.
By the way, Log Cabin Shop sells a simple underhammer action that a fellow in West Virginia uses to build target rifles with. He's a college professor and has built some lovely copies of the Billinghurst-style rifles (See Ned Roberts' "Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle") using barrels by Bill Moody with a false muzzle. Very sweet, and the whole package can come together for not much more than those homely Deer Creek kits.