Met a new boolit caster today. Oh boy the young generation is in trouble.

[Outer Rondacker]

Well I like most on this forum like to give back to the community of casters. So it goes without saying when the phone rings and the local gun shop ask you to talk to a new bullet caster you say sure. Shop owner gives my address and I let him swing over. He has a small box with him and as we enter my reloading room I tell him to take a seat, he tells me it wont take long. Ok youngster what can I do for you. He hands me some 357 mag projectiles. Take a look. 163827 So he starts to tell me that he is having issues getting them in the cases. I ask are you loading them like this. Yes how else would you reload them. Then he tells me he is in a rush, tells me to write down his number and text him the answer why they wont work in his gun. I walk him out and ask what gun he has. Glock 26 (9mm). He left the hand full of bullets. I tossed his number in the can then took it back out again and tossed it into the fireplace. I do not text. If you dont have the time then ugggggg. What is wrong with the younger generation? Do they not know how to read? I dropped one on a scale. Looks a lot like a 158 lee mold to me and I was correct. They feel soft. Have all sorts of wrinkles. Hollow bases. I was able to pull one apart with my finger nails. The two on the right are not even full bullets. I called my friend the shop owner and left him a message to call me back when he gets back in from dinner.

I told him to join here and I hope he does. I know I know but I hope he finds this thread.

How many things can you find wrong with his short visit and product presented?

[PS Paul]

Some just simply are not cut out for the intricacies casting/reloading present. In other words, the young man just doesn't have the personality traits required to do this safely, correctly or reasonably. It ain't for him.

[.455 Webley]

Thank you for even trying to help this young man. If someone doesn't show him how to do this right he may get himself hurt.

[dverna]

The guy had no manners and no respect. The age of instant gratification. I have no use for them. It is characters like this that need "tough love". But for most it is too late. Hard to overcome bad parenting.

[shredder]

Yikes! I have to agree that some are just not cut out for something this intricate and potentially dangerous. No time? Then why are you here? I think the fireplace was the best choice.

[nvbirdman]

I think I would have texted him "Come back when you have time to learn".

[PaulG67]

If those boolits are what he planned to use then he is not someone I would want to be near at the range. I get the impression from your post that he is in a hurry. He needs instruction, I don't think he will learn it by himself. I don't think he has the attitude that will allow him to slow down and take the time to learn that reloading is not something that is done on a whim or in a casual manner.

[Outer Rondacker]

I do not know how to text. I do not own a cell phone. It gets worse just read...

I did speak to my friend the shop owner. He said the young man is in the military (air force) and 22 years or so of age. I told him he was not here for three minutes and he wanted me to text him with the answer. The gun show owner said I was hoping you would put him in his place as he keeps telling me the gun I sold him is defective since the bullets will not fit. I told my friend I tossed his text number in the fire but to tell the young man to call me if he has interest in reloading and bullet making. Being in the military this is his one lifeline I give him. I do not even know his name as he was so rude to not take the time to introduce himself. We are going to work together and offer this youngster a chance to redeem himself.

Youngster if you are reading this all hope is not lost but you will earn what you learn.

[runfiverun]

there's 2 or 3 mostly sorta useable ones there.
all they need is some lube and a gas check.

[Outer Rondacker]

I have a feeling he has no clue what a gas check is or lube. For that mater a sizer. Oh wait 160g in a 9mm glock humm. I am holding back so badly. What he needs is a good swift kick in the @$$.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

it looks like some boolits dressed up for Halloween, OH! The horror! haahaa

[Yodogsandman]

When I was that age, I didn't have time for nothing either. Wife...bunch of kids...house repairs...fix the car....job...commitments. He might not have really had the time to even meet with you then. But, stopped in to meet you at the urging of the gun shop owner, any way. He went to where he thought he'd find some help. Probably a bit nervous of meeting personally with the local lead bullet casting legend. Hope he finds this site, he could use some help with those boolits. When he can fit in some time.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

were not all like that, I am 29, I have never gotten into the Gameboys,cell phones, and computers, save for learning( mainly places like this). sure, I carry an old cellphone for emergencies, but I mean that literally. if my mom or dad call me I answer too so I might use 2-3 minutes a month. But if he is serving our country I think we owe him at least one more shot, even if it is tough love. heck send him here and have him read old threads from every forum for a while,he will see what is involved and either get serious or decide its not for him. good for you for giving it a try. we all need mentors. thanks
Travis

[Blammer]

tell the shop owner to text the boy this message. : "wrong mould, poorly made bullets, use store bought ammo."

[Walter Laich]

I tried to think how I would proceed from here if it were me....

Tell shop owner if the guy comes back in tell him that I would be glad to talk about this but it's going to take some time to cover just the basics.
Would be willing to show him how I do it and what good bullets look like

and I would be ready to move on to something else if he won't/can't meet me half way

[Floydster]

Dverna, agree with your post.
Floydster

[Andy]

Good of you to still keep the line of communication open with him. He behaved rudely but for all we know he never had a father to teach him how to act around other men and he's just been learning how to behave from friends his age. He is at least trying to cast his own bullets so he's a step ahead of most of his peers just from that fact alone. Hopefully he will come back and be more patient and respectful in the future.

For my part in this sort of thing, as long as a person is not flippant about gun safety I will go to just about any length to get them more into firearms. I feel like we have to bring in and keep every new shooter we can or we're not going to have any gun rights in 50 years.

Re-reading this before I post it I want to make sure I don't come across like I'm saying you should have done anything different, it sounds like you did everything you could given his reluctance to even spend a few minutes there. I just wanted to post this in the hopes that if he comes by again you might give him a clean slate for the second visit and perhaps he will have his head on right that day and listen to you.

[OS OK]

Let me share about 'first assumptions and judgement calls'…About 40 years ago I was running a shop for an Electrical Contractor in SO. Cal. and my position was general foreman over all his jobs. I was slammed with running contracts to fulfill and I was suffering from a lack of qualified journeymen to do the work.
Buck, owner of the shop did all the hiring at that point and I received a steady flow of men that I had to sort out and at the same time try to get some production with. We did exclusively heavy industrial machine control and power distribution…Newbie journeymen and helper/apprentices were not on my list of men that I had to have.
One morning I am introduced to a new employee and told to take him with me and put him in a crew. When I met this fella…same age as I was and saw his 'hippie hairdo' and heard his Michigan/Canadian type accent…it was all I could do not to blow my fuse right then and there! I thought to myself that I'd work this 'so-inso's' butt off, give him the lowest dirtiest menial jobs I could purposefully round up…he became my target and I was relentless to get this guy to quit of his own accord.
As things turned out 'Fred the Hippie' was the most energetic, best natured, smart!!!, dependable and likable person on any crew he ever served with. All my foremen instantly liked him and Freddie learned at an exceptional pace. In three short years I had Freddie running small jobs with other seasoned journeymen under him…
As time passed I got to know Freddie on a personal level…He was a Marine Veteran of Viet Namn…just that point alone made me love him as I too was a Marine…I never in a thousand years would have guessed that Freddie was who he turned out to be.
In the years to come I eventually Contracted for myself and the first man on my payroll was 'Fred the Hippie' my first and 'best' ever 'general foreman' over my shop. Fred stayed with me another 15 years and eventually moved home to Michigan. To this day Freddie was one of the best electricians I have ever worked with…but my 'first glance' told me to rub him into the dirt!
Sometimes our first assessments are way off…and solely because this young man you speak of is a veteran…Heck Yes…give him a try…sometimes you have to give them a little tough love and a whack or three upside the head but this kid got through boot camp and that alone is a certain measure to his character in that alone!

I've got an inkling that this kid might just work out…lets have a look at him a little closer…whatcha say?

OS OK

[Ole Joe Clarke]

Sounds like a lot of folks I know, if it takes more than 15 minutes to master, they don't have time for it. He's never cracked the cover on a reloading manual. I hope doesn't get hurt or hurt someone else.

[Bullwolf]

I feel your pain. Hopefully not all of the younger generation are in that much of a hurry. I like to hope that there are a few good ones out there who still want to learn. Every once in a while you can still find one who's worth teaching.

See it every day with even simple tasks like repairs, construction, and especially maintenance and working on vehicles. Most of the new generation simply buys everything new. It's all considered disposable to them. When something breaks they just replace it. Consequently, they never learn how to fix, repair, or maintain things. Most won't bother taking the time to learn to hand load or cast, as it's easier (faster) for them to just buy pre made ammunition.

Apparently I grew up in a different time, and was taught by depression era folks how to make things last. Often brand new replacements were not an option, so you had to learn to make do with what you have. If it broke, you fixed it or learned how, or else you did without.

My worry is that when the oldest greatest generation is gone, there will be very few knowledgeable folks left to teach the myriad lessons that we learned.

If I can find someone who really wants to learn how to cast and reload, I will do my best to teach them everything that I know. Much of this stuff can not be rushed, or absorbed from a 15 minute lesson, or you tube video. I actually like to read paper books and magazines, yet this old tried and tested learning method is now considered old fashioned, and frowned upon by the right now generation.

Sadly most of what we know and do here, is a very esoteric skill set. I can count the number of experienced bullet casters, and re-loaders that I know in person with one hand.




- Bullwolf

[Landshark9025]

I introduced one of the guys from work to shooting. Early 30s I guess. That turned into an obsession and now he comes to my house to reload for his 1911. And has another guy- who doesn't even own a gun, asking when he can come watch. Second guy just turned 30. Phrases like "you have to pay 100% attention" and "you can't try to talk. One conversation and you miss a step and have to start over." come from the newbie.

I could send you a picture of this guy operating a Lee turret with the index rod removed watching it like it was a nuclear reactor.

All hope is not lost.

[bedbugbilly]

There are a lot of fine young people out there who have the respect and common sense to take time to listen and learn. In fact, they can often teach us old guys a thing or two. But, unfortunately, there are a lot of that generation who want instant gratification, want everything handed to them without taking the time to study and learn and on top of it all, have no communication skills at all in regards to interaction with other individuals. I think you ran in to one of those . . . and unfortunately, unless he learns to listen and learn, he will not be a success at anything he does.

Most of us were "young and impatient" but we also were taught by our parents to respect and learn from those "more experienced" in skills. When I was young, I always enjoyed working with older fellows and I learned a lot from them regardless of the work or trade . . . and they were eager to share if you were willing to listen and learn.

As far as "texting: and cell phones . . . . such things are teaching people that they don't have to interact with others in person nor learn how to communicate on their own as far as verbalizing and talking . . . is it any woner so many marriages between young people end in divorce? They can't communicate and aren't willing to work hard and making something "work". I often wonder how a cell phone would work for fluxing a pot of lead? :-)

[leeggen]

Something is wrong when someone ask for help then doesn't have time to listen to the answers. I don't care if he has a mother or father that has nothing to do with this youngman. He is following what the government wants to happen--- you depend on others to do for you. Now before the flaming begins just think about it. He knew he had a problem but didn't have time to listen to what needs to be done to fix it and wants the op to fix his problem while he does other things. I don't care if he is military, if he went through boot camp he was taught better than this. Yeah let him tell a DI to text him cause he doesn't have time to listen. Now I am for helping anyone but they must want to learn for themselves. Texting a answer is the new youths way of not listening. Now I would leave the door open and if by chance he came back for help there would be some conversation he probably would not agree with but if he wants to learn he will have to do it. Sit here and read this section of this book and don't speak til your done, then we will talk abaout it. That is step 1.
I don't beleive he will return to op's house, he doesn't want to be told he is wrong in human voice. I would not lose sleep about him.
CD

[Krieger82]

Too bad. I am a youngin, but the old man imparted as much knowledge and wisdom as he could into my ignorant youthful brain before he passed on. That included being respectful and learning from those who know more than you and to be greatful for it. Sorry the experience was so distasteful, I assure you we are not all so impetuous.

[ArrowJ]

This entire forum would not exist without the invention of the telephone which was seen as a social destroyer by some when it started becoming prevalent. There is nothing inherently wrong with texting anymore than there is with computers. Imagine telling a mentor a few generations ago that you would look for his reply on the forum! "The forum? I threw that there http **** right in the fire. If he does not have time to pick up the phone and call me..."

The kid was rude, but the key word there is "kid". I have four of them around here the oldest being 17. If I had any hair left I would be pulling it out as he is a complete idiot most of the day almost every day.

All that being said, the OP is not this kids father and as such is not under obligation to deal with this particular idiot...thank goodness because if I had to try to help everyone else's kids and mine to the same degree I would just double charge a large case with the wrong powder and take a trip to the range.

IF the OP is willing to do the hard work it would be an act of kindness and a possible benefit to society. If he is not I hold no grudge as once I get these four out of my house I am tapping out.

[stubbicatt]

OP, sounds like a discouraging interaction with the young 'un. You meet all kinds in this world. It is kindness that you were willing to help him. Too bad his idea of "help" is that you do all the work, he reaps all the benefits. I had a business partner like this for a short time. I learned to stop her, ask her, if she wants my "help" to designate tasks each of us should do, and when we should meet to put it all together. She didn't like that very much. Too bad for her.

I've also learned that often free advice is not heeded. If he comes by again, make him work for it. Agree to offer him tutelage in exchange for something, like sweeping the shop or cleaning and oiling guns. If he has to work for it, perhaps he will value and appreciate what you are doing for him by paying attention to what you say. A little humility goes a long ways.

My 2 cents worth.

[OS OK]

leegen..A man who is good enough to shed his blood for the country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards

Theadore Roosevelt…((( Do you really mean what you said…or do you really believe in what Roosevelt said? )))

ArrowJ… ​I walked in your moccasins in the mid 80's when the last of our three left the nest…"Oh Boy, now I can get back to my 'bucket list', I thought, Now we cherish every moment when the kids come up to No. Cal. and stay through the holidays with the grandkids. Two of the four gk's have already made ammo and shot it well…"

My first impression of the event was that this kid was on leave or previously scheduled with something and had time constraints…second glance made me think that perhaps he was trying not to impose on this strangers time…Thirdly…About the texting part…unfortunately that is how this generation does things and it is all they know.

Remember when answer machines came on line? When one picked the line up and addressed me, it used to tee me off, I'm thinking that SOB is kicking back with a cold one and filtering his calls…The other side of that coin was the fact that so many times I was relieved that the machine picked up and gave me opportunity to leave a short message and hang up…I didn't want to have a lengthy conversation to start with but I need to leave an important message for my own purposes. I suppose technology can work in both directions depending on our moods at the time.

Bottom line is that we can't troubleshoot this one without having been there and been witness to the conversation…We have only one side of the story! That's sorta like…:takinWiz:in the wind.

Krieger82...Good for you…that shows wisdom at an early age…uncommon valor these days for sure!

[dudel]

I wouldn't tar and feather the entire "younger generation" based on this one poor interaction. I know several that I would be proud to call mine.

This one, on the other hand, needs some serious coaching. He needs to understand that he's dealing with explosive devices in his hands and near his face. Need to spend some time with him; because it's not only his well being; but also the people next to him at the range (one reason I prefer having a bay to myself). Explain to him (and the store owner) the risk of doing things the wrong way. Have him come back when he has an hour or two, and is willing to turn off his cell phone. There may yet be something to salvage there.

[Ole Joe Clarke]

I see lots of kids these days that have no parents, their grand parents are raising them. Then there are kids that Parents have passed. My father died when I was 9 years old, from a stroke, and I still miss him. If you were able to grow up and have a Father around, you are one blessed person, and I envy you. My blessed Mother raised us on a widows pension, then as we got older we went to work, delivering papers, then jobs with more responsibility.

Maybe this kid will make it, God only knows.

Have a blessed day,

Leon

[Outer Rondacker]

Its my fault at this point for having tossed his texting number in the fireplace. I think what got under my skin the most is that..... I can help here! I want to help here! Now its unfinished business and that is just not how I like things. I am tracking him down. My buddy is going to look in the books today and pull his name for me. Its a start. I need to resolve this. I am not going to be able to live with myself if I hear a story of this young man getting hurt at a range or in the back yard.

Yes I know not all youngsters are bad or need a spanking.

[OS OK]

Its my fault at this point for having tossed his texting number in the fireplace. I think what got under my skin the most is that..... I can help here! I want to help here! Now its unfinished business and that is just not how I like things. I am tracking him down. My buddy is going to look in the books today and pull his name for me. Its a start. I need to resolve this. I am not going to be able to live with myself if I hear a story of this young man getting hurt at a range or in the back yard.

Yes I know not all youngsters are bad or need a spanking.

"ATTABOY!"​…But don't forget that just one 'aw-spit' erases two 'attaboys'!...:bigsmyl2:

"Bully for you!…OS OK"

[theleo]

So, what's the age limit to be considered part of the younger generation? You old curmudgeons sound like you could really use a hug. :razz:

[s1120]

Nice to reach back out.. Everyone miss steps in life once in a wile, and maybe this was his for whatever reason. Im a farly new reloader, but have studied for many years. I have not cast bullet 1 yet.... but also have much studying under my belt. Frankly this guys first step need to be the dreaded "read the manual!" and after that, he needs to be taught good reloading practice's BEFORE he casts his next bullet. Sounds like hes lucky the bullets were not useable. Once he gets the reloading concepts down with known good bullets, then he should start the work to understand casting.

[dudel]

Nice to reach back out.. Everyone miss steps in life once in a wile, and maybe this was his for whatever reason. Im a farly new reloader, but have studied for many years. I have not cast bullet 1 yet.... but also have much studying under my belt. Frankly this guys first step need to be the dreaded "read the manual!" and after that, he needs to be taught good reloading practice's BEFORE he casts his next bullet. Sounds like hes lucky the bullets were not useable. Once he gets the reloading concepts down with known good bullets, then he should start the work to understand casting.

Wise words. Loading and casting can be a lifelong hobby. No need to get it all done in a day.

[OS OK]

So, what's the age limit to be considered part of the younger generation? You old curmudgeons sound like you could really use a hug. :razz:

There in is the magic of all this and life in general…"You act the age and exhibit the wisdom that you are accepted among...and become a peer in group…it's about 'earning respect', not having it handed to you because you can walk upright."
"Old Curmudgeons Uniderbity of Hard Knocks…Old School"

And…we don't need 'belly rubs' and 'group hugs & high 5's'…We have done quite nicely all these years without them…some of the names they call us is…"Men".

[Outer Rondacker]

Dont attaboy me yet. So a few phone calls and this is where we stand.

Dewan is not in the military. He has joined the air force and will be shipping out to basic in Texas. He manned up and told me the what was going on. I told him how I felt and he understood.

It would seem wal*mart was all out of 9mm and the local gun shop wanted to much money for 9mm. The man behind the counter told him to just buy that used mold and few bricks of lead and make his own. He used a torch and melted the lead into the mold. Took the bullets to his girlfriends fathers one night and attempted to load them up. He having lots of reloading stuff. Frustrated and the fact that he did not get along with his father in law to be Dewan headed back to the shop he bought the gun at. He just wants to shoot some before he goes off he claims. SO heaven help me this is what I came up with.

I am going to give him a few factory boxes of ammo and take the few lead bars and this mold from him. He is going to shoot and only buy ammo from a store until he has the time to learn about reloading and perhaps bullet making.

I would love for you Dewan if you ever make it to this site to look back and read this a few weeks after you finish basic training.


This left me with so many questions its not funny. I am not going to ask him but I wonder.

Where did he get brass if he could not buy any bullets?
Just use his father in laws reloading stuff without him knowing? Wife to be let him?
Can afford a gun but not ammo?
Got the military discount based off his word but has yet to go to basic.

Texas he is your problem now. (in the back of my mind I think their is hope for him if he completes basic and sticks with it)

I do not care if I did or did not do the correct thing here. I feel better that he is not going to hurt himself or others.

Men do not hug! See this is what I am talking about. Youngsters and there hippy stuff. LOL just making a joke. I really am not that old in years. But I have lived two lifetimes and god willing hopefully a few more.

[s1120]

I do not care if I did or did not do the correct thing here. I feel better that he is not going to hurt himself or others.

And you got him pointed in the right direction... Might follow it, might not, but at least you pointed him to the right fork in the road. Some times its not what you know.... but knowing who to listen to, and who not.. Sometimes we learn that in our teens, some times a little later.

[runfiverun]

okay I have thought about this just a little bit.

I think I would take the guy shooting, seriously.
this takes the whole casting/time thing out of the equation and gives you both a little chance of making a connection.
if you can show him HOW boolits are supposed to look and shoot on the range as well as be able to actually gauge his personality a little

[OS OK]

Outer Rondacker…"You get the 'attaboy' anyway just for your effort and rethinking and following through for a complete stranger! You just gave a boy the 'benefit of the doubt'…that is a rare trait anymore. Wise ole' Men have never lost it…Seems to me you are of that group!"

Don't you think that our young men & women should be required to do 'Boot Camp' after High School graduation or dropout…they would then have the choice to continue or return to College in the fall…'Boot in the Marine Corps' turned a wisebutted young punks life around…that punk was me!

OS OK

[dverna]

So, what's the age limit to be considered part of the younger generation? You old curmudgeons sound like you could really use a hug. :razz:

It sure is strange how we old pharts got things done. Imagine this. I started over 40 years ago. Came from a non shooting family. Actually had to read books to learn how to shoot, reload and cast.

A lot of you are making excuses for the guy. Maybe because he is military.

Maybe he is just lazy? There is tons of information on the internet if he cannot afford books. But heck, that takes time. Or maybe he is not too bright and does not know Google exists?

I am am one of those people who does not suffer fools gladly. Being an old curmudgeon has its benefits. I do not lose sleep over not helping people who are unwilling to help themselves.

I even ignore the bi-weekly threads about, "My 9mm is leading. please help". Etc etc. After a few years you younger guys will find it gets old too.

[OS OK]

dverna..."That doesn't make you a 'pessimist'…just an 'experienced optimist'!...:bigsmyl2:"

[Outer Rondacker]

Don't you think that our young men & women should be required to do 'Boot Camp' after High School graduation or dropout…

OS OK

I am without words to describe how much I agree with you on this. Yes. Israeli Defense Forces (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Defense_Forces) is mandatory for all Israeli citizens who have turned 18 to serve for (men)30 months (woman)18 months.

[theleo]

I generally don't act the age of my generation. I pull off cranky old guy pretty well most of the time for the ripe old age of 29. The older crowd generally has a wealth of knowledge if us young guys would just shut up and listen. Now this whole age begets knowledge and respect is a crock. If you fellows want to complain about how the world is today look to your generation to blame just as much as mine.

Most people my age are in a rush to get everything and anything done these days, if instant gratification isn't possible we don't usually bother. The gap between young guys rushing every where and the old guys willing to teach us to slow down and enjoy life is a big one. Some time my generation requires the help from those of the previous generation to help pull our heads out of our sphincters and slow things down. There's no reason to get mad at some kid for them giving you their number and asking you to send them a text, most don't know any better. If you don't want some kid doing that, it helps them to educate them why. It's better to tell some one, "I'll help you out but your on my time. If you want to learn I'll teach you but you need to set aside the time for it. I'm not going to jump through a bunch of hoops to just be helpful for you. I have things I can do instead of waiting on you."


As to the hug comment, I'm not really interested giving out any hugs, but I've never learned a better comment for stirring the pot with old guys. Where did I get the habit of stirring the pot? From guys in there 70's who are always messing with each other.


Sincerely, young punk kid. [smilie=s:

[OS OK]

theleo…
"Excellent comments and observations there…just one thing you may have overlooked…'Old Farts' don't have 'wisdom' just because they are 'Old Farts'…they have 'knowledge' that has been 'properly applied', that, is 'wisdom'…just basic knowledge can put you in a 'tailspin'.
I know many 'Old Farts' that don't have the sense to 'pour pee out of a boot with the instructions on the heel'!
And…'stirring the pot'…that comes from 'Old School' attitudes and ways, sometimes it is meant to get someone to 'stop and think' sometimes it is meant to 'start a fight'…or anything in between. There can't be another group of fellas that enjoy 'practical jokes & razzing fellas' than the 'Old Farts Gang'…we have had that pulled on us all our lives…besides…It's great fun!…If you can't laugh at yourself among peers…well, you have another problem all together!

It sounds to me like you don't have any problems 'hanging' anywhere you want…that is being 'observant & listening' and using your 'reasoning skills' before you 'close your ears' and 'open your pie-hole'…you have a handle on it Kid!"

I'm glad to make your acquaintance…OS OK

[dudel]

dverna..."That doesn't make you a 'pessimist'…just an 'experienced optimist'!...:bigsmyl2:"

That's what I used to call an old friend who had been married 7 (SEVEN) times. An experienced optimist!

Now get off my lawn!

[6622729]

I feel your pain. Hopefully not all of the younger generation are in that much of a hurry. I like to hope that there are a few good ones out there who still want to learn. Every once in a while you can still find one who's worth teaching.

See it every day with even simple tasks like repairs, construction, and especially maintenance and working on vehicles. Most of the new generation simply buys everything new. It's all considered disposable to them. When something breaks they just replace it. Consequently, they never learn how to fix, repair, or maintain things. Most won't bother taking the time to learn to hand load or cast, as it's easier (faster) for them to just buy pre made ammunition.

Apparently I grew up in a different time, and was taught by depression era folks how to make things last. Often brand new replacements were not an option, so you had to learn to make do with what you have. If it broke, you fixed it or learned how, or else you did without.

My worry is that when the oldest greatest generation is gone, there will be very few knowledgeable folks left to teach the myriad lessons that we learned.

If I can find someone who really wants to learn how to cast and reload, I will do my best to teach them everything that I know. Much of this stuff can not be rushed, or absorbed from a 15 minute lesson, or you tube video. I actually like to read paper books and magazines, yet this old tried and tested learning method is now considered old fashioned, and frowned upon by the right now generation.

Sadly most of what we know and do here, is a very esoteric skill set. I can count the number of experienced bullet casters, and re-loaders that I know in person with one hand.




- Bullwolf

I'm not sure where the age cutoff is but I have no tolerance for the instant gratification young people. They've used it all up with me. They've tried to kill me while driving and texting, they want everything free and they want it NOW. They'd fall in a manhole if the cover was off because they can't be bothered to look up from their devices. No way does this guy need to be involved in casting at this time. Perhaps after some life changes. For now the best advice anyone can give him is to slow down and revist casting when he has the time to really learn and be safe.

Since he needs to learn this on his terms, perhaps he can spend some time on Youtube then come here and ask some questions? That's how I learned reloading and then casting. You have to throw out the ridiculous advice and opinions at both ends but when I digested it all, I had information I could use. I have learned and am enjoying success in building AR platform rifles, casting and reloading. I've even gone on to converting brass and machining 80% lowers for my builds. All of my knowledge has come from Youtube and these forums.

[fredj338]

In our current world of instant gratification, entitlement mindset, what would you expect? Why so many under 30 love Bernie Sanders. They have been raised thru the school system by liberal minded teachers, trophies for participation, degrees in useless majors, it goes on & on. I don't have a lot of hope for us going into the next 50yrs, but then I won't be around for it.

[Ole Joe Clarke]

That's what I used to call an old friend who had been married 7 (SEVEN) times. An experienced optimist!

Now get off my lawn!

I don't think your friend qualifies as a marriage counselor. :-)

[theleo]

I don't think your friend qualifies as a marriage counselor. :-)
He's more qualified than most people I know. Most I know have only been in one or two, or at most three. That guy has been in twice as many as those people. I bet he could teach couples all the things not to do!

[Walter Laich]

Does this sound familiar?

[T]he typical [party member] was a conservative in his economic and political views. He disdained, to be sure, the most unscrupulous of the new men of wealth, as he did the opportunistic, boodling, tariff-mongering politicians who served them. But the most serious abuses of the unfolding economic order of the [era] he either resolutely ignored or accepted complacently as an inevitable result of the struggle for existence or the improvidence and laziness of the masses. http://www.frumforum.com/tag/1880s/

from the 1870s and 1880s

Seems not too much has changed.

[Blackwater]

What a great thread! Illustrations of so many things that affect us in life and in our efforts to bring some of the young into the fold. FWIW, I've dealt with similar situations before, and have come to take them with a good bit of humor. Usually, I'll just try to redefine the situation so they can better realize what it is they're doing and asking. Something like, "Let me get this straight, you come to my house and say you want help, but don't have time to listen to the answer?" This usually gets them a bit sheepish, and then we can communicate a lot better. If they continue with excuses about how busy they are, I usually smile now, and say, "Well, come back when you have time to listen and hear, and I'll be glad to help you. What you're asking for right now, I just can't give you because it's impossible, but you didn't know that when you came, so come back when you've got a little time, and that will mean I won't be wasting mine." If that doesn't work, I generally get rather "pointed," and if that doesn't work either, I just tell them to get out. I've only had to do that once. But I have to admit it was kind'a satisfying. Sometimes when you get older and start to get crotchety, it's good to "let the dogs loose" when nothing else seems to work. Besides, that kind of reputation keeps those who'll waste your time away, and that's not a bad thing, really.

OS OK's post was a real jewel, and OR did great. Everybody today seems to think we've GOT to get things right on first contact, but hardly nobody really does. What matters is whether we persist and are open to change, and for that, OR gets my kudos. Ya' done good.

[ArrowJ]

Everybody today seems to think we've GOT to get things right on first contact, but hardly nobody really does.

Agreed!

[aephilli822]

....
Now get off my lawn!

163894

When Garand speaks, people listen.

[Geezer in NH]

Well I like most on this forum like to give back to the community of casters. So it goes without saying when the phone rings and the local gun shop ask you to talk to a new bullet caster you say sure. Shop owner gives my address and I let him swing over. He has a small box with him and as we enter my reloading room I tell him to take a seat, he tells me it wont take long. Ok youngster what can I do for you. He hands me some 357 mag projectiles. Take a look. 163827 So he starts to tell me that he is having issues getting them in the cases. I ask are you loading them like this. Yes how else would you reload them. Then he tells me he is in a rush, tells me to write down his number and text him the answer why they wont work in his gun. I walk him out and ask what gun he has. Glock 26 (9mm). He left the hand full of bullets. I tossed his number in the can then took it back out again and tossed it into the fireplace. I do not text. If you dont have the time then ugggggg. What is wrong with the younger generation? Do they not know how to read? I dropped one on a scale. Looks a lot like a 158 lee mold to me and I was correct. They feel soft. Have all sorts of wrinkles. Hollow bases. I was able to pull one apart with my finger nails. The two on the right are not even full bullets. I called my friend the shop owner and left him a message to call me back when he gets back in from dinner.

I told him to join here and I hope he does. I know I know but I hope he finds this thread.

How many things can you find wrong with his short visit and product presented?

I read this as a Fudd in NY complaining about a new younger shooter.

Yes we are lost.

[wv109323]

I didn't read all the posts,just the first page. I would level with the guy and tell him that his cast bullets were terrible and that he needed a lot of instruction in order to learn the hobby of casting and reloading. I would ask if he had time to observe the process or interested in learning minus the cell phone.
If he is interested then the stage is set for him to learn. If not he will be on his own to learn or blow himself up whichever comes first.
You could always be a smarty and tell him to Google bullet casting.

[725]

At 22 he is no longer a youngster. Rude people get one bite out of the apple and then, thereafter, they get some plain speaking from me. We all know what he needs to hear and it isn't all about reloading or casting either.

[Iowa Fox]

How about the old guys that act like this? Its the ones over 60 that really put me up the tree.

[Petro58]

I'm fairly new to the Casting myself, but been Reloading for 40+yrs. It's SHOCKING to me the people I see on Facebook and other Forums talk about the way they reload. I'd say 85-90% have No F-ing Clue what or why their loading. They just want you to give them a Load, so they can CRANK them out as fast as Possible. They have No clue what Load Development is, or building a Ladder etc.. Most I would not want to be anywhere around them Loading or Shooting what they Load. And personally I wouldn't want them over to even try to show them, because it just seems If they can't learn it online or get a quick answer off their Smart Phone their Lost and just don't care.

[starmac]

If some guy that I have never met wants some help, comes over at my invitation hands me his duds and tells me he doesn't have time, but to figure it out and let him know, he will be told something he will not like, and will not be coming back period. This is not an old folks thing, I would have done the same at 19 up to and including now. And no military, no dad or no other reason is an excuse to act like that.

Personally I would have probably ask my friend at the lgs to refrain from sending his problem children my way too.

[Outer Rondacker]

How about the old guys that act like this? Its the ones over 60 that really put me up the tree.
I have had my share of older people act this way as well. Most of the time its money that makes them act this way. I charge more for attitude when giving them a quote.

In a speedy rush Dewan showed up mold in hand. The mold he had bought at the other shop was mine from many years ago. Or I think it was anyway. It had cast me many 357 bullets and I moved from a lee to a lyman so I sold it to a guy to help get him into casting. Two boxes of perfecta and we had a deal. (18 bucks worth) No lead bars. He cant remember what he did with them and as soon as I could hand him the ammo poof he was off. Never made it past the front door. I was told over a drink last night by the local sand pit owner somebody was doing some fast shooting over his pit. Should be 100 or so rounds from the sound of things. Now you know I have to stop in and take a look see if perfecta brass is sprayed all over the ground.

As far as my friend who owns the shop I am sure he will not be sending just anyone my way any time soon. Ill even go as far to say coffee is on him at the next gun show.

[s1120]

I have had my share of older people act this way as well. Most of the time its money that makes them act this way. I charge more for attitude when giving them a quote.

In a speedy rush Dewan showed up mold in hand. The mold he had bought at the other shop was mine from many years ago. Or I think it was anyway. It had cast me many 357 bullets and I moved from a lee to a lyman so I sold it to a guy to help get him into casting. Two boxes of perfecta and we had a deal. (18 bucks worth) No lead bars. He cant remember what he did with them and as soon as I could hand him the ammo poof he was off. Never made it past the front door. I was told over a drink last night by the local sand pit owner somebody was doing some fast shooting over his pit. Should be 100 or so rounds from the sound of things. Now you know I have to stop in and take a look see if perfecta brass is sprayed all over the ground.

As far as my friend who owns the shop I am sure he will not be sending just anyone my way any time soon. Ill even go as far to say coffee is on him at the next gun show.


Well... "you can lead a horse to water...." and all that.... Some people are just... well we all know. Maybe he at least got a little bug in his ear, that hes not going to do more reloading before he learns some stuff... If not for him, for a wife, and kid that doesn't want their dad blown up. All you can do is try, and you went over and above.

[mdi]

Unfortunately all you have to do to see an awful lot of the "instant gratification" types is look in on a few reloading/casting forums. many won't/can't use a "search" function, or are in too much of a hurry to "google" anything. I've seen posts asking a question that was thoroughly covered just three threads below the question...

[Gtek]

Yep, have came to understand how short life really is and seems to be accelerating daily. I choose to spend mine with those that I love and care for and the ones that show true interest. I would not waste another second on him and he would need to come to me in a new light, call me what you may!

[OS OK]

Yep, call me what you may!

"Experienced Optimist?"

[Blackwater]

Even Babe Ruth didn't bat 1,000, OR. You did your due diligence, and that's all you control. It's a shame when these things happen, but not one of us here can prevent them. Ya' done good. That's what counts.

[CraigOK]

Sounds like a lot of folks I know, if it takes more than 15 minutes to master, they don't have time for it. He's never cracked the cover on a reloading manual. I hope doesn't get hurt or hurt someone else.

I concur, the guy doesnt seem to understand the end game or the steps required to accomplish it. He needs to read a reloading manual. I dont think Id be willing to work with him until he did.

[dolfinwriter]

Some just simply are not cut out for the intricacies casting/reloading present. In other words, the young man just doesn't have the personality traits required to do this safely, correctly or reasonably. It ain't for him.

I would first start out with "Look. If you want my help, then we are going to have some ground rules." And go from there.

Have you seen the movie Prince of Tides? This is back in the late 80s, but Nick Nolte as football coach Tom Wingo takes on personally training the son of his sister's psychotherapist. The kid is spoiled rotten, snotty, mouthy, arrogant... very much like his father who is a symphony orchestra violinist and tries to humiliate the coach in front of a bunch of his equally snooty friends.

Bottom line, is Tom walks away from the kid and says no way. Later the mother brings him back and he apologizes and says he really does want to learn how to play football. So Tom lays down the rule "Keep your mouth shut, because it pisses me off. You do exactly as I say or we are done", and so on.

That's how I'd handle this.

I agree with .455 Webley:

Thank you for even trying to help this young man. If someone doesn't show him how to do this right he may get himself hurt.

[Wardo1974]

At least this kid at 22 was trying to cast some boolits. He had the patience to find some lead, molds, equipment, but did it wrong.

It seems to me that the OP got his back up at his PERCEPTION of the kid's attitude and things went downhill from there. But. Maybe the kid sensed hostility and just wanted to get out? Maybe he got a text from his wife that the baby was sick or something? I was recently going to meet up with a guy for a gun repair, and he's known as your typical "get off my lawn, know-it-all-old-man" kind of guys. While in the guy's driveway, I got a message from my wife that my kid was barfing all over the living room and wanted me to get home. So I went into the guy's place, and I was in a hurry to pay for my work done and bug out. I could tell he was annoyed that I just wanted to leave, so maybe he's thinking, "oh, these young guys are all in a hurry, got no patience, blah, blah." So the next time I saw him, I could tell he had his back up already from my last visit, all because I was distracted from an upset wife and didn't have time to talk about gun stuff from the last time.

All this to say there's two sides to any story and nobody should be quick to judge. Especially since nobody was there but the OP and a young man who's decided to serve your country as part of its military community, and at a time when many others are just drinking beer, managed to try his hand casting some boolits.

[Outer Rondacker]

Thanks for the kinds words guys.

Wardo1974. Your words are it seems to me.... Well It seems to me you only read the first post and then started typing. We have no cell service for many miles around. I see you can type well so you should also be well spoken. With this said, why did you not take 15 seconds to tell the man who was helping you something like this. Sorry, my wife just text me and we have a sick child. How much do I owe and thank you very much I have to go. The man now would understand your dismay and would be thankful of your common courtesy. Heck I do not think I could get my wallet out and open in the time that would take to say.
Dewan does not want to cast boolits. He just wants to shoot and shoot he did. He even left the boxes on the ground at the sandpit.164025 Just ask me how I know. I should of taken a pic of the bud light beer cans all shot up. Brass and boxes found ten feet from the no trespassing sign. Cans another 20 feet away or so. This pit does not allow shooting as it is an active mining area for the county.

Where you not in a rush to start typing and skip reading all the details on this thread I think you might have responded a bit different. Now you are not all wrong stuff does happen and this is only one side of the story.

This was never meant to get anyone heated just sharing a story. Its done and hopefully over.

[Wardo1974]

Rondacker: Sorry if I came off heated, I'm not. All I meant was that there can often be two sides to a story. Your photos and more background context of shooting disrespect do make things more clear about what this fellow was like, though.

Of course I told my "local old man" (just a joke there, I'm no kid myself) my reasons for leaving, but...for some guys, it's not enough, you know? Certain guys, they've just made up their minds to be crotchety about things. Not saying you are.

I accept your version of events as the truth. It's always disappointing when you want to share your hard-won knowledge with a person and they don't give a hoot about anything but the end result.

[dolfinwriter]

Thanks for the kinds words guys.

He just wants to shoot and shoot he did. He even left the boxes on the ground at the sandpit. Just ask me how I know. I should of taken a pic of the bud light beer cans all shot up. Brass and boxes found ten feet from the no trespassing sign. Cans another 20 feet away or so. This pit does not allow shooting as it is an active mining area for the county.

Its done and hopefully over.

Outer Rondacker, sorry you had this happen. I think I can sense that you really wanted to help this kid, and the little snot has no respect.

Hopefully the military will teach him some respect.

Then again, the military ain't what it used to be either. The Navy ain't the same Navy I retired from 16 years ago, and I see things we would never have considered possible in my day. I saw a sign the other day telling people what to do about male on male sexual assault. Who didn't see that coming?

Some signs from my day:
In the missile compartment head on a submarine: "We aim to please. You aim too, please".
Above a coffee mess "Your mother doesn't work here. Clean up after yourself".

And we would self-police, calling out someone who made a mess and walked away, expecting someone else to clean it up.

Somebody needs to call this kid out and tell him never to leave a mess like that again, ANYWHERE. It's things like that which give the anti's excuse to shut down anyplace that's left to go shooting.

There is a gravel pit a good 100 miles from where I live where we go shooting on occasion. I always pick up all the trash I can while we are there, all the brass, steel and aluminum cases, and shotshell hulls. We're started digging the hills for scrap lead as well. And I tell the whole family, "See those road signs that somebody shot full of holes? It's things like that which will cause the anti-gun people to shut this place down so that we can't use it anymore. Don't ever do stuff like that. Always leave this place better than you found it".

[Blackwater]

Maybe the guy will learn some discipline and presence of mind from boot camp?

[dolfinwriter]

Maybe the guy will learn some discipline and presence of mind from boot camp?

From AIR FORCE boot camp? ; ) (No offense to any airmen present, but especially any PJs. PJs are just pure ******!)

[Tackleberry41]

Boot camp does not fix all things, may have at one time. I knew plenty of people in the marines back in the late 80s that still thought they were back on the block hanging out with their buds. It swung both ways, white and black, tho less of an issue with whites. Some you wondered why they were even there. And it is the air force not to say AF sucks, just that there really isnt much to boot camp. I was stationed in San Antonio for a while and we could pick up AF recruits at the club on base, I only remember one day off on Parris Island and it was a few days before we left.

And unfortunately the younger generation has very little interest in learning anything. They want it now, any more effort than that and they will move onto other things. To them text is the best thing thats ever happened, when in reality its the worst form of communication on earth. Yea it has its uses, send a pic to someone, or a few back and forth to ask a question, or directions. But way to many have shifted into that is their main form of interacting with the people. They have that phone glued to their hand, and get upset when you do not answer in a timely manner, which to them is instantly. And auto spell has screwed over plenty of people.

But as pointed out there are 2 sides to every story. I am in the middle at 45, not the older generation, not the younger one. And I do meet way to many 'get off my yard you kids, I know everything' people. They hang out in gun shops and will argue with you all day that there is in fact only one way to skin a cat, their way of course. Anything else, well is just wrong, and should be against the law. They hang out in the gym I go to, Im usually the youngest, doing weird stuff on the equipment. If you say something like 'thats not the way to do it' they look at you with the 'how could you possibly know anything' glare. So I just mind my own business and let them hurt themselves, dang does that sound familiar.

[Possum Lickaa]

Thanks for the kinds words guys.

Wardo1974. Your words are it seems to me.... Well It seems to me you only read the first post and then started typing. We have no cell service for many miles around. I see you can type well so you should also be well spoken. With this said, why did you not take 15 seconds to tell the man who was helping you something like this. Sorry, my wife just text me and we have a sick child. How much do I owe and thank you very much I have to go. The man now would understand your dismay and would be thankful of your common courtesy. Heck I do not think I could get my wallet out and open in the time that would take to say.
Dewan does not want to cast boolits. He just wants to shoot and shoot he did. He even left the boxes on the ground at the sandpit.164025 Just ask me how I know. I should of taken a pic of the bud light beer cans all shot up. Brass and boxes found ten feet from the no trespassing sign. Cans another 20 feet away or so. This pit does not allow shooting as it is an active mining area for the county.

Where you not in a rush to start typing and skip reading all the details on this thread I think you might have responded a bit different. Now you are not all wrong stuff does happen and this is only one side of the story.

This was never meant to get anyone heated just sharing a story. Its done and hopefully over.

Well, you got some brass back, and your two cases. That may be all you can expect from a situation like this. I think it's great that all of the responders to this post have taken the time to put in their two cents, on both sides. It says that even if we don't necessarily agree with each other, we are passionate about our sport, and are genuinely concerned about bringing up another generation to carry it on. If you ask me (which, of course, no one did :-P), that in itself is pretty good stuff.

[oley55]

From AIR FORCE boot camp?

that's what I was thinking, but I stiffled myself (at least for a while).

[Eddie789]

I was taught at an early age to respect guns, respect the land where we hunt, fish and shoot. As someone stated above, "leave it better than it was before you got there." My dad always went by that rule! I am 26 now and speak for the younger generation. We all are not lost hopes..... I wish i had someone close to me to teach me the ropes. I am learning casting alone, Its surely is a learning curve. I still have a lot to learn, but with my willingness to learn, will go above and beyond!

[runfiverun]

From AIR FORCE boot camp? ; ) (No offense to any airmen present, but especially any PJs. PJs are just pure ******!)


AHEM!!! :lol:
they install that during the water training portion of PJ school.
i'm not sure if it's when your running into the water or out.
but it seems to happen about that time and you can see right there who has it [who you'd wanna work with] and who doesn't.

[osteodoc08]

Interesting thread. I do enjoy reading everyones viewpoints on the original thread topic.

I was fortunate enough to find me a patient, kind and thoughtful mentor after my father passed in which to learn the craft. I had a much more attentive nature than the young gentleman here showed on his initial visit, however. I'm still earning from him and need to pay him a visit soon.

He is a member here, 45cal. A public thank you to him.

[Half Dog]

Maybe you can get a good deal on a Glock.

[dudel]

OR, I think you have a point. Found these 45ACP at the range yesterday among the brass. No primer strikes visible. The bullets were so loose in the case, they could be squeezed with light finger pressure. It's as if the cases were never sized. Someone needs to slow down and read a reloading book or get some instruction. I broke them down for components. There was an average 6gr charge of Blue Dot in the case. Just shaking my head.

164349

[flyingmonkey35]

Looks like he broke a cardnel rule for all military members. Read the directions and do your homework.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Disheartening but not surprised to see... Todays youth..... I don't get it.

Glad to see he kinda came round and good on you for taking the high road though his real colors bled through in the end. You are a good dude for trying! Sour ending sucks still. No respect.

I have tried to help much younger guys than myself with mixed results. Some have done well and listened and others, well must be cut from the same log as your young feller was.

One of my jobs, working for Bombardier Aerospace, we have a lot of employees and pretty much everyone on the floor and some of the office people know I am a gun nut, reloader, caster, etc. I've had more and more guys asking about reloading & casting and right now, helping get a couple guys sorted out and started. They are all about my age or older and they are all ears, sponging it up, writing it down and asking lots of questions. Quite the polar experience from the majority of younger people i've helped. I enjoy teaching people that are willing to learn, it's actually fun for me! It also takes being willing to admit when you don't know something and trying to help us both find out. I refer everyone i've helped to come join Cast Boolits or at least do some reading as this is for me, hands down, no contest the best group of knowledgeable folks to learn from and I have learned a lot here. I consider myself a perpetual student and that is great because I love learning new stuff. There is always things we don't want to do or things that take too long but this push for instant gratification by the young crowd is just insane to me.

[Mytmousemalibu]

OR, I think you have a point. Found these 45ACP at the range yesterday among the brass. No primer strikes visible. The bullets were so loose in the case, they could be squeezed with light finger pressure. It's as if the cases were never sized. Someone needs to slow down and read a reloading book or get some instruction. I broke them down for components. There was an average 6gr charge of Blue Dot in the case. Just shaking my head.



164349

This is why i'm not fond of public ranges. Some people are dangerously stupid and/or ignorant. Luckily I have a private range at my disposal, I don't need to worry about Jr sitting down next to me to test his .308 "handloads" with a full case of titegroup because all smokeless is the same right?

I bet those .45's would be a little warm with 6gr. of Blue Dot and the bullet shoved in on the charge like that! Maybe like when the bullet hits the feed ramp? :killingpc

[Outer Rondacker]

OR, I think you have a point. Found these 45ACP at the range yesterday among the brass. No primer strikes visible. The bullets were so loose in the case, they could be squeezed with light finger pressure. It's as if the cases were never sized. Someone needs to slow down and read a reloading book or get some instruction. I broke them down for components. There was an average 6gr charge of Blue Dot in the case. Just shaking my head.

164349 Nice. Just wondering what brand case are these?

I have a friend who shoots with me at my range. He wants to get into reloading. I told him to buy consumables and bring them here to learn on my stuff before buying his own. As he walked out he door I handed him a reloading book (Lee) and said read it. He is a member here I had him join last week. Not sure if he has posted yet. Say Hi cannonballs45

[flint45]

No one thease day has the time to do anything right! Try doing tile work for people they want it done right now and perfect no concept of the time involved just as in this case the young man had no time to do it right has to look for someone else to fix it he needs to start reading wow what a concept.

[dudel]

Nice. Just wondering what brand case are these?

They were a mixed set of brass (which didn't help his problem). Two R-P and one each of two others that I normally toss. Dirty primer pockets to boot. (the horror!)

Mighty - The range I shoot at has 20' wide and 75' deep bays. You get a bay, and there is a 10' high dirt berm on each side with a 20' high berm for a backstop. No one is using the bay but you (and whoever you brought). You can set up on the bench or practice shooting and moving (try that indoors!). The only saving grace on these loads, was the bullet was soooooo loose, that I doubt the pressure spike was that bad.

It's things like this that worry me at indoor ranges. The one I use in Atlanta has bullet proof glass dividers between the lanes. Came in one afternoon, and the glass has been shot. An AD by someone with no range discipline. They booted her, and charged her $3000 for the glass. And yes, they do make you watch a 20 minute range safety video the first time you shoot there. Yes, there was a RO present; but there are 15 lanes to monitor. Things can happen very quickly. And people wonder why I take a trauma kit to the range. Had a private range in the back yard in Ga. I do miss it. Setting one up here soon.

[toallmy]

Mr Outer Rondacker I am sorry the young fellow disappointed you . I go through a lot of young men at work , and it seems like the harder you try , and care , the more you are disappointed . But I believe that is the nature of the youth . You can only learn from the mistakes you make , and the really big ones you remember well . Don't give up on the young generation gentlemen those old timers did not give up on us . I am 50 and I was hard headed in my youth . I may still be .

[s1120]

Mr Outer Rondacker I am sorry the young fellow disappointed you . I go through a lot of young men at work , and it seems like the harder you try , and care , the more you are disappointed . But I believe that is the nature of the youth . You can only learn from the mistakes you make , and the really big ones you remember well . Don't give up on the young generation gentlemen those old timers did not give up on us . I am 50 and I was hard headed in my youth . I may still be .

Ya I tell you I brushed off a lot of great advice when I was a kid also!!! Sometimes it just takes time to learn that you don't know it all. Also 50 myself... Now I KNOW I don't know it all, and always more then happy to learn anything!!

[aephilli822]

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

The more you learn, the more you know you still have a lot to learn.

[David2011]

So, what's the age limit to be considered part of the younger generation? You old curmudgeons sound like you could really use a hug. :razz:
It's not age, it's attitude. There is no age limit on behavior akin to that of the "younger generation" although in my professional work and opinion there is a sliding scale. The younger a person is, the less likely they are to put forth effort to achieve their wants. A new generation is born every day. There is no need to tolerate rude, bad behavior. Hugs from the offending party's generation do not make everything better. The 22 year old clearly has no interest in being respectful. He was rude to Outer Rondacker twice including the incident when OR went out of his way to mentor the man. He trespassed to shoot, disrespectful of the land owner. He disrespected the land leaving his shooting trash lying about. The demanding young man earned his contempt.

One of my closest friends is 40 years my junior. I am friends with his entire family- uncles, aunts, cousins, parents and siblings and feel fortunate to know them. The other day he said he learns something every time he comes to "grandpa's house" but I learn from him as well. He is a superb shooter and works tirelessly to be better. I have never seen him shoot a round of factor ammunition other than shotgun and rimfire and he owns a progressive Ponsness Warren 12 ga press and knows how to use it. When we met he was working hard to get good shots at 600 yards. He's at a mile now. He has many respectful, polite friends. Not everyone that is young is "one of those."

David

[dikman]

An interesting thread, with (some) interesting comments. It strikes me that this kid is a "user" - uses people to get what he wants. Anyhow, the whole thing is a little bizarre - won't buy bullets from the gun shop because they're too dear, but buys a mold and lead bricks (and presumably brass?). Goes to girlfriend's house to use father's reloading equipt, but gives up 'cos he can't reload them (implies father doesn't know about it, or he would surely help). Can't even remember what he did with the lead bricks(???) but happily takes the boxes of ammo in exchange for a very old Lee mold (and we all know what that would be worth). And finally, his actions shooting at the pit shows someone who has scant regard for people's property or, in fact, any thought for anyone but himself.

[varmint243]

Another old timers hating on the younger generation thread
Seems to happen about every six months or so on here
Me thinks the old timers have selective memory loss of what a PITA they were to the old timers when they were 20 somethings
It's a good thing old timers back then were more patient and understanding than the old timers today
I remember growing up listening to all the adults complaining how horrible it was going to be when the pot smoking, acid dropping hippies were going to be in charge of the world.
Now that time is here, and they aren't any different than the generation that they replaced.

A child arrived just the other day
He came to the world in the usual way
But there were planes to catch and bills to pay
He learned to walk while I was away
And he was talking before I knew it and as he grew
He said, "Im gonna be like you, Dad
You know Im gonna be like you"
And the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
When you comin' home, Dad, I dont know when
But we'll get together then
You know we'll have a good time then
My son turned ten just the other day
He said, "Thanks for the ball, Dad, come on let's play
Can you teach me to throw?" I said, "Not today
I got a lot to do", he said, "That's okay"
And he walked away but his smile never dimmed
And said, "Im gonna be like him, yeah
You know Im going to be like him"
And the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
When you comin' home, Dad, I don't know when
But we'll get together then
You know we'll have a good time then
Well, he came from college just the other day
So much like a man I just had to say
"Son, Im proud of you, can you sit for a while?"
He shook his head and he said with a smile
"What I'd really like, Dad, is to borrow the car keys
See you later, can I have them please?"
And the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
When you comin' home, son, I don't know when
But we'll get together then, Dad
You know we'll have a good time then
Ive long since retired, my son's moved away
I called him up just the other day
I said, "I'd like to see you if you dont mind"
He said, "I'd love to Dad, if I could find the time"
"You see my new job's a hassle and the kids have the flu
But it's sure nice talking to you, Dad
It's been sure nice talking to you"
And as I hung up the phone it had occurred to me
He'd grown up just like me
My boy was just like me
And the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
When you comin' home, son, I don't know when
But we'll get together then, Dad
We're gonna have a good time then

[Strtspdlx]

I feel your pain. Hopefully not all of the younger generation are in that much of a hurry. I like to hope that there are a few good ones out there who still want to learn. Every once in a while you can still find one who's worth teaching.

See it every day with even simple tasks like repairs, construction, and especially maintenance and working on vehicles. Most of the new generation simply buys everything new. It's all considered disposable to them. When something breaks they just replace it. Consequently, they never learn how to fix, repair, or maintain things. Most won't bother taking the time to learn to hand load or cast, as it's easier (faster) for them to just buy pre made ammunition.

Apparently I grew up in a different time, and was taught by depression era folks how to make things last. Often brand new replacements were not an option, so you had to learn to make do with what you have. If it broke, you fixed it or learned how, or else you did without.

My worry is that when the oldest greatest generation is gone, there will be very few knowledgeable folks left to teach the myriad lessons that we learned.

If I can find someone who really wants to learn how to cast and reload, I will do my best to teach them everything that I know. Much of this stuff can not be rushed, or absorbed from a 15 minute lesson, or you tube video. I actually like to read paper books and magazines, yet this old tried and tested learning method is now considered old fashioned, and frowned upon by the right now generation.

Sadly most of what we know and do here, is a very esoteric skill set. I can count the number of experienced bullet casters, and re-loaders that I know in person with one hand.




- Bullwolf

i agree. Being one of the newer generations I can say I'm all for instant gratification, it is pretty awesome. However; there's a time and place for everything. I knew going into reloading it was something I had to be patient with, something I knew I would mess up, and until just recently I knew it was something I would have to learn on my own. I went to local gun shops and all the local reloaders are not the brightest bulbs in the bunch. As for casting, I haven't found a loving bullet caster locally yet. I'm 28 and from my perspective there's a time and a place for instant gratification. Firearms and any associated entity with them is not up for grabs in the IG territory. Id give hIm a chance. It would be Ashame to leave all the wisdom in your head and later not have it passed on at all. I know I was a little ******* when I was younger. I still am honestly but I try to be respectful to all my elders,especially if they can teach me something. Key word is TRY. I'm not perfect nor am I a rocket scientist. But I do think given enough time I can fix ANYTHING.

[toallmy]

Strtspdlx post your ( almost location ) and possibly their may be someone in the area that can set down with you , you could offer to help with cleaning up a pot full of coww or just carry some heavy stuff in return for learning how to cast , or flux some material . Seams like a lot of kind helpful people hear , just tired of people who try to take advantage of their kindness . If you lived in my area I would invite you over , got to cook up some more lead pretty soon .hahaha .

[dikman]

Strtspdlx, I hope you find someone to guide you, at least you're trying to learn. Although I'm definitely classed as an "oldie" I'm more than happy to help/teach anyone anything that I know (and without trying to sound big-headed I do know a lot about all sorts of things - and I'm still learning!) but they have to want to learn. In this case it's obvious that the kid wasn't interested in learning, all he wanted was a way to get hold of some cheap ammo to shoot at something.

Varmint, this generation is different. This is the first generation that has had virtually instant communication with almost anyone, at any time. Information is available, anywhere and anytime, at the touch of a few buttons (unfortunately, not everyone can distinguish between valid and suspect data). As a consequence, people skills appear to be suffering. If you remove most kids from their cellphone they go into meltdown! How many of you have been to a restaurant/cafe and noticed a group of younger people, sitting around a table and fiddling with their phones? In my day we would have been talking to each other.

I'm not sure that the words from "The cat's in the cradle" have as much validity in this context of instant personal communication.

[David2011]

Oops- computer glitch, duplicate post.

[David2011]

Another old timers hating on the younger generation thread
Seems to happen about every six months or so on here
Me thinks the old timers have selective memory loss of what a PITA they were to the old timers when they were 20 somethings
It's a good thing old timers back then were more patient and understanding than the old timers today
I remember growing up listening to all the adults complaining how horrible it was going to be when the pot smoking, acid dropping hippies were going to be in charge of the world.
Now that time is here, and they aren't any different than the generation that they replaced.


I don't need the Muslim convert Yusuf Islam quoted to me and I beg to differ with your analysis. The young man in the OP was ill mannered and unwilling to put any effort into his goal, if it actually was his goal.

As a teenager and into my 20s when I wanted a model airplane I bought a kit, adhesives, abrasives, accessories and built it, installed the radio and flew it. When I wanted a street rod I bought a Model A sedan that someone had started converting in the '50s, redid everything and built a car that I could drive anywhere. When I wanted to learn to cast boolits a mentor took me under his wing. I hung on his every word and did my best to retain everything. We were best friends for the rest of is life. Even when there were video games I didn't play them. There were real things to do.

I have tried to teach several potential reloaders over the past few years. I have been told I am a good and patient teacher. Most don't want to learn; they just wanted to start putting powder into cartridges without any education. They are willing to experiment without knowing what they are doing. I'm still active in radio control. Hardly anyone is willing to invest the time to build their own aircraft these days. They want the airplane to come pre-assembled including the electronics and servos, read to fly straight out of the box and bemoan that they have to do some minor final assembly. In the '70s there were few professionally built street rods and the people that bought them were viewed with disdain by the rest of us. I was in my 20s at the time. Today I know a builder that gets $150,000 to $250,000 to build a street rod and his shop is busy. Having someone else build your rod for you is ordinary today. Let's not even start on the number of people that spend their time at a game console and get all of their "knowledge" from Google. The only place I've seen young people WORK at accomplishing something is in our Hunter Education program. Even with a five day lesson plan the kids really have to put effort into passing. Each and every one has my respect for the effort they put forth.

I teach a number of things at every opportunity but the student must be willing to invest some degree of effort and dedication. I really enjoy sharing what I have learned.

The old timers were right about when the pot smoking acid dropping hippies got in charge. Look at our government now!

David

[Blanket]

I have mentored more than a few. Latest one started doing yard work for us when he was 13. Taught him how to shoot, load, cast and a lot more stuff.He killed his first turkey 75 yards away from my back door about 4 years ago. Always respectful and responsible and given the cards he started with that says a lot. He is now at Dam Neck VA in the Marines

[kawasakifreak77]

I'm of the newer generation here (31) & I honestly feel most people my age & younger are pretty much a lost cause. They want $15 an hour to flip burgers & wouldn't know an oil dipstick if you swatted 'em with it!

I was raised pretty 'old school' I suppose. I didn't realize it until after I flew the coop however. Its shocking to me, to hear people my age have never cut wood with an axe, rebuilt an engine, hunted to feed yourself, etc.

My heart honestly aches, as to me, I see our finest generation going away & all the incredible information going with you guys.

I've pretty much made it my new life goal to absorb as much knowledge from my grandfathers as I possibly can so that one day, God willin' I meet a good woman I can pass old world knowledge & manners along to my boy.

I sure am not without fault. Patience is something I have always had serious troubles with. I'm also a bit of a loose cannon with a problem with authority. Past few years I have really tried to tone it down some, with at least some measurable success.

If you're an older gent who knows a young person that shows an incling to old world values, please be patient with our knuckleheadedness & show us how this once fine nation used to be. Thank you.

-Raymond

[s1120]

I'm of the newer generation here (31) & I honestly feel most people my age & younger are pretty much a lost cause. They want $15 an hour to flip burgers & wouldn't know an oil dipstick if you swatted 'em with it!

I was raised pretty 'old school' I suppose. I didn't realize it until after I flew the coop however. Its shocking to me, to hear people my age have never cut wood with an axe, rebuilt an engine, hunted to feed yourself, etc.

My heart honestly aches, as to me, I see our finest generation going away & all the incredible information going with you guys.

I've pretty much made it my new life goal to absorb as much knowledge from my grandfathers as I possibly can so that one day, God willin' I meet a good woman I can pass old world knowledge & manners along to my boy.

I sure am not without fault. Patience is something I have always had serious troubles with. I'm also a bit of a loose cannon with a problem with authority. Past few years I have really tried to tone it down some, with at least some measurable success.

If you're an older gent who knows a young person that shows an incling to old world values, please be patient with our knuckleheadedness & show us how this once fine nation used to be. Thank you.

-Raymond

Im older then you by 20 years...but still younger then most on here it seems.... I also try to learn all I can, about as much as I can. The more I can do the better off I am. If not by doing myself.... at least being more informed when I have to farm something out. I missed out asking the older gen much. Step father was a "just shut up and watch.." kinda guy... I learned a lot... but wish I learned more. I got a lot from my Dad. he was a avid shooter, caster, and loader. I did not get to spend as much time with him as I hoped, and then lost him a handfull of years ago. His help does live on, as I go through all his loading/casting stuff, and try to backwards engineer how, and why he did things..

[Electric88]

I'm another one of the new generation (27 here), and it truly is disheartening when I look at so many people my age. I've spent a lot of time lurking on here and learning what it takes to correctly and safely cast and load my own. Heck, I think I spent 6 months reading and rereading loading manuals (Lee's second edition) before I put together the press. No one around me (that I knew of at the time) to instruct me. But I knew that this was one thing I did NOT want to rush into.

Of course, I still find myself at times wanting to succumb to the instant gratification that is so prevalent in my generation. However if there is one thing I learned from my father (and it has been reinforced here), it was to take it slow and do it right the first time. Thanks to all on here who have helped contribute to my continuing education in the art of casting and loading!

[Outer Rondacker]

I do feel a Generalization was not the perfect way to address the age group. For those of you who stand out from the crowd you are welcome at my table any time. I get all warm and fuzzy inside knowing some will carry on the ways of the past.

I have keep an eye on this thread but stopped posting as to let it die down now that time has passed. I felt I had to say I think if you took the time to post in this thread for better or worse you are on a decent path. I do not have many more years on some of you. But act as if....

[prs]

I am only a whip snap at 61 years. When I was 21 what I did not know would fill a rail car, and what I thought I knew would fill another. I know a whole lot about a few things now and hardly anything about some others. I still learn things as I go along and maybe I am not a lost cause after all.

prs

[kmw1954]

I have people approach me all the time with the first thing they say is "you know what" and these day I find myself responding, "I know a lot of things but I don't know what".

I have worked in many different fields over the course of this life, have met people of all walks of life and cultures. Have learned for all of them. I have worked with and for people much younger than myself and have done well with them.

Having been working in the food industry as a production maintenance person I have seen many large changes in the way production is now being done with automation. Will say there is where I see the young people excelling. They have the education and understanding that I will never get to with this new technology. They have passed me by! I haven't given up on them yet.

[victorfox]

dear Lord... even my feeble attempts at casting a slug in homemade gypsum mold for my 32ga were better... Looks like the Brave New World mantra is working well...

like most said, many of the new gen don't want the "work" of making stuff, make it last etc. There's no frugality and ingenuity in their auto-correction keyboards...

[victorfox]

OR, I think you have a point. Found these 45ACP at the range yesterday among the brass. No primer strikes visible. The bullets were so loose in the case, they could be squeezed with light finger pressure. It's as if the cases were never sized. Someone needs to slow down and read a reloading book or get some instruction. I broke them down for components. There was an average 6gr charge of Blue Dot in the case. Just shaking my head.

164349

I find lots of .380 in the same manner... I usually pull the bullets and get the powder too.

[bazzer485]

It's nothing to do with age. I find that most people of any age to be rude and selfish. We live in a "Me" time, where all that matters is "Me".
How do I know? I've been a full time guide for over twenty years and met lots of people, few are polite and listen with their ears. Sign of the times I'm afraid.


Interests include Fly Fishing, Archery, Shooting and many more. British Military Veteran.

[paraord]

29 here, and like someone earlier said we are not all like that. I am the polar opposite of someone seeking instant gratification, or buy a new one instead of fix the old one. If anything I over research.
Additionally I'm a 1st generation small farmer venturing into my first large producton year( on top of my normal job).

But in general our generation has a love affair with new shiny things, glowing screens, and not getting hands dirty.

[barnabus]

I think I would have texted him "Come back when you have time to learn".

yea so would i!

[kmw1954]

I just believe that the idea of craftsmanship has been lost. In general, No one wants to take the time to build fine works of art and then take pride in that work. We've become a throw-away society.

[Lance Boyle]

An interesting thread. Sad and sweet and we knew it complete.

I'm in my mid 40's. I believe I was a young and polite person. People told me so or rather told my parents so. I went to the fish and game club and learned how to shoot skeet from the supporting old guys. They were all mostly helpful. Probably why I still like the game clubs and why I don't mind helping a new kid.

A good chunk of my friends are much older. Like 20 years older. I enjoy their company and the discussions on reloading, life, guns, girls, etc. I have a bunch of nephews and husbands of nieces. Some I would gladly hang out with and share what I know with, others who just want stuff done for them, and a couple I wouldn't trust leaving my wallet on the table with my back turned.

Some things are no different through the ages. There are some of those people in every generation. Some that won't listen and have to learn it on their own, some kids that didn't learn things on their own because they were reckless and broke their neck on a motorcycle or in a car wreck. Some of the mechanisms are different but people are still people.

As for hugs, I still want to hug my mom and dad. They're divorced and both have been remarried and each widowed. My dad only a months ago. He's lonely and frankly a touch scared living alone in another part of the country at 77. I wish he lived closer. I only have a few years left with them, I'll give them all the hugs I can. No shame here.

ETA- Sad that old Dewan didn't have enough time to even let a small pot of lead melt. Sounds like Dewan isn't a caster, he made a bad or wrong decision at the gun shop in an attempt to shoot cheap. Maybe he'll attempt it again when he slows down.

[Geezer in NH]

Another old timers hating on the younger generation thread
Seems to happen about every six months or so on here
Me thinks the old timers have selective memory loss of what a PITA they were to the old timers when they were 20 somethings
It's a good thing old timers back then were more patient and understanding than the old timers today
I remember growing up listening to all the adults complaining how horrible it was going to be when the pot smoking, acid dropping hippies were going to be in charge of the world.
Now that time is here, and they aren't any different than the generation that they replaced.

A child arrived just the other day
He came to the world in the usual way
But there were planes to catch and bills to pay
He learned to walk while I was away
And he was talking before I knew it and as he grew
He said, "Im gonna be like you, Dad
You know Im gonna be like you"
And the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
When you comin' home, Dad, I dont know when
But we'll get together then
You know we'll have a good time then
My son turned ten just the other day
He said, "Thanks for the ball, Dad, come on let's play
Can you teach me to throw?" I said, "Not today
I got a lot to do", he said, "That's okay"
And he walked away but his smile never dimmed
And said, "Im gonna be like him, yeah
You know Im going to be like him"
And the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
When you comin' home, Dad, I don't know when
But we'll get together then
You know we'll have a good time then
Well, he came from college just the other day
So much like a man I just had to say
"Son, Im proud of you, can you sit for a while?"
He shook his head and he said with a smile
"What I'd really like, Dad, is to borrow the car keys
See you later, can I have them please?"
And the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
When you comin' home, son, I don't know when
But we'll get together then, Dad
You know we'll have a good time then
Ive long since retired, my son's moved away
I called him up just the other day
I said, "I'd like to see you if you dont mind"
He said, "I'd love to Dad, if I could find the time"
"You see my new job's a hassle and the kids have the flu
But it's sure nice talking to you, Dad
It's been sure nice talking to you"
And as I hung up the phone it had occurred to me
He'd grown up just like me
My boy was just like me
And the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
When you comin' home, son, I don't know when
But we'll get together then, Dad
We're gonna have a good time then
Song blew then and still does IMHO

[flyer1]

Song blew then and still does IMHO

I disagree. The song emphasizes priorities and what we as children learn from our folks. (Good or bad).

[Tazza]

I got into casting after they banned .45s over here in .au. I had about 3,000 .45 185 SWC projectiles that i couldn't use any more, so what to do? melt them down, and cast into 9mm projectiles of course... Since then, it was a slippery slope. I haven't bought projectiles from a store since.

I'm 37 now, i haven't been casting that long, maybe 10 years?

Fellow shooters my age can't be bothered doing it, they just buy 'em, load 'em and shoot 'em. Some even have the cash to buy factory ammo, they shoot and leave the brass where it falls. Isn't it nice to have money?

[26Charlie]

Some people are immune to instruction - you just have to let them go by. A new reloader was having dud rounds at the range about half the time, he primed with the bench press. I told him he was getting oil or grease on the primers as he put them into the primer arm. According to him, I couldn't possibly be right. I got angry and told him I had been reloading since I was 15, at that point about 45 years prior. How did I know things like that? Experience. He started a week ago. He stayed away from me from then on, and later died about 14 years ago. Still immune to instruction. I resolved later to let things and people like that go by, save myself the aggravation.

[OS OK]

Some people are immune to instruction - you just have to let them go by. A new reloader was having dud rounds at the range about half the time, he primed with the bench press. I told him he was getting oil or grease on the primers as he put them into the primer arm. According to him, I couldn't possibly be right. I got angry and told him I had been reloading since I was 15, at that point about 45 years prior. How did I know things like that? Experience. He started a week ago. He stayed away from me from then on, and later died about 14 years ago. Still immune to instruction. I resolved later to let things and people like that go by, save myself the aggravation.

…^…+1...Immune to anything that threatens their 'fragile reality'.

OS OK

[Stilly]

I call it internet syndrome. I see there is a long line of folks that already replied, but it seems that the internet and cell phones has made the younger generation rather impatient. EVERYTHING is about gotta have it yesterday. The internet is nice, but folks need to not let it rule their life. Your story would have been funnier if you told him the cure was to buy a Dillon 650XL because those fix everything... ;) I know, I am pure evil at times.

And I feel that this thread is NOT about old timers hating on youngins. It is about the pure stupidity of not wanting to be bothered but wanting the answer on demand so that whenever someone has a moment of time-out of their busy social media-governed lol-chat life they can remember there is something waiting for them that will fill that brief moment in time when they get to stop and wonder what else there is to do.

I like to help people too, but if they take it for granted then they are on their own.

[bichettereds]

I don't think it's a generation thing. Certainly younger people tend to be less patient, but not all of us. I'm 30.

This is the internet age but thats a good thing. If this guy knew where to look he would've figured out what he did wrong without having to leave his house. Maybe he's just not cut out for this hobby. There's lots of people like that, of all ages.

[granville_it]

I'm not being condescending, and I don't necessarily think it's an age thing.

However, I find that there are "trinity" people, i.e. "I, me and my", and those of us like ......

I'll let you decide, after all, it's a value judgement.

Cheers Mark.

[6bg6ga]

I've been reloading now for 40+ years. I had to learn it all on my own. My dad was a no nonsense type of person that believed I should learn things on my own in order to build a good knowledge base. While I did cuss him under my breath for not sitting down with me and spoon feeding me I can see the merit of his thoughts and actions. By forcing me to read and learn about reloading he forced me to take a good hard look at every aspect of casting, sizing, and reloading. Most but not all of todays youth have everything handed to them. They start out as young children incapable of playing with toys that are not self powered or toys that may not captivate their attention with weird noises and explosions. In my day I was lucky enough to have a second or third hand pedal car. Now days they have their Barbie or John Deere battery powered cars. Maybe we as a society are to blame for not instilling simple values that we grew up with like being respectful or punctual. We have provided high tech toys instead of forcing them to use imagination like we did. No high tech stuff for me as I was happy with a big box to play in or a pot from the kitchen to use as a drum. Its frustrating that most of the youth cannot cope if they have their smart phones taken away. How many can say they have never been to a concert or played with computer games? I can. I will say that if I am ever faced with a young person that is interested enough to approach me and ask for guidance and some schooling with regard to loading and casting I will be there for that individual. I will also lay down some ground rules from the start.