ES fluid bed tests

[popper]

Ok, tried with HiTek (gold 1035 powder) today in my really simple (poor) FB. Used paper towel for membrane - needs to be better. Anyway, just like normal PC, passed smash & size test. More to come. Coating micd 0.001" but wasn't even everywhere. Smash test was good, sized scraped a little on one side. NO drying time! ES source is my HF gun. PC test was equally good. Got to hook my hot plate to the PID for conduction cooking, base down.
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163793
And PC I used hemostats on this test, the HF alligator clip actually works better.
163946
Got the hot plate modified for PID so I'll dunk in ESFB, drop base onto NSAF covered hot plate to cook. No knocking over now.

[bangerjim]

There is lots of trials and tribulations on the net about what is the best (and worst) membrane material to use.

Do some searching. Not just any old piece of carp will work for the membrane.


I did some serious research 3-4 years ago B4 BBDT came along and I bought my ESPC guns.

banger

[dverna]

Good luck popper!

[jcren]

On the membrane point, I have just started playing with a home made fb myself and have had the best luck so far with premium resume paper. Plain old 20# copier paper worked ok as well. Please update your findings, maybe we can help each other. I am working on using it for bare nose pc coating.

[bangerjim]

The best air source is a fish aquarium air pump, not a big huge shop compressor with reducing regulators and needle valves.

Pleanty of flow and easily controllable with an aquarium aor valve sold at the same place.

Portable.

[bstone5]

Made one a few years back using an aguarium pump, worked but slow to do a lot of bullets.
There are a few You Tube movies on making the unit, a union with note book paper worked.
For a few thousand at a time of cast bullets the spray gun is the best for me.

[popper]

Primary purpose of this is to be able to ESPC in the garage without moving the cars out. Much easier setup and storage. Soccer mom area so doing anything outside is verboten.

[Beagle333]

Excellent-sounding preliminaries!:drinks:

[10sandxs]

I've been thinking about this as well recently but I thought you had to preheat the bullets to make the powder stick. Do I understand that your using an electrostatic source to charge the bullet instead?

[popper]

Coated 5 more today,raining on & off outside. Sized 308, measured 311-312 (~0.002 thick and repeatable) after cooking 10 min after glaze. ~10 sec to coat each. Nothing to clean up. Stuff on base is from past experiments, stuff on the Al foil was from today. Got some better membrane material to try. Put some on my shop vac to clean the other mess up - worked great.
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[popper]

jcren - got some membrane in the mail to test, I'll probably have some left over. Will try removing the gun from the box, wire direct. Had thought of using the 'first try' rig on the end of the gun but takes too much bench space. I've seen some $15 HV bricks (from China) on amazon - might get one to try. I suppose an aquarium pump would be good too but I already have the 50 gal. compressor. IF I can get cost under $40 others may be interested - I will NOT be making them - just working parts list and diagram for operation.
1) I just use it for long rifle boolits
2) It works
3) coating thickness is well controlled
4) NOT messy at all - unless you do as I did (ONCE) and use too much pressure.
5) don't need to preheat boolits - if you goof, wipe & re-coat before cooking. Miss a spot? - re-coat.

[jcren]

I got a nice dual outlet aquarium pump with built in flow control knob for $25. Haven't worked on it lately, sidetracked on 380's. I intend to adapt a device to hold the nose of the 30 cal to keep powder off the nose. I don't have a static generator on mine. It applies a thin coat nicely, but can be knocked off easily.

[bzajdek]

I have tried vacumn cleaning bags but the best I have yet to use is tyvex from a piece of a shoe cover or suit. I use the FB for saltwater fishing jigs never tried it on boolits.

[popper]

Did 40 or so today, no mess. I do have to put a heat spreader on the hot plate, one slumped due to a hot spot. Got to size and age them so I can go SHOOTING and quit tinkering. Membrane I use is industrial FB membrane. Dang, got hit by the second hailstorm last night - in a month. Never seen that stuff bounce 50 ft after hitting before. Poor folks east had it go through the roof & ceiling, I heard grapefruit size. Wife picked these up 20 min after it quit.
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[Walter Laich]

Ouch, that size could kill you if you got caught out in it.

Hope all your outside 'stuff' is OK

[jcren]

I take it you are preheating, I missed that part. Did I understand that you are also using a static generator? My fb cost right at $45 total, and the pump is more than needed. Used a pvc union and put the membrane between the halves.

[NavyVet1959]

I tried a fluid bed, but the aquarium pump didn't seem to put out enough air. Returned it and went back to "shake & bake". Haven't been motivated enough to give it a try again with a regular air compressor.

[corey012778]

popper, have you tried coffee filters for your Membrane. when I did my trails with fluid bedding. I made little baskets to hold the boolits in.

reading these make me want to pull out my old set up and modify it.

[NavyVet1959]

No, real plastic F.B. material from supplier.

Got a link for that supplier? I've looked for the porous plastic sheets, but all the supplier links I came across were from Taiwan, China, or India and they didn't list prices.

[rsrocket1]

The static electricity generated with shaking is from the powder making and breaking contact with the lead. Just like when you pull off a sweater in low humidity. I've found the best sure coat way for me was to simply shake the container as hard as possible followed by a swirl for a couple of seconds, then shake again. Once the bullets are coated there's usually an excess of powder sticking to it. I pick them up with a nitrile glove dusted in powder, tap the excess powder off the bullets on a separate pan, then set them on the baking tray.

I think that's why a vibratory tumbler works so well at coating the bullets, that violent shaking knocks the powder off which generates more static electricity.

[Bama]

Popper, You mentioned that the ion generator module powered by battery worked but was slow to generate charge. For an electronically challenged individual, is the module method of generating charge worth the trouble? Also what have you seen of the effect of humidity with this method?

[NavyVet1959]

I'm thinking that the HV lead off of an old CRT TV might work if you designed the system right. I fooled with it a bit and it looked promising. I also got zapped a couple of times in the process. :(

[popper]

Bama - I have not tried the ion generator module, just the HF gun HV hooked up. I was looking for a low $ alternative, found a few but haven't tried them. Humidity hasn't bothered this system, was rainy day last time I did some. Do I believe this type system has advantages to spraying? YES. Less mess and better quality of coating, no special 'trays', booths, etc. Have I perfected it yet, NO. My intent is to get a reliable good system and provide info for others who may want to try. I only PC for HV rifle.

[NavyVet1959]

So, if you put the high voltage lead off the back of the CRT in the fluid bed and then grounded a small pin nose type clamp / forceps that was used to hold the bullet and then dunked it in the fluid bed, would that be the right polarity to attract the powder to the bullet?

Of course, a very thick insulated set of gloves would probably be nice while working with voltages of this level.

*Supposedly*, the amperage on the HV CRT lead is not enough to kill you, but I know from personal experience, it will "get your attention".

[Bama]

Popper, The attached link actually talks about shocking people using an ion generator but the video has a part showing what happens when hand is passed over sand. They have used a 120 v module and use car converter hooked to 9V battery. I searched for 12v modules and they can be had for less than $5. They way it picks up sand on hand, picking up PC should be easy. Have you been just charging air under powder or have you had grid actually in PC bed?
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Shock-Anything-Fry-Electronics-with-a-Tou/

[NavyVet1959]

Flyback system (B&W TV has lots of power) be careful with them - much more volts than I like to play with. Color uses a tripler diode setup - I tried to get a module for my (really old) Sony and they are expensive. HV low leakage diodes are hard to get and $$.

With so many people switching to flat panel monitors and TVs these days, there's always someone giving away a CRT type TV or monitor on CraigsList or just sitting on the sidewalk waiting for trash pickup. I read an article recently that stated that the amperage from a CRT is not likely to kill you even though it definitely hurts when you get hit by it. Figuring 150W for the CRT, you're looking at 1.36A at 110V. Figuring a 200:1 transformer to get to the operating HV level, that brings the amperage down to 6.8 mA. You need about 100 mA for death and 10 mA for muscle twitching to be enough that you probably won't be able to let go.

Now, having said that, I've been hit by the HV from a monitor / TV power supply a few times and it is definitely not something that I would willingly subject myself to, even knowing that it should not kill me. Let's just say that I take a few more precautions these days than I did back before I had been hit by it a few times. It definitely feels worse than getting hit by an electric fence for livestock.

[NavyVet1959]

26mV across the heart nerves to stop the heart, ~20ma will burn the nerves out, meaning it doesn't work anymore. HF gun current @10KV is ~100 microamps. It still hurts. I'm using a small WW 1 megohm resistor to limit current to 500 uA, powder charging current is down in the 10-20uA range.

"It's not the voltage, it's the amperage."

Every time I've been hit by the HV lead from a CRT, it has not been across the heart. Usually, it's in via the hand and then out via an elbow that is probably closest to something else that is grounded. But it still *hurts*.

[fishingsetx]

Not sure about death, but when I worked doing TV repair, I saw one new guy get ahold of the flyback on a 32" RCA, and he ended up off his stool, flat on his back. Ive been hit by my 25kv PC gun several times, and, while uncomfortable, it was no where near "knock you off your stool" painful. Be careful with those CRT's!!!!

What are you using for a ground on your system?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[NavyVet1959]

Not sure about death, but when I worked doing TV repair, I saw one new guy get ahold of the flyback on a 32" RCA, and he ended up off his stool, flat on his back. Ive been hit by my 25kv PC gun several times, and, while uncomfortable, it was no where near "knock you off your stool" painful. Be careful with those CRT's!!!!

I got too close to the HV lead on a CRT for a radar indicator once and a really nice looking blue arc jumped out and got me. Knocked me across the compartment and left a nice charred spot on my fingertip where it hit. Definitely gets your attention...

[NavyVet1959]

Also, exposure to high energy low freq/sub-audio will cause permanent brain damage and temporary illness.

That explains musicians then...

[Bama]

Something to try--I had been adding bullets and a little powder and shaking to coat bullets. After about 50 or 60 cycles I started having a problem getting a good coat of powder even though there was a lot in container. I use a dehumidifier in shop area to prevent rusting on lathes and other tools. I place container with top removed so outlet air from dehumidifier went over the top and left over night. Next day I got the best coat to date. This is also how I dry cast bullets after water drop. Really works.

[popper]

Coated a few more today, still black & HF red mix. Made a mod this morning to get better thickness control. Cooler and humidity is down even though we got rain last nite. 5 of 6 give 0.002" concentric with 10 count in the rig. One mostly black came out way too thick (0.009) and will fail sizing - off center and wipes out the small L.G. on one side. PC doesn't move but lead moves to the base, even makes a base fin so accuracy goes to pot. I do believe the 6KV ion generator will do the job. Smoke's powder appears to need less voltage.

[popper]

Weighed uncoated & coated boolits - 0.1gr difference with FA scale.
Coating is very consistent in thickness (goal) - timing dependent. 0.0015" on the 2 I weighed, 3 others 0.002". F.B. material from Porex Corp. (interstatesp.com is the distributor - for large quantities and you need to know what to order) doesn't give as many tornadoes. I have 2 12x16" sheets of the Porex material if someone wants some - gifted to me so I can pass it on. Thanks go to Porex for assistance on this project.

[NavyVet1959]

Just for grins I tried heated boolits, no HV today. Soaked @ ~260F for 10 min, turned the pressure up a tad and got reasonable coating. 0.001-0.0015 best I can tell. Coated faster than ES method. Wiping the base was a little harder. HF red powder. Surface cools pretty quick so I might do the soak @ 280 or 300F. Cool and humid today.

My experiment with heating the bullets in a shallow skillet on an electric hotplate set on the lowest setting showed promise. My fluid bed experiment had not worked well (insufficient air volume via the aquarium pump), so I was just tumbling them with ASBBs, but the coating seemed good. The coating was a bit heavy since I could not decrease the time that the warm bullets were exposed to the powder as much as I think it should have been.

[popper]

Havent given up on. This, just shelved for the summer. Taking 4 Ks to Washington on the Brazos, Space center, Astros,wife's got a bunch of road trips. She called the EMTs on me the 4th as I was having chest pains, everything was OK.

[NavyVet1959]

I picked up one of those ion generators (JP-D1221), but I'm not sure about how to wire it up. There a red and black wire on one end and since the input is supposed to be 12VDC, I connected the +12V to the red wire and the ground to the black were. On the other end are two white wires that have whiskers on them. I removed the insulation back a bit to expose the metal, but I do not get a spark when I touch the white wires together. I tried touching the wires, but I do not get a shock. Something strange is happening though since I get a lengthy spark when I hook the red wire up.

What's the correct way of wiring this device up?

[popper]

http://astamuse.com/ja/published/JP/No/2013074779 best info I can find for you. I'd put a resistor in HV line to avoid burning out the diodes - current limiter.

[NavyVet1959]

http://astamuse.com/ja/published/JP/No/2013074779 best info I can find for you. I'd put a resistor in HV line to avoid burning out the diodes - current limiter.

Anything in English?

[popper]

Scroll down and look at the schematic. Can be + or - HV, red should be hot on the DC side. It's a flyback type, not much current. With a one meg resistor should get a spark across the gap. You could use a couple feet of RG 58 (not the cheap stuff) to add capacitance for more charge. Probably need 500uA for coating.

[NavyVet1959]

Well, I decided to experiment with the ion generator tonight and see how well it worked. I hooked the red wire to positive and the black wire to both the negative power and the forceps that I held the bullet with. The two white wires with the "whiskers", I drilled a hole in the side of the fluid bed and fed them into it. It ends up taking about 4-5 seconds in the fluid bed to get an even coating, but I need to modify the forceps a bit so that they are not shadowing the coating.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/static-fluid-bed-01-320w.jpg

The power supply that I'm using is 9VDC, 300ma. Supposedly, the ion generator module is expecting a 12VDC power source.

The powder I used is Harbor Freight Yellow. I wanted something that does not work well with the ASBB method so that I could know whether this method had potential.

Looks like it might be worth pursuing, but my technique just needs a bit of work.

[NavyVet1959]

Here's a closer image. The bullets have been run through the resizer. I tried to hold the bullet on the nose with the forceps and as you can see, there is a slight "shadow" where the powder did not get to the portion of the nose that was blocked by the forceps. I'm thinking some type of modification to the forceps where the bullet was being held by needle-like points instead of flat surfaces might work.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/static-fluid-bed-02-320w.jpg

I think I need to change out my beer can pan liner since the powdercoat is finally starting to stick to it. :)

[NavyVet1959]

Maybe some sort of clip designed like this:

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/powder-coating-spring-clip.jpg

I remember seeing some sort of clip designed like this at one time, but I don't know what it is called, so I couldn't search the web for an actual example and had to just draw it up instead.

[NavyVet1959]

Here's basically what I ended up building:

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/electrostatic-fluid-bed-design.jpg

[iMigraine]

This Youtube video on proper fluidization (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF-bNVqlB_g), looks interesting. He's using a bucket. Seems like the main difficulty with FB, is finding a way to hold the boolits for smooth coverage.

[NavyVet1959]

This Youtube video on proper fluidization (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF-bNVqlB_g), looks interesting. He's using a bucket. Seems like the main difficulty with FB, is finding a way to hold the boolits for smooth coverage.

With the forceps that I've used so far, there definitely is an issue with a bit of electrostatic "shadow" where you are holding the bullets so that the area where you're holding the bullets do not get a full coverage. This was shown in the second ES FB photo (http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/static-fluid-bed-02-320w.jpg) that I posted. If you are holding the bullets by the nose though, this area is not touching the barrel, so the issue is purely cosmetic. The bearing surfaces of the bullet are coated completely, so from just a lubrication standpoint, it's doing its job. Still, I would like for it to have complete coverage, even if it is just cosmetic. I think that perhaps changing from the forceps that I'm using to a piece of wire bent in the design I have above might be small enough to prevent the shadowing, give full coverage, and the small points where the wire touches the bullet should get filled in when the powder melts.

I'm probably not using as much powder as those YouTube videos on fluid beds are using. Instead of a thick fluid-like mixture to dip the bullets into, I have more of a cloud. One good thing is that this lets me see the bullet as the powder collects on it.

[popper]

Looks good Navy. I'll try to get back on this this fall. I actually have the ionizer under the membrane - need to try it the other way.

[NavyVet1959]

Looks good Navy. I'll try to get back on this this fall. I actually have the ionizer under the membrane - need to try it the other way.

Did you wire yours up the same way that I wired mine (i.e. the negative from the power supply going to the black wire on the ion generator AND to the handle of your tweezers / forceps / whatever)?

I didn't think about putting the high voltage lead under the membrane. I was under the impression that the ES guns put the HV lead downstream from the powder flow and we were basically creating something like a reverse ES gun (although not in polarity) where the ES gun was stationary and the object to be powercoated moved into the path of the ES gun. As least that is the assumption I was going with when I plumbed it this way.

I don't have a lot of powder in the container, so I'm not creating the same type of thick fluid bed that you see in the YouTube videos by the guys doing the heated jigheads. With the amount of powder I have in it, it seems to be more of a fog of powder and I can watch it quickly cover the bullet before I pull it out.

I also took a 2-liter soda bottle and cut the top out of it so that it is slightly smaller in diameter than the 2" PVC pipe so that it could be slipped over the pipe and give me a bit more height so that any powder that exits the pipe is less likely to end up on my countertop. I cut the other end off the soda bottle about halfway up.

[NavyVet1959]

Just got through with another test of using HF yellow with the ES fluid bed design that I've been experimenting with.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/static-fluid-bed-03-320w.jpg

(full resolution) (http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/static-fluid-bed-03.jpg)

Other than accidentally knocking the bullet over and having to grab it with the forceps to turn it back over and messing up a bit on the nose, it seems like it turned out OK. Looks like it might show promise.

If you look closely at the full resolution image, you will see a couple of black specs in the covering. I think those are just some flakes of HF flat black powder coating that was in the bowl that I used to sweep the yellow when some of it landed on the surface that I had the ES fluid bed sitting on.

To make the clips to hold the bullet, I used some welding MIG wire. It seemed kind of stiff and springy. I tried bending it to make it into the clip design that I previous posted, but it didn't work so well. It kept wanting to bend into another plane. So, I tried just simplifying it to basically a U or V shape with very small 90 degree tips on the end. If I used it with one tip touching the nose of the bullet and the other tip touching the base of the bullet, it gave really good coverage.

The problem then became removing the bullet from the clip when I tried it with the forceps, I ended up dropping it and when I picked it back up, some of the powder came off. Still, it wasn't much and as you can see from the above photo, it's not *too* bad.

Now I'm wandering if it might be worthwhile to create a sort of metal rack with a lot of small metal pegs that I could use to hang these clips and bullets on them and cook the entire thing in the convection oven.

[iMigraine]

Nice update. I thought of the same problem, when removing the boolits from the jig or custom "forceps"; how in the heck do you keep it from toppling over when you set them down? For now, I'm drilling holes in a piece of pine board to fit the bases of a rifle boolit's gas check area. So then, the gas check area is covered from PC and can be baked right too. Fluid Bed PC looks interesting for powder coating but trying to find a way too get complete coverage is daunting.

Thought about taking a rifle boolit, pointing head first down, using wire to make a loop to hold the boolit around the head. This exposes all the sides. But then, one would need to place this head down bullet on modified brass case tray for baking. However, if the loop doesn't open up. The loop would be stuck between the brass case and pc boolit!

[NavyVet1959]

Here's the simple clip that I ended up making to hold the bullet while dipping it in the ES fluid bed:

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/static-fluid-bed-bullet-clip-01-320w.jpg

The might look like it's made from copper, but it's steel. I think there is a thin copper coating on it though for corrosion resistance.

[RP]

If you have to hang the bullet in on a clip to get a good coating what is the long term plan for coating? Not bashing anything here just wondering or did I miss something and this part is just to fine tune the process then upscale it.

[iMigraine]

For me this would be for fine tuning, especially for rifle boolits, which I'm just starting to get into. If you can get an even, smooth coverage that should help accuracy compared to shake & bake rifle boolits. For pistol, shake a bake is good enough for me.

[NavyVet1959]

If you have to hang the bullet in on a clip to get a good coating what is the long term plan for coating? Not bashing anything here just wondering or did I miss something and this part is just to fine tune the process then upscale it.

Right now, I'm just experimenting for the sake of experimenting... Just getting idea of what could work...

I suspect that if someone was into automation, they could create a really long oven and utilize the clip idea along with a long drive chain. It could snake it's way through the oven so that the bullets took 20 minutes to make it through the oven, with the chain having way to hang the clips onto it. Once they are hanging on the chain, it would be possible to have the chain take a dip in an ES fluid bed to coat the bullets.

I see the clips as a possible solution for some of those long rifle bullets that are so difficult to stand on end and not knock over while moving them into the oven. Some people might actually want to try this method so that they can get near perfect noses and bases. I say "near" because there *might* be a single dot on the nose and base where the clip is touching that will not have powder coating on it. I don't know... I've yet to try baking them while hanging from the clips. There might even end up being a dot of flashing around the points of the clip touch the nose and base of the bullet.

Besides, it's easier to experiment with different ideas on clips than to start trying to modify forceps for different designs. Forceps have pretty small noses and trying to drill a hole in them that is small enough for a needle to go through in order to make some needle point jaws could be difficult for me. I just don't have that sort of fine metalworking tools. I might experiment around with trying to solder / braze some wire tips to the forceps so that there will be less shadowing of the powder coat when using them. It would be like attaching the tip ends to the forcep ends.

[NavyVet1959]

I decided to take a spare set of forceps and try bending the noses and then filing / grinding them down a bit to decrease the amount of powder missing from the nose due to the shadowing of the forceps.

Surprisingly, the stainless steel filed fairly easily. Maybe this was a pair of forceps that I had heated up once in a flame while working on something? Don't remember...

Anyway, here's what they looked like after I got through with them:

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/forceps-mod-01-320w.jpg

And here's what the bullets looked like after I used these forceps to dip each bullet into the ES fluid bed, after curing:

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/static-fluid-bed-04-320w.jpg

[popper]

Did you wire yours up the same way that I wired mine (i.e. the negative from the power supply going to the black wire on the ion generator AND to the handle of your tweezers / forceps / whatever)? I use the HF gun for Negative HV and grounded the forceps with the HF ground wire. Yes I think we did the same. Gun tip connected to a grid under the membrane.

[NavyVet1959]

I use the HF gun for Negative HV and grounded the forceps with the HF ground wire. Yes I think we did the same. Gun tip connected to a grid under the membrane.

The negative ion generator module I have comes with 2 HV leads that end in some sort of micro-paintbrush looking whiskers. I just drilled a hole above the "membrane" (I think I'm just using 20-lb paper) and stuck both of the leads through it. I suspect that a metal grid would work even better, but this seems to do good enough. I seem to be getting plenty of charge on the powder and it is being attracted to the bullet. This issue now is how to best / most efficiently hold the bullet while it is dipped in the ES powder bed.

[NavyVet1959]

One thing I discovered today is that when you are using 20-lb paper for a filter media, if a 230 gr bullet slips from your forceps and drops into the powder, it will poke a hole in the paper. I hadn't realized that it had broken the paper, but I wasn't getting the powder flowing quite the same, so i was having to periodically shake it. Eventually, I decided to dump the powder out of the fluid bed and clean / examine it and discovered the hole. Ooops...

Replacing the media fixed the problem...

Tried some HF white powder today with the ES fluid bed (ESFB). The bullets came out nicely dusted, but after the baking, it wasn't an opaque white. You could still see some of the underlying lead. Upon examination with a magnifying glass showed that the bullet appeared coated with a clear coating, but the pigment was not everywhere.

[iMigraine]

Navy, maybe you should try different powder than Harbor Freight. I understand why you picked it but it could also be the reason why you can't get good coverage too! Just a thought.

[NavyVet1959]

Navy, maybe you should try different powder than Harbor Freight. I understand why you picked it but it could also be the reason why you can't get good coverage too! Just a thought.

Well, I have a container of each of the HF colors, so I'm going to have to use them up before I consider any other brands of powder.

I probably should do a test of the white powder with the ES gun so that I have a base point for comparison to see how well the bullets turn out with ES gun vs ESFB. If they turn out the same, then I would be inclined to say that the ESFB is working acceptably. What I like about the ESFB though is that I can do it inside and it doesn't result in overspray and it is good for doing small batches.

[popper]

20-lb paper for a filter media exactly why I use the plastic filter. I had 2 problems with the course filter too much 'flow' and powder was pushed into the filter. I might try paper on top of the course.Your original clip holder looks like a fly tying feather clip - you could probably make it from SS spring wire. Anxious to get back to this but alas too many other 'must do' things going on.

[Dragonheart]

No need to reinvent the wheel. Custom trim carpenters have been using these for years. The ones I have are about 4" long and it takes a man's hand to open one, or special pliers. They are called Miter Spring Clamps, available at woodworking supply houses or Amazon. They also come in a C shape.
180315

[iMigraine]

Looking on Youtube for media ideas, looks like a grocery paper bag (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WELQxrOr30) might work ok. But no idea how it compares to Popper's commercial fluid bed media.

[iMigraine]

Just curios how big are the fluid beds you guys are making. On youtube, most videos they are using 2 inch PVC pipe for dipping fishing lures. Would a 3" or 4" offer any advantage? The size of those Miter Spring Clips look too big to fit in a 2" PVC pipe too. Thanks.

[NavyVet1959]

Just curios how big are the fluid beds you guys are making. On youtube, most videos they are using 2 inch PVC pipe for dipping fishing lures. Would a 3" or 4" offer any advantage? The size of those Miter Spring Clips look too big to fit in a 2" PVC pipe too. Thanks.

I'm making my own clips out of MIG welding wire and they are a lot smaller.