My lube didn't stay in grove....Pan lube

[lablover]

Made some lube I saw on you tube..

I cut it down for a smaller batch

1/2 Lb Beeswax
1/2 Lb Parafin
8 OZ Vasoline
1/2 oz STP oil Treatment
2 crayons

Now, after typing this I realized it should of been one crayon...****, 2 is for 1 lb of ea wax.

Anywho, so did the extra crayon make my lube not want to stick in the grooves? I did not let it set for 24 hours, maybe 4.

Can I mod ivy this recipe to make something that works?

Thanks all

Joe

[JSnover]

I've not had that problem pan-lubing with Emmerts: 50% Beeswax, 40% Crisco, 10% vegetable oil (Jojoba, Canola, Olive have all worked). Let the cake cool to room temp (I don't like to put it in the fridge; gets too brittle), put it on a towel (you don't need to fold it) and give each bullet a smart tap on the nose to break them free. Poke them out though the back side.

[Mica_Hiebert]

I hated pan lubing sold 2 giant pans of it local for 20 bux

[runfiverun]

crayons cause all sorts of trouble when put in a lube.
they used to be used for color but are quickly losing favor because of their make-up.
you have to wait for a new lube to sit around and come together, about 24hrs is minimum. a little longer will tell you exactly how the lube will feel over time.

once it sits if it feels crumbly or slimy with no mush to it you need more mineral oil to plasticize the paraffin content.
luckily vasoline is paraffin with mineral oil in it.
the closer you need the lube to be to it, the more you need to add.
up to a point, then it just becomes a thicker version of the vasoline.[which us what you done initially then modified that with the bees-wax]
if you have some lanolin that would help add softness and some sticky that the stp doesn't quite cover. [2-3 tsp runded would help]
barring that just add a little more vasoline.

[lablover]

crayons cause all sorts of trouble when put in a lube.
they used to be used for color but are quickly losing favor because of their make-up.
you have to wait for a new lube to sit around and come together, about 24hrs is minimum. a little longer will tell you exactly how the lube will feel over time.

once it sits if it feels crumbly or slimy with no mush to it you need more mineral oil to plasticize the paraffin content.
luckily vasoline is paraffin with mineral oil in it.
the closer you need the lube to be to it, the more you need to add.
up to a point, then it just becomes a thicker version of the vasoline.[which us what you done initially then modified that with the bees-wax]
if you have some lanolin that would help add softness and some sticky that the stp doesn't quite cover. [2-3 tsp runded would help]
barring that just add a little more vasoline.


Outstanding..Thanks for the tip..Time for a re melt...LOL..I think

After a overnight wait it's not too bad, A bit stiff so I may add some gasoline and see if I can soften it up a bit.

Worst case I start shopping for a lubing sizer

OR, stick with Powder Coat :)

[lablover]

Guess I could always use it as a flux now :)

[6bg6ga]

Just purchase a Star or Magma sizer lubricator and be done with it.

[rwadley]

Outstanding..Thanks for the tip..Time for a re melt...LOL..I think

After a overnight wait it's not too bad, A bit stiff so I may add some gasoline and see if I can soften it up a bit.

Worst case I start shopping for a lubing sizer

OR, stick with Powder Coat :)
Did you mean ''vasoline''?

[OS OK]

:bigsmyl2:
Did you mean ''vasoline''? No…he's decided to dip Q-Tips in it for Tiki Torches:bigsmyl2:

Sorry…I have a demented mind…it escapes me every now and then!

[country gent]

I have also found that "cooking" the bullets and lube 10 mins or so after the lube has melted helps some getting the mass of the bullets to lube temp allowing and giving it time to flow into grooves. The let cool to room temp or longer to set up good. I do this in a double boiler type set up one pan with bullets and lube in a slightly bigger pan of water. 1/4" X1/2"-1" runners allows for water under the pan also. This keeps lube from scourching and keeps it hot molten longer when cooling. I pan lube with emmerts improved and SPG. Lubes will also determine temp and time. I dont push bullets out but use a cake cutter to remove them. Save the pan for that caliber and just keep setting new bullets in the exiting holes in the lube, remelting and adding what you need.

[lablover]

LOL..Yea POOF

[sundog]

First thing I thought of was lack of stickiness. First solution that came to mind was anhydrous lanolin.

Also, I eschew crayons and all else color things (candle wax, lipstick in particular) due to an extended conversation (and some research on my own) that went on here or maybe even on the old Shooters board. Seems these thing have all sorts of stuff like silicates and aluminium salts and such that I just do not want to put down the bore. That's how the color gets into whatever it is that has color.

I assume your loob is for smokeless loads, eh?

[runfiverun]

it's not that big of a deal and I can guarantee you ain't the first one to make a batch of oxide reductant.
most pain lubes do a ton better with low paraffin content and more bees-wax content it's just the nature of the paraffin wax to be brittle and the only way to soften it is with a mineral oil.
unfortunately the mineral oils add a slipperiness that retards the lube from staying in the lube grooves so a fine balance needs to be found with them.

you have a couple of out's on this one, adding bees-wax is the better option and then modifying that, versus working the paraffin over too much swinging the other way.

[jimofaz]

Joe,
What is your boolit design? My 'NASA' style ..38, .40. & .45 BPCR boolits with a single lube groove do not pan lube as easy as the more 'conventional' BPCR designs, regardless of the pan lube used. I have a syringe type bullet extractor that I have to use on 'NASA' boolits to cut them from the pan lube cake. Also, even here in AZ, it helps to pre-warm the bullets just a little to keep the lube from cooling too quickly. Cold boolits can cause poor pan lube groove fillout. YMMV. Recipe mod? Personally, I'd omit the crayons.
Hope this helps,
Jim

[lablover]

Thanks guys

Yes, smokeless loads. I think I'm going to do another batch and omit the crayons and go a little heavier on the beeswax. Also gonna search here for an alternative, with most of the same ingredients. The beeswax aint cheap. Good think is I did some casting today and the first batch of lube seemed to work good for flux.

Jimo

H&G 68 style. they popped out pretty easy after letting them set for over 24 hours

[Char-Gar]

Add some lube glue to the mix.

[ShooterAZ]

If you are getting into casting as seriously as I think you are, you are going to want to invest in a lube/sizer. Some guys will recommend powder coating, I tried it, and was much more of a PITA to me than using a lube/sizer. RCBS makes an excellent unit called the Lam2.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/172702/rcbs-lube-a-matic-2-bullet-sizer-and-lubricator

White Label Lube is a vendor sponsor here, and they make some fantastic lubes. While it's always good to know how to make your own, you would be hard pressed to make it cheaper than you can buy it from them.

http://www.lsstuff.com/

I hope this helps!

[lablover]

If you are getting into casting as seriously as I think you are, you are going to want to invest in a lube/sizer. Some guys will recommend powder coating, I tried it, and was much more of a PITA to me than using a lube/sizer. RCBS makes an excellent unit called the Lam2.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/172702/rcbs-lube-a-matic-2-bullet-sizer-and-lubricator

White Label Lube is a vendor sponsor here, and they make some fantastic lubes. While it's always good to know how to make your own, you would be hard pressed to make it cheaper than you can buy it from them.

http://www.lsstuff.com/

I hope this helps!

Sure does...And I need to go shopping :)

[gwpercle]

Outstanding..Thanks for the tip..Time for a re melt...LOL..I think

After a overnight wait it's not too bad, A bit stiff so I may add some gasoline and see if I can soften it up a bit.

Worst case I start shopping for a lubing sizer

OR, stick with Powder Coat :)
Do NOT add gasoline and then heat it.....bad idea fairy is working O.T. here.
lablover, the absolute best reloading tool I ever bought was a lube/sizer...Lyman 450. Made sizing , lubricating and gas check seating all with one pull of the handle ..worth every cent in convenience and lack of a mess, as compared to pan lubing.
Powder coating had not been invented back then.
Gary

[lablover]

Do NOT add gasoline and then heat it.....bad idea fairy is working O.T. here.
lablover, the absolute best reloading tool I ever bought was a lube/sizer...Lyman 450. Made sizing , lubricating and gas check seating all with one pull of the handle ..worth every cent in convenience and lack of a mess, as compared to pan lubing.
Powder coating had not been invented back then.
Gary


Supposed to be Vasoline....LOL

[toallmy]

Emmerts works , and very simple if you only have a small amount of bee's wax try it . Save your mix for experimenting with at a later date . Definitely look for a lubesizer you and your wife will be much happier if you are married , keeps the mess out of the kitchen and the pans wear their suppose to be . + find beeswax on this site much cheaper than hobby shops .

[lablover]

Emmerts works , and very simple if you only have a small amount of bee's wax try it . Save your mix for experimenting with at a later date . Definitely look for a lubesizer you and your wife will be much happier if you are married , keeps the mess out of the kitchen and the pans wear their suppose to be . + find beeswax on this site much cheaper than hobby shops .


Funny timing..Just got my A$$ chewed cause someone dripped wax on the stove top...Bwahahahahahaha

[toallmy]

My wife wanted to know what I used the measuring cup for when she found it in the basement .

[fryboy]

About the only thing I can add here is about the crayons ( they were,to be fair,lightly touched upon )
As noted various things are used to "tint" the crayons,some are more problematic than others and quite often one can see particles settle in the cooled lube
Also not all crayons are made of wax and of the some that are it may not be a good wax or one compatible with our lubes, crayon brand has generally been the accepted and the most proven to work ( barring detrimental tinting bases of course ) an example would be the various metal colors with flakes,these usually settle somewhere in the mix,I've also read that most folks have had umm challenges with day glo/florescent colors ,in general the more transparent a color the less problematic ( only in general ) if you make a mark on a thin white sheet of paper with a few different ones and hold it up to the light you'll get an idea of what I'm trying to convey ,if you see particles it prolly isn't a good choice lolz ,most blues ,greens ,yellows are fairly safe ( of note adding blue to a unbleached beeswax based lube will turn the lube green and red will end up more of a orangish color etc )

[Dan Cash]

Ditch the parafin and add lanolin. Lanolin makes the lube sticky.

[toallmy]

I tried a couple crayons in a small batch of Emmets and it made it to brittle to stay in the lube grove . The only thing that bothers me with Emmetts is wiping off the base when loading . But I must say no leading and easy clean up with soft lube , plus runs through my lubesizer as is .

[SniderBoomer]

I still pan lube now and again. I had that same problem, the bullets were too cold and/or the melted lube not hot enough.

Try warming the bullets to hand-hot first with a hairdryer, and when you have your lube melted, give it a bit longer on the heat before you pour.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

oh yeah you just need to go to the nearest gunstore and open up your wallet and get a lyman/star lube/sizer. please don't forget to include advice fore peope who don't have that kind of money to spend. some of you have offered simple, cheap or free solutions. the op is pan lubing for a reason. just don't forget us little guys. I am in the process of perfecting my own lube right now. no way could I afford a lube/sizer, and if I could I'd get a lee 20lb bottom pour, and a new mold or some powder/primers or something. I don't mind the extra work of pan lubing. after all reloading is by definition, working harder to save a buck and enjoy seeing the fruits of your labor coming to fruition. good luck,Travis

[40Super]

I was in the same boat back a few , pan lubed for a while , but when shooting thousands of rounds(local bullseye league plus practice several guns) , it was an endless ordeal . Best thing I did was buy a used Lyman (classified here) and made my own heater block for the back of it . Well, well, well worth it even if needing to trade or sell something to get it . White Label stick of lube solved the other half of the mess but no reason to not make your own for the lube/sizers to save a bit if needed.

[Lead Fred]

Ive used the same formula since I started casting, real sticky.
I also pre heat the boolits in the oven for 20-30 min @ 200 degrees

1lb bee's wax from Randy Rat
1lb lard
8oz STP for smokeless
OR
8oz Cornola oil for holy black

Been tried and true for a century or so. (STP only the last few decades)

[Geezer in NH]

Uh? let it cool completely? Reason why I DO not lube that way.

[runfiverun]

that's close to my black powder lube mine is b-wax- Crisco-lanolin.
in about a 60-40-10 proportion, yes I know that's more than 100.
but if it dries out a little over time I can add a little olive oil or add more Crisco the next time I re-melt the lube.
the olive oil has a tendency to keep on softening the lube so use it sparingly.

[swmass]

I've moved on (or back I should say) to tumble lube for 38 and 45 but can't get it to work well in 9mm so I continue to pan lube for it. I've pan lubed all my boolits before with the same formula basically.. I use about 40% parafin and 60% vasaline, a splash of stp and a crayon. It didn't quite stick at first so I bumped up the vasaline to 60% instead of 50/50. I double heat mine.. So I load em into the tray, heat them directly on the burner making sure it doesn't smoke. Keep it set on low. Let it harden then I heat it up again then let it harden for 3-4 hours. Different bullets seem to require more lube in the tray so.. Try filling the pan up higher, it seems not to want to break apart and stay in the grooves when I make a nice thick lube cake. It's been working must fine ever since I started over filling the pan. Sure some lube gets in the crimp groove, but I crimp into the groove anyway even though it's got some lube in it and it's worked great with many styles of boolits

[lablover]

Ive got some 45-45-10 tumble lube on the way from white label. Might mix it with JLW and give that a go

[w5pv]

This touches on the reason that I like Castboolits and casting "If it doesn't work remelt it and start over" good luck

[Dale53]

Some lubes work with pan lubing and some do NOT. Here is an article I wrote for a magazine several years ago when I was shooting LOTS of Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Silhouette. Emmert's is a dandy home made lube for black powder AND smokeless powder use (it was actually developed by Buck Emmert for smokeless Schuetzen rifles). Emmert's is 50% pure natural beeswax, 40% Crisco, and 10% Canola oil. Later, I replaced the Canola Oil with Anhydrous Lanolin for longer shelf life. Prior to that, the lube on lubed bullets would slightly deteriorate when stored in a garage over the winter. The original Emmert's was good, the "improved" Emmert's was better (at least as good on the target but with longer shelf life on the bullets).

Emmert's is similar to the commercial black powder lube, SPG, but costs just a fraction of that amount. It works perfectly when pan lubing and runs through a lube sizer without issue. It does NOT require heating. The only possible issue, is that it is soft and melts at a rather low temperature. I never had any problems with it in hot weather but if left in a car trunk without protection, it is possible to have problems at elevated temps (NRA 50/50 melted on me and killed primers when loaded rounds were exposed to direct sun in an ammo box at well over 100 degrees for about twenty minutes, as an example). When I went to matches over a weekend when it was hot, I just stored my bullets and loaded rounds in a cooler (no ice as the cooler would cool over night and protected the bullets and loaded rounds nicely from the extreme heat during the day). Understand, a car in 100 degree temps can reach 135 degrees during the day (babies and dogs have died when left in a closed car in hot weather).

Mr. Snover's comments are directly on point. His experience with Black Powder Cartridge Rifles is of a VERY high level, by the way.

Here is a link to my original article on Cast Pics;
http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/the-library/bullet-lubes/313-pan-lubing-piece-of-cake

Dale

[William Yanda]

Add some lube glue to the mix.

Doesn't lube glue come free with each lot of lube grooves?

[lablover]

Some lubes work with pan lubing and some do NOT. Here is an article I wrote for a magazine several years ago when I was shooting LOTS of Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Silhouette. Emmert's is a dandy home made lube for black powder AND smokeless powder use (it was actually developed by Buck Emmert for smokeless Schuetzen rifles). Emmert's is 50% pure natural beeswax, 40% Crisco, and 10% Canola oil. Later, I replaced the Canola Oil with Anhydrous Lanolin for longer shelf life. Prior to that, the lube on lubed bullets would slightly deteriorate when stored in a garage over the winter. The original Emmert's was good, the "improved" Emmert's was better (at least as good on the target but with longer shelf life on the bullets).

Emmert's is similar to the commercial black powder lube, SPG, but costs just a fraction of that amount. It works perfectly when pan lubing and runs through a lube sizer without issue. It does NOT require heating. The only possible issue, is that it is soft and melts at a rather low temperature. I never had any problems with it in hot weather but if left in a car trunk without protection, it is possible to have problems at elevated temps (NRA 50/50 melted on me and killed primers when loaded rounds were exposed to direct sun in an ammo box at well over 100 degrees for about twenty minutes, as an example). When I went to matches over a weekend when it was hot, I just stored my bullets and loaded rounds in a cooler (no ice as the cooler would cool over night and protected the bullets and loaded rounds nicely from the extreme heat during the day). Understand, a car in 100 degree temps can reach 135 degrees during the day (babies and dogs have died when left in a closed car in hot weather).

Mr. Snover's comments are directly on point. His experience with Black Powder Cartridge Rifles is of a VERY high level, by the way.

Here is a link to my original article on Cast Pics;
http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/the-library/bullet-lubes/313-pan-lubing-piece-of-cake

Dale

Thanks for the link..great read

[Dale53]

Lablover;
Glad to be of service!:mrgreen:

Dale