fun with the model 94

[atr]

I got out this morning a went through a couple of boxes of 180gr RN cast in my 1930's vintage 30-30.
IT WAS FUN !!!!
even with the open sights, and my bad eyes, at 100 yds (using sticks) I was pretty consistent breaking clays.

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[Hick]

Great!-- it IS lots of fun-- I 'waste' a lot of time at the range playing with my Model 94's using cast at very reasonable velocities-- they just love to hit those targets.

[TXGunNut]

Those old guns are shooters! They're real crowd-pleasers as well, sometimes looks like we robbed a museum when my shooting buddy and I bring out the old leverguns.

[Scharfschuetze]

I just love out shooting the plastic and scope crowds on steel targets at longer ranges with old rifles, particularly leverguns.

[olafhardt]

Contrary to what some think the Winchester 94 in 30-30 is the best centerfire rifle ever made. It was used by the Normans to defeat the Viet Cong at the battle of Hastings. One was carried to the moon by the Apollo astronauts. The Texans uused it to defeat Napoleon at Gettysburg. It is so well balanced that Russian gymnasts are using them to enhance their performances.

[stubbicatt]

Neat. Sounds like a really good time. I too went out to the Forest Service and set up some clays to get a rough zero for silhouettes. Shot 180 grain RCBS bullet over 15 grains of IMR4227, which is quickly becoming my favorite cast bullet propellant. Only difference is, the range wasn't quite so far, maybe 35 yards. Still it is a lot of fun.

[T-Bird]

Olafhardt, that's one of the funniest short pieces I've ever read.

[northmn]

I have a 357 and a 32-20 bought back when, but admit that a 94 would be as handy with reloads as either one. I carry both on a tractor when out in the woods and fields. With a good receiver sight they can be adjusted for both light and heavy loads. Of course back then I just had to have both calibers but after the novelty has worn off I admit I could have bought a used 94 cheaper. Practical is great but I admit to a little bit of fun experimenting. With hardcast the 150 grain can be good on small stuff and with a decent load the 180 will take a deer handily. Experience doing both.

DP

[OverMax]

Way to go old timer. Levering lead thru a 94. Pour yourself a cup of coffee ATR on me. You earned it. >Damn fine shot you are. (:

[merlin101]

Contrary to what some think the Winchester 94 in 30-30 is the best centerfire rifle ever made. It was used by the Normans to defeat the Viet Cong at the battle of Hastings. One was carried to the moon by the Apollo astronauts. The Texans uused it to defeat Napoleon at Gettysburg. It is so well balanced that Russian gymnasts are using them to enhance their performances.

I had no idea! thanks for the history lesson:)

[Blackwater]

Good on all you guys who use old guns and irons to show some of these new "tactical" oriented wannabes a lesson that it's HOW you use a gun, and not which gun you choose, that separates the men from the boys. There's a growing ethic among newer shooters that if you can go out and pop a few caps, and hit some big target you've brought in slow, deliberate fire, that you're "good to go" for hunting, self defense, or anything else. T'ain't necessarily so, though. But don't try to tell them that. That's regarded as some sort of malicious insult rather than helpfulness. So ..... they never seem to learn to get any better. As we get older, we often find that our greatest assets with guns is our familiarity with them and some really grooved habits and muscle memory that lingers on with us as our vision, speed and thus, our ultimate accuracy tends to wane. But give a good ol' phart a good rifle and good, proven loads, and it's really pretty easy to outshoot most of these young shooters. So many of them just bang off masses of ammo in rapid fire, and are happy to hit a refrigerator box at 25 or 50 yds. And then they wonder how us ol' pharts can place our bullets seemingly at will. It's an amazing transformation among American shooters that I can't see coming to anything good, and yeah, it kind'a worries me. But we ol' pharts have surely had our day, and some wonderful times. If they choose otherwise, I guess that's their prerogative. It's still sad to us ol' pharts, though, to see it happening, when it's so easy to get good with a ilttle thought and some challenging, focused and purposeful practice. In fact, it's hard NOT to get consistently better each outing if we think about how we practice, and challenge ourselves regularly. Practicing the fundamentals by dry firing is probably the best and cheapest and fastest way to master the basics of marksmanship, but learning to really use a gun, and exercise good and quick judgment just doesn't come from shooting bullseyes in a calm, deliberate manner. Initial efforts to get to be quick and fast and fast with repeat shots proved very challenging to me, and today, many (especially the younger ones) seem to HATE showing that they're not "perfect" at everything they do (and they hate admitting that, or that they make mistakes). That's no way to approach practice! Initial efforts at speed need to focus on safety, but when you finally get to a point that you're willing to risk shooting yourself in the butt on the draw, and similar stuff, and think you can handle it, live fire is the only way to close the circle and get really good. An awful lot of judgment and realistic evaluation of our readiness, skills and lack thereof, is called for, and that is the humbling part. Conditioning that trigger finger to start toward the trigger ONLY after the gun is clear of the leather and is coming up to the target is the most critical part in not shooting yourself while learning this. I never got nearly as good as a lot of guys, and probably would never have been able to, but I got plenty fast and accurate over time, even with unaimed fire. And all it took was consistent practice, honesty about my faults and abilities, and a sense of appreciation for good, serious challenges I'd set for myself. Sure kept practice sessions interesting, too, and when we challenge ourselves and learn to succeed, how could it not become VERY satisfying?

But today, everybody's in a hurry, and most have convinced themselves that they can just "buy" a good game by getting the latest super duper wonder gun and some of the cheapest ammo, and go shoot it a lot, and presto/changeo, they're real "shootists." I have yet to see one succeed, but dont try to tell them that! They "redefine" the term "good" to fit whatever they're able to do so their egos don't have to withstand any challenges, I guess?

As I get older, and become more crotchety, it kind'a irks me when I see these young folks leaving the range when they get showed up. A few haughty comments from some of these self-possessed spray and pray types, and I tend to get some pleasure in showing them how to hit small targets at ranges they can't hit with their rifles. That's shameful, I know, but it's awfully hard to fight off that tendency. And they DO need to realize that it takes a lot more than just bragadociousness and lots of cheap ammo to hit targets or stop bad guys. (shrug) I guess it's my favorite vice, really, if the Truth be told?

[HABCAN]

Blackwater, Sir, you have just said it ALL!! Your 'essay' parallels my recent experiences exactly. Thank you, from another old phart.

[Scharfschuetze]

Yep, well said.

Hopefully, over the years, I've had some positive impact with teaching two generations of Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts basic marksmanship as well as numerous students as a hunter safety instructor and youth hunting guide. Most, but not all, have the potential to join us on the range or in the field at any time as good shooters and sportsmen. Sadly, they are probably in the minority of their generations.

[KLR]

Contrary to what some think the Winchester 94 in 30-30 is the best centerfire rifle ever made. It was used by the Normans to defeat the Viet Cong at the battle of Hastings. One was carried to the moon by the Apollo astronauts. The Texans uused it to defeat Napoleon at Gettysburg. It is so well balanced that Russian gymnasts are using them to enhance their performances.

Great post! [smilie=l:

[woodbutcher]

:bigsmyl2: Hi olafhardt.You Sir are a treasure.Thanks for a great post.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safre.
Leo

[joatmon]

I can do well on the clays myself as long as they go straight away or left to right, can't do worth a flip right to left!
Aaron

[CGT80]

As of four years ago, I had never shot a lever action rifle. My grandfather had one in the safe and it was his deer rifle, before the 30-06 bolt gun. As of right now, I have a gun club hat with around 15 pins on it from using his old deer rifle to shoot silhouette matches at our range. Every time I get another pin, I stop by and show him what his old deer rifle did.

It is a win 94 from around 1973. I cast a saeco 315 plain base that drops out at 181.5 grains on average and I load them over 9.6 grains of herco shotgun powder. Right now we are limited to 100 yards for our range and my grandfather never dreamed of making light loads for the rifles, or pistols. Other shooting buddies have let me try various rifles, including 45 colt, 357, 45/70, 40/60, and 45/100 lever guns.................but grandpas win 94 in 30-30 is still my favorite and it feels like an old pal when I shoulder the short 16" barrel and let off one of those soft loads at 1300 fps. 20 years ago, as a teen, the full power 30-06 loads in a bolt gun were no problem, but my body just doesn't like the punishment anymore.

That old 94 may not be a highly sought after pre 64 model, but to me it is priceless.

My other favorite rifle is a Win 54 that was made in 1926, from what I can tell, and is chambered in 30-06. It was the deer gun used by my other grandfather (born in 1900 and die before I was born) when he hunted from horseback.

PS. I also shoot 3 gun with a fancy black rifle in 5.56 and a matching one in 9mm, and I use a plastic pistol for 3 gun and action pistol. However, my range toy is a Smith 460 xvr 8 3/8", and also a Ruger MKIII Hunter 6 7/8". Grandpas old M1 carbine comes out to the range once in a while, as well. Today I was at the range, but it work for work, as I volunteer as Sergent at Arms, and head of a couple committees and the range PRIDE volunteer coordinator. Someone once said I had an old soul and that I was a bit different than other people my age. I don't know about that...........but I have been bitten by some kind of shooting sports bug.

[atr]

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what really impresses me about these old rifles is the craftsmanship, wood to metal fit-up.
this rifle was the one I learned to hunt deer with.
atr

[rpludwig]

three 94's here, 1902, 1947, 1955, an 1876, (and a trapdoor & a Colt Lighting) are my favorites as of late...all the modern stuff generally stays put in the safe, and no plastic guns allowed. Really enjoy the old timers and older cartridges....most are still more accurate than I am...

Blackwater....well said, great post...and good thread here!

[stubbicatt]

what really impresses me about these old rifles is the craftsmanship, wood to metal fit-up.
this rifle was the one I learned to hunt deer with.
atr

I really do think that the old timers had a different concept of quality. I think that quality was designed into products as more a suitability for a particular use. I dearly love my old Winchesters. That I truly do. They were built to last, just as they left the factory. I think the modern rifles have a different view of things, where wearing parts are more readily accessible and more readily replaced, perhaps. In some instances, with modern rifles such as a Savage, one can even make adjustments to accommodate wearing parts to some extent.

I've read in either a Handloader, or maybe it was Precision Shooting, magazine a long while ago, where someone compared bore and rifling wear in a couple revolvers, from shooting cast bullets to shooting jacketed bullets, and unsurprisingly, the cast bullet bores lasted significantly longer. Too, maybe it was ASSRA forum, I don't remember now, where an old Schuetzen rifle was gaged back in the day after 10,000 rounds through it, and only .0001" wear was measured at the muzzle. If we continue to shoot our cast projectiles, and use careful cleaning techniques, we can extend the life of these old bang sticks quite a little bit.

[griffiga]

I regularly shoot my 94 (its actually a model 64 rifle with the half magazine) with 170 grain cast at around 1500 fps, in fact a few years ago I took that very combination on the doe hunt. I shot one at about 125 yards and she went right down. No recoil, very little noise - heck, if I didn't have any scruples to me, I'd say it would make a good poaching gun. Guns that I can shoot with cast bullets and muzzle loaders are about all I shoot anymore - jacketed bullets are getting too expensive.

[dikman]

Not just the 94, I think we all know that there is something "special" about owning and shooting a lever gun (particularly an old one). Shooting these things, for me, is not about sheer accuracy (although that's a bonus, I guess) there's just an indefinable feeling I get when handling one - it just feels right.

And makes me feel superior to the non-lever shooters :bigsmyl2:.