Lee C358-158-SWC at rifle velocities

[boise outlaw]

Wondering if anyone has experience with this gas checked boolit at rifle velocities, I'm currently using some plated 158's in my m77 350 Rem Mag behind 60 grains of IMR 4064, think its pushing about 2700 fps or so. I would like to switch to a cast even if i have to dial back the powder a bit.

Also I am looking for an Alliant Unique load for the 158 as well, have consulted several reloading books but most of them dont go below 200 grain for my rifle.

[runfiverun]

use the 200gr unique data, about 10grs is enough to get some real good speed from a 158gr boolit.

I doubt your gonna get the LEE boolit up into the 2700 fps area, and I'm somewhat surprised at the plated stuff doing well at that velocity too.
I have pushed some plated rifle boolits up pretty far, but 2700 would be 3-400 further than I got back then.
I'd look at the rcbs 200gr rifle boolit for this endeavor [unless your zapping ground squirrels for the fun of it]
then target about 23-2400 fps with it.
that's plenty good for deer and such over distance [but not so good up close] but they are accurate enough for rocks and stuff off-hand and will shoot good groups on paper too.
if your gonna deer hunt then I'd switch to the saeco #248 which is @250grs, has a much smaller meplat, will handle 23-2400 fps easily, and will make a deer flip-flop without tearing up all the meat.

[MarkP]

I have shot the Lee 158 WFN (plain base) to 1,350 fps for a nice accurate load in my 350's (1:16") I have pushed the NOE 180gr WFN with gas check to over 2,000 fps with decent accuracy. The Lee and the NOE have a similar metplat and profile however the Lee is non gas check. I normally shoot the NOE 180's at - 1,800 ish.

I have shot the 200 gr RCBS to 2,500 - 2,600 and maintained accuracy. I have a 273 & 247 gr mold and shot the 273 to about 2,300.

I did shoot some 180 gr Hornady SSPB with a load similar to yours (60 grs) several years ago, decent accuracy but it had an incredible muzzle blast out of the my XP100.

[boise outlaw]

thanks all, that 10 grains unique over the 158 is my standard plinking load, but was wondering what the velocity is and trying to determine a maximum grain/velocity.

I'd like to use the 158 over 4064 for deer and smaller game and plinking at longer distances. I use the 280 grain lyman 358009 over 50 grains of 4064 for my big game hunting load, which pushes about 2000 fps. Right now at 100 yards this round drops 4" below the plated 158's, so i'm thinking that with a cast boolit dialed back a little I should be able to make them drop at the same spot.

So i can assume that a velocity of say 2200 FPS is a reasonable expectation for the C358-158-SWC?

[quilbilly]

I used that boolit regularly at velocities of about 1900 fps in my 357 max carbine with good results until I got one of the new 200 gr molds from Lee. Now it is unlikely I will use that 158 SWC GC mold and just stick to the 200 at 1700 fps for light bear hunting and one of my plain base molds for small game and targets.

[MarkP]

thanks all, that 10 grains unique over the 158 is my standard plinking load, but was wondering what the velocity is and trying to determine a maximum grain/velocity.

I'd like to use the 158 over 4064 for deer and smaller game and plinking at longer distances. I use the 280 grain lyman 358009 over 50 grains of 4064 for my big game hunting load, which pushes about 2000 fps. Right now at 100 yards this round drops 4" below the plated 158's, so i'm thinking that with a cast boolit dialed back a little I should be able to make them drop at the same spot.

So i can assume that a velocity of say 2200 FPS is a reasonable expectation for the C358-158-SWC?
I would think so, I may load some 180 WFN's up to 2,200+ (shoot over a chrono) and report back.

9.0 gr of Red dot under the LEE 158 I got 1,300 fps (20" bbl 1:16") and 13.0 gr SR 7625 under the NOE 180 gr WFN - 1,400 fps.
I would guess your 10 gr load would be close to 1,300 fps +/-.

[rockrat]

Don't have the Lee mould, but have shot the 358156 Lyman mould to about 2500fps. Groups were about 3" @100yds

[Lonegun1894]

I have pushed the Lee .358" 158gr SWCGC to 2150fps out of a Rossi .357 Mag 20" 1:30" ROT, and got good accuracy, but slowed it down to 1850ish for my hunting load. Back then I was trying to see how fast I could push it before I got pressure signs or lost accuracy, but stopped before I reached either point. Guess I just chickened out, or grew a brain (through no fault of my own). For what it's worth, that same rifle will push a Lee 158gr RNFP (no GC) to the same velocity without leading too, so I think I just got lucky, but don't need that kind of velocity from this rifle so don't push it that hard anymore.

[boise outlaw]

I have pushed the Lee .358" 158gr SWCGC to 2150fps out of a Rossi .357 Mag 20" 1:30" ROT, and got good accuracy, but slowed it down to 1850ish for my hunting load. Back then I was trying to see how fast I could push it before I got pressure signs or lost accuracy, but stopped before I reached either point. Guess I just chickened out, or grew a brain (through no fault of my own). For what it's worth, that same rifle will push a Lee 158gr RNFP (no GC) to the same velocity without leading too, so I think I just got lucky, but don't need that kind of velocity from this rifle so don't push it that hard anymore.

what powder was this with? I have a marlin 1894c 357 that i will be working up a hunting load for as well with these boolits

[Lonegun1894]

It was with 2400, but please reconsider trying to copy it. The 1892 action has been used for cartidges that slightly exceed 60K CUP, while the Marlin 1894, Marlin 336, Winchester 1894, and similar actions are usually limited to around 40-45K CUP based on what I have read. And I am 100% sure that I was well beyond anything SAAMI ever even considered approving for the .357 Mag.

The lack of leading was due to the 1:30" twist being so gentle on the cast bullet, for what that's worth. I wasn't to say your Marlin should be around 1:18" twist, IIRC.

[boise outlaw]

It was with 2400, but please reconsider trying to copy it. The 1892 action has been used for cartidges that slightly exceed 60K CUP, while the Marlin 1894, Marlin 336, Winchester 1894, and similar actions are usually limited to around 40-45K CUP based on what I have read. And I am 100% sure that I was well beyond anything SAAMI ever even considered approving for the .357 Mag.

The lack of leading was due to the 1:30" twist being so gentle on the cast bullet, for what that's worth. I wasn't to say your Marlin should be around 1:18" twist, IIRC.


Thanks! i had not known there was a difference with the CUP with the lever guns. I'm not gonna run the 1894 too hot, say 1600-1800 fps for some deer and smaller game loads. Would really like to develop a 1" MOA @ 100 for her. I have not branched outside of Unique and 4064 as far as powders go, would like to start experimenting with some trailboss and 2400 next. I've also heard of LilGun being a good option but never run across it. The gas checked 158 seems like the ideal boolit to develop loads for in all my 35 cals.

[Lonegun1894]

I don't know all the hows and whys of how they rate them, but yours should be able to get to 1800fps easily, and from what I keep reading here, you should be able to get more with Lilgun or H110 than what 2400 will do. For what it's worth, I have killed several deer and a lot of hogs with a 4" Security Six that I load to around 1150-1200fps with a 158gr SWC, and it does just fine, so the higher velocities are just for a flatter trajectory when you really get to thinking about it. And that stupid load with the 1892 was just to see how fast I could get it before I got pressure signs, and was a stupid project I never should have done, but did learn a bit from. You know how it is when you're young and dumb and believe all the gun rags that say you need velocity above all else.

[boise outlaw]

i'm still young and dumb, but definitely trying to learn before i make those mistakes. I have a 4" security six thats killed plenty of grouse and rattlers, I make a shotshell load with with 4 grains of unique, wad, pellets, and a 105 grain SWC to top it off. I load up the plated 158s over 8 grains of unique for that and the sp101 if we encounter anything bigger. Lots of bear, wolf, and cougar where we are at.

[quilbilly]

One of the reasons that I switched from the 158 SWC-GC at 1900 FPS to the 200 gr RNFP-GC at 1700 FPS, both from Lee, was my terminal ballistics tests at 40 yards. At those muzzle velocities the 158 was getting about 8-9" of penetration while the 200 was getting 20" even with the lower velocity. I thought that necessary for the close up bear hunting usually done in my area with 50 yards being a long shot. My favorite plinking boolit in the carbine is the Lee 150 gr RNPB at 1350 FPS which has a point of aim close enough to the others at 50 yards that sights don't have to be touched. One of the reasons I have kept my MV's lower is that my carbine is so light weight that the vibration (not recoil) is quite unpleasant at higher velocities.

[boise outlaw]

One of the reasons that I switched from the 158 SWC-GC at 1900 FPS to the 200 gr RNFP-GC at 1700 FPS, both from Lee, was my terminal ballistics tests at 40 yards. At those muzzle velocities the 158 was getting about 8-9" of penetration while the 200 was getting 20" even with the lower velocity. I thought that necessary for the close up bear hunting usually done in my area with 50 yards being a long shot. My favorite plinking boolit in the carbine is the Lee 150 gr RNPB at 1350 FPS which has a point of aim close enough to the others at 50 yards that sights don't have to be touched. One of the reasons I have kept my MV's lower is that my carbine is so light weight that the vibration (not recoil) is quite unpleasant at higher velocities.

hows that 200 grain perform out of a pistol for a hunting load? I'm trying to find one GC boolit that will perform across all platforms, 350 rem mag, 357 Lever, 357 Pistol. Will the 200 load into a 357 case just fine or is it one of those special deals where i need to seat it in a 38 case with a 357 OAL?

[Lonegun1894]

I'm curious about that 200gr boolit too. Just bought the mold but haven't had a chance to try it yet. Only problem is that it won't stabilize in my Rossi's 1:30" twist, but should be interesting to play with in my revolvers and Contender.