Printers type.

[triggerhappy243]

What is a fair price to pay for a 50 pound box of printers type. Has some spacers mixed in. Type is still in the raw.

[Yodogsandman]

About $2 per pound, now.

[Scooby]

I just bought 100# of mixed mono and lino for $100. I guess it just depends where you are, and what the current market is.

[RogerDat]

The going rate is around $2 a pound. Can find it for less but will generally be a face to face, possibly a local price based on lead scrap prices. Buying from the national market it runs around $2, but there is some variability in what "printers lead" is. Different classes of type were different composition. Lino, Mono, and Foundry won't generally be huge difference in price but they can be different. Of those 3 Linotype would probably be the one that cost the least. Foundry the most, and might be more than $2 per pound. See this list of alloy compositions or check out the values for Sn & Sb in the alloy calculator.

It can be worth sorting the type and spacers then melting the spacers into a big batch. That way spacers are your only "unknown" alloy. Single letters and linotype can be identified by shape. Spacers can be anything but sometimes they are really good alloy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_metal

[bangerjim]

Two bucks is a bit on the high side - - if there is a large ratio of spacers. As Roger said, they can be anything.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If I were buying,
I wouldn't pay more than $1 per lb for the spacers....cuz you don't know what they are precisely and are only worth scrap.

I'd think $2 per lb is a fair price for confirmed linotype alloy.
Good luck,
Jon

[durango]

I generally don't like to engage in these threads regarding what is and what isn't, but since I'm a seller on this site and have invested time and money in trying to justify my pricing and marketing, I feel compelled to weigh into this discussion.

I sell my lino and spacers mixed together for $2.00/lb. I have had samples xrayed and my findings were as follows: (lead/tin/antimony)--Lino typeset-no spacers= 84/2.5/12.1---Spacers only-84/3.2/11.4---mixed-lino & spacers-84.7/2.7/11.75.

Now---I am not a chemist or metallurgist or a printer-just a shooter who sells lead to finance my shooting addiction and has average intelligence. Here are my thoughts about why my findings contradict what a lot of people claim about the composition of the spacers vs the type set: The lino was reclaimed and melted over and over for years and years, thereby losing some of the elements that are desirable such as tin and antimony. The spacers were removed from the plates and reused as is without the continuous melting, thereby retaining the tin and antimony. These practices have been observed in small local newspapers and jobber printers for years and the lino that is available now is what is left from these little shops--the big guys dumped off their lead years ago.

For what it's worth, packing lino/spacers is a real pain, and if I had to sort it before packing, I would double my price. My preferred way to sell is in ingot form, but, due to what I believe is the misconception of the factors above, buyers are leery and are unwilling to buy the ingots--Too bad for all of us!!!

Steve

[gwpercle]

Thanks for the info on linotype and spacers Steve . .
When a friend went out of the printing business years ago he gave me a small box of type and a large box of spacers, various strips of different thickness but with no letters. I wasn't sure of the composition , they are bright and shiny and I just used them as I would linotype . my unscientific mix is 5 lbs of lead, 5 lbs of COWW and add 1 lb of spacers. This is used for cast handguns and 1600 to 1800 fps rifle loads. I'm not sure what this works out to as for hardness but my guns do well with it. accurate and no leading , so I stick with it. I'm going to write your findings down in case I become better at math to try figure out what my seat of the pants, unscientific , mix is. Maybe I'm putting to much spacer in and could get by with 1/2 lb.

Gary

[BNE]

I generally don't like to engage in these threads regarding what is and what isn't, but since I'm a seller on this site and have invested time and money in trying to justify my pricing and marketing, I feel compelled to weigh into this discussion.

I sell my lino and spacers mixed together for $2.00/lb. I have had samples xrayed and my findings were as follows: (lead/tin/antimony)--Lino typeset-no spacers= 84/2.5/12.1---Spacers only-84/3.2/11.4---mixed-lino & spacers-84.7/2.7/11.75.

Now---I am not a chemist or metallurgist or a printer-just a shooter who sells lead to finance my shooting addiction and has average intelligence. Here are my thoughts about why my findings contradict what a lot of people claim about the composition of the spacers vs the type set: The lino was reclaimed and melted over and over for years and years, thereby losing some of the elements that are desirable such as tin and antimony. The spacers were removed from the plates and reused as is without the continuous melting, thereby retaining the tin and antimony. These practices have been observed in small local newspapers and jobber printers for years and the lino that is available now is what is left from these little shops--the big guys dumped off their lead years ago.

For what it's worth, packing lino/spacers is a real pain, and if I had to sort it before packing, I would double my price. My preferred way to sell is in ingot form, but, due to what I believe is the misconception of the factors above, buyers are leery and are unwilling to buy the ingots--Too bad for all of us!!!

Steve

I concur.

[alamogunr]

I had some Monotype tested by a member here. The results were:

Sn=6.9% Sb=16.7 Pb= 74.4% Cu= 1.4% (I rounded off so don't add to 100%)

Since I know what it is, I will use those numbers to alloy with my WW.

He also analyzed some 40/60 solder I had salvaged and knew would be tin poor because it had been in a large solder pot that ran continuously. results were:

Sn= 23.4% Pb= 76% Cu= .6%

Significant enough to make the analysis worth it. I knew it would be lacking in tin but didn't know it would be that much. It doesn't really matter because I have quite a bit of it.

[bangerjim]

Linotype spacers (Correctly called called "leading", not spacers....see below) can be of any alloy the maker had. Some I have are commercially made, are brand new in oroginal factory bundles, and come in at around 10-14. That is all the hardness needed for maintaining the space between the "lines-o-type" for the print job. They do not pound on the paper many times and do not need to be that hard. Some large shops made thier own spacers (from exhausted lino metal) and they can be 9-12 or so. I have some of those also.

So unless you x-ray every single strip of leading lead, you do not know what it really is.

The spacers (those hunks of lead that go between individuals words built up with letters) used for foundry and mono are generally as hard as the type letter blocks themselves.

I actually use mono and foundry and leading and spacers to print with my antique printing presses. And in my hot foil embossing/stamping machines.


Happy type hunting!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I generally don't like to engage in these threads regarding what is and what isn't, but since I'm a seller on this site and have invested time and money in trying to justify my pricing and marketing, I feel compelled to weigh into this discussion.

I sell my lino and spacers mixed together for $2.00/lb. I have had samples xrayed and my findings were as follows: (lead/tin/antimony)--Lino typeset-no spacers= 84/2.5/12.1---Spacers only-84/3.2/11.4---mixed-lino & spacers-84.7/2.7/11.75.

Now---I am not a chemist or metallurgist or a printer-just a shooter who sells lead to finance my shooting addiction and has average intelligence. Here are my thoughts about why my findings contradict what a lot of people claim about the composition of the spacers vs the type set: The lino was reclaimed and melted over and over for years and years, thereby losing some of the elements that are desirable such as tin and antimony. The spacers were removed from the plates and reused as is without the continuous melting, thereby retaining the tin and antimony. These practices have been observed in small local newspapers and jobber printers for years and the lino that is available now is what is left from these little shops--the big guys dumped off their lead years ago.

For what it's worth, packing lino/spacers is a real pain, and if I had to sort it before packing, I would double my price. My preferred way to sell is in ingot form, but, due to what I believe is the misconception of the factors above, buyers are leery and are unwilling to buy the ingots--Too bad for all of us!!!

Steve
Steve,
That's Great info, I don't doubt anything you say about your alloy or test results.

My previous statement was based on my experience with my one and only purchase of three USPS MFR boxes of Linotype in the raw. The spacers that were mixed in, were long lines, the same shape as the lines with words/letters on them. I will say that was near the beginning of my casting hobby, so I was a newbie. Anyway, as I smelted them all together, I noticed that the "Type" would break when I bent then to fit the smelting pot, and the "spacers" would bend and not brake. Also the spacers looked commercially cast as in sharp edges whereas the "type" had more rounded edges and a crystalline look. Years later, as I use portions of this batch of about 150lbs (that I mixed and smelted into ingots...and now feel that was a mistake) for blending with other alloys to make 94-3-3, I end up with varying hardness results.

I suspect the spacers, as opposed to the other alloys, which I won't go into here and now. I could be wrong, as I haven't had anything scanned and don't care to. Now I just use that batch of linotype for sweetening and a more recent purchase of Monotype for precise alloy blending.
Jon

[triggerhappy243]

This is getting interesting. So the spacers are a much different alloy then the type itself. let me propose my hypothetical plan here then. I would smelt the type down into ingots. Then do the same with the spacers..... then have them shot with the xrf gun to check out its content. Until I know exactly what the makeup is, I cannot do the math needed to get the balance I want for the boolits I would cast for pistol or centerfire rifle.

[bangerjim]

This is getting interesting. So the spacers are a much different alloy then the type itself. let me propose my hypothetical plan here then. I would smelt the type down into ingots. Then do the same with the spacers..... then have them shot with the xrf gun to check out its content. Until I know exactly what the makeup is, I cannot do the math needed to get the balance I want for the boolits I would cast for pistol or centerfire rifle.

You got it, pardner! If.....IF.....you want to split hairs on hardness. Most do not get down in the weeds that deep anymore. Just melt the lino ( I keep ALL my lino in it's native format to prove it IS lino! I NEVER ingotize it.) and treat the leading spacer strips as 10 or so and NOT high Sn/Sb content. If they bend and do not (Crystallize) break as mentioned above, they are NOT lino alloy.

The spacer strips CAN and ARE different many times. Is it enough to loose sleep over? It is totally up to you & your needs.

Just don't get wrapped up in the math! Hardness is not that critical these days....FIT IS KING.

bangerjim

[RogerDat]

This is getting interesting. So the spacers are a much different alloy then the type itself. let me propose my hypothetical plan here then. I would smelt the type down into ingots. Then do the same with the spacers..... then have them shot with the xrf gun to check out its content. Until I know exactly what the makeup is, I cannot do the math needed to get the balance I want for the boolits I would cast for pistol or centerfire rifle.

Yep this is exactly correct for the spacers. Melt into one big batch, if too much for one batch then make multiple batches and cross mix ingot equally between the batches and re-melt. Your goal is to get the unknown spacer lead into ingots of consistent alloy. Still unknown BUT once you get one or two gunned you will know the others from this batch of spacers are the same composition. Spacer can be plain soft lead or foundry type, and everything in between. If you are lucky enough to score a bucket of them they will often be a total mix of alloys, that is why cross mixing to get it consistent is required.

I had some spacers, they turned out to be very good alloy, closer to foundry type than linotype according to the XRF gun test done of the ingots at our local scrap yard. Took a little while to get them sold, I think one person after getting them was nice enough to comment on the quality in the S&S post and that encouraged others that it was ok to buy at a type metal price. Like 1.5 times the Sn and 1.5 times the Sb of plain Linotype. Saw an ingot of some spacer lead recently that I had gunned that came in at Sb of 17.5 and Sn of 7.8 so in the neighborhood of stereo type or mono type. Good bit over the Linotype 12 Sb and 4 Sn.

Now Linotype in strips with letters is a "known" product, as are single letters. These you would want to keep in the raw form until use. For yourself there is doubt what is in that bucket of letters when you go to make some bullets. For selling it can be a whole lot easier to sell "type" that is in an identifiable form than in homemade ingots.

A person with an established reputation might well consider selling type metal in ingot form since it is easier to pack but the only thing that "backs" that ingot being the alloy stated is the person selling it. If it is print spacer lead I would really want to do one big batch then get some samples gunned. Like I said I have had some that was pretty close to Linotype, other that came out closer to foundry. Hate to waste it or sell the foundry as "lino spacers" of unknown quality for less than the alloy is worth.

[alamogunr]

Look at my post #10. The supposed monotype apparently had been used hard. I'm not overly concerned since I can't tell the difference in WW w/tin and WW w/mono if they both cast the same. I plan to use the spreadsheet put up by bumpo628:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?105952-Lead-alloy-calculators

As I understand it, we need to avoid our tin content exceeding the antimony content. It has been mentioned many times here that
Lyman #2 is a waste of tin although it does make good boolits. One well known alloy for boolits is 2% tin, 6% antimony, 92% lead. I understand this is what a lot of commercial casters use. I have a commercial caster nearby. I will ask him what he buys.

There are a lot of spacers in my boxes of monotype. They are easily bendable. I assume from what I have read that they are not even close to monotype. I may separate them out and cast ingots. Maybe even get it analyzed to satisfy my own curiosity.

I hate to think what misinformation I might be operating with if I were not a member here.

[RogerDat]

Lyman #2 is a waste of alloy for most uses but it is "balanced" in terms of Sn 5 / Sb 5 and you can dip me in dog poo and complain I stink it does make some really pretty bullets. Has the same BHN hardness as your 2/6/92 which is known as Hardball. Both are pushing the upper end of hardness one will typically need. Heck you can cut the Lyman #2 with plain lead 50/50 and it will still be really good alloy for most pistol bullets and many moderate rifle loads too.

There is also water dropping / heat treating for additional hardness or powder coating your bullets if the lead would be too soft an alloy to handle the velocity without some help. I think alloy mix is easier to control than water dropping but people use WD with success. Heat treating in the oven is a more controllable option, need the oven you can use without contaminating food. I'm using Lyman #2 for some .223 that are going out of a fast twist rifle. That and powder coating to avoid crud or lead clogging the gas ports/plunger. Some plain base 303 British I also make using #2 alloy. The first one 10 lbs. makes a thousand and the second 5 lbs. make all I will likely need for the year.

[alamogunr]

Lyman #2 is a waste of alloy for most uses but it is "balanced" in terms of Sn 5 / Sb 5 and you can dip me in dog poo and complain I stink it does make some really pretty bullets. Has the same BHN hardness as your 2/6/92 which is known as Hardball. Both are pushing the upper end of hardness one will typically need. Heck you can cut the Lyman #2 with plain lead 50/50 and it will still be really good alloy for most pistol bullets and many moderate rifle loads too.



Sort of confirms that tin doesn't add much to hardness. I've never actually used either Lyman #2 or "Hardball", at least none that was identified as such.

PM coming your way.

[bangerjim]

Sort of confirms that tin doesn't add much to hardness. I've never actually used either Lyman #2 or "Hardball", at least none that was identified as such.

PM coming your way.

Sn does NOT add to hardness....hardly at all. Sn is for reducing the surface teneion of liquid alloy to give better mold fill-out. I always use 2% Sn in all my alloys. No more is needed and is a waste of an expensive metal.

Use Sb for hardness increase.

banger

[RogerDat]

I had 60# of spacers sorted them by how easily they would bend. Had them XRF gunned posted it here. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?281149-Gunned-Linotype-Spacers-YMMV&highlight=bendable+spacers+xrf

I was surprised by the results and while I can't claim that it proves what OP will have for his spacers which bend it does reinforce the notion of could be a wide range of alloys. Tin at 5% ratio (20:1 alloy) is used for old time cowboy bullets in those competitive shooting sports that require authentic ammo for Black Powder Cartridge (which is what 45 colt is) At lower velocity it makes the lead just enough harder to avoid leaded rifling.

But over all Banger is entirely correct tin adds little hardness. Especially compared to antimony. The better flow characteristics of having a bit of tin is significant. It breaks down surface tension, much as soap does in water and even a little soap makes a lot of difference in the surface tension of water. You will find that you can't get water with even a little soap to "crown up" higher than the sides of the glass. We used to float a needle on water using a little oil from side of the nose to help it float, tiny amount of soap on a finger would make the needle sink as soon as the soaped finger touched the surface those of you with kids or grandkids might find this little experiment fun is why I mention it.

Tin is also a sacrificial oxidant. It forms a thin oxide layer that to some extent prevents more of the the poured stream from combining with oxygen. And as mentioned it does alloy with the Sb to make a stronger material. There is one other thing it does, it makes bullets a bit more malleable. Little less likely to break and fracture. This can be useful in hollow point or hunting ammo where expansion is desired while avoiding bullet shattering on bone. Not speaking from experience but pretty well discussed by those that are casting those types of ammo. Me I mostly figure hollow point on a 45 in either Colt or ACP is probably a bit more anti-social than I will need to be. RFN at 230 gr. or over will pretty much keep home and hearth pretty secure. I also think this increased malleability is why spacers that were Linotype would bend without breaking.