wanting a 9mm handgun - thinking EAA

[trickyasafox]

So i've been mooching off my father's G17 for a bit too long. Time to start saving pennies for a 9mm of my own. I've heard you guys speak well of EAA / tangfolio- and went to check them out. The designs are very appealing so here is what I am thinking-

First- I live in a ban state (NY) do any pre-bans exist for any of the elite models of EAA or will I just live with 10 rounders?

Are spare magazines and parts readily available and affordable?

I like the Elite Stock model
http://www.eaacorp.com/handguns-witness-elite-stock-EI.html

The Witness Match also looks nice
http://www.eaacorp.com/handguns-witness-elite-match-EI.html

Do you guys have any experience with either model? What is the actual street price of these? is the elite worth the extra money- the MSRP is much higher.

I basically want a full size 9mm handgun that will see lots of range duty and not much else. I hope that some day I'll have the opportunity to do some IPSC/IDPA style shooting, or even pin shooting (basically I just wanna do any kind of speed shooting- my range doesn't offer much along these lines)

These guns seem kinda heavy so I doubt it'll get much time bumming around the woods- and honestly unless these things are unbelievable tack drivers I still think I'd rather the 22 for small game.

Function and comfort are paramount. I like to shoot my guns (usually with light loads). These will be fed with either the lee 124gr TL RN boolit, the lee 120gr TC standard lube groove, Lyman 135gr TC, or if I must the 105 SWC (I own the other 3 molds and would prefer not to have to buy another mold though). I'm thinking 4 and change grains of unique- real light- powder puff loads.

what say ye?

edited- as an after thought- these seem to be CZ style clones- are any parts or mags interchangable?

[Johnch]

A freind has the Stock model I believe ( I am sure if there is a differance in price , as he is cheap)
I have shot it a number of time
He shoots cast

It is not a tack driver , but it groups pretty well
But it might shoot better with a differnt load

I can't say a bad thing about it

Don't quote me on this
But I thought those were a CZ 75 clone
If so there are pre ban Hi cap's out there


I am just a Hi Power guy
I have 2 that were Hungaren made , Imported by KBI

John

[HeavyMetal]

Yes the EAA guns are a CZ clone. A double action CZ clone.

Now everyone of these I've seen has had the drop safety a la Smith & Wesson and the government M9.

Personally I think this type safety sucks! It's to hard to reach and when you do it automatically returns the gun to double action for the next shot.

I will then suggest the CZ 75! You can get this gun in a slightly later version with an Ambi safety plus it has the cocked and locked option. Several firms are making parts for this Bar Sto barrels is making an awsome replacement barrel for the CZ that will make it a tack driver.

I have a browning clone works O.K. but of the three 9's I own, Taurus 99, KBI Hi power clone and a Star Firestar the firestar gets the nod 99% of the time.

Why?

It's fairly accurate right from the box, it has ambi safety stock, and it's a handy size for carry.

Yes it only has a single stack mag however MAGAZINE CAPACITY IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR MARSKMENSHIP!

My suggestion is to look a bunch of these over, try a few if you can, and choose the one that shoots best for you!

[trickyasafox]

Thanks for the comments so far- I've fondled a cz and it did feel good. I think I partially just want something no body by me has. that whole 'unique' thing and all.

I'm starting to lean towards the match model- so if anyone owns one in 9mm i'd like to hear it.

tell ya what auto 9 felt good- the old SW model 39 (or was it a 639?) either way a shooting friend had a single stack sw 9mm that felt great and didn't break the bank. Glocks are nice- but I guess I just need some flair.

I gotta track down a cz75 style gun to try I think.

[Buckshot]

................My Witness in 38 Super was a great shooting piece from the git-go. I later bought the 45ACP conversion and it wouldn't shoot fer spit. Turns out the barrel was the issue (bore problems). True to my nature I fiddled aorund so much (forgetting, not wanting to deal with it at the moment, etc) it was almost 2 years before I decided to get another barrel. I couldn't bring myself to send the old one back at this late date and expect EAA to gracefully replace it.

The new barrel is a MUCH better shooter hen the other. While not on a par with the 38 Super yet, I will admit to more of the above metioned recrastination and dithering so far as load developement goes. Lets just say that as of now, the 45 ACP barrel is more accurate then a lot of others in that chambering I've seen fired.

http://www.fototime.com/557C501A8CF797A/standard.jpg

It's wearing the 45 ACP slide in the photo. It's carbon steel but has what they call the 'Starvel' finish. The 38 Super slide is above it. Takes about 15 seconds to go from one to the other.

..................Buckshot

[eljefe]

We just started selling a Sig 225 German police trade in that is a great value.
They are imported by Century arms, and you should be able to get one in NY.
It is being sold as a Sig P6.

They are a single stack single double action with the decocker lever on the side similar to the sig 226. I am selling them across the counter for $325, this is for the pistol, two mags and a leather police holster. It is a lot of gun for the money.

[trickyasafox]

Thanks for the heads up eljefe- I got to toy with a p226 and a mosquito a while backand frankly did not like the ergonomics. Sig makes good guns to be sure- but just didn't feel right.

Maybe I should try to track down a Hi-power clone. I hear good things about those.

[HeavyMetal]

Stick to the CZ, Hi power feel good but I've yet to find one that didn't have a trigger that sucked. They can be "fixed" but LOL you can buy a new gun for the cost!

[Ricochet]

Starvel was the name of the bright, silvery plating available on old Star pistols. :-D

[trickyasafox]

weren't you just talking about your star in another thread ricochet?

[robertbank]

I have the Tanfoglio "L" model. I have had the CZ 85. Both guns are extremely accurate out of the box. Both pistols have grips on them like no others. I have several 9MM guns and none have grips as well fitting as the CZ/Tanfoglios. The Tans are not known for the best trigger pulls out of the box. A lighter main spring helps considerably. The Tanfoglio Sport model comes with adjustable sights as does most of their models. The CZ 75 has fixed sights but I have yet to hear of one that did not should POA out of the box,

Either way you can't go wrong. I have heard the EAA service in the US is very poor compared to most so that might impact your decision.

Do some reading and check out the CZ Forum. Guys there should give you valuable information to help you on your way. Forum covers the CZ and al the clones.

Take Care

Bob
ps The Tanfoglio I own is my IDPA ESP gun, using the .40cal top end). I shoot 180 gr lead bullets through the polygonial barrel with no leading. 2.8 gr of Titegroup makes PF and is extremely accurate and with very little recoil.

[trickyasafox]

thanks robert! I've sat back and lurked czforums in the past- I just look here before reaching out.

most everything I want to do is 'been there done that' to a lot of people here- so I like to ask and learn what I can first :)

[Lloyd Smale]

theres alot of dedicated fans of the CZ guns and there clones. Ive shot a few and have allways been impressed. Its one gun you will rarely see badmouthed by anyone.

[Bret4207]

SWMBO has a 40 S+W Witness. I love that gun. Shoots good, feels great, heavy enough to soak up recoil without being "heavy", decent sights. I don't know about mags and such.

[Buckshot]

SWMBO has a 40 S+W Witness. I love that gun. Shoots good, feels great, heavy enough to soak up recoil without being "heavy", decent sights. I don't know about mags and such.

...........HA, mags :-). When I bought that Witness in 38 Super it came with one 18 round magazine. Not too long afterwards CA enacted their 10 round limit. Almost conincidentally I decided I wanted another 18 rounder. At one of the last big Los Angeles gun shows I hunted high and low. Everyone who had one wanted $150 for it (new). I then ran across a guy with a new one and he said he'd take $125, so I bought it.

Since the Assult weapon ban faded away you can get the hi-capacity mags for like $24 (but naturally not in CA). LEgal 10 round mags here run about the same $24 figure.

.................Buckshot

[trickyasafox]

yea buckshot I was a bit too young for the last ban- I was 10 when it went into effect. I couldn't really 'stock up' by the time it faded I was 20, and still couldn't stock up cause darn NY kept the ban!

[shotman]

tricky that sig is worth looking at change the grips and i think you will like it the other thing is many of the 9mm dont like cast boolets my sig dont care and shoots as good as jackets the take down is what i like NO tools and 5 sec rick

[9.3X62AL]

My CZ-75 is in 40 Short & Weak, but as Bret said of the model and its clones it has enough heft to soak up 40 caliber recoil. The 9mm version is REALLY pleasant to shoot--even the Euro-intensity loads (125 grainers @ 1250 FPS) are pretty docile in that steel-framed criiter. You could do a LOT worse than a CZ/clone.

Those SIG P-225s are a stone bargain--too bad they don't feel right for ya. If another 9mm was to find its way into the gun safe, it would be a model with single-column magazine. Guys and gals at my old agency ADORE the S&W Model 3913--there must be 200 of them among the deputies as off-duty/plainclothes apparel. I have shot several of these, and all were VERY accurate and quite reliable.

Last but not least--a 1911A1 variant in 9mm would suit me right to the ground. The bar-none most accurate out-of-the-box 9mm I have ever fired was a friend's Springfield Armory 9mm. Cast or jacketed, it just drove tacks--minimum tolerances on the bore (.355") and 1-16" twist rate brought out the caliber's accuracy, I imagine. A steel Commander-sized 1911A1 in 9mm would be hard for me to pass up, assuming of course that Das Boot didn't see a need for some new trinket or upgrade. It takes boat ownership to truly appreciate the relative cheapness of the shooting sports.

[Ricochet]

weren't you just talking about your star in another thread ricochet?Yes, I was. :D

[trickyasafox]

ouuu a 1911 in 9mm would be fantastic- but those are often not readily available on my end of the price continuum . . . . :) Maybe I'll see if I can give those sigs another run. this EAA will probably be on the market a lot longer than those p5's will float around.

[45 2.1]

ouuu a 1911 in 9mm would be fantastic- but those are often not readily available on my end of the price continuum . . . . :)

Look for a used Colt 38 Super. Add a Barsto barrel and Colt 9mm magazines and you have one nice 9mm government model.

[scrapcan]

I have a Springfield P9-9mm that is a tanfoglio clone. I had shot it a bunch ended up with a split barrel. Not for sure what caused the split, but ultimate resolution was that it had fired reloads. I purchased an eaa replacement barrel and it was fit (very minimal fit necessary, probably none if a person was not finicky). It runs as good now as it did witht eh wpringfield marked NM barrel. both barrels shoot cast favorably.

I would love to have an extra topend in a different caliber, my frame is the small frame and will not accomodate the 38super or 45acp. I keep waiting for an aftermarket 45 gap or some such.

I would not hesitate to buy a cz or cz clone. Mine came with two high cap mags and I have not put forth the effort to dig up more. I had bought a newer eaa slide with the hammer drop slide mounted safety and it fit and functioned perfectly. I ended up selling it to someone who had a 40 and wanted a 9mm top end, in favor of my hope of buying the 22 caliber topend (i bought a glock 19 instead). Conversion topend is still on the list.

[robertbank]

I have the .22lr conversion kit on my Tanfoglio and my advice is not to get it. Very finicky regarding ammo. Only round nose high velocity ammo works. The CZ .22lr conversion kit, won't fit on the Tanfoglio, is a much better piece of kit. Only the bottem half of the slide is utilized to eject rds which provides much less resistance - lighter - than the Tanfoglio which uses the full slide. In addition the Tanfoglio mags are polymer while the CZ uses steel mags. Lastly, the CZ kit locks back after the last round which is not the case with the Tanfoglio.

The CZ is much less finicky on ammo as well.

If I had to do it all over again I would have bought a dedicated .22LR pistol. The idea that by using the same frame you are getting cheaper practice from my experience is just an idea. Not sure you gain much with the kit.

Take Care

Bob

[45 2.1]

I've shot a CZ 75 in 9mm with the CZ 22lr conversion on it. Well made, but a little stiff. It worked fine with high speed ammo. I would buy the setup myself if I weren't Highpowered to death already.

[scrapcan]

Robert and Robert,

Thanks for the nfo on the 22 conversions. It is good to hear your experience with the kits. The whole inexpensive training scenario os not really a concern for me as I can cast and reload for about the same price ans what 22 ammo is going for today. I just wanted to try the conversion for the sake of tesing one. Probably the reason I have not bought one yet.

I would also look more closely at a cz75b rather than a Tan clone, just do to the the changes that tan incorporated, I am sure due to legal reasons, that prevents the use of cz mags and parts.

But I do appreciate both of your comments.

[trickyasafox]

man for the cost of the 22 upper you can almost get a dedicated 22 pistol!

[Ricochet]

I remember in the mid '70s when I was wrangling over whether to buy a new Mk. IV Series 70 Government Model in .38 Super or .45, when I very badly wanted both but could really afford neither, how I laughed at 9mm Government Models and couldn't understand why in the world anybody would ever want one. Wish I had a truckload of them now!

(I ended up going for the .45, BTW.)

(I did jones for a Browning Hi-Power then, too. Gave some thought to buying an S&W Model 59, which would've cost about the same as the Government Model. The Browning was definitely in the unobtainosphere.)

[mike in co]

your purchase should be made on what you are EXPECTING from the gun. i have an eaa/tanfanglo cz clone. it works well, just not as nice as my cz's. the cz's have much better quality and shoot amazingly well with the stock bbl( tho i do have two with bar-sto bbls).
if this means you have to wait a bit ...then do it......dont buy just to buy. and there should be no issues with mags from 10rds on up...

mike in co

( in the good ol' us of a, everyone dolts on the venerable 1911. and it is a great gun and a great round..the 45acp, having said that, the most popular handgun in the world( this does go back before the berretta92) is the cz75 and its clones...sorry to burst some bubbles)

[spurrit]

Thanks for the heads up eljefe- I got to toy with a p226 and a mosquito a while backand frankly did not like the ergonomics. Sig makes good guns to be sure- but just didn't feel right.

Maybe I should try to track down a Hi-power clone. I hear good things about those.

I'm a big time Sig fan, but the EAA Witness absolutely ROCKS! They're so ugly, they may as well be a Glock, but I've never picked up a gun that pointed as well. I've held, but not shot, the target version, and it looks good to go, even for high speed shooting.

If you get a chance, try a Sig with Pachmayr grips. The ones I had on my 220 looks like hell, because I "customised" them with my pocket knife, but they fit better.

On the bright side, Sigs hold their value really well.

[monadnock#5]

I have large palms and short fingers. Yeah, I know, "personal problems listened to..." Anyway, a couple of months ago I bought one of the new S&W M+P's in 9mm. They come with three grip inserts so that one can customize the fit. I love it. High cap mags with none of the "I'm holding on to a 2X4" feel to it.

[ForneyRider]

Rock Island Armory has 38 Super models. They are 1911 variant.

[Ricochet]

Yep. And having recently picked up an RIA 1911 .45 (for my boy, of course), I can attest that they're nice pieces.

[yondering]

Yes the EAA guns are a CZ clone. A double action CZ clone.

Now everyone of these I've seen has had the drop safety a la Smith & Wesson and the government M9.

Personally I think this type safety sucks! It's to hard to reach and when you do it automatically returns the gun to double action for the next shot.

I will then suggest the CZ 75! You can get this gun in a slightly later version with an Ambi safety plus it has the cocked and locked option. Several firms are making parts for this Bar Sto barrels is making an awsome replacement barrel for the CZ that will make it a tack driver.



That's the first I've heard about any Witness pistols having that type of safety. Every steel frame Witness (Tangfolio) that I've seen has the same safety as the CZ's, which allows cocked and locked.

For a 9mm, you may as well get the CZ, should feel the same in the hand and they are a little better quality (although I like the Witness series a lot). If you go for a bigger bore, say 10mm or .45, go with the Witness. The CZ .45 is considerably bigger than the Witness, can be a problem if you have short fingers.

9mm mags are interchangeable for CZ and Witness series. 10mm is a little harder to find but 15 round mags are available.