Which rifle for white tail

[pull the trigger]

This is not a trick question. Marlin Camp 9 or a 30 carbine? No, really. Which one?

[osteodoc08]

Of the 2?

30 Carbine.

[Ural Driver]

Are those your absolute only choices? And where are these deer living? Northern Michigan deer are a lot bigger than those in northern Texas......

[Wayne Smith]

Neither, both are minimal unless you are very close and very accurate. Size of deer matters too, as does shot placement. Head/spine shots - DRT. Most any others - how good are you at tracking?

[possom813]

Buy an old Mosin, if you're close enough to use a camp 9, you're close enough to bonk it on the head with the buttstock of a mosin, either way will work just about as well as the other...just sayin'

[C. Latch]

Whichever one is more accurate, and by accurate, I mean guaranteed heart shots at 35 yards.

Sure, both will kill at longer ranges, but you're below my comfort level there. To each his own.

[Wolfer]

If those were my only choices for a rifle I would probably just pull the ever present 45 colt and use it. It's worked for me too many times.

Seriously though for me it would be 30 carbine. Both will work fine if you put it in the right spot. Both will fail miserably if you don't.

[pietro]

.

I would suggest first checking with the Game Wardens in the state you intend to use those pistol-length cartridges, since they may not be allowed for deer hunting because of relatively low power (compared to larger cartridges) - not to mention the dearth of boolits suitable for humane kills on deer.


.

[MarkP]

NE requires 22 cal or larger and 900 ft-lbs @ 100 yds and just recently added the 357 & 45 LC rifles as an exception to the energy requirement. The handgun requirement is 400 ft-lbs @ 50 yds. I thought about using my Ruger 30M1 BH I decided not to since I have better handgun options.

Iowa handgun Deer law is cartridge specific and lists several (all are straight walled) the minimum being 38 Super, 40 S&W.

With well placed shots either should work.

[country gent]

I would concour with the 30 carbine perferably loaded with a soft point or cast bullet that WILL expand some. Then close shots with very good placement of the bullet. I know a guy who hunted central michigans high pwer area with a 30 carbine, He took deer every year with it but he also chose his shots and placed bullets very precisely. If possible I would look for something slightly bigger A ranch rifle in 7.62 X 39 with appropriate bullets wouldnt be much more recoil wise or weight wise.

[Blammer]

30 carbine

[Vann]

30 carbine, I used to use an AMT Automag III which is a 30 carbine. Never had a problem.

[MT Chambers]

Very poor choices for deer sized game, folks up here in Kanada that are low on money will buy a used .303 or 30/30, much better choice right on up to bears and moose.

[pull the trigger]

I was just arguing with my buddy about it. I think the 9mm out of a 16.5" barrel is about like a 357mag from a revolver. And I do have much better choices. Thanks guys. Some responses were funny:-)

[randyrat]

It's kinda funny, but my father in law shot and killed some real nice big WI bucks with his 32-20 lever over the years, he finally moved up to the powerful 30-30 single shot and dropped many more.

[Screwbolts]

I would not hesitate to use either of your Questioned rifles for Whitetail deer. But then again, I haven't been consumed with Magnumituss, I believe it runs rapid in many "hunters".

Put a .30 or .356 hole threw the pump station of any mammal and it is lights out for them.

Ken

[Lloyd Smale]

well heres my take on it. I'm sure not advocating using either but my first deer rifle was a 30 carbine. I hunted with it from age 12 to age 17. Killed quite a few deer with it here and yes I'm in the UP of Michigan where the deer supposedly are big (don't know if I agree with that either) I did shoot a couple 8 pointers with it though. I never lost a deer shot with my 30 but the shots were all under 50 yards. I don't think any deer ever went over a 100 yards. I used 110 jacketed soft points. One of my dads buddys who was the other owner of our camp used one too. He had money and could have used any gun. He allways had a pre 64 win of some caliber sitting at camp. He loved his m1 and killed truck loads of deer with it. That all said I probably wouldn't grab one today to go hunting. I just don't like dragging deer or chasing blood trails and prefer something a bit more powerful. But ill stand here and say a deer properly hit by an m1 will provide backstraps for the table the next day.

[marlin39a]

I don't consider either one right for deer. Much better, humane, choices out there.

[jlchucker]

Neither one. 30-30 Winchester. The caliber with a good track record for a very, very long time.

[atr]

HAAAAAAA !....the whitetails here in the north central cascades would be laughing at your choices.....you would never get within range

[fryboy]

Have to get close ( might as well use a bow then ...) Having said that either one would work within it's limited range so pick the one you shoot most accurately and don't look back

[Outpost75]

If those were my only choices for a rifle I would probably just pull the ever present 45 colt and use it. It's worked for me too many times...Seriously though for me it would be 30 carbine. Both will work fine if you put it in the right spot. Both will fail miserably if you don't.

Agree, properly loaded .44-40 or .45 Colt revolver is as good as a .30-30 and LOTS better than a .30 carbine or 9mm wounder.

I mostly hunt deer with a Ruger Old Army black powder revolver and .45 roundball at about 1000 fps from 7-1/2" barrel. I limit myself to shots within 25 yards and at that range a round ball will shoot through both shoulders of a whitetail. I do pick shots carefully and pass up anything marginal, but have not lost an animal I actually shot at.

Knowledge of deer anatomy, stalking skill, patience and marksmanship!

[Artful]

Seen plenty of deer killed with M1 Carbine as a kid in Oregon in blacktail country in the coastal range - close in shooting there. Also talked to lots of Vets who could show scars from 9mm SMG.

My experience is a 357 Carbine shoots about like people think a 357 handgun does.

And yes lots of deer and cattle have fallen to 22LR
- it's all about knowing how to use your tool.

[Bullwolf]

I have both rifles, and have used neither one on a deer, but it's a deer not an elk. For thin skinned game, I'm sure either one would do the job if you placed the shot correctly.

Between the two ballistically, I would probably pick the 30 carbine with a soft point bullet.

If forced to use a pistol caliber carbine to shoot a deer with, I'd prefer my Ruger 77 in 357 Magnum both for the accuracy, and the energy. My venerable old 30/30 Winchester has been my deer rifle for a long while now, and I've yet to see a reason to change it - Why fix it if it isn't broken?

Here's a few links you may find interesting, from Ballistics by the inch.

9mm shows a mild velocity improvement from a carbine length barrel.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

The 357 magnum cartridge gains much more velocity from a longer barrel.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html



- Bullwolf

[Good Cheer]

Only knew one fella that hunted deer with a .30 carbine but he also dropped geese with it.
After dealing with the Montagnards he didn't seem to much care what Uncle Sam said about steel shot.

[Vann]

Hmm, 30 carbine to weak?

30 carbine 110 gr. bullet 1990 fps 976 ft-lb
44 magnum 240 gr. bullet 1180 fps 741 ft-lb
357 magnum 158 gr. bullet 1240 fps 539 ft-lb

Yeah, it's weak but not that weak. There's a reason that I bought an Auto mag III for hunting.

[Mica_Hiebert]

I was just arguing with my buddy about it. I think the 9mm out of a 16.5" barrel is about like a 357mag from a revolver. And I do have much better choices. Thanks guys. Some responses were funny:-) You only gain about 100 fps out of the carbine. With that said my brother shot a doe with his 9mm ar15 using gold dot hollow points just so he could prove Internet naysayers wrong. Use what you want. Choose your shots and happy hunting.

[northmn]

Interesting contmplation. Once just for discussion I asked what some would consider the minimum rifle they would use for deer. Differing responses. Also one should have some experience with lesser calibers for comment. After about 50 years of der hunting with bows, revolvers, muzzle loaders and modern rifles I am not as definite as some that love to cite modern ballistic theory which is mostly BS. KE does not mean that much either as any user of a 35 Remington or some of the older thumpers can tell you.
Mostly to me it is an issue of comfort. I would feel kind of silly holding a smaller caliber like the 30 carbine in some of my stands where a longer shot of over 100 yards might present itself. I realized that when I took out my Rossi 357 last fall. My comfort zone lies with the 30-30 or my old 35 Remington. I picked up a 243 to play with last fall and am comfortable with it despite one thread on the 243 I read where a couple of armchair quarterbacks were knocking it as being marginal. My complaint with it lay in the fact that I process my own meat and gave a lot of blood splattering typical of higher velocity rifles. Been told that Nosler partitions can help with that. I have some stands where the I am comfortable with the 357 as the shots are closer.
I also chatted with some that like to play with a 32-20. One individual claimed that he had a 30 day hunting season and a 5 deer limit. I have a 2 week season, one deer and often bucks only. I am not going to play around with some pipsqueak caliber when I might get one chance at a decent deer. When we had a 5 deer limit which was aimed at anterless permits then one could play around a bit.

DP

[aspangler]

I have killed deer with about anything from .223 to 45-70. I still like my old 30-30 for where I hunt. 50-75 yard shots. If I am going to hunt farther than that, I personally would preferr my 270, 30-06, or 8mm Mauser. I have a 7.62x54 that is waitng to get a deer but the 30 carbine would work fine at the shorter ranges if the shot placement is good. It all comes down to Shot placement, Shot placement, Shot placement.
That's just my two cent worth. Take it for what it is worth. YMMV

[Lloyd Smale]

keep in mind that at one time in this country the 3220 was considered a great deer rifle and some even claimed the 2520 was. the 30 carbine is hands down more powerful then either of those factory loaded. I personaly don't think energy figures mean much and having used both a 44 mag handgun and a 30 carbine id take the 44 handgun hands down over the 30 for 100 yard or less deer shooting. Id bet the old 30 would give a 357 lever gun a good run though.

[northmn]

As stated I once asked about what some considered the "minimum" for a deer rifle. Basically my experience over the past 50 years or so cannot provide a real answer. The 30 carbine was illegal for deer in Minnesota for many years, but some used it anyway and got deer with it. But note for a military cartridge it never really got the acceptance of other cartridges. Civilian versions such as a 62 Marlin never went over. In a lever rifle like the 62 or some other combination it could be loaded like a 32-20 or slightly over. Some 32-20 loads with todays powders get pretty close to the carbine load.
One of my puzzles is how popular the 44-40 was over the years. Its standard rifle load is not even a strong pistol load by todays standards. Those that use it on deer claim it works OK. For years I shot and built muzzle loaders. Very few are that powerful with round ball. they kill deer but some claimed the 40 was a bit light and the 45 RB not so good over 75 yards where RB's start to fizzle downrange. I still believe there is a good reason that the 30-30 became the "deer rifle" as to power levels and such.

DEP

[Wayne Smith]

My Uberti short rifle in 44-40, 37gr Goex FFG, 200gr Big Lube boolit, gets 1400fps. Within range, say 75 yds., should be OK for deer. BP loads aren't pipsqueek by any means. I have no idea what the factory smokeless loads do. The 30-30 became popular because of how flat it shoots compared to the 45-70 or the 44-40 and it's downrange power compared to the 44-40.

[DougGuy]

30 Carbine WILL kill deer, and no matter WHAT caliber you shoot one with, shot placement is STILL KEY.

That said, look to a bigger heavier boolit if you want to kill it humanely and quickly. Anything besides a head/neck shot with a 30 Carbine is going to take a lot more bleeding out and it will run a lot farther before it expires.

I would not even carry a 9mm in the field hunting. It doesn't even rate consideration as a viable cartridge for ethical whitetail hunting.

[Hickory]

This is not a trick question. Marlin Camp 9 or a 30 carbine? No, really. Which one?
Neither!!!
While both are able to kill deer, I would not choose either one for that endeavour.
If you can afford it, buy a rifle more suited for the job at hand. Clean kills on any animal is to be desired.
No one but a slob hunter would use a gun that would more likely wound than kill.
Man up, and get the proper equipment.

[Wayne Smith]

Poachers in Maine will shoot deer with .22's because they are quiet. Close head shots and it works. The issue is distance and shot placement, not specifically the gun. If you are hunting in normal hunting conditions where you are likely to have shots from 25yds to 150yds you have to pass up shots that your gun won't reliably kill. You have to be a hunter, not a deer killer. If you are not up to this, don't try it.

[northmn]

Poachers in Maine will shoot deer with .22's because they are quiet. Close head shots and it works. The issue is distance and shot placement, not specifically the gun. If you are hunting in normal hunting conditions where you are likely to have shots from 25yds to 150yds you have to pass up shots that your gun won't reliably kill. You have to be a hunter, not a deer killer. If you are not up to this, don't try it.
Problem with the headshots with any caliber is that a miss can ruin the jaw area and the deer will not be found and die. Some do like to take the head shot if they get a back of the head shot. One contributer one time said he killed a deer with a slingshot when he was a kid (kind of got in trouble with dad) We see all kinds of tables where X energy is needed or some such egg headed math. As one with a degree in math I can call it egg headed. I could write an article called BULListics. Defining what constitutes a good deer rifle is tough. I sold a 270 and don't miss it. Processing my own meat I felt it was too much rifle at closer ranges. A shoulder shot meant throwing away the shoulder, often both. The 243, 30-30, 32 Special, 35 Remington, 300 Savage that we call deer rifles work fine. I can relate to the 38-55, 44-40 and other similar pumpkin slingers like the 44 mag also. My 38-55 worked well on deer. Ranges, I've shot them from about 15 feet to over 200 yards. Prefer Waynes standards.
I knew a few hunters that used the 32-20's and 25-20's as kids and got deer with them but they moved up to larger rifles. A friend of mine that went to school with me has shot more deer than most any 2 of us and loved the 30-30. Claimed when he counted he had 26 straight one shot kills. Daughter had 5 and I do not remember shooting a deer more than once with one.
In MN the deer can get pretty fuzzy with their winter coats and tend to put on a lot of fat. The 2 I shot last year did not leave an immediate blood trail. Both were easy to find. I just am not comfortable with going too small.

DP

[Bigslug]

Between the two? Depends a little on what you're loading.

For factory ammo, I'd take the Marlin with one of the 9mm 147 grain duty loads and not think twice about taking a deer inside of 50 yards with decent angle.

I'd probably prefer the carbine if I could shoot my own cast out of it. Plenty of guys hunting deer with flat nose cast bullets that aren't likely to expand in the 150-200 grain at 1600-2200fps range in various .30 calibers. All a .30 Carbine lacks is a little bit of mass, but as has been said, there was a time when the .32-20 was considered plenty. I think it's really the era of poorly constructed jacketed that has programmed us to think we need to throw so much weight at such high speeds.

[lefty o]

while neither is what id call optimum, they will both kill a whitetail at reasonable distances. the biggest baddest whitetail isnt exactly armor plated, they die quickly if you put the bullet where it belongs.

[MT Gianni]

Either or, no real difference but don't take any shot you cannot guarantee will go in the ear hole.

[warboar_21]

My friends mom used a Winchester M1 Carbine to hunt Mule deer in Idaho and Utah growing up. Not the most ideal choice by today's standards where nothing short of a magnum will kill a ground squirrel.

If you are within ethical hunting ranges and could put the bullet where it needs to go then you will fill your tag.

[Lead Fred]

Neither one. 30-30 Winchester.

America's deer cartridge is either the 30WCF or the Marlin 30-30. A lever gun is half the price of a M1 carbine, and a much better round.

30 carbine: 110gr 1990fps 967fpe





30-30: 110gr 2684fps 1760fpe

Then figure in a standard 30-30 weight boolit: 160gr Cast 2330fps 1929fpe

[Screwbolts]

Many moons ago, my opinion and $.10 used to be able to buy a cup of coffee, then it was my opinion and $.15, then it was my opinion and $.25, then it was my opinion and $.35, then it was my opinion and $.50, then it was my opinion and $.60, and now it usually takes $2.00 and my opinion to buy a cup of what they call coffee.

So there you have it, today someones opinion and at least $2.00 are needed to buy a cup of coffee.

Ken

[Smoke4320]

If those were my ONLY choices .. 30 Carbine .. and close range 50 yds or less well placed shots.. It can and has been done ..
Now I would say if at all possible I would pick something stronger

[Shawlerbrook]

Very poor choices for deer sized game, folks up here in Kanada that are low on money will buy a used .303 or 30/30, much better choice right on up to bears and moose.

What he said.^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Lloyd Smale]

I doubt many are running out and buying a 30 carbine to hunt deer. I think its more of a matter of already owning one and wanting to use it to kill maybe one deer just to say they actually used it on something.

[northmn]

I doubt many are running out and buying a 30 carbine to hunt deer. I think its more of a matter of already owning one and wanting to use it to kill maybe one deer just to say they actually used it on something.
I think that is true of a lot of individuals. Soem want to use the 32-20 on deer because they like the rifle and want to see if it is the combination rifle for small game and deer Winchester supposedly said it was. Saw the same thing in muzzle loading with the 32 where some were impressed enough with the little caliber to want to try it on deer. Saw an individual using a 28 gauge that wanted to prove he could shoot any game bird with one. He did but used tungston alloy shot at about $3-4 per shell in handlaods to do so. More of a stunt than anything else.
I could kill a deer with a thrown rock if I hit it right, but don't carry a bag of rocks on my tractor during deer season when I put up wood. As to saying I did it, been there done that with muzzle loaders, pistols, recurves, longbows, BP cartridge and center fires. A while back I kind went to lever actions and enjoy them. Might play more with my 38-55 and cast but it is a very viable caliber. Still a lot of folks that want to say "been there done that" and try these different combinations. there is no magic caliber.

DP

[Don Fischer]

I killed a lot of Roe Buck's in Germany with a 30 M-1 carbine. Wouldn't get one for here though. What was the other? 357 mag? Wouldn't do it. if I were to buy a while tail gun It would be in something like a 260 Rem and a rifle with a min 20" barrel. But then I have a 6.5x55 wi5th a 22" barrel right now. I don't care to shoot semi auto's or pump's.

[dverna]

Do you have a shotgun?

[Lloyd Smale]

yup most use them because they were grandpas gun and just want to use the gun to kill a deer that grandpa did.
I think that is true of a lot of individuals. Soem want to use the 32-20 on deer because they like the rifle and want to see if it is the combination rifle for small game and deer Winchester supposedly said it was. Saw the same thing in muzzle loading with the 32 where some were impressed enough with the little caliber to want to try it on deer. Saw an individual using a 28 gauge that wanted to prove he could shoot any game bird with one. He did but used tungston alloy shot at about $3-4 per shell in handlaods to do so. More of a stunt than anything else.
I could kill a deer with a thrown rock if I hit it right, but don't carry a bag of rocks on my tractor during deer season when I put up wood. As to saying I did it, been there done that with muzzle loaders, pistols, recurves, longbows, BP cartridge and center fires. A while back I kind went to lever actions and enjoy them. Might play more with my 38-55 and cast but it is a very viable caliber. Still a lot of folks that want to say "been there done that" and try these different combinations. there is no magic caliber.

DP

[flounderman]

I have seen a deer shot with a carbine factory softpoint andit did plenty of damage. There is no comparison between a 9mm and a 30 m-1 If you are hunting from a tree stand, take a neck shot, no problem with an M-1. It isn't a bean field caliber.

[Texas by God]

My choice would be .30 carbine. Under 100 yds with soft polnt bullets. The .300 blackout ain't got much more muscle and lots of deer and hogs die at its hand. Best, Thomas.

[Wayne Smith]

My choice would be .30 carbine. Under 100 yds with soft polnt bullets. The .300 blackout ain't got much more muscle and lots of deer and hogs die at its hand. Best, Thomas.

Ballistically I believe that the 300Blackout is basically a 30-30 in an M4 frame. Not comparable directly to the 30 Carbine.

[Earlwb]

One thought is that in some states both calibers are illegal for deer hunting or big game for that matter. So you may not be able to use either one for deer hunting if you live in one of those states.

[Texas by God]

I own and use a .30 carbine, a .300 Blackout, a 30-30, and a .300 Savage. In my opinion(based on my experience) the .30 carbine is to the Backout what the 30-30 is to the Savage. I stand by my original statement(.30 carbine/110sp 100yds max)

[charlie b]

What you can use and what you should use are so different. If you are really good a pellet gun will work. And you won't be the first to do so.

But, if you're not going to pick your shot and you can't hit where you need to, then nothing will be big enough.

[Lloyd Smale]

lot of this depends on where and how you hunt. Out west were a 50 yard shot is rare and muleys are big id say no. Here in Michigan our deer contrary to what some internet experts claim are small. its pretty rare to shoot one over a 150 lbs and most are around a 100. Most everyone up here hunts out of blinds and most because of thick brush and woods are limited to a 50-75 yard shot. I have in the past used both the 3220 and 30 carbine to kill deer under those conditions and ive never lost one. Precise shots are pretty easy under those conditions and a bullet behind the shoulder with either will put back straps on the table. Would I do it again. Probably not. The carbine was a first deer rifle and I had nothing else. the 3220 was grandpas and by the way he killed well over a 100 deer with that rifle before I shot two and put it away. He swore by that gun and used lame factory ammo that a 30 carbine makes look silly. He didn't shoot at running deer and never pulled a trigger unless he was sure of his shot and claimed he never lost a deer to that gun. It many not be the ideal gun but a 30 carbine IS NOT a 22. It was responsible for ending the lives of probably just as many living things as the 3030 has. Thing is most of them were two legged. Was it ideal for that? Probably not but either is the MAIN rifle that the military uses today the 5.56. At 50 yards I would just as soon have a 30 carbine loaded with soft points as a 556 loaded with anything.

[Geezer in NH]

I will pass on both.

I have used a Marlin SBR with a Silencer for control work however but that is not hunting.

[Texas by God]

I will pass on both.

I have used a Marlin SBR with a Silencer for control work however but that is not hunting. And what caliber is a Marlin SBR? Under 50 yds I would use a.30 Blackhawk happily. Best, Thomas.

[Jake70]

The 30 carbine. 9mm is just not enough power for my liking's.

[Lloyd Smale]

lots of Japanese and german soldiers went for a visit to the pearly gates having been shot with a 30 carbine. Lots don't think the 223 is a good deer rifle but lots of men went to see there maker shot by those too and a man is just as big as a deer. It might not be the ideal gun for whitetail hunting but calling a man a slob or telling him to man up is getting carried away. Id kind of like to know what you base your opinion on. I have an opinion of both of those calibers when it comes to big game hunting but have personaly shot game with both. HAVE YOU???? Some will claim the slob hunter is the one carrying a 338 mag because he can get away with shooting a deer anywhere and killing it rather then the guy with a 30 carbine or 223 that sits in his blind that's specifically set up to limit shots to 50-75 yards and hones his accuracy skills all year so he KNOWS when he pulls the trigger the bullet is going into the vitals and if you think a 30 carbine bullet shot into the heart of a deer is going to wound it then you don't know squat about killing deer.
Neither!!!
While both are able to kill deer, I would not choose either one for that endeavour.
If you can afford it, buy a rifle more suited for the job at hand. Clean kills on any animal is to be desired.
No one but a slob hunter would use a gun that would more likely wound than kill.
Man up, and get the proper equipment.

[warf73]

I doubt many are running out and buying a 30 carbine to hunt deer. I think its more of a matter of already owning one and wanting to use it to kill maybe one deer just to say they actually used it on something.

I would agree with you whole heartily Lloyd on this statement as I did the something a few years back. I didn't use a 30 carbine but did use my 460WBY pushing a little bullet that tipped the scale 350grs. Was it to much gun? Probably so but the deer never moved once I squeezed the trigger. Why use an elephant gun on deer in Kansas? Because I had my African big game hunt canceled and was all boned up on shooting something with the big stick.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup I shot a couple does years back with my 458 using full power factory loads. It ended up pretty uneventful. Probably less damage then a 3030.
I would agree with you whole heartily Lloyd on this statement as I did the something a few years back. I didn't use a 30 carbine but did use my 460WBY pushing a little bullet that tipped the scale 350grs. Was it to much gun? Probably so but the deer never moved once I squeezed the trigger. Why use an elephant gun on deer in Kansas? Because I had my African big game hunt canceled and was all boned up on shooting something with the big stick.

[Drm50]

You can kill a white tail with a 22rf, that don't mean it's a good deer rifle. If you set on a stump
and wait for a shot at short range, on a stationary deer, just about anything will do the job. So
even though they are both poor choices I would go with the 30 carbine. I makes me sick to see
some idiot using a HI Point 9mm carbine for a deer gun. Ohio has got lots of them.

[Don Fischer]

there is so many cartridge's that would work well it's embarrassing! Then the actual rifle part, most anything will work well, depending on where you hunt. Heavy cover, lighter cover, bean field, Montana or the Dakota's? I think the first thing to do is determine the cover you'll hunt. From there pick the rifle you like to hunt with. We don't have many wwhite tails here in Oregon but we do have all the cover extreme's. My mod 788 in 308 would be great in heavy cover, my mod 660 in 308 was. Short barrel does it for me. Get into more open forest and I'd go with a different cartridge and a bolt rifle with no more than a 22" barrel. Out here where I live I've used a number of different cartridge's from that old mod 660 to a 6.5x06 with a 25" barrel, they all worked. Rifle I've probably killed the most deer with around here is my 25-06. 24" barrel. I wouldn't choose to use a long barrel rifle in heavy cover, keep that to 20" max and a short action. Out here where I live, 22" min to 24" max and a long action. Such a load of cartridge's that work well on deer, just choose your medicine!Funny thing. I was a fan of Jack O'Conner but I've only ever had one 270 and it got stolen before I ever got to hunt with it! There's not a thing a 6.5x06 or a 280 can do that the 270 can't do equally well but the cartridge just doesn't have a nice ring to it!

[modified5]

The OP said this was a discussion he was having with a buddy of his so it sounds more like an intellectual exercise than what he really wants to hunt with.
I have killed as many deer out here in the wide open west with a bow as I have with rifles so you can get close.
Believe me I am not taking 300 yard shots with my bow. :-)
I have killed at 300 yards with my 7 mag though. He was at the top of a canyon and I was at the bottom. Glad it wasn't the other way around. Dragging down hill is much easier.
Anyway, per the original discussion I too would choose the 30 carbine over the 9mm and keep it at bow range loaded with either a good soft point or cb.
JMO, others may vary. :-)

[6mm win lee]

I doubt many are running out and buying a 30 carbine to hunt deer. I think its more of a matter of already owning one and wanting to use it to kill maybe one deer just to say they actually used it on something.

That would be me all over. Do it once just to say "I done it" but I think I will stick with my .729 caliber Remington 11-87 deluxe deer killing rifle since I have two cases of ammo for it and only roll through a few rounds a season.