A good trigger pull=small cast bullet groups

[bhp9]

The most over looked component in accuracy is the quality of the trigger. Last week I was a little frustrated when shooting a M70 Winchester in .308 and I was averaging only ¾ of an inch with my cast bullet loads. I knew that it was not the accuracy of the gun, the quality of the scope or my cast bullets. It was the trigger pull that was going of at a crisp 2lbs. Now a 2lb pull to most people would seem great but a 2lb pull is 2 lbs. too much for the achievement of consistently small groups.

I decided to buy yet another Jewell trigger. It can be set as light as 1 ounce. The result was a reduction in group size from ¾ of an inch to a consistent ½ inch groups.

Now why do not all people run out and get good triggers for their rifles. Simple, the cost is now out of this world as the retail price on the Jewell trigger was a whopping $275 dollars and that does not include the installation fees which with some smiths can run as high as 150 dollars.

Luckily I have had prior experience installing triggers on M70 Winchesters so I did the job myself but it took a very long 3 days that included re-inletting the stock to accommodate the bigger housing of the Jewel trigger, also re-inletting the trigger guard so the Jewel trigger could pass through it. The trigger guard was one of the early (quality) steel ones, not the econo-grade aluminum one of later post-64 models so the metal of the steel one was much harder to cut.

And last but not least, the real fun was fitting the safety to the trigger. If you have never done this job on a M70 you have not lived to experience the tediousness of it all. Believe me it took lots of painstaking time and work to get it right and get it to work safely (pun intended)

I was a little disappointed that the Jewel trigger was so narrow as I would have liked a much wider trigger but I was very surprised that the design of this trigger allowed you to simply remove the trigger guard and all the adjustment screws were accessible without having to remove the stock as to the case with most other after market triggers.

I also have a .223 M70 that is capable of shooting ¼ inch groups if it had, you guessed it, another Jewel trigger. I think I will take a rest for a while before I tackle that next project.

In conclusion if you are constantly getting some fliers with your cast bullet loads the problem may not be the quality of your cast bullets but the problem may be with the weight of your trigger pull.

[Bret4207]

This is great! Which matches will you be competing in? You should sweep the Nationals, no problem. In fact I bet we could raise the $$ to get you your 223 trigger so you could sweep the field with your 1/4" 223![smilie=1:

[No_1]

Bret,
You are joking right?

R.

[runfiverun]

i don't think bret is joking.
imagine how he could do if he could get the yaw out outta them 223's.....

[Bret4207]

What? He's already claiming he's shooting consistent 1/2" groups with his 308 and he's got a 223 that just needs a trigger to get to 1/4" consistent groups. The guys a shoe in for the CBA National title.:holysheep

[pps]

I'd be happy to just get the consistent 3/4" groups.

[35remington]

I did think it was getting pretty deep in here, too.

[No_1]

The comment about the joking part was about collecting money to buy this guy a trigger. Next thing you know someone is gonna take up a collection to sponser his trips...
R.

[targetshootr]

Yep, my wheelguns with spongey triggers are ammo wasters. They're not even fun to dry fire.

[runfiverun]

i might pitch in a couple bucks for the patch we can sew on his shootin jacket.

[fatnhappy]

I'm astounded how he's already quantified his improvement before installing a new trigger.

[Bret4207]

I'm astounded how he's already quantified his improvement before installing a new trigger.

Ditto. Reminds me of "One ragged hole".

[45 2.1]

Ditto. Reminds me of "One ragged hole".

I believe Carpetman started that about Starmetal. Difference is writing about it after you've done it instead of before you try to do it, a really BIG difference there. What simply amazes me is the attitude of "If I can't do it, you can't either" that seems to be evident in a lot of people posts anymore.

[jack19512]

Last week I was a little frustrated when shooting a M70 Winchester in .308 and I was averaging only ¾ of an inch with my cast bullet loads.







I would be absolutely satisfied with 3/4 inch groups from any of my rifles and cast bullets. But the original poster doesn't say at what distance he was shooting so he could have been getting this group from 10 feet for all I know. [smilie=w:

[Larry Gibson]

bhp9

Well I'm not going to criticise your claims (I've got dogs in other hunts) but I will comment that a good trigger is essential to good shooting. Not necessary as a good shot can over come problems with a pretty bad trigger. However a good trigger is always nice to have and makes good shooting easier. One caveat though; a nice super light light trigger as you mention is nice for bench shooting but poses some real problems when shooting from field positions or when shooting a rifle of substantial recoil. In such cases applying some pressure (felt) on a trigger without it firing is conducive to better accuracy in those cases and also safety in most cases.

As usual it's jut a case where one "solution" does not fit all circumstances.

Larry Gibson

[Lead melter]

I have not been here as long as most of you guys, nor do I have the knowledge of most of you guys...but I am going to go out on a limb here.

Yeah, it looked like some bragging going on, and it appeared that the writer may have put the cart before the horse on the 223 issue, but did you guys have to hammer it in so hard?

[felix]

I agree that the better the trigger, the better the groups. This is, of course, dependent all other factors being satisfied first and foremost. Most especially recoil control. About the worst experience I have ever had was shooting a tricked out '06 at 500 meter rams with a BR trigger. Yeah, I hit a couple, but I shot into the next county while trying to settle on the remainder. Never again. I prefer a very crisp 3.5 pound trigger for ALL offhand shooting. ... felix

[montana_charlie]

I agree with felix that very crisp is more important than very light.
As for a trigger a weight of one ounce...guys who regularly use set triggers have many anecdotes about the gun saying 'boom' before the brain said 'squeeze'.
CM

[dubber123]

Well, he didn't give a range. 3/4" at 50 yds with a .308 is pretty easy. 100 yds, alot harder but doable I would imagine. I can't, but I'm pretty new to cast in rifles.

1/4" with a .223 sounds improbable, but I don't think he said that was with cast either. 1/4" 100 yd. .223's certainly DO happen with jacketed bullets. I agree with him totally in that a 2 lb. trigger really is a hindrance for bench shooting.

I used to be delighted beyond belief with a 2 lb. trigger until I shot some guns with much lighter pulls. I guess I'm spoiled now. For hunting, yes heavier to a point, on the bench, 1 lb. or less is nice in my opinion.

[felix]

Only a BR trigger will do on the bench for a gun made for the purpose. 1 pounder is OK for a varmint gun, but not for a BR gun. The Jewell trigger has been the mainstay for quite a few years, but there are others coming on the line now that might be even more solid. It is a wait and see game. ... felix

[Bret4207]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my sarcasm. I have a hard time with some of the claims I see on the web. Claiming all it takes to make a 1/2" rifle a 1/4" rifle is an expensive trigger is a bit much for my BS meter. Show me a series of witnessed 100 yards targets at an honest 100 yards with cast and I'll gladly fall all over myself apologizing. I'm sure it can be done, but like the SKS cast loads shooting "one ragged hole" at 100 yards, I want to see the proof. Not fluke targets either. Day in day out. I've had to eat crow too many times to brag about ANYTHING anymore.

[Hipshot]

I get consistant 1/2 inch-----1 shot groups with my .500 S&W Mag.-------SOMETIMES !

Hipshot

[JohnClark7886]

Hipshot...I almost fell on the floor laughing so hard !!!!!What do you shoot with that canon anyway...suv's, light rail, semi's???? It would be nice to know at what range our shooter is getting those groupings at. Personally I am holding out for the new "intelligent trigger" by Ron Popeil...you know, the one where you line everything up and just "think" and it goes off without any tigger pull at all to mess up the shot...and coupled with Ron's new "miracle no recoil" pad I should be able to shoot in the same hole time and time again from at least 300 yards...RIGHT????? Now where did I put my glasses again???:takinWiz:

[jack19512]

It would be nice to know at what range our shooter is getting those groupings at.







Since the OP hasn't posted again we probably won't be getting any more info. I was curious about the distance and loads used myself.

[runfiverun]

the way i heard it he was using some powder up to the case neck. and then some other
stuff like primers and a bullet iirc it was copper colored and pointy.

[Char-Gar]

My thoughts on the subject at hand:

1) What was the range of the 1/2 inch groups?
2) No way would I want a 1 oz trigger on a rifle, that was not a dedicated bench rifle
3) A good trigger is a help in shooting good groups, but some very good shooting can be done with lesser triggers by a man who knows his way around rifle craft.

[AZ-Stew]

Bret,

I'm in your camp. When I started at my current job 21 years ago, there was a "gentleman" there who was absolutely adamant that he had a 7mm Rem. Magnum rifle that would shoot 3" diameter holes in 1/2" thick steel plate at 200 yards. Kinda pegged my BS meter. And that was BEFORE the Web. I wonder what he's come up with since.

JohnClark,

You stole my thunder. I was going to claim that I had removed the trigger from my rifle, thus achieving a 1-hole group due to zero trigger pull. I guess I should have read the list last night. Day late and a dollar short.

Regards,

Stew

[Hipshot]

Johnclark,
That is the beauty of the .500 S&W Magnum-------------No matter what range that you are shooting, it will get 1/2 ", 1 shot groups on occasion !

Hipshot

P.S. I heard a story about a Russian Olympic shooter that had an electronic trigger on his pistol that he would fire with his LEFT hand while he was shooting with his right hand ! The wires were run up his jacket and down his sleeve-----no trigger jerk to disturb the sight picture.

[badgeredd]

Bret,

I'm in your camp. When I started at my current job 21 years ago, there was a "gentleman" there who was absolutely adamant that he had a 7mm Rem. Magnum rifle that would shoot 3" diameter holes in 1/2" thick steel plate at 200 yards. Kinda pegged my BS meter. And that was BEFORE the Web. I wonder what he's come up with since................

Stew

Stew and all,
As an apprentice, I worked with another young guy that claimed to be able to hit a Quarter at 100 yards, 9 out of 10 shots with his Sprinfield 22LR with iron sights.
SO........your's truly put a Silver dollar in the crotch of a tree 100 yards(+/- 3 yds) from the window and at break we ("story teller" included) could see the tree with the silver dollar. Of seven, only three could make out the silver dollar in the tree, 2 because they knew where exactly to look. I wasn't one of them that could see it and needless to say "story teller" couldn't see it either. Later I found out the Springfield was a Western Field. Funny thing is he still, to this day (35+ years later), spreads the same manure. Ain't life grand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now........ I am amused much more often than irritated by these people.

Edd

[warf73]

Now don't go knocking the Western Field, I've got one that would amaze you how small it groups junks cheap wal mart ammo at 50 yards.
It's never met a squire it couldnt kill :)

Warf

[AZ-Stew]

You shoot Squires with your .22? What do their wives have to say about your proclivity?

Regards,

Stew

[warf73]

lol squirrels also.