Interesting alloy...yellow tinge, acts sort of like tin

[stillhere]

At the scrap yard yesterday, I found a 45 lb home cast ingot of what appeared to me to be perhaps melted 50/50 solder or something like that. That someone went through the trouble to cast it into an ingot was a positive indicator.

In my experience, high tin content gives off a very faint yellow tinge, and is very bright. This stuff was similar in that respect, but it had a distinctly yellowy surface. I thought it might have been just some grease or whatever. The yellowness was only on the surface.

This metal weighs about almost exactly 2/3 that of clip-on wheel weights. It melted at a little below 500 degrees.

I haven't yet casted bullets; I wanted first to melt it down into manageable chunks and see what I could learn about its behavior while doing that. When I've melted 50/50 solder and cast it into ingots, the ingots have very sharp edges, due to the low surface tension. Exactly the reason we use it to cast.

Most of the ingots from the new mystery metal didn't exhibit this, but some did.

Also, the yellow carried over. All the ingots I made from it have it, and it's only on the surface. Almost looks like gold.
163235

Finally, this stuff is really hard and ringey. My Cabine Tree says .95, which nearly off the scale...tranlates to 30+ BH.

Obviously, it's content is mostly (or perhaps entirely) unknowable without an assay or XRF scan, neither of which I have access to.

Thoughts?

EDIT: I forgot to mention two other notable traits. First, it took a really long time to cool. Second, shrinkage was almost nil. Normally, I can drop the ingots from the 2x2 inch muffin trays within 10 minutes, usually less, and they normally drop out easily. These ones took a good 15 minutes sitting in front of a fan, and then I had to pry them out using a screwdriver because they shrunk so little.
Weird, huh?

Casting bullets should be interesting....

[Comrade Mike]

If I was home I'd tell you to send me a chunk and I'd XRF it for you!

Sounds like a high tin or antimony content

[Yodogsandman]

Maybe foundry or monotype? Does it break easily with a whack?

[stillhere]

Maybe foundry or monotype? Does it break easily with a whack?

I have some "half pound" Lee ingots, and I took one and set across two others, then hit it hard with a hammer, and no, it didn't break. Just bent, but I hit it hard, twice. That stuff sure rings, though.

I wonder if the boolits will have the gold color....I'd be the only one with gold colored boolits, I'm sure of that.

[Retumbo]

All my pewter ingots look yellowish

[scottfire1957]

There are members of this site that will do XRF. BNE and typestooslow, or similar, so, you have access to testing.

Does appear similar to some pewter I've melted. Otherwise, I have no clue. The ONLY answer is analysis.


Edit: typz2slo

[RogerDat]

My pewter also generally has that strong yellowish cast I see in your picture, takes a long time to cool enough to get solid. Not the best picture but you can somewhat see the color cast, these were all from hallmarked or stamped pewter.

163256

45 lbs. of pewter would be a really good haul. Wait that would be a freaking awesome haul. [smilie=p:

[DerekP Houston]

My smaller lee ingots I made with pewter look almost the same, I got a 20lb box from someone on here in large chunks and melted it down to 1/4lb bars or so.

[Wayne Smith]

Drop some muriatic acid on it to make sure it does not sizzle. That's zinc.

[stillhere]

Drop some muriatic acid on it to make sure it does not sizzle. That's zinc.

Just now did that. I saw no sizzling or fizzing but it wiped off that yellow coating.

[bangerjim]

An x-ray gun shoot is really the ONLY way to know. You have a lot of it and really need to get the exact % content makeup. Everything else is just guessing! Waste of time.

Does the yard you bought it from have a gun? Mine shoots everything I buy - - - for free. I know the exact % content of the many alloys I buy.

If acid takes off the yellowish (oxide) you may have an alloy with cadmium in it. Not friendly stuff at all. Do a search on the net. That is why I have the yards shoot everything B4 I buy it. I have passed up several "good hauls" because of the contaminated and/or dangerous elements in there. You never know what someone will sell to them!

banger

[stillhere]

An x-ray gun shoot is really the ONLY way to know. You have a lot of it and really need to get the exact % content makeup. Everything else is just guessing! Waste of time.

Does the yard you bought it from have a gun? Mine shoots everything I buy - - - for free. I know the exact % content of the many alloys I buy.

If acid takes off the yellowish (oxide) you may have an alloy with cadmium in it. Not friendly stuff at all. Do a search on the net. That is why I have the yards shoot everything B4 I buy it. I have passed up several "good hauls" because of the contaminated and/or dangerous elements in there. You never know what someone will sell to them!

banger
I would like to have been able to scan the stuff but I don't have the luxury of that since none of the yards have scanners. So, guessing is all I can do for now. What I was was asking for was if anyone had seen this before and what did they know about.

A couple folks here have graciously offered to scan it for me if I send them a piece and I may just do that.

[Budzilla 19]

still here, if you know of any non destructive testing companies ( think piping x-ray company ), in your home town, just ask them to shoot it for you with their positive material identification gun! Most times, not all, if no report is needed, they will do it for free! Just take a picture of the guns screen with your phone, and you have your report! Just my .02 Good luck!

[Lloyd Smale]

yup it kind of looks like tin to me. My tin ingots allways have that yellow tinge to them

[stillhere]

yup it kind of looks like tin to me. My tin ingots allways have that yellow tinge to them
Are your ingots hard and really ringey? I used a Lee aluminum ingot mold and they took forever to firm up and I had to use a rubber mallet to break them free since there was so little shrinkage.

[Chris24]

Looks just like pewter to me. Pewter pitchers, mugs, etc., also have that "golden" tinge. You lucked out.

[Forrest r]

Been getting allot of the old 60%/63%/68%????? solder lately, whatever to old electronics mix was. I turn it into chips to add/sweeten the range scrap I use. Here's a picture of a lee 20# pot full of it with a couple of plain lead sprue's (silver) laying on top of it.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/pewter_zpsmmfrcybh.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/pewter_zpsmmfrcybh.jpg.html)

It has a yellow tint like your bars And yes it takes a long time for this alloy to setup/harden. It's also fairly hard, takes an "f" pencil to put a mark on it. That's supposed to put it in the 16/17bhn??? range.

[RogerDat]

There are at least two members that you send them a little chip of the metal you want tested and they will do an XRF test. You send them 1 pound of lead (any variety) and cover the shipping (about $7 for USPS small FRB).

Looking at your picture you might figure out how many pounds one of your lead ingots weigh and send as many sample items as that many pounds would pay for. Find out what your "tin" alloy is along with a couple of your other sources of lead I see stacked behind and around the tin. Unless they all came from one batch-o-lead it would be nice to know what they are.

Post in Swapping and Selling - In Wanted to Buy (WTB) that you would like to get some lead alloy tested. I expect someone will answer pretty quick or give you the member name to send a PM. That will give you a definite answer.

I melt the pewter into little bars I can break them if I need to in order to add half a piece. But they are also different thickness so I just try to find a thick or thin one according to my needs. I also tend to store unknown or salvaged solder in "coins or chips" I make these using a muffin, mini-muffin, and round candy tin. Each makes a different diameter disk, I can also vary the amount poured which varies the thickness. I should note I don't generally make casting pot size batches, I'm using scrap so I would rather make a larger batch so that once I figure out one that casts and shoots well I have plenty on hand and don't have to attempt to re-create it again. Typically I'm trying for 50# on up to 100# of casting alloy per batch. That will last me a long, long time and remain consistent for that whole time.

I'm not kidding about that being a major score 42# of pewter has a street value around $400 even if just good solder it would be over $200. Now I have sold some of mine and used some too but in the last few years of very regular searching for pewter I think I have 50# on hand. That amount reflects years of hitting the thrift stores, garage sales, and flea markets always keeping an eye peeled for pewter or solder at a decent price. No little old ladies were injured in getting it, ok maybe a few but if you can't take a couple of hard elbows you should not be picking up the pewter piece I'm going to buy when you drop it. Doing that in one shot? Major is the only way to describe that score. Hope you get it gunned and it turns out to be 90% tin or better!

[stillhere]

I've made contact with a forum member who will scan a small sample for me. I'm not going to worry about the rest of the batch since it's probably a good ton or so of smelted ingot.

I sort like with like and mark each ingot accordingly. I also have a Cabine Tree hardness tester which I use when deciding on my speculation about which to throw in the pot for a batch. Sometimes they come out a little softer than I might want, but even my 44 mag loads do very well with rather soft lead, so I don't sweat it too much.

But yeah, I agree it would be nice to know what that stuff is because it's unlike anything I've ever encountered before. I seldom go to that place because they charge me 70 cents a pound for ANY kind of lead, when I can get the same thing for 42 cents at favorite place. 18 cents a pound if it's 'dirty lead'.
I guess, this time at least, 70 cents a pound wasn't too shabby.

Also found this 37 pounder in the big box, underneath a bunch of dirty old flashing:
163659

Any idea what "Special-A" means? This stuff is hard as a rock.

[RogerDat]

You might be looking at Babbitt this page might help Imperial is tin based see #11 http://www.purityalloys.com/Babbitt_and_Solder_Alloys.html

[stillhere]

Sorry for the confusion; but the piece above, marked, "Imperial" is a lead-based typemetal, not Babbitt, made probably in the 20s or 30s by the Imperial Type Metal Co. (base on sales brochures and other literature I've found). The 'Special-A' stamp on it is probably the key to its exact composition, but I've yet to find any reference to that.

The Babbitt ingots are marked QQT-390 Grade 2, so I know what they are for sure.

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

I made 60lbs of Pewter ingots that look just like those. Not just the yellow, but the layered different colors.
I know what I made was 100% pewter ingots as I carefully inspected each piece. My guess at the time was that, being used to melting scrap lead , I let the Pewter melt get TOO HOT!