Ruger NEW Black Hawk cylinder & reloading question

[Swede44mag]

I purchased a new in the box Ruger 45 Colt NEW Blackhawk. Is there a difference in the cylinder of a Blackhawk and a NEW Blackhawk.
I have been looking at the TC & Ruger Blackhawk loading data in my reloading manual's.
They are loaded a lot hotter than the standard 45 colt loads and I do not what to turn my new pistol into a bloody hand & finger remover.
Also what company has reloading data for the RCBS 270g boolit load? I bought my custom brass RCBS 270g mold from MP-molds MiHec.
your help will be appreciated.

[DougGuy]

The NEW medium framed guns cannot take the Ruger Only pressures you are reading. Cylinders are smaller in diameter and thinner webs between charge holes.

Also, check the serial number. Large framed guns have a TWO DIGIT prefix in the beginning of the serial number.

Medium framed guns have a THREE DIGIT prefix in the beginning of the serial number.

Full size Blackhawk/Vaquero/Super Blackhawk on the left, NOTE the round boss where the ratchet star is machined.

Thinner, smaller NEW MODEL medium framed cylinder on the right, NOTE the "scalloped" boss where the ratchet star is machined:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/Cylinders-Lg-Med_zpsoaou4f6e.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/Cylinders-Lg-Med_zpsoaou4f6e.jpg.html)



Edit: The large framed, 2 DIGIT PREFIX guns can handle up to 30,000psi loads, the medium framed, 3 DIGIT PREFIX guns can only handle 23,000psi! So before you go to the Ruger Only or the +P or whatever loads you are contemplating using, BE SURE which pressure ceiling YOUR GUN is good for!

Just because Joe Blow lists his favorite heavy boolit .45 Colt load that shot through 2 standing pines and STILL killed the two deer standing behind them passing cleanly through both deer, DOESN'T MEAN it is safe or even advised in YOUR GUN...

[spfd1903]

My "New Model" .45 Colt Blackhawk has the two digit prefix, and the cylinder as shown in Doug's photo, left side. My "New Model" Vaquero however has the 3 digit prefix, and the cylinder is as shown on the right.
Western Powders online loading data for "high pressure" .45 Colt has loading data for 255 grain and 300 grain boolits (Laser Cast), but not 270 grains specifically.

[nicholst55]

An old model (3-Screw) Blackhawk would have a notch around the back of the cylinder for the firing pin to clear. A New Model Blackhawk would ordinarily not have this - although some very early production New Models were reportedly assembled with leftover old model cylinders.

[NC_JEFF]

spfd your new model blackhawk can handle the "Ruger only" higher pressure loads, your vaquero cannot. I own two vaqueros than are capable of the higher pressure loads but I never load anything but plinking loads in either of them. Enjoy them both

[Swede44mag]

My "New Model" .45 Colt Blackhawk has the two digit prefix, and the cylinder as shown in Doug's photo, left side. My "New Model" Vaquero however has the 3 digit prefix, and the cylinder is as shown on the right.
Western Powders online loading data for "high pressure" .45 Colt has loading data for 255 grain and 300 grain boolits (Laser Cast), but not 270 grains specifically.

My Ruger 45 Caliber has New Model Blackhawk on the left side.
A 2 digit prefix on the right and the cylinder does not have the scalloped boss.
I would like to be able to load to the max charge for a standard 45 colt 250 or 255gr at 900 fps but 850 will work.

After taking a measurement the cylinders on the Bisley Ruger Hunter Super Blackhawk 44mag, and the Ruger 45 Caliber New Model 45 Blackhawk are the same size in length and diameter.
So now do you think it is the small not able to handle the TC & Ruger only loads or...:killingpc

[DougGuy]

2 digit prefix on the right and the cylinder does not have the scalloped boss.

I would like to be able to load to the max charge for a standard 45 colt 250 or 255gr at 900 fps but 850 will work.



You have the large framed Blackhawk that will easily take the 30,000psi loads listed in the Ruger Only section of loading manuals.


I would like to be able to load to the max charge for a standard 45 colt 250 or 255gr at 900 fps but 850 will work.

This is easily done with 9.0gr Unique under that boolit with a standard large pistol primer. This load is actually about the top end for a standard pressure .45 Colt load that ought to be safe in even an old smokeless powder Colt or S&W. It would be safe in ANY Ruger made .45 Colt revolver.

[Tackleberry41]

9gr of unique is not much, I run that in my Uberti top break.

[contender1]

Swede44mag,,, you have the large frame BLackhawk. Load it as you wish, within the manuals. It will handle more than your potential load you have chosen. It is, as noted above, capable of handling the "Ruger, T/C loads only." The load you mention will be a pussycat in it.

[spfd1903]

spfd your new model blackhawk can handle the "Ruger only" higher pressure loads, your vaquero cannot. I own two vaqueros than are capable of the higher pressure loads but I never load anything but plinking loads in either of them. Enjoy them both

Bingo. I bought the Vaquero a few years ago for "regular" loading, and was educated on another forum about the two vs. three digit serial numbers. The NM Blackhawk (4 5/8" barrel) is very accurate with high pressure loads compared to regular loads (after DougGuy worked on the throat diameters and the forcing cone).

[Oklahoma Rebel]

is the 2 digit-3 digit thing also true for super blackhawks?

[gpidaho]

My Ruger 45 Colt- 45 ACP convertible has New Model Blackhawk written on the left side of the frame and the # on the right is 38-***** I'm confused. Is this a large frame or medium frame? Gp

[Black Chrome]

I just purchased a new model blackhawk convertible .45 LC/.45 ACP. I will have to check the serial number when I get home but my cylinder looks like the lugs on the right. I'm curious to see which frame I have as well. I have a feeling it's the medium frame.

[Black Chrome]

Cylinder bosses match the one on the right but I have a 2 digit prefix. Any idea which frame I have?

[spfd1903]

To be absolutely sure, call Ruger.

[Piedmont]

If there is any question just put a caliper on the outside of the cylinder. The big frame has a cylinder of around 1.730" and the small frame is something like 1.68". Those are from memory so probably aren't exact.

[DougGuy]

My Ruger 45 Colt- 45 ACP convertible has New Model Blackhawk written on the left side of the frame and the # on the right is 38-***** I'm confused. Is this a large frame or medium frame? Gp

What does the ratchet star boss on the back of your cylinders look like? Is it the round one like the left hand side in the photo? Your serial says it's a large frame. If the boss is round, it's the large frame.

[DougGuy]

is the 2 digit-3 digit thing also true for super blackhawks?

No sir, not for the SBH because they never made a SBH on the medium frame.


Cylinder bosses match the one on the right but I have a 2 digit prefix. Any idea which frame I have?

What caliber is your gun? Can you post pics of it?

We are basically talking only about the .45 caliber guns here, if it is a .357 there are no "Ruger Only" loads for that caliber, as either the large frame OR the medium frame both are capable of full power loads.

There are also no "Ruger Only" loads for the .44 Special either, but speculation has it that the .44 Special cartridge can be loaded to +P pressures, and still be safe. Since the .44 cylinders are slightly thicker than the .45 cylinders, and those max out at 23,000psi, it is speculated that the .44 Special cylinder should be safe with 25,000psi loads however there are NO published loads in that power range for the .44 Special, and it is NOT RECOMMENDED that this cartridge be pushed to these pressures, even in a Ruger revolver.

[gpidaho]

Doug: The ratchet star is round on my BH. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Gp

[w5pv]

My convertible 45acp/45C instructions say to use standard loads only.It is a medium framed revolver and should be treated as such.The Ruger/Contender loads are not to be used in it.Good luck and good shooting.

[C. Latch]

Also what company has reloading data for the RCBS 270g boolit load? I bought my custom brass RCBS 270g mold from MP-molds MiHec.
your help will be appreciated.

Pretty much all the data you could ever want for that bullet can be found here:

https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL%20246partial.pdf

[Black Chrome]

To be absolutely sure, call Ruger.


I emailed then and got what I consider to be a standard liability stance but laughable at the same time. They could have at least answered my question as to which frame I have. The email reads as follows :














Thank you for using the Ruger On-Line Customer Support Request Form.

This e-mail is in response to your question or comment of 03/15/2016
Request No: 330840

Comment / question:

Hello I recently purchased a used but unfired New Model Blackhawk convertible chambered in 45 ACP/45 Colt. I am getting conflicting information about this gun being a large frame or medium frame gun. I plan to handload for it and need to know if "Ruger Only" loads of around 30,000 CUP are safe for 45 Colt or can I only load it up to standard 23,000 CUP loads. Thanks for your time. I am very happy with the craftsmanship of this fine firearm. I have several Ruger firearms and all of them are great

Response:
We cannot recommend using the 45 Colt +P in our guns as it is not a SAAMI cartridge. We are unable to advise you on a specific reloading data for your Ruger firearm. It is our suggestion that you contact Hornady Manufacturing Co at 308-382-1390. Ruger will not be responsible for the operation of or damage to your firearm caused by reloaded ammunition, or ammunition that is not manufactured to SAAMI (US) or CIP (European) Standards.


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[C. Latch]

They could have at least answered my question as to which frame I have

They probably figured that if you didn't know there was no upside to them telling you.

If you have a new model blackhawk, it's the same frame size as every other NMBH ever made. There's only one frame size. Period.

The Vaquero is a different story. Old ones had the same size frame as a NMBH, but the New Vaquero has a smaller frame.