Light 357 Magnum handload in 38 Speciall brass for 357 Magnum revolver?

[Naphtali]

Hodgdon's web site has a Titegroup load for 357 Magnum that is, essentially Buffalo Bore's #20A +P 38 Special 158-grain SWC "FBI Load." Hodgdon's lists its pressure at ≈ 22,000 C.U.P. Were I to use that specific Titegroup load - but loading it in 38 Special brass - I anticipate pressure would be higher. Since Hodgdon's pressure listing is low for use in 357 Magnum revolvers, would you agree the load would remain safe to use in 357 Magnum revolvers?

I have a great number of once fired 38 Special brass. My total amount of 357 Magnum ammunition/brass is five factory cartridges. The intended use of this 357 Magnum handload in 38 Special brass is in "J" frame S&Ws and Ruger SP101s in 357 Magnum. As Laurence Olivier repeated often in the thriller, "Marathon Man": Is it safe?

[Walkingwolf]

Are you looking for a self defense load?

[Lead Fred]

Elmer Keith's FBI load was 5.5gr Unique in a 38 case
You can go up to 7.5gr in a 357 case

[dualsport]

Guessing isn't a good idea. Call the powder manufacturer if you can. I sort out my .38 brass to use the stuff marked +p for similar efforts as yours. Don't want them ending up in an old Victory Model!

[Walkingwolf]

Elmer Keith's FBI load was 5.5gr Unique in a 38 case
You can go up to 7.5gr in a 357 case

I have not seen Unique in a long time. Most Hodgdon powders are available though. Tightgroup would not be my choice for a SD load in 38 spl. My +P, and +P+ loads are with long shot, and H110/W296. I do use TG in loads for my wife's G22 though.

My +P load for 38spl J frame is a Bayou Bullet 138gn wadcutter loaded over 5.5gn Longshot OAL 1.275 at 900fps. 38/44 load for the GP100 is 14gn W296 158gn semi wadcutter, 1200fps out of 4 inch barrel.

[WRideout]

I can't see why you wouldn't just research published +P loads for 38 SPL, and use that. Is it a powder selection problem? If you want to identify the higher pressure loads, you could simply use a Sharpie marker on the head.

Wayne

[Walkingwolf]

I can't see why you wouldn't just research published +P loads for 38 SPL, and use that. Is it a powder selection problem? If you want to identify the higher pressure loads, you could simply use a Sharpie marker on the head.

Wayne

Or powder coat with different colors.

[boatbum101]

I routinely load 38-44 level loads in 38 special +P cases . I only shoot them in a S&W pre model 23 ODM . I dang sure wouldn't shoot them in a J frame , even if chambered for 357 . The Ruger will be the better bet for hot loads . For my 3" K frame 357 carry guns I use the Buffalo Bore 20A load or the Rem GS 125gr load . Unless you're an experienced handgunner , that level of recoil might be more than what you'd want in a J frame . The reason I use +P cases for these loads is so I can tell at a glance it aint for any of my older 38 special revolvers . Now if you're used to all that from a J frame it can be done . For safety's sake make dang sure these type loads are clearly marked so they don't wind up in a weaker gun . The old Keith 38-44 load with 2400 & the 358429 is HOT!!!!!! To the point I won't shoot it in my N frame ODM . Buy a box of the BB 20A's & shoot them out your J frame . If that's truely what you want , there's a bunch of load data out there . I hope this helps .

[EDK]

After buying a grand total of 100 9mm and 60 45acp cartridges of factory ammo in 20 years, I hate to say it this.
BUY 357 BRASS because some one, some where, some time MAY load one of those loads in a 38 and KA-BOOM. I used to live in Madison county Illinois...one of the frivolous law suit capitals of the country. They invented the phrase VENUE SHOPPING. It is getting to be the same throughout the country.
Another consideration is hot loads in those little guys is incipient CARPAL TUNNEL. They do bite the hand that loads and shoot hot ammo. Load wadcutters in 38 brass,

[johniv]

This situation is what Skeeter wrote about using the Lyman #358156 boolit in .38 cases with the boolit seated to the lower crimp groove. He used 13.5 gr of 2400 , and shot them in .357's and N frame .38's. I have tried to get to 13.5 gr with this boolit , but chickened out at 12.5 gr. I think you have been given some good advice , use 38 loads in 38 cases and 357 loads in 357 cases, as some of these loads COULD find their way onto a nice old .38.
FWIW
John

[Greg S]

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

38 Spec. 158 LSWC Hodgdon. CFE Pistol. .358" 1.475" 4.8. 960. 13,900 PSI. 5.3. 1,048 16,100 PSI.

(This data is from the above Hodgdon website and specifies WSP primers. Velocity data is list as an 8.7" brl. Your results may be different)


Not to sound as a know it all, heck I've only been doing this a short 30 years. During that time, I also did alot of reading and have seen it many times in warnings and lititure to follow the loading tables. If you are relying on discussion groups for your load data, good luck. Darwin is lurking. The problems as I see it will be listed as contributing factors that you will here in court....

1. There is no proof data for this intended 357 load in a 38 Spec case and OAL configuration. Buzzer Sound

2. your initial assumption or comprehension of the reffrence load is actually 24,900 cup and not 22,000....

3. At one time, the SAAMI standard for the 357 Mag was in the 42-45K cup area but was lowered in the late 70s - early 80s due to problems in K frame sized guns chambered in 357 and the introduction of airweight frames. If this was intended to be run in a 38/44 OD or an N frame or Ruger SBH I personally might be willing to work it up gradually looking at pressure signs and velocity. With only a 10k window to SAAMI max, shortening the OAL ect.... it would just be easier to select a different powder intended for your velocity range such as maybe...

(See above)

4. Probably the most scarey problem would be as mentioned above, so eone stuffs those hot '38 special' rounds into a weaker gun and you accidentially bump into a process server as he makes his rounds.







The alternative is to just go out and buy/trade for some 357 Mag brass and assemble the receipe as intended. ///​RANT OFF///

[str8wal]

357 Magnum handload in 38 Special brass

That just doesn't sound like a very good idea. Is there not a satisfactory 38 Special handload that you can put in your 38 Special brass?

[GrizzLeeBear]

I would agree with those who say not to do it. If someone you know or a family member gets your stuff in the future and load them in an older .38 spl they could have a KA-BOOM. Not worth the risk. Trade some of your .38 brass for .357 or just buy some. It's not like .357 brass is hard to come by. If you want to use the .38 brass just load some upper end .38 or +p loads.

[Forrest r]

Back in 2012 brian pearce did a write-up on the ruger lcr for handloader magazine. his tests showed the buffalo bore 20a did 999fps out of his test 1 7/8" bbl'd lcr. His load was a 158gr lead swc hp and 6.3gr of power pistol. It tested @ 1000fps+ in the same lcr and the load was within saami 38spl p+ pressure specs.

I shoot/use allot of power pistol in the 38spl's, 44spl,s (8.0gr 250gr swc/another pearce load) and 45acp p+ loads. Power pistol does extremely well in these low pressure cartridges compared to other powders. I'd be looking at power pistol before I purposely did an over charge of titegroup. titegroup kabooms enough stuff already without any help.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'll confess to loading .357 magnum pressure cartridges in 38 casings and confining those cartridges to suitable guns. It was in the past and I'll never do it again. No matter how much one attempts to control those cartridges, once they are assembled they look like 38 Special cartridges and will chamber in 38 Special guns. While perfectly safe in suitable guns the risk of losing control of those cartridges is too great and there's no upside to setting up that potential.


Now, the OP's proposal, even with the smaller 38 Special cases, will probably still fall within acceptable .357 mag pressures but it will be way outside of 38 Special limits. I don't see a reason to make an overpressure 38 Special cartridge.

[Walkingwolf]

I load 38/44 ammo, and I mark, and store my ammo. NOBODY is going to be using it but my wife, and I. If a thief breaks into my cabinet, and steals my ammo, and blows his hand up, or face. So Sad Too Bad. Nobody should do what they are not comfortable with, but everybody should have the choice to make, and accept responsibility for those choices.

That said TG is a poor powder for 38/44. It will only give the performance of 38spl, with high pressures of 357 magnum.

If OP decides to load 38/44 he should mark the boxes the ammo is stored in, mark the bullets, or use specific color PC. If the information is on the box, illiterate people should not be using anything but factory ammo. I do not use other people's handloads NO MATTER what the loads are, and I do not supply handloads of mine to others.

Pretty simple rules to follow. BTW BB sells 38/44 in Starline cases, with a warning on the box. Should they stop?

These are Kieth loads, cases marked +P, they clearly should not be used in older handguns. Most modern quality handguns should handle them in limited quantity.

Also at one time Colt listed the Police Positive, and detective special were capable of handling 38/44 factory ammo, as well as the heavy framed Colt revolvers. I have personally known a detective who carried, AND used them in his S&W model 36. The 36 did not blow up, or show any signs of stress when it was used to save a nurse's life.

[Petrol & Powder]

Walkingwolf - your views about personal responsibility and personal choices mirror my views. If I had a 38/44 revolver I would load 38/44 ammo for that specific gun and take measures to identify those high pressure 38 Special cartridges.

Since I do not have a 38/44 revolver, I simply load 38 Special pressures in 38 Special casings and .357 mag loads in .357 mag casings. Problem solved. In fact, problem never created.

[bobthenailer]

My Two all time favorite go to light loads for the 357 mag , using 357 brass is 4.0 grs of Bullseye or 4.5grs of Tight group powder @ 780 to 850 fps with every cast bullet I have tried about eight different styles in all, from 148 to 200 gr in over ten 357 mag firearms.

[Whiterabbit]

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/images/category658/357%20mag%20v%20max%20cap.jpg

So, I see NO reason why you can't load 357 mag into a 38sp case, IF you load the base of the bullet to the same location. It's funcitonally identical to 357 mag. Assuming no bullet pull, etc etc etc.

NOW. Whether that's a "good idea" or not is up to you. for me? no issues. I only had one 357 gun and it was a 357 max. It could handle whatever I put in there. no risk of loading it in an antique 38 special or anything. So you decide what risk is acceptable for you. For ME, it was no risk. For you, I will not judge your decision either way.

[Whiterabbit]

by the way, this answer is ditto for 454 cassul loads in a 45 colt case, or 460 loads in a 454 case. Or 445 supermag in a 44 mag case, etc etc etc, the list goes on.

Same case capacity, same powder charge, same OAL, it's the same load. The only short term risk is to your other guns if you have any.

[Lead Fred]

I have not seen Unique in a long time.

Got lots here, cant find just about anything else here

[lightload]

For 45 years I've been reloading .38 spl cases with 5.5 gr Unique and a 158 gr boolit and have fired dozens of 1000's through various K frames including some M-10s. Also, I've used this load in my J frame revolvers without incident. Just because I do it doesn't mean that I recommend that another person try this combination. For me it's served as a small game hunting load, plinking, target, and self defense load. At close range I've shot and killed 4 wild hogs and one white tail deer with it--fired from a 6 inch M19. For these larger animals I suggest a .44 or .45. In my examples I used what I had. Bullet placement was the key.