Now possible to reload .22 LR easily

[tacklebury]

I just ordered one of these kits. I cannot attest to it's usefulness personally, but there's been a few reviews that are good. If I have decent luck I'll pass along the information as I try it. I heard about it in Backwoodsman Magazine and there's a coupon code BW101 to receive a free pack of priming compound if you use that code. Pretty sweet set-up and I cannot wait personally to try it out. Thankfully I've got a can full of spent cartridges I can test with. They have a die also for re-shaping the brass, but I didn't have enough to get both at the same time. Maybe next month will get the die. The mold has 2 openings. One for a 25 gr. truncated cone bullet which is designed for lighter loads and one is a 38 gr. RN. I personally feel that I will probably drill out the mold and make a flippable pin to make HP's or RN depending on which way it's faced. Will try some first though. I may not do this all the time, but it's definitely going to be going into my SHTF loading setup. ;)




http://22lrreloader.com/

[rancher1913]

there was a thread on how to use that priming compound on here awhile back, even had a video. I ordered some to try but I have too much going on right now with calving to try it.

[Dtm870]

seems interesting but like it could be a lot of work for the # of 22 i shoot during a range session

[bangerjim]

Good luck! That thing has been around the net for several years now. I have never heard from anyone that used it.

I prefer to light load 223/38/44/45 and not mess with 22LR's. Cheaper, easier, more verstile that shooting those teeny carts.

[oldred]

Good luck about sums it it up, I have heard a lot of negative but have yet to hear anyone has who has tried one of those things have much good to say about them. Sure they CAN work and I suppose they could be a good idea, probably should be, in everyone's SHTF bag but for general reloading that's a heck of a lot of time and effort spent to make RF ammo, and corrosive ammo at that! I am not going to get into that match/primer thing again except to say that I just don't trust any outfit that resorts to misleading claims to sell their product and those "match heads for primers" claims are not just misleading but flat-out dishonest!

[Tenbender]

I just ordered one of these kits. I cannot attest to it's usefulness personally, but there's been a few reviews that are good. If I have decent luck I'll pass along the information as I try it. I heard about it in Backwoodsman Magazine and there's a coupon code BW101 to receive a free pack of priming compound if you use that code. Pretty sweet set-up and I cannot wait personally to try it out. Thankfully I've got a can full of spent cartridges I can test with. They have a die also for re-shaping the brass, but I didn't have enough to get both at the same time. Maybe next month will get the die. The mold has 2 openings. One for a 25 gr. truncated cone bullet which is designed for lighter loads and one is a 38 gr. RN. I personally feel that I will probably drill out the mold and make a flippable pin to make HP's or RN depending on which way it's faced. Will try some first though. I may not do this all the time, but it's definitely going to be going into my SHTF loading setup. ;)




http://22lrreloader.com/

If you figure out how. I will send you my empties. *I have about 15 bricks in the RL room. lol

[duckey]

I saw that same add in that mag a week ago. Sparked my curiosit.

[Earlwb]

This is really fascinating. I might have to give it a try. I wonder if you can mix up the primer compound and store it wet or not. Or if you can just mix a small quantity up or not. I think that it would have been nice for their bullet mold to have had wood handles too.

[flyingmonkey35]

So as from my original post on it a year ago.

The mold is ****. And have not improved.

For all the work that goes into it.

I'd rather spend my time on 9mm or 45.

But I look forward to your review.

If any one wants to buy my set + resizing die I may be interested in a fair offer. Just pm me.

[6string]

I've been intrigued by this kit since I first heard about it. When it comes to reloading, anything this novel seems to beg for a try! But, I've been put off by the corrosive priming. Personally, my use would be for slow fire gallery target practice. I'm not running corrosive priming through the barrel of a nice Hammerli match pistol.
An alternative to the kit would be to use lead round balls. They are made in 22 cal for certain airgun applications. There was also an interesting video of a guy using nail gun cartridges in his 22 with a variety of projectiles.
So, there's probably a few ways to get a rimfire going if you're SOL regarding ammo.

jim

[Earlwb]

Yeah I was thinking that the bullet mold is pretty lacking. I still have some bullet molds that Dixie Gun Works made from old hair straighteners that worked better, albeit you needed to wear gloves to handle them. I was thinking that the bullet should have been longer with more lube grooves in it. But then that leads to using a luber on them and maybe resizing the bullets too. if I get ambitious, I might make my own bullet mold that fits my Lee or RCBS handles.

If I remember right, maybe there are some shotgun buckshot balls in .22 caliber. yes I was correct, the "F" size buckshot is .220 inch diameter in size. They still load shotshells using F size buckshot and it is available for reloading too. Unfortunately .220 inch size might be a bit small for .22 barrels though as the .22 bullets are around .223 inch size.

I looked up the .22 caliber nailgun cartridges and at present they cost about the same or more than .22Lr ammo, so that is iffy. Worse was all the nailgun cartridges that I saw were crimped like you'd use for blank cartridges. So trying to uncrimp them so you could use a bullet on them would be pretty iffy and risky. Of course with a single shot .22, maybe just slipping in a round ball bullet into the chamber and pushing in a nail gun cartridge behind it would work.

Yeah I agree, using this reloading setup would work Ok, if .22 ammo is difficult to impossible to get in your locale. Right now, it isn't too bad in my area. Most stores have some in stock, but some stores still ration it out. The local Bass Pro shop still has quite a bit of .22 ammo in stock and Cabellas further out was still having quite a bit in stock still. I remember seeing at the Bass Pro store several buckets of the .22 Remington Golden ammo on the table. I should have maybe bought one then, but I waited too long and they were gone later. They still had quite a few big boxes of the Federal Rimfire .22 Match ammo though.

Thus I agree this might be handy for those times .22 rimfire ammo is nearly impossible to get.

One other thought, is that the venerable .25 ACP round was designed to mimmick the .22 rimfire round. Maybe we really need guns chambered in 25 ACP for plinking and hunting purposes. Unfortunately they made all the guns for .25 ACP to be small pocket defense guns instead. I could see a handgun with a 6 inch barrel in .25 ACP being pretty useful in this respect. Maybe one of the wildcat cartridges based on the .25 ACP case. They have made .17, through .22 wildcats out of it already. Being a center fire cartridge the cute little .25 ACP might be the way to go for reloading.

[marlin39a]

I have been following this story for some time about reloading .22 rimfire. I've never heard about anyone that has done it successfully. Just not worth the effort!

[Earlwb]

Yeah I agree. I guess on second thought sticking with my old .22 Hornet as a backup for .22 LR rimfires is a better alternative.

[oldred]

I guess more than anything else I just despise scammers and clearly these guys are grossly exaggerating their sales pitch in order to play on everyone's shortage fears! They try to make it seem too simple and easy and use misleading tactics, bulk "reload for $8 per brick", well that might (or might not) be possible but considering the time and effort to load 500 of those (corrosive) things is that really a bargain? Then IMHO they just flat out lied about the match heads at first claiming originally that priming was quick and cheap using "easily obtainable strike anywhere matches" when they must have known full well those things, the ones that work anyway, are no longer available, how could they not know? I see they have now dropped that claim and I bet they were having a hard time explaining to everyone why that really can't be done anymore but they STILL show a picture of the worthless matches that you can buy today along with the caption "economical"! :roll:

They have to know those things won't work yet they show them anyway although they will now no longer claim that they can be used, so why the picture and "economical" caption? I guess I have about beat this dead horse to a pulp but but as I said I despise scammers and that site is loaded with half truths and misleading information obviously designed to play on the shortage fears, if they were willing to flat out lie about the match heads what else would they do/say to sucker people into buying that kit?

[ofitg]

Oldred, what amazes me is the price ($20) they're asking for that priming kit. Enough chemicals to prime 2000 cases..... so that works out to a little bit over 2 ounces of chemicals......

[oldred]

That priming kit is probably priced fairly enough BUT it is apparently a corrosive mixture, which they conveniently fail to mention just as they failed to mention in their earlier ads that the matches they were suggesting for priming simply weren't available anymore, even though they had to have known. My complaint about this outfit, and I readily admit I do not have one of these kits, is that they use what is IMO some very shady sales tactics and I base that belief on the "used car salesman" advertising approach they use, the matches are/were flat out dishonest as is the "implied" idea that you can easily reload a brick of quality 22 LR and thus beat the shortage. I have no doubt this kit can work and have never said it wouldn't but looking at it realistically there is nothing easy about it and if that priming kit becomes unavailable (that could be a real concern) I know from experience, not just opinion, that the matches they suggest simply are NOT an option! All this coupled with some rather unflattering reviews from people who have used this kit is good reason to at least approach this outfit with caution/skepticism, their apparent lack of honesty is quite telling.

They have changed their website and no longer try and push those unavailable matches, although they did at first even though they had been unavailable for several years, but they STILL as of now show a pic the completely useless matches that are available today and label that picture "economical", clearly they are still trying to get people to buy this kit thinking they can use matches for primers when it simply won't work anymore. If they are going to stoop to this kind of sales tactics can they be trusted? That of course is up to the potential buyer and it's their choice. My point is to be warned, several people who have bought this kit have pointed out the short-comings and poor quality, especially the mold but then that can be replaced with better quality from other sources. Another much bigger problem could be priming compound, that kit does not seem like a bad deal if a person is willing to accept corrosive priming and IF it remains available! These folks are selling a questionable product IMO, this amounts to a kit of components to produce a high explosive and there are many reasons why it could suddenly become unavailable. Once a person has these components they are free to do with them as they wish and that's enough explosive to get someone seriously hurt or killed if misused or into some serious mischief if the wrong people get it, especially if multiple kits are combined! Will this happen? Who knows but in this day of security panic I just can't see a kit for making what amounts to explosives remaining freely on the market for very long, maybe it will but that's still another risk the buyer takes -in spite of what these guys have claimed in the past and (suspiciously) still vaguely suggest those matches are not an option so that would leave the buyer to trying get chemicals and brewing up his/her own priming compound. That too is a possibility but it should be taken into consideration because it very well could be the only option the kit buyer may have before long.

[oldred]

These kits remind me of a few years ago, it pretty much predates the internet but magazines carried ads and there were radio "infomercials" on these things. I am talking about the Ethanol fuel distillers that the quasi-con artists were peddling during the gas crisis of past years. If you believed these ads/infomercials you could (theoretically) buy one of these things then easily and cheaply produce your own ethanol fuel and then laugh at the people who were paying extremely high prices for fuel and sometimes even waiting in line for it. "Use cheap and easily available corn and other grains to produce your own fuel and no longer be at the mercy of the big oil companies" they proclaimed! They failed of course to mention just how MUCH of that "cheap and easily available" corn or other grains you would need nor did they point out the enormous amount of time and effort it took to actually produce a usable amount of fuel, and as if that weren't enough it took more fuel to produce the ethanol than the ethanol produced could replace! Many of these things were sold but needless to say not many if any ever got used any appreciable amount and I doubt any are around today being used. So what does this have to do with reloading 22 LR? JMO but this shortage is a prime opportunity to sell gadgets of dubious value to those scared of being left without ammo and while these guys selling this kit may not be down on the same level as the fuel kit sellers I have good reason to suspect this kit is designed to take advantage of the buyer fears more so than to actually be an answer to the shortage! If a person wants to buy one with full knowledge that it is not top quality (as evidenced by buyer reviews) and ammo produced is of a corrosive type using the priming kit they sell, are willing to accept that obtaining priming compound may be a problem in the future, accept the time and effort involved then yes this kit may be just the thing for those people. However if a person is buying it as a way to avoid the high prices and spotty availability of commercially produced ammo they really need to read between the lines of those ads look at the real considerations such as time involved and continued component availability and what it REALLY takes to actually produce a usable amount of ammo with this kit vs the store bought ammo.

I am not telling people to not buy this kit, I am simply saying that IMO they should look at the real possibility's and not be influenced by enthusiastic and often inflated claims or the unrealistic suggestion this a cheap and easy way to avoid the 22 RF panic, expectations and reality can be two drastically different things in situations like this.

[Earlwb]

The big problem is I don't think you can reload 22 rim fire cartridges any cheaper than just buying the factory ammo to start with. The labor and time involved is even more than reloading center fire rounds. Plus that primer mix is very risky no matter what they say. Dangerous stuff. One needs to take a huge amount of care and safety rules to mess with it. Once upon a time reloading used to be cheaper than buying factory ammo. But the cost differences have closed up considerably. I think they realized there was lots of profit to sell the reloading stuff for higher prices than in the past.

[oldred]

Plus that primer mix is very risky no matter what they say. Dangerous stuff. One needs to take a huge amount of care and safety rules to mess with it


That was my point above about the sellers of that stuff selling a questionable product, think about it, how long before someone get's their fingers blown off or worse? Can't we just see the lawyers having a field day with that one? People being what they are (including me!) what else are they going to do with this stuff besides primers? I mean we are talking bomb making material here with just a little bit of imagination (I am talking the fun type), blowing up beer cans, M80s, etc, it's endless the kind of mischief people can get into even not meaning any harm and it's all to easy to get hurt doing this -enter that lawyer again!

Then there are those who may want an explosive for other more sinister purposes since this stuff is, or easily can be made into, a potent explosive and with multiple kits it could become quite powerful! The point is that it's really surprising they are selling this stuff, even if they don't run afoul of the law by doing so it looks like they could be opening themselves up to some serious damage liabilities. That's why I would have serious concerns about the continued availability of this priming kit.

[flyingmonkey35]

I can tell you from experience this time consuming. But you can do it.

A flint lock rifle and a lamented set of directions on how to make black powder. For end of world survival anyway.
And a few steel traps.

I did it just to say I can.

[Earlwb]

Well back to the big question. Has anyone really done it and successfully reloaded some .22 LR cartridges using their kit yet?

[flyingmonkey35]

Well back to the big question. Has anyone really done it and successfully reloaded some .22 LR cartridges using their kit yet?
Yes I have.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Corrosive or non-corrosive? I wonder if that would be of interest to the prospective user? Since I think it is, I wonder what other points of interest they accidentally forgot to mention?

[ofitg]

BiS, that primer compound appears to be a close copy of the old H-48 mixture used for the U.S. Army's .30-40 Krag - YES, it would be corrosive.

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/priming-mixtures.58110/

[TenTea]

...says a quick prayer to the patron Saint of Rimfire and directed to the good people @ CCI in Lewiston, ID:

We humbly ask for vast, copious quantities of non-corrosive, reliable rimfire ammo, with supply lines and store shelves filled to overflowing.

Many thanks!

[smilie=l:

[John Boy]

http://22lrreloader.com/store/

[Earlwb]

Thanks for the information. I appreciate it and I am sure others do too.

[GONRA]

GONRA is a primer nut so appreciates everybodies efforts in this area.
BUT - cannot BELIEVE anyone wants to load QUANTITIES of
CORROSIVE PRIMED .22 RF ammo in this day and age.
You guys must be really good at cleaning "corrosive" bores!

WOT am I missng? ???

[tazman]

GONRA is a primer nut so appreciates everybodies efforts in this area.
BUT - cannot BELIEVE anyone wants to load QUANTITIES of
CORROSIVE PRIMED .22 RF ammo in this day and age.
You guys must be really good at cleaning "corrosive" bores!

WOT am I missng? ???

I would like to hear the answer to that myself.
If you are looking at a SHTF scenario, just stock up on your ammo and put it in GI ammo cans. You really won't be using a lot of 22LR to practice with under those circumstances. Just putting food on the table.

[oldred]

What the buyers of that kit are missing is important information that the sellers are "suspiciously" leaving out, things like the corrosive nature of the priming, the ACTUAL amount of time and effort involved instead of the "implied", even if not outright claimed, "quick, cheap and easy". I suppose you "CAN" load 22 RF rounds with this thing just as you "CAN" drive a nail with a rock but is it a good idea? If they would drop the used car salesman sales tactics and just plain BS (the match heads for instance), and explain seriously about what is involved instead of all the glowing hype obviously designed more so to lure buyers than factually explain this kit then the buyer would less likely be disappointed. But I suppose if they did that they wouldn't sell many kits!

I can't help it, when I see an outfit being dishonest, or even flat out lying (the match heads), then I would like to see others warned about them. I am not telling anyone not to buy this kit and I'm not saying it probably won't work, although I would have serious doubts about the practicality of any volume loading, but what I am doing is asking people who might be thinking of sending these guys their money to stop and THINK about what they are really buying! Think about what's really involved and forget about this thing being an answer to the ammo shortage, that's the implied sales pitch but all things considered is it a viable answer to that problem or simply an outfit trying to play on peoples' fears?

[lup]

While not as many places carry true stike anywhere matches, they are still relatively easy to obtain. http://www.cabelas.com/product/UCO-STRIKE-ANYWHERE-MATCHES/2237386.uts?productVariantId=4477290&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=42-154218763-2&WT.tsrc=PPC&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=04352646&rid=20

[BAGTIC]

Penny wise and pound foolish.

[ascast]

if this stuff works, it would be nice for the old 25, 28, 38, and 40 etc cal rimfires or maybe the Wanzel

[oldred]

While not as many places carry true stike anywhere matches, they are still relatively easy to obtain. http://www.cabelas.com/product/UCO-STRIKE-ANYWHERE-MATCHES/2237386.uts?productVariantId=4477290&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=42-154218763-2&WT.tsrc=PPC&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=04352646&rid=20


NO they are NOT! Those things are useless, they are a gimmick and while they will strike (sometimes anyway) on objects other than the box they are NOT like the old strike anywhere matches that have been out of production for several years now due to Federal Regulations. Those things there and the other junk sold today for strike anywhere are NOT practical for primers and those guys full well know it!!!!

This has been covered before but this link sums it up pretty good, this is what that site has to say about the very matches those crooks have pictured on their site with the caption "economical",

"Tried to buy “Strike Anywhere Matches” lately? Please, don’t even bring up the new Diamond Green Tip Strike Anywhere Matches. They are the match equivalent of a neutered animal. It looks the same but it just doesn’t work the same"

http://kissurvival.com/strike-anywhere-matches/

Those same worthless Diamond Green Tips are what is shown on the 22 reloader site and they simply won't work! What passes for strike anywhere these days only have a thin coating, sort of like painted on, of the ignitor material instead of the solid chunk at the tip like they once had. Even IF you can manage to scrape off enough of that material to use for priming, and that's a big IF, it would be ridiculously costly due to the number of matches that would be required and what they cost.

So called "strike anywhere matches" can be found but they are a bad joke and only a pale shadow of what they once were, the real ones that would work were gone from the market long before that kit came out!

[lup]

Wow. The layers of lies grow deeper. I though that the matches were still available. Beat.

[oldred]

if this stuff works, it would be nice for the old 25, 28, 38, and 40 etc cal rimfires or maybe the Wanzel

It could make sense for calibers like that where there simply are none to be found and loading a small number would be worth the effort but where would you get the cases to reload?

[oldred]

Wow. The layers of lies grow deeper. I though that the matches were still available. Beat.


Even the match companies are playing the con game!

Ohio Blue Tip was well known as the very best matches on the market with a huge glop of the good material on the tip but they were one of the first to close up shop and no longer exist, at least the real ones. Diamond bought the "Ohio Blue Tip" trademark and in obvious attempt to capitalize on the name now market a phony "Ohio Blue Tip", these APPEAR to have that generous glop of material on the tip but it's fake and is just a coloring. So why would they do that? There could be no other reason than to try and trick people into thinking they were getting the matches of old when they are not!

[GhostHawk]

What I have been watching these threads hoping to see, I have yet to actually see.

That is someone who actually bought the kit, followed instructions to the T, made ammo that actually shoots every time, and posts exactly how many of those he could make in an hour.

From the little I have seen, they look slow, and corrosive primers pretty much makes them a no go if you have anything else at all that works.

If I wanted corrosive primers I have the materials required to keep me in centerfire primers for a long long long time. That might have put me on "the List" but life is a gamble.

Take a common easy to find caliber like .223 and as long as you are not fussy about it cycling the action on a semi auto rifle it can easily be loaded to very similar levels as .22lr with soft lead, no gas checks, very little noise, good accuracy, and more knock down than a .22lr. As long as you have primers and powder to load them. 3-5 grains of Red Dot under a 55 grain bator cast boolit will do as well or better than most 22 rifles. Easier to load, faster, just as accurate, more power. Just have to restrain that "need for speed".

I think you would be money ahead and better off long term to stock up on primers and components and forget reloading .22lr.

Just my opinion. And you have the right to think it stinks.

[John Boy]

I think you would be money ahead and better off long term to stock up on primers and components and forget reloading .22lr. Words of wisdom unless one has access to new primed empty cases - then spends $120 for a 2X cavity UMC Match custom David Mos mold and a CH4D 22LR bullet seater and has a 225 Lyman H&I sizing die. Then with BP or smokeless one can reload a box of 50 in under 20 minutes using a Lyman No 5 powder charger [smilie=s:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Black%20Powder/22LR%20BP/e7b30360-3ba3-41f5-80b9-1bb9cf741094_zps6fb7eb51.jpgReloads for my 1887 JM Marlin Ballard & Stevens 44 1/2 ... 0.989" COL for current make lever actions
Reloads chronograph at 1240 fps and are very accurate at 50 & 100yds

(http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Meadowmucker/media/Black%20Powder/22LR%20BP/e7b30360-3ba3-41f5-80b9-1bb9cf741094_zps6fb7eb51.jpg.html)

[oldred]

What I have been watching these threads hoping to see, I have yet to actually see.

That is someone who actually bought the kit, followed instructions to the T, made ammo that actually shoots every time, and posts exactly how many of those he could make in an hour.


As long as this kit has been around, several years now, it seems kind of strange that no one seems to have much good to say about them. About the best I have seen is that they work ok and would probably do for a SHTF situation. Considering the frustration of trying to obtain 22 ammo and the lengths (and expense!) that some folks are going to get it then why has this kit not caught on? It has been around for several years and yet no one it seems is raving about it, if it was even a mediocre solution to the 22 ammo problem it almost certainly would be very popular by now, it's obviously not so why not?

[oldred]

Words of wisdom unless one has access to new primed empty cases - then spends $120 for a 2X cavity UMC custom bullet mold and a CH4D 22LR bullet seater and has a 225 Lyman H&I sizing die. Then with BP or smokeless one can reload a box of 50 in under 20 minutes

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Black%20Powder/22LR%20BP/e7b30360-3ba3-41f5-80b9-1bb9cf741094_zps6fb7eb51.jpgReloads for my 1887 JM Marlin Ballard ... 0.998" COL for current make lever actions

(http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Meadowmucker/media/Black%20Powder/22LR%20BP/e7b30360-3ba3-41f5-80b9-1bb9cf741094_zps6fb7eb51.jpg.html)

The problem is no one can get primed cases anymore and have not been able to for a long time now so why keep bringing it up?

BTW, those are not reloads! Why do you keep calling them reloads? They are newly assembled rounds from unfired preprimed cases that completely avoid the problems encountered when trying to actually RELOAD these rounds. This seems to come up every time these 22 reloading threads come up even though it has nothing to do with the subject, how many of those cases have you actually RELOADED?

None right? Once you fire one of those things you are in the same boat as everyone else with your fired cases!

[flyingmonkey35]

I would like to hear the answer to that myself.
If you are looking at a SHTF scenario, just stock up on your ammo and put it in GI ammo cans. You really won't be using a lot of 22LR to practice with under those circumstances. Just putting food on the table.
If you are looking for shtf. I agree.

But buy some steel traps and some big rat traps. They won't run out of ammo.

[oldred]

If you are looking for shtf. I agree.

But buy some steel traps and some big rat traps. They won't run out of ammo.


Better yet put away a BIG stash of non-perishable food supplies, stocking up tons of ammo won't put any food on the table if there's nothing out there to hunt -or trap! With all the people that will be trying to hunt for game after a major SHTF scenario there won't be so much as a bird left to hunt in a month or so and probably less time than that! Having a good ammo stash on hand is not just a good idea but it would mean the difference between survival and becoming a statistic but those that think they are going to feed themselves and their families by hunting are going to get real hungry real quick, there's simply not going to be near enough game to sustain the hoards that will be taking anything that moves!

[StrawHat]

Better yet put away a BIG stash of non-perishable food supplies, stocking up tons of ammo won't put any food on the table if there's nothing out there to hunt -or trap! With all the people that will be trying to hunt for game after a major SHTF scenario there won't be so much as a bird left to hunt in a month or so and probably less time than that! Having a good ammo stash on hand is not just a good idea but it would mean the difference between survival and becoming a statistic but those that think they are going to feed themselves and their families by hunting are going to get real hungry real quick, there's simply not going to be near enough game to sustain the hoards that will be taking anything that moves!

Correct. We have a good supply of food available to us but I will still take whatever fresh meat may offer itself to my table, when the time comes.

Kevin

[StrawHat]

It does seem odd that we can place a man on the moon but reloading the lowly 22 LR is impossible?!? We truly are becoming a nation of AmeriCANT's as opposed to a nation of AmeriCANs.

Kevin

[oldred]

Correct. We have a good supply of food available to us but I will still take whatever fresh meat may offer itself to my table, when the time comes.Kevin


In a real society meltdown survival situation the stored ammo could be critical to protecting stored food supplies but any sources of fresh meat will almost certainly disappear in a very short time. We all know people who are quick to say things "like let it come, I can hunt and fish and keep food on the table", I know one in guy in particular that comes by my shop who is always saying that. The problem is that when the shelves are cleaned out at the grocery stores there will be hoards of people with guns looking for food and the vast majority of these will be on their first hunt! Still there will be so many of them they will wipe anything that runs, flies, swims or hops within a few days and then the real danger will set it!


I got a small taste of what people will do back in the 90s during that historic snowstorm that dumped 24" of snow on the small town in Ky where I was at the time, the warning went out that this was coming and that the highways could be closed for as much as three days then the panic took over and in less than two hours there was not a crumb of bread to be found!!!! It was almost unbelievable how people were acting and this was not all that much of an emergency! All people needed was a couple days supplies that most already had but you would have thought they had been warned there would no food available for months the way they were acting!

[oldred]

It does seem odd that we can place a man on the moon but reloading the lowly 22 LR is impossible?!? We truly are becoming a nation of AmeriCANT's as opposed to a nation of AmeriCANs.Kevin

Not odd at all, it is not impossible just impractical for most folks, certainly someone could make a much better tool for doing that than what is available now but so far no one has bothered to do it, you are right it is not all that complicated. I think that by far the main reason this has not happened is the difficulty in repriming these cases, considering the obstacles encountered in obtaining the materials to make good priming compound and what is involved to make it if the chemicals can be found plus the very real dangers of handling the stuff and it becomes quite apparent why no real manufacturer is doing this. Ready made priming compound is simply much too dangerous to sell, being a fairly unstable high explosive, and I SERIOUSLY doubt the Government would allow mass sales of explosive making kits if the compounds were available as a kit to be mixed. This is exactly what that shoddy outfit is doing and it will be interesting to see how long that priming kit stays available! Who knows maybe it will be around for years but I think the odds are that if the Government does not get them the product liability lawyers will!!!!!

[w30wcf]

The problem is no one can get primed cases anymore and have not been able to for a long time now so why keep bringing it up?

BTW, those are not reloads! Why do you keep calling them reloads? They are newly assembled rounds from unfired preprimed cases that completely avoid the problems encountered when trying to actually RELOAD these RF rounds. You throw that up every time these 22 reloading threads come up even though it has nothing to do with the subject, how many of those cases have you actually RELOADED?

None right? Once you fire one of those things you are in the same boat as everyone else with your fired cases!

oldred,
Well.....definition of reload - verb - "to put a load on or in; fill" so it is a reload (Hand load might be a better description). If one acquires primed center fire brass and loads them, they are typically called reloads or hand loads. :drinks:

Now for another cup of coffee......

w30wcf

[footpetaljones]

Not odd at all, it is not impossible just impractical for most folks, certainly someone could make a much better tool for doing that than what is available now but so far no one has bothered to do it, you are right it is not all that complicated. I think that by far the main reason this has not happened is the difficulty in repriming these cases, considering the obstacles encountered in obtaining the materials to make good priming compound and what is involved to make it if the chemicals can be found plus the very real dangers of handling the stuff and it becomes quite apparent why no real manufacturer is doing this. Ready made priming compound is simply much too dangerous to sell, being a fairly unstable high explosive, and I SERIOUSLY doubt the Government would allow mass sales of explosive making kits if the compounds were available as a kit to be mixed. This is exactly what that shoddy outfit is doing and it will be interesting to see how long that priming kit stays available! Who knows maybe it will be around for years but I think the odds are that if the Government does not get them the product liability lawyers will!!!!!

AFAIK, potassium chlorate is not regulated as a high explosive, so unless that status changes the gubmint only cares that they get their taxes. It is readily available from many chemical supply stores; the third link from google took me to a site offering 5 lbs of it for $36.25 (highqualitychems.com)

[oldred]

oldred,
Well.....definition of reload - verb - "to put a load on or in; fill" so it is a reload (Hand load might be a better description). If one acquires primed center fire brass and loads them, they are typically called reloads or hand loads. :drinks:



Now for another cup of coffee......

w30wcf



No they are not RE loads at all. Reloading is the process of RE charging a case that has already been fired, charging or loading a case that is new never fired and already primed is assembling new ammunition even if it is handloaded rather than done using automated equipment. He keeps bringing these things up whenever these reloading threads are started but why what is his point? These have nothing to do with the problems being discussed nor could anyone get those cases if they wanted them! If he ever runs out of cases he is going to be in the same situation as everyone else then what? Sure those things are interesting but they are a good subject for a different discussion, I am willing to bet he has not RE LOADED a single one of them and RE priming and RE loading is the problem being discussed but his ammo completely avoids all that!

[John Boy]

how many of those cases have you actually RELOADED?
None right? Once you fire one of those things you are in the same boat as everyone else with your fired cases! oldred, ... have 550 in inventory and have shot probably an equal amount or more!
As for the subject of Reloaded ... one can purchased PRIMED EMPTY CENTERFIRE cases. Right? And several of us were fortunate to have purchased 5000 PRIMED EMPTY 22LR cases ... enough for me to reload and shoot for many years.
And if you want some of these primed 22LR cases, call Aquila. For a purchase of 500,000 from them, you can shoot and sell as many as you desire!

[oldred]

oldred, ... have 550 in inventory and have shot probably an equal amount or more!
As for the subject of Reloaded ... one can purchased PRIMED EMPTY CENTERFIRE cases. Right? And several of us were fortunate to have purchased 5000 PRIMED EMPTY 22LR cases ... enough for me to reload and shoot for many years.
And if you want some of these primed 22LR cases, call Aquila. For a purchase of 500,000 from them, you can shoot and sell as many as you desire!

550? You barely have a handful of those cases. That's just slightly over a brick left and have shot a lot more, so what has that got to do with folks here reloading spent cases? And when those are gone then what, are you going to buy a half million more? What do you do with those spent cases? The subject is, and has been every time, the problem of RE-LOADING 22 RF by RE-PRIMING the cases which you do not do, you are not RE-loading anything and while your post may be very much of interest for different reasons in another topic it has nothing to do with the subject being discussed here. You keep bringing this up as if it's an option when clearly it's not, is anyone realistically thinking of buying a half million empty primed cases? Even if someone wanted them would those half million lots of empty brass be available right now, I mean while the manufacturers are still cranking out every round they can would they be willing to sell off a half million pieces of their component stock? So what does loading new already primed never fired 22 RF cases have to do with dealing with the problems of RE-priming spent brass? What is your point?

And also what does purchasing primed centerfire brass have to do with anything since that can be bought in small amounts? We get it, you had the foresight to buy these cases, I wish I had done the same but I didn't and neither did 99.999% of the folks looking for a means of RELOADING and REPRIMING spent 22 brass, I ask again what's your point of throwing this up every time one of these RE-loading threads comes up?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

AFAIK, potassium chlorate is not regulated as a high explosive, so unless that status changes the gubmint only cares that they get their taxes. It is readily available from many chemical supply stores; the third link from google took me to a site offering 5 lbs of it for $36.25 (highqualitychems.com)

It isn't, but that is probably because it is easy for the amateur to make from ingredients that can't be controlled. Other priming compounds can't, so it is worthwhile to regulate them.

The reason for regulation (other than safety) is that anybody who can use percussive priming compound in a lot of rimfire cases, can use a lot of it in one detonator, and there are other accessible mixtures - you probably don't want to know about them - with which that can produce a bomb when simply setting light to them won't.

If one is thinking of laying in something against future social cataclysm, I still think centrefire primers are the thing to it with.

[oldred]

AFAIK, potassium chlorate is not regulated as a high explosive, so unless that status changes the gubmint only cares that they get their taxes. It is readily available from many chemical supply stores; the third link from google took me to a site offering 5 lbs of it for $36.25 (highqualitychems.com)


Yes I am aware of that and I never meant that the components are illegal, my point was that the person needing to make priming compound would be left to find the materials and mix according to a formula instead of buying a pre-packaged kit such as that priming kit. That kit may very well be around forever and what I was saying was purely speculation, I tried to make that clear but admittedly I could have done a better job of that and I can see where someone would think that I was trying to say that kit was probably illegal and would likely be banned, the misunderstanding is my fault.

I am basing that on a conversation with the sellers of these same chemicals as pyrotechnic compounds when I was searching for components to make ML caps. The fellow was quite friendly and explained that while what I was wanting was not illegal, as of now anyway, there is sort of an understanding among these dealers that they intend to keep it that way through self regulation by selling only to established customers with whom they have become acquainted with. He explained that while he was reasonably sure I had no other use than the stated reason for wanting this stuff the potential liability for selling components as a "kit", or in some cases even individually, was just too great and also the very real possibility of bringing down the wrath of the law on them if someone uses this stuff for sinister purposes or even causes an accident that results in heavy damage to property and/or persons. Yes right now it's (relatively) easy to get this stuff but the day could very well come when it isn't, think about it there was actually talk of banning or at least regulating pressure cookers after after one of those bombings, goofy as such an idea is it was actually seriously discussed by at least one law maker! Something like that just met too much opposition and did so rather quickly since so many people own and use things like pressure cookers but the general public would offer no resistance to regulating explosive making chemicals.

[ghh3rd]

One time years ago when my brother was getting into Ham Radio I bought him a gift. The advertised item was described with many desirable features, and all for only $25!

He received a long piece of wire with directions on how to connect it to his radio :-). When I looked at the description again, it was all valid.

[oldred]

One time years ago when my brother was getting into Ham Radio I bought him a gift. The advertised item was described with many desirable features, and all for only $25!

He received a long piece of wire with directions on how to connect it to his radio :-). When I looked at the description again, it was all valid.

Lol, I remember a similar situation some years ago well before the internet was ever even thought of, a buddy of mine bought a "secret guide to personal wealth" from a magazine ad that had a "money back guarantee" to make the purchaser a large sum of money in the mail order business. The seller told glowing tales of how much wealth he had accumulated and would be willing to offer any proof necessary that he was actually worth that much money and had done so in a short time, he said he was now retired (comfortably of course!) and for the price of his plan he would share his secrets on how to make money easily in the mail order business. So for $9.99, or some such amount, Tony (my buddy) got this "plan" which consisted of only a short note that told him he should take out an ad in a magazine offering to tell people how to get rich in the mail order business, he ended the "secret plan" saying "the fact you are reading this proves conclusively that it works"!!!!

[John Boy]

...folks looking for a means of reloading and repriming spent 22 brass
Buy this book with many recipes & how to ...
The Poor Man's Primer Manual by George B Dimtreiff
http://www.amazon.com/The-Poor-Mans-Primer-Manual/dp/0879472367

(of course making any primers at one's own risk)
(http://www.amazon.com/The-Poor-Mans-Primer-Manual/dp/0879472367)

[flyingmonkey35]

It does seem odd that we can place a man on the moon but reloading the lowly 22 LR is impossible?!? We truly are becoming a nation of AmeriCANT's as opposed to a nation of AmeriCANs.

Kevin
Not impossible just impractical.

Just like putty a man on the moon.

We did it cause we can. And be dammed the practicality of it.

[Chev. William]

Anyone remember the Movie "the Astronaut Farmer" from the mid 2000s?

another Premise of how Things are 'controlled' that are not generally used.

Then there are The two fiction stories: "The Mouse That Roared" and "The Mouse On The Moon".

Chuckling,
Chev. william

[StrawHat]

...And if you want some of these primed 22LR cases, call Aquila. For a purchase of 500,000 ...

That sounds like a good group buy! Who's going to honcho?

Kevin

[oldred]

Marshall I, and I am sure a lot more here, have taken note of your extremely informative posts in the primer making thread on this site. The thread itself is a fantastic and invaluable source of information so many thanks to you and the others who took the time to share these almost impossible to find priming problem solutions. The Eley Prime Hypophosphite formula seems to be the answer, maybe not nearly as simple as ordering that kit but it is noncorrosive and doable and seems to have reasonably easy to acquire components, this one is definitely on my to-do list!

[lup]

Found these matches are still available from Chile after a search. They still have phosphorus and are the best strike anywhere available today after the real matches got neutered. http://www.amazon.com/Boxes-Penley-Strike-Anywhere-Matches/dp/B009SASN6Q

[Earlwb]

At $36.00 a box for 250 matches, I will pass. You are welcome to them though.

[Lucky Joe]

This was an interesting read, my take if this is for a SHTF senerio. I would prefer a larger caliber such as the .358. The Lyman 358101 74 gr. WC has replaced my .22's on most rabbit and squirrel hunts. From that to .357 Magnum in seconds. And for the money spent to reload .22's you could get into a pretty good air rifle. But it is interesting just not perfected enough for me at this time.

[maxreloader]

Earl, thats for 6 boxes of 250 each JFYI...

[oldred]

Found these matches are still available from Chile after a search. They still have phosphorus and are the best strike anywhere available today after the real matches got neutered. http://www.amazon.com/Boxes-Penley-Strike-Anywhere-Matches/dp/B009SASN6Q


Sorry those won't work either!


I can save you the trouble of searching for those things you won't find any and any you do find will be be like those, they will CLAIM to be top quality, easy to light, strike on most any surface etc, but the one thing they won't say is that they are still of the old composition because they are regulated by federal law! Sure you will find a few reviews that will say things like they are as good as the old ones but obviously that's from folks who simply got them to light, read ALL the reviews!

Did you notice that while the seller claims they are "Matches that work" and gives suggested uses that NOWHERE does he say they are like the old ones, why would he miss that with so many people searching for the old ones? You are simply wasting time looking for those things, they were killed off by the feds and it makes no difference what country they are made in if they are sold here, if I understood correctly it was actually the DOT that did them in and they would have to ship with a HAZMAT fee if they were sold commercially. You can still find some on Ebay, although they are getting scarcer all the time, and technically even those would supposedly have to ship as a hazardous material if someone wanted to make an issue of it. The point that they still have phosphorus in them is meaningless, how MUCH phosphorus and how it's applied is what makes the difference, they all have phosphorous in them! Besides phosphorus makes up only a part of the mix and there were other chemicals and even ground glass in the old tip mixture. The difference is that on the old matches the entire tip (usually a different color but not always) had a solid chunk of this ignitor material making up as much as 1/4 of the head of the match and this chunk on the tip was what folks broke off and used for primers, ML caps and as kids we used them for bicycle spoke guns (anyone remember doing that???) and shooting in BB guns against hard walls.

The new matches, regardless of how good they claim to be will make no claims of having this tip because they DON'T! What they have is a thin coat of the same ignitor material sort of "painted" on over about 1/4 to 1/2 of the head, just barely enough to get the darn things to light, there simply is no chunk to break off anymore. I think that reloader outfit once suggested scrapping this material off but just try doing that! While I suppose it's possible it would be VERY time consuming and would require a large quantity of expensive over priced matches, $6 for a box of 250? Really????


BTW, don't bother looking for matches with a "tip" on them either, most have a different color tip to make them look like the old style but that is just a coloring and means exactly nothing! The old matches are simply GONE!

[lup]

Can you obtain enough phosphorus from a match box or other source? How much do you need per primer?

[oldred]

WARNING!!!!!

I just did a quick check of Ebay in an attempt to find some of the NOS SA matches that have been selling there so I could show everyone just how much REAL (left over old matches) strike anywhere sell for when they can be found, while I didn't find what I was looking for I did find a bunch of SCAMMERS selling new worthless matches and even strike-on-the-box types for obscene prices! They use slickly worded descriptions in an obvious attempt to dupe the buyer into thinking they are getting the real thing, an example here,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-BOX-250-Large-OHIO-BLUE-TIP-kitchen-SAFETY-MATCHES-strike-on-box-NOT-anywhere-/131251240499

That's $76.21 for ONE!!! box of 250 STRIKE-ON-THE-BOX matches just like you get at WalMart today! Notice he says "NOT anywhere" but look where it is and how it's worded then look at the full description he/she gives,

" FOR SALE IS ONE (1) BOX OF OHIO BLUE TIP STRIKE ON BOX LARGE WOODEN KITCHEN MATCHES 250 COUNT MPN 04127 UPC# 025300041270. MADE IN THE USA AND THIS MODEL IS NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION--NO LONGER AVAILABLE ANYWHERE ANYWHERE ANYWHERE! THESE WERE SOME OF THE LAST OF THIS CLASSIC MODEL TO ROLL OFF THE USA ASSEMBLY LINE SEVERAL YEARS AGO. THIS BOX OF MATCHES IS NOW SOLD AS A COLLECTIBLE SO PLEASE READ THE DESCRIPTION CAREFULLY, THERE ARE NO REFUNDS ON THIS ITEM. THESE CLASSIC LARGE (2 1/4" length) KITCHEN MATCHES ARE GREAT FOR CAMPING, EMERGENCY/SURVIVAL KIT, HOLIDAY CANDLES, FIREPLACE, CIGARS, ETC. THESE ARE NO LONGER MANUFACTURED, OLD-SCHOOL CLASSIC "BLUE TIPPED" MATCHES YOUR GRANDAD USED BACK IN THE DAY. YOU WILL RECEIVE ONE (1) BOX OF 250 LARGE OHIO BLUE TIP STRIKE ON BOX LARGE WOOD KITCHEN MATCHES SHIPPED FAST AND SAFE BY UPS GROUND...."


He/she makes a big point to say "NO LONGER AVAILABLE ANYWHERE ANYWHERE ANYWHERE! THESE WERE SOME OF THE LAST OF THIS CLASSIC MODEL TO ROLL OFF THE USA ASSEMBLY LINE SEVERAL YEARS AGO. THIS BOX OF MATCHES IS NOW SOLD AS A COLLECTIBLE"

They are old stock and they are no longer made, at least that BRAND, but they are NOT EVEN THE STRIKE ANYWHERE TYPE!!!!!! But then he/she goes on to describe all the uses for them that survivalists/campers, etc are looking for in the real SA matches, he/she even suggests these are the same that our grandparents used!!! That person is a scumbag scammer and there are several more on Ebay so WATCH OUT!!!

I found several more slick cons selling the new worthless SA types for highly inflated prices and while they are Strike Anywhere they are simply the new ones with a misleading description!

Pretty good racket there, go to Walmart or even the local grocery store and buy some matches off the shelf and then take them home to sell on Ebay for ten times the price!!!! The mind boggling part is people are BUYING THESE THINGS!!!!!!

If someone still wants to try and find Strike anywhere matches then before wasting a lot of time looking for these things ask yourself this, If real SA matches like we could once buy were still available then why are scams such as this so common and why do REAL matches sell for such staggering prices on Ebay?

[oldred]

Can you obtain enough phosphorus from a match box or other source? How much do you need per primer?


That has been suggested BUT think about what it involves, first there's the price of the darn things! It would take several matches to make just one primer and then there's the problem of knowing what to scrape off. This is just a thin coating only near the tip and if you scrape off too much of the rest of the head material it will contaminate the good part and won't work reliably if at all. The color of the tip is no indicator since this is only a coloring and there only to make them look like the old matches!


Why would someone want to go to that much trouble, and no small expense, to make primers that are not only of questionable reliability but probably of the most corrosive material you could use for this purpose?


EDIT: I just noticed that you said "match BOX" but I first thought you meant the match heads on the new type, but no that won't work since part of the equation is in the match head itself and one needs the other in order to light the match. Besides even if all the material in those two strips was usable (instead of none of it) at $6 a box would anyone seriously consider doing it for such a tiny amount of material

[lup]

Is it easier to source phosphorus from a chemical supplier and just start from there? What are the storage requirements?

[oldred]

Is it easier to source phosphorus from a chemical supplier and just start from there? What are the storage requirements?


It would take more than just phosphorus and why would you want to do that anyway??? There are several other mixtures that are WAAAAAY better than match heads so if you are going to source the chemicals then why not make a better priming mix? The only advantages to using match heads is that they WERE ONCE easy to obtain, so cheap they could almost be considered free and were very easy to use. Making primer compound was mostly just a matter of chipping off the tip and crushing the material into a powder that was dampened and used without the addition of any other chemicals. It was however extremely corrosive! I would suggest you read the thread on making primers here on this site, it's better than any book I have seen on the subject and I have actually looked at a couple of those!


For all you lucky guys in Canada (Lucky in more ways than one, I absolutely love it up there!) you can still actually get the real Mcoy! I have been told that Redbird brand matches are still the real deal and although they were not the best as far as having a lot of material they are indeed the real thing, you guys don't have that stupid regulation placed on them like we do! I wouldn't be using them for primers anymore but I still wish we could get them and I truly wish I had of bought up a stash back while we could still get them.

[lup]

What mixtures are readily available today? Should people who want to do this be hoarding something else?

[oldred]

Well there's that mix from the 22 loader conm,,,,,errr sellers. From what I hear, I have no personal experience with it, for $20 or so you get all the necessary components to mix enough compound to load about 2000 RF cases? Don't hold me to any of that since I am only repeating what I have read about it but for sure it's way better than trying to mix up match head compound! Be warned it is corrosive!

To anyone that has used that stuff, how close am I on it? Is that many cases per kit realistic? I would truly like to hear from someone who has actually mixed and fired some of this stuff.


I would think it would be cheaper to just buy the same chemicals separate rather than buy the kit but then again I have not looked into it that far (my experience was match heads for ML caps) so maybe someone with better knowledge will chime in on that? Just a suggestion but if you are wanting to hedge against a primer shortage wouldn't it be much better to just stock pile primers rather than primer making material? If it's for 22 RF then maybe hold out and hope the things become easier to get then do what the rest of us did (that's causing the stinkin shortage anyway!) and stock pile loaded 22 rounds? If 22 never gets reasonable again then simply switch to a center fire like the Hornet maybe? While it would be nice to be able to make our own primers and/or reload 22 RF if the SHTF situation does actually happen or even another shortage (a strong possibility or even probability!) I personally would MUCH rather just have a stash of usable stuff than the raw materials to try and make it! In the SHTF kind of situation a 22 RF is going to be of limited use anyway and it's not the first choice I would want for protection, although it would be better than nothing, so reloadable centerfire like .223 would be much better. There is argument that the 22 would be an excellent "game getter" so as not to waste your valuable CF rounds but as discussed earlier there won't be any game to get anyway! Within just a few days there won't be anything bigger than small birds left to hunt and even they won't last long! I know there's some that will disagree and there's no definite way of proving the point either way but think about it, hoards of people will be thinking the same thing when they find the store shelves empty and they will grab their guns to shoot anything they can eat and probably a few things they shouldn't eat! If it ever comes down to actually NEEDING to hunt to prevent starvation it will only be a matter of days until hunting will become futile and the focus will then shift to protecting what we have and for that I want something a hell of a lot heavier than a 22 RF!!!!

[GONRA]

GONRA's being picker than usual here - but pretty sure when ya'll say
"phosphorus" you really mean "Phosphorus Sesquisulfide".

In any event the ONLY way you might succeed in some of these
.22 RF priming efforts without driving yerself nuts cleaning out corroding
22 bores is to PAY ATTENTON to Marshall’s thoughts/experience on all this….

[oldred]

the ONLY way you might succeed in some of these
.22 RF priming efforts without driving yerself nuts cleaning out corroding
22 bores is to PAY ATTENTON to Marshall’s thoughts/experience on all this….


+1 on that!

Those matches are simply past history and make no sense at all anymore, I don't know why anyone would bother with them now, the only reasons they made any sense before in the past are no longer valid anymore!

They were extremely easy to get at just about any store you walked into, -now you simply can't get the old ones unless you can find and buy NOS somewhere and the new ones are almost completely useless!

They were back then so cheap they were literally free and everyone had a few boxes in their kitchens, etc -but now they are VERY expensive and rare, even the lame new type is expensive!

They were very easy to use, just chip off the tip, crush the material and dampen into a paste and it was ready, one match was more than enough for a couple of primers or caps -now it would involve time consuming and tedious scraping of several expensive matches just to get enough material of questionable quality to do only one primer or cap.

The bottom line is they once were cheap, quick and easy but now they are expensive, time consuming, and very difficult to use if the new type is used, if the old type can even be found they will be waaaaay to valuable/expensive to use for this purpose! That 22 reloader outfit got people to talking about matches again but those of us that had already done this with ML caps already knew the score on that one, the part that really stinks is those guys knew it too but STILL told people they could use matches! Doing that was just plain dishonest and I for one would never trust them!

[StrawHat]

@All,

Here is a thread I started in August 2015 on my 22 LR reloading tests.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/reloading/176543-my-first-22-lr-reloads.html

I highly recommend making and using the non-corrosive Eley Prime Hypophosphite based priming compound discussed in the thread. It works, its safe (you do need to practice good hygiene whenever using lead compounds), its non-corrosive, and its actually fairly easy to do. I usually reprime 50 cases at a time. After allowing it air dry for several days, the primed cases set off fast pistol powders very well (i.e. titegroup, bullseye, W231/HP-38, trail boss). I have even had success making my own Colibri rounds using just the primer to propel a 20 gr bullet or 14.3 gr pellet.

I have purchased a high quality steel mold for casting 22 heeled bullets, and a collet crimp die from "Old West Bullet Moulds" to replace the inferior tools in the 22LR Reloader Kit. The resizing die sold by the 22LR Reloader Kit is OK, but I have my eyes on the 3 die set sold by CH4D. Its a little pricy at $103 + shipping, but it is a much better die set.

Finally, someone who has taken the initiative to try it. Try it and find where it lacks and then improve it. That's what separates us from the naysayers. We find solutions to problems rather than sitting around saying it will never work.

Kevin

[ofitg]

Can you obtain enough phosphorus from a match box or other source? How much do you need per primer?

Recently there was a Youtube video of some Philippino "hillbillies" loading their homemade shotguns with match-heads. For priming, they scraped off some of the "striker" material from the strip on the side of the box. Unfortunately, that video is no longer available to the public.

If you don't mind corrosive primers, that $20 kit is feasible, but rather over-priced. I guess it's a good way for people to get introduced to the old H-48 primer compound.... but potassium chlorate and antimony sulfide are available for about 1/10 of the cost that company is charging.
You can spend $20 for the kit and get enough chemicals to load 2000 primers, or you can spend about $40 and get enough chemicals to load 50,000 primers.

[oldred]

Recently there was a Youtube video of some Philippino "hillbillies" loading their homemade shotguns with match-heads. For priming, they scraped off some of the "striker" material from the strip on the side of the box. Unfortunately, that video is no longer available to the public.

If you don't mind corrosive primers, that $20 kit is feasible, but rather over-priced. I guess it's a good way for people to get introduced to the old H-48 primer compound.... but potassium chlorate and antimony sulfide are available for about 1/10 of the cost that company is charging.
You can spend $20 for the kit and get enough chemicals to load 2000 primers, or you can spend about $40 and get enough chemicals to load 50,000 primers.


Two things about that video, first matches and match components sold in other parts of the world are not bound by dumb U.S. regulations and REAL strike anywhere matches are still available in other countries, as I already mentioned even our neighbor Canada still has them! Second even if the material making up the strips on boxes sold here could be used then just how much of it could be gotten from each box?

[ofitg]

Oldred, the matches illustrated in the video were not "strike anywhere" matches. The Philippinos showed a small box of safety matches (brand unknown) - they broke the heads off the matches and used them for the main (propellant) charge.

For priming, they scraped some of the black powder off the strip on the side of the box, and mixed it with a couple of mashed-up match heads. They did not use a proper percussion cap - the priming material was jammed into a vent hole on the side of the barrel's breech area, and a steel nail would slam into that hole when they pulled the gun's trigger. I thought it was very clever - they found a way to make functional firearms from the materials available to them.

At one point in the video, they stated that they needed the whole box of matches (looked like a small box, perhaps 50 matches) to load a single shot.... so, to load the gun again, they would expend another small box of safety matches.

EDIT - I found the video again, at a different address - the author might have edited it, I don't know, I didn't watch this version all the way through -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFDeh9QsbTI

[oldred]

That is what I was saying earlier, the strip is only a part of the necessary mix and apparently they used the rest of the head to complete the required mixture. Considering the difficulty of determining the correct ratio of the components, both parts look the same, it would be pretty much hit&miss and likely very unreliable, not to mention the numbers of matches and boxes required!


Let me be clear, I am not saying nor have I ever said that this kit will not work just that I have been pointing out the obvious shortcomings that the makers either intentionally fail to point out or simply gloss over with misleading information. I have said repeatedly that the kit WILL work but the prospective buyer needs to be realistic about it! That thing is being marketed as a solution to the RF ammo shortage The very title of this thread uses the word easily to describe loading ammo with this thing when it should be obvious it is not easy at all, at least not the way the makers seem to want to make folks think of it. My entire point is that if a person is looking to beat the ammo shortage and has been lured by the, IMHO, misleadingly glowing claims from the maker of that kit to have visions of loading cheap&easy bricks of 22 RF they will almost certainly be very disappointed. I have several times said I was not telling anyone not to buy this kit, I am only pointing out that they would do well to take a realistic look at the effort and expense involved, fantasy and reality here can be, and very likely would be for most, two very different things! One can not argue that even after several years of being on the market and lots of discussion on forums and even magazines this thing has failed to become a popular tool for solving the RF shortage, why is that?

Also I have said several times that the new matches will not work and in that respect I may have been somewhat overstating the situation, the fact is they CAN be used BUT given the considerable time and effort plus no small expense they are so impractical and unreliable that they will not REALISTICALLY work, I have several times also pointed out this material on the new matches can be scraped off to be used but it is so impractical to do so it is for all intents and purposes useless. As I said earlier that kit maker has folks talking about match heads again but it makes no sense to even consider them now, in this area I do have a LOT of hands on experience and I know for a fact pursuing the use of match heads for primers is a classic example of the proverbial wild goose chase! It just makes no sense anymore! NONE of the reasons we did it before are valid reasons now, they are not cheap, easy to get nor are they at all easy to use with what is available today plus they never were all that good even when it was easy to make primers with them. They are terribly corrosive and not as reliable as some of the other compounds, these other materials are easier, cheaper and more reliable and some of them are even noncorrosive so why bother with trying to find matches that either are not available or of a type that is so much expense and trouble they are simply not worth the effort involved?

[ofitg]

Agreed, I wouldn't mess around with matches (safety matches or "strike anywhere" matches) unless I was in the Philippinos' situation - living barefoot in a plywood shack, next to a jungle, with nothing else available.

Personally, I don't mind corrosive priming (since I'm using corrosive powder), and the old H-48 mixture fits the bill for me.

I'm not into reloading .22LR, though, that's an entirely different ballgame. I've heard that the corrosive salts are mitigated somewhat by blackpowder fouling, and similarly diluted by larger loads of smokeless powders, but those corrosive salts could be a SEVERE problem with the tiny smokeless loads used in .22's.

[oldred]

I can not say with certainty what would happen with the 22s except to say it would certainly be quite corrosive to some degree but when used as ML caps the severity of the corrosion around the nipple and the VERY short time it took to start was quite discouraging! I imagine this stuff would attack the 22 brass so rapidly and severely it would further reduce the already small number of times these cases could be reloaded, however it is likely that prompt (very prompt!) and vigorous cleaning of the brass would eliminate that problembut it would only add another step to an already daunting list steps required to load RF cartridges.

[Duckdog]

I have been reloading 22LR with good results, and have been using the old H48 mix in my tap o caps with excellent results. I bought the kit and also the individual chemicals easy enough, and have found you really need to weight the mix out instead of just using 2 scoops of this and 1 scoop of that, etc.

It really doesn't take long to load a slug of 22 LR up. The kit itself is kind of disappointing, though. the mold is cast aluminum and with proper tweaking, can be made to make good bullets. I think they would have been better served by having custom molds made by LEE than having cast molds made.

I find it relaxing, in a strange way, working with the small components. For priming, I made a small scooper out of a small pistol primer soldered on a small steel rod. It is the perfect amount for 22 LR priming, as well as a tap o cap.

I reload for a lot of calibers, and p!$$ing with this one is just another caliber.

[Duckdog]

Marshall, I am shooting them in my Ruger 22 LR/22 Mag pistol. I was just cleaning it like normal, but now I give it a good rinse with some hot soapy water, then clean it like normal. I do nt wait too awful long to clean it, so I am not seeing any damage or pitting at all.

What I did for resizing was to take a piece of flat stock, then drill 8 holes in it that are the correct diameter. Then counter sink it just a bit so I can get the cases to stay in the holes. Then I use an arbor press to push them through to size them, then flop it over and push them right back out. They all chamber pretty good.

Are you using the H48 mix? It works pretty darn good if weighed out and mixed right. I've seen the non corrosive mix, but there is one chemical I do not have. Are you seeing corrosion if you are using the mix?

[Duckdog]

Marshall. I'm having about a 20% FTF in the loaded rounds. I suspect I need some kind of binder to keep the primer in the rim of the case. Are you using some shellac in yours? I am thinking it will fix my issue, as there is 100% success in the percussion caps. In fact, the spark is very hot!

I'll have to try to aquire the chemicals in for the Eley mix. It sounds pretty interesting. To me, this is very interesting and a skill that people need to know.

I actually drilled out some dowels for handle on the mold, so it does not get so hot. They sent me one replacement mold as well, as the first one finned so bad it would not work, so I dot a file out and actually got rid of the high spots a little at a time on the bad mold, and I have it working pretty good. I found a good heeled bullet mold on another site I might try some day, as this is kind of fun to do.

If you would like, I can try to find the drill size I used for my sizing tool. Where the chemicals to make the
hypophosphite hard to obtain? Thanks.

[ofitg]

I suspect I need some kind of binder to keep the primer in the rim of the case. Are you using some shellac in yours? I am thinking it will fix my issue, as there is 100% success in the percussion caps.



Duckdog, I'd be interested in hearing what happens if you try this.

[Duckdog]

Thanks Marshall. This is all very, very interesting! Now I have more things to keep me occupied, which is really what I enjoy. I'll be googling those chemicals tonight.

I will let you know how the shellac works out guys. It is in the recipe in some of the documents for H48 like primer mixes. They're talking more snow and 40 MPH winds for tomorrow, so I suspect I'll be p!$$ing with this.

For $40.00 including shipping, I ordered enough supplies to make upward of between 75,000 to 100,000 primers, percussion caps, or 22 LR. I put the same in all of them.

Percussion caps and 22 are still pretty much extinct in my neck of the woods, so this is a worthwhile project to mess with for me.

[perotter]

Just as a fair warning all hypophosphites are DEA List I chemicals and the government wants you to have a license to import it. There is no DEA restrictions that keep you from having it or buying it from a domestic source and I talked to the DEA about that. I really don't know if buying it thru ebay from overseas makes one an importer and I don't think I'm going to ask about it.

Everyone here can do as they like and several have bought from overseas, but on this for reasons I've stated elsewhere I only have bought it from domestic sources.

I bought what is used in the electro-less nickel plated process as shipped by Caswell. I worked fine, but I think the cost is higher.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr/cfr/1310/1310_02.htm

[Duckdog]

Well, I think I figured out my priming issue. I did not use shellac, but rather a small disc of paper that I punch out with a small hole punch out of a set I got from Harbor freight. It fits just perfectly into the 22 LR brass after priming, adding a drop of acetone, and pushing the priming mix into the rim. I am using a small dowel to push the disc into the brass and to seat the disc tight. That seems to hold the mix in the rim.

Seems to be working very well! Doesn't take real long, either.

[Traffer]

I learned about the kit about 6 to 8 months ago. I have been reloading 22lr for about 6 months. I DID NOT BUY A KIT. I made my own tools. There is a good video on youtube about the kit. They use Pyrodex for the kit. The best velocity people are getting is about 600 fps. I can tell you all you need to know about reloading 22lr. First off it is very time consuming. VERY VERY time consuming. If you load a box of 50 in a day you are doing well. The cost is about 3 cents per round. I use a different method than the kit. I resize the brass and crimp differently. I bought a .223 bullet mold which makes a 55 grain bullet. I have been cutting them down with a system I came up with that also crates a cupped or hollow base. This helps in sealing the gas when fired. I will give you the key to success here. It's the propellant. Pyrodex sucks. You will be making pellet gun equivalent powered rounds. I use HS-6. I read that VV 3n37 was developed for rimfire so I got something close to that. The factory loads are about 1.85 Grains of powder. Using HS-6 at 1.85 will give you a little less velocity than a factory round. But take heart. A 22lr will fit about 4.2 grains. So you can get your reloads to sing if you want. I have found that at about 2.2 grains the brass starts to fail. I have gone all the way up to 4 grains of HS-6. Nearly blew up the gun and nearly hurt myself. So stay under 2.2 grains. Also the diameter is tricky. Obviously the bigger the diameter the more pressure you are going to be generating. I have gone up to .228" but only with very soft lead. There is no need to go larger than .224" I don't know what diameter the tool in the kit makes the bullets. It has a 2 bullet mold that has a very light bullet and a standard near 40 grain bullet. I make them between 32 and 40 grains. The lead should be 8 BHN. This is very soft. But harder lead will foul your barrel and it has to be very precise on the diameter. And a final word of caution. Be very VERY, careful with the primer. Whether you use matches, roll caps or their mix. This stuff is Armstrong Mix! I do not make more than 1 or 2 rounds worth of primer at a time. And I use it wet. While experimenting with it I have had it "go off" on me when scraping it along a piece of paper with a piece of cardboard. Did you get that? Scraping it with paper on paper set it off. Use safety glasses. I just heard of a gun who got bought a kit of mix who tried to crush up some that had lumps after he mixed it....went to hospital with burns. There are all kinds of horror stories on the internet about Armstrong mix. Check them out. It will help you gain a healthy respect. And one more downfall. The primer is VERY CORROSIVE. After shooting your reloads clean your gun immediately with water. I guess muzzle loaders are similar in that. Some guys take a bottle of windex with them to the range and squirt in the barrel as soon as they are finished shooting. Now, with all this negative stuff....It still is fun. And you won't have any competition for used brass. And like I said it costs about 3 cents per round. I am in the process of making tools to reload 22 magnum now. That will be a bit more worthwhile considering the price of 22 mag ammo.

[Duckdog]

Their mold is not the best, but it throws a pretty good heeled bullet. I made handles for it, otherwise it gets pretty hot. I mix 33 grains of the mix at a time without issue. It only becomes sensitive after the Potassium Chlorate is added. Even then, it is not all that bad. The mix needs to be weighed out and not mixed by volume like they have it in their kit. The H48 recipe really needs to be followed to be effective. I was able to order all of the chemicals separately, which saves some big bucks. The H48 is not Armstrong Mix. Their kit is H48 from what I can tell. It does not contain red phosphorous at all, where Armstrong mix does. Neither should really ever be rubbed on a surface that could create friction. That's what set it off on you. The H48 also works excellent in Tap O caps as well!


I tried some HS6, but that particular powder is pretty ignition sensitive, and needs a pretty good spark to set it off. I had very good luck with 1 1/2 grains of Unique and even better luck with 1 1/2 grains of 700X. You're right, Pyrodex sucks in the 22 LR, but real black is supposed to work great like the original cartridges.

A far as lead fouling, I use JPW on these small pills and there is zero leading. I have used JPW up to 1800-2000 FPS on rifles with zero leading, as well. Good Stuff!

Traffer, we must be doing something completely different. I can cast these bullets pretty quick. I can also size, prime, and load 50 rounds in probably an hour and a half if I stay with it. I made a push through sizer that holds up to 8 shells to run through my arbor press. Super fast sizing that sizes the entire round from the rim up. I mix my primer in larger lots using the diaper method and I feel it is as safe as need be. I also use acetone for my primer wetting agent, and it evaporates very quickly, even with the paper disc seated over the top. Charging, seating the bullet, and crimping only takes a few seconds with the tool, as well.

I have found a member on here that sells a heeled bullet mold of excellent quality, from what I have heard, and also an adjustable crimping die for the 22 LR as well. I will probably order one sometime soon to try out. The tool from the kit is very functional, but could be better.

[Traffer]

Their mold is not the best, but it throws a pretty good heeled bullet. I made handles for it, otherwise it gets pretty hot. I mix 33 grains of the mix at a time without issue. It only becomes sensitive after the Potassium Chlorate is added. Even then, it is not all that bad. The mix needs to be weighed out and not mixed by volume like they have it in their kit. The H48 recipe really needs to be followed to be effective. I was able to order all of the chemicals separately, which saves some big bucks. The H48 is not Armstrong Mix. Their kit is H48 from what I can tell. It does not contain red phosphorous at all, where Armstrong mix does. Neither should really ever be rubbed on a surface that could create friction. That's what set it off on you. The H48 also works excellent in Tap O caps as well!


I tried some HS6, but that particular powder is pretty ignition sensitive, and needs a pretty good spark to set it off. I had very good luck with 1 1/2 grains of Unique and even better luck with 1 1/2 grains of 700X. You're right, Pyrodex sucks in the 22 LR, but real black is supposed to work great like the original cartridges.

A far as lead fouling, I use JPW on these small pills and there is zero leading. I have used JPW up to 1800-2000 FPS on rifles with zero leading, as well. Good Stuff!

Traffer, we must be doing something completely different. I can cast these bullets pretty quick. I can also size, prime, and load 50 rounds in probably an hour and a half if I stay with it. I made a push through sizer that holds up to 8 shells to run through my arbor press. Super fast sizing that sizes the entire round from the rim up. I mix my primer in larger lots using the diaper method and I feel it is as safe as need be. I also use acetone for my primer wetting agent, and it evaporates very quickly, even with the paper disc seated over the top. Charging, seating the bullet, and crimping only takes a few seconds with the tool, as well.

I have found a member on here that sells a heeled bullet mold of excellent quality, from what I have heard, and also an adjustable crimping die for the 22 LR as well. I will probably order one sometime soon to try out. The tool from the kit is very functional, but could be better.
You obviously have some much better results than I do. Have you chronoed these rounds? Also are you sizing and crimping in a press? I have made a crimping tool from an electricians pliers. It works very well. I do not use a press for sizing or seating. If you use the kit, are you using a press to seat also? And as far as the paper over the primer, you are talking about making percussion caps correct? I do all this without a press. As does the kit. Are you saying that the press makes it faster?

[Traffer]

166468166469 Here are a couple of Pictures of my reloads. The left is the bullet after cutting with "cupped base" The right is a finished round with knurled bullet.

[Duckdog]

Traffer. Nice looking round! I put a small disc of paper over percussion caps, and also inside of the 22 LR as well. It holds the wet primer mix in the rim. For my sizer, I pretty much just took a piece of flat stock and bored the appropriate sized holes in it to size the brass. On one side, you need to counter sink the hold just a small tad to allow you to put the brass in it ahead of pushing them into the hole in the arbor press. Don't go too deep, or you will not be sized all the way to the rim, which of course may stop chambering, as I would guess you're scrounging brass like me?? Then flip the flat stock over and push the sized brass back out. I made a small spring loaded rod for this. It really work good.

The nice thing with a heeled bullet is that the heel allows a person the seat the bullet with just your fingers. It is also the right bullet because the bullet is close to the diameter of the brass outside of the heeled section. The bullet mold from the kit has a crimping tool built into it. Again, that could use some improvement! I was thinking of doing what you are doing with a pliers as well, or just buying the adjustable sized and better heeled mold.

I am guessing the time difference is in the bullet prep, as well as the crimping??? The crimper built into the tool is pretty fast. The only thing I am using a press for is the sizing, and that does not take long. I did chrono some of the loads The Unique was getting me about 900 FPS and the 700 X was a tad more. I tried Universal and HS6, but both did not like to ignite. I also did Pryodex.... Like you, it was not good!

What are you using for a primer mix? The old H48 formula, (the same as their kit), of an Armstrong mix from match heads?

[Traffer]

I had never done any reloading before this experiment. I do not have any tools, no press etc. I use entirely different stuff. Basically I just engineered what I needed. My sizing is process is very precise. I size the the entire brass including the head. It also removes much of the dent from the previous firing. If I told you how I did it you would laugh. I am trying to figure out a more efficient process for doing it. As far as the HS-6 not igniting, I have found a way to get it to work pretty well. The misfires that I get are from when I do the last sizing sometimes I put too much pressure on the head and the primer "popps loose". I have purchased the primer mix from the kit but haven't tried it yet. What I am using now is 6 roll caps + about the equivalent of 1 or 2 roll caps worth of fine aluminum powder. The aluminum powder makes the primer burn hotter and cleaner. It would take a while to explain how I prepare the roll caps for primer so I won't do that now. I have experimented with many ways of swaging the bullet. I also knurl the bullet to hold lube better and make it a little larger in diameter. I don't have a chrono but I tested some of my reloads by shooting them into a block of lead and measuring the crater and comparing it to a factory round. Before I had a scale I would just fill the shells with about a little over 1/3 full of powder. After I got a scale I found that I was using about 2.5 to 2.8 grains of powder. At that amount the crater they made in lead was approximately 4x the volume of a factory round. Now with the powder cut down to 1.85 grains it seems that the velocity is just a hair under the velocity of factory. Maybe 1000 fps. With one loaded with 4 grains of HS-6 (good thing I had an old single shot bolt action that was way over built) it blew the casing in half and smoke came out of the bolt all over. A shock wave and gases came back and hit me in the face. This was done at a public range, imagine the embarrassment. I have found that some brass will hold up to a hotter charge better. Remington are softer brass and deform more easily. I am encouraged to find non corrosive primer being discussed here. One of the most discouraging things about reloading 22 is the corrosiveness of the primer. When I start reloading 22 mag I want to be using non corrosive primer. My current project is making a 22 mag rifle for testing. I will try to put together a coherent explanation with pictures of how I resize and knurl my reloads.

[ofitg]

Well, I think I figured out my priming issue. I did not use shellac, but rather a small disc of paper that I punch out with a small hole punch out of a set I got from Harbor freight. It fits just perfectly into the 22 LR brass after priming, adding a drop of acetone, and pushing the priming mix into the rim. I am using a small dowel to push the disc into the brass and to seat the disc tight. That seems to hold the mix in the rim.

Seems to be working very well! Doesn't take real long, either.

Duckdog, thanks for the report, that's an interesting technique.

Do I understand it correctly? You drop the dry primer mix (how much weight?) into the case, then you insert the tight-fitting paper disc - then you add one drop of acetone and push down against the paper disc with a wooden dowel - that causes the primer "slurry" to migrate into the rim. Is that correct?

Is the ignition 100% reliable now?

[rondog]

I could maybe, maybe, see reloading something like .22 Winchester Automatic, .32 Short, or some other obscure rimfire cartridge, but not .22lr. I like reloading, but I'm not going to obsess over something like that.

[Traffer]

OK folks, I will try to explain my entire process. It has been developed and is currently in a state of flux. I can explain several different ways that I have tried to do things. Some work but most are very slow. To start, I must say I had never reloaded before trying 22lr. I had no experience with reloading. If you showed me the tools I wouldn't even know what they were for. Since I have been doing this I have purchased the bullet mold and a grain scale.
From step 1 . Mold the bullets. I have purchased a set of artist pencils to test hardness with. After experimenting with different hardnesses I have settled with the hardness that factory ammo is made with. Approx 8 BHN. Now obviously the bullets cannot be 55 grain. That is what my mold makes. So I had to figure out a way to cut down the bullets that would not damage them. I came up with a drill bit/die method. This also can swage the bullet to make it a different diameter or shape. It also forms a cup in the base that factory ammo has. They say it helps to seal the bullet to the barrel like a miniball effect. Here are some pictures:166529166530166531 The die on the left has a .224" bore with a smaller bore in the tip. So I can tap a slug in there and it will bottom out at a set point. (the die is made from a piece of hardened bolt) I place the die in a drill and spin it slowly while holding a drill bit (a #2 drill bit) in a chuck and letting the die spin onto the drill bit. Setting the bit sets the depth of the "cut" so I can make the desired size of slug. The angle of the cutting tip of the drill creates the cup in the base of the bullet. After I "cut" it, I tap it out from the tip back. When it comes out i have a sized and cupped bullet. Surprisingly this is a pretty quick process. I can do about 3 per minute. However, I have recently had my mold milled down to form 40 grain slugs right out of the mold. No more need for cutting at all. I still want to make the cupped slug so I am in the process of making a die that I can re form the slug by swaging having the cup in there and rebating the slug and making hollow point or normal point all in one process. I have the die drawn up. But it is a 2 or 3 piece die so I'm sure it will take some refining. I will continue with my process in later posts

[Duckdog]

Interesting. A lot more labor intensive than my method! This is turning out to e an interesting thread.

I made a small dipper out of a small pistol primer soldered on one end of a chunk of small round stock, and a large pistol primer on the other end. I made a scraper put of an allen wrench for cleaning the rim. It has a flattened hook on the bent end... kind of sort of. I use one full small pistol primer in a 22 LR or percussion cap. I then use one drop of acetone in the primed case, then use the non modified end of the allen wrench to "pack the primer" into the rim a bit. Then I insert the paper disc and push it in with a small wooden dowel. I seat the paper disc and the primer mix does not move from what I can tell. They have all been going off, so far!!

I can try to get the punch size if you want. I will be out of town until Wednesday night, though. I find this to be pretty relaxing, actually. I reload for well over 20 calibers, so this just seems natural to me that I should reload the 22 LR. Besides, it's a challenge.

Traffer, if you are using roll caps, you are indeed using Armstrong mix and it is much, much, more sensitive than the H48.

If you want, I will break down the percentages of the components of the Prime All kit that you will need to mix to make the H48 mix. The percentages that the instructions use will work, but a measured mix works much better. Here is a link to some interesting reading on priming compounds. http://www.bevfitchett.us/chemical-analysis-of-firearms/priming-compositions

[Traffer]

@All,

I broke in my new 22 heeled bullet mold from Old West Bullet Moulds last weekend. Here is a picture of the mold and two of the bullets I cast:

166660

Because of the small size of the bullets, I found it hard to keep the mold at a good casting temperature. Need more practice to find the sweet spot in temperature and cadence. 1/2 of what I cast got returned to the pot for one reason or another. Interestingly, the smaller 29 gr bullet cast better than the bigger 40 gr ones. Anyway, I am stocked up on enough heeled bullets to do some more reloading tests.

Oh, I almost forgot that I also got one of Old West Bullet Mould collet style 22 LR crimp dies. It works great on several 22 LR rounds I tried on. Gives a perfect crimp just like is on a factory round. Definitely worth the $50 it cost.

Marshall
Wow, You have me salivating. Those are beautiful little slugs. Is is two 40 grain and one 28 grain? I am very curious about the collet style crimper. Could you post a picture of it?

[Duckdog]

Hey Marshall, How long did it take to get them old and crimper? I am really am thinking of ordering one of the molds and crimpers. My guess is, like loading any cast round, we need a good crimp to get a good burn on the powders we're trying. That would definitely be true of the HS6 that Traffer is using.

Thanks for the photos of the mold. I've been looking at one for a while.

[PBaholic]

I bought a bucket of 1400 22lr at Cabelas for $80. That's 6 cents each.

Kinda not worth it....

[Traffer]

I have some pictures of some of my crude experimentation here. 16669616669616669716669816669916670016670116670216 6703166704166705
The pictures are of my latest attempt at making bullets. One is before knurling one after. They are rebated and cupped. I read that the manufactures claim that is necessary for consistency so I did it. The next two pictures are of my homemade crimper. You can see on the close up the ridges in the inside that do the crimping. The crimping ridges are very deep at this point. I don't crimp it tight to the form, it would be too deep. The pic of three badly deformed and ruptured cases is from loads that were around 3 to 3.5 grains of HS6. The next pics that look like a button hook are of a home made powder scoop and interchangeable measures made from 22 brass. The one pictured is 1.75 grains. I made the handle from a cotter pin and a piece of plastic coat hanger. I have another nicer one but it wasn't here for the pics. I have made 1.5, 1.75, 2.0, 2.25, and 2.50 grain measures. Then I modified the 2.0 Grain to hold 1.85 Grains because I settled on using that much powder for now. The next two pics are of a lead plate that I fired into to test the power of the reloads. On the left, the hole that goes through is drilled. The other three prominent craters are from reloads with approx 2.5 grains of HS6. The red straw sticking in the lead plate is actually a hole from a standard factory load. If you click on the pics and enlarge them you can see the comparison. They still have the slugs in them. You can see that the three large craters are way way bigger than the crater with the straw. I estimate about 6 to 8 times the volume of crater. The last two pics are of a seated bullet not yet crimped and a crimped round that has not had it's final sizing and knurling. You may be able to tell how deep the crimp is. The crimping is tedious and takes practice but it holds really well. I know my work is very crude but you may be able to get something out of these pics.

[Duckdog]

I like that crimper! Did you use a lathe for making it? I bet it crimps 'em down tight. You were right... that heavy load of HS6 was a tad to hot!

PBaholic, 6 cents a round is cheap, but I kind of like the challenge of doing this kind of stuff. This is actually pretty easy to reload.

[Traffer]

@All,

Here are some pictures of the 22LR collet crimp die I obtained from Old West Bullet Moulds. The detail should be pretty good if you expand the pictures.

166834

166835

166836

Hopefully you can see that the shellholder has been designed so that it lifts the round up so that the mouth of the case is positioned at the collet. Other lengths (i.e. short/long) of 22 ammunition can be crimped by adjusting the shellholder height.

Marshall
Very nice piece of equipment. Good to see only four Jaws in the collet for crimping. I was thinking that it would take more. I was going to try and make a press type crimper. Gave up, thinking it would be out of my abilities with the tools that I have. This makes me think that maybe I can after all make something on those lines. This is exactly what you need. Looks like it crimps tightly and you can do a lot of rounds quickly. I posted some wrong pictures on my last post. Was limited to 10 pics so I will post some more here:
166837166838166839166840
The last two pictures are of a little mouth stretching tool that i made to open the mouths of used brass to remove the old crimps. It makes it possible to use a bullet that is just a little bigger in diameter to start with. That ends up making the crimp hold better when I'm done. The second pic is of the bottom jaw of my crimper with an empty shell in for reference. i have it pulled back a bit to show the crimping ridge. The first pic is just a better pic of a bullet that is knurled, rebated and cupped to size. They look a little short because they basically are. I think those were about 30 grains. To answer the question of "did I make the crimper in a lathe?" The answer is no. I made it with a dremel. Yes, a lot of work.

[Duckdog]

I like that crimper! I don't think I have the patience to do what Traffer did! I bet that collet crimper does a nice, tight crimp. It sure looks like it from what I can see. I'm torn whether to buy a old, as I do have two functional molds from the "kit". One took me a long time to make it work good.

I shot a slug of the reloads with the 1.5 gr of 700 X with the paper disc over the priming compound, and I think I had one dud. Not too bad. Unique does also work, but is just a tad weaker.

Marshall, are using a manufactured sizer for your rounds? Traffer, the advantage of a heeled bullet is that we do not have to open the case mouth for our bullet seating. You are definitely making some fine bullets, though.

Thanks for the photos, guys!

[Duckdog]

I was wondering if you were using a sizing die you had bought, or if you made one. I do not post size the finished product, either. I will most likely buy one of Old West's crimping dies, and then try it on the 22lrreloader.com bullets with that crimping die. I am suspecting I will end up with a pretty good round.

Keeping the little mold from the kit hot enough is definitely not an issue, as you surely know. I added some handles made of dowels to the mold to keep my hands more comfortable, even with gloves on.

[Mohillbilly]

Maybe some one should try these https://northamericanarms.com/shop/parts/250-22-caliber-30-grain-bullets-for-cap-and-ball-2/ at https://northamericanarms.com/customer-service/

[Earlwb]

Those NAA .22 bullets are quite interesting. But they appear to be out of stock. Call to order for them. I hate to do that as you really don't know when they would make any more, if ever. I always hate it with things like that, as they get your money, never make the thing you paid for, then keep your money for months or years. Then if you are lucky you might get a refund, if they are still in business.

[Traffer]

Maybe some one should try these https://northamericanarms.com/shop/parts/250-22-caliber-30-grain-bullets-for-cap-and-ball-2/ at https://northamericanarms.com/customer-service/
I have been helping a NAA owner learn to make his own bullets. When you make your own you are not dependant on a supplier. Especially a sole supplier who is "out of stock" most of the time.

[Duckdog]

I thought those NAA s were not being made anymore?????? Everyone who used to sell them is showing them as discontinued or out of stock, no back order. Hmmmmm

[Traffer]

I thought those NAA s were not being made anymore?????? Everyone who used to sell them is showing them as discontinued or out of stock, no back order. Hmmmmm
I think they are dangerous. From what I heard, that is my take on them.

[Earlwb]

I think they are dangerous. From what I heard, that is my take on them.

I think that they quit making the little bullets as people weren't buying them enough to make it worth their while. The price they sold them for is really good, so it may have been unprofitable at that price level. The low $8.00 price would have been great though. It may be a old advert for them though.