RCBS 405 RNFNGC for hunting

[longshotz]

Has anyone used these for moose/elk size game? If so what was the terminal performance?

FYI. These will be loaded to about 1850 FPS. Impact ranges will out to 200m max. Photos would be good.

Thanks for the input.

[Edward]

Make sure there"s at least 2 more standing behind it [smilie=l:

[RugerFan]

******

[Chill Wills]

Has anyone used these for moose/elk size game? If so what was the terminal performance?

FYI. These will be loaded to about 1850 FPS. Impact ranges will out to 200m max. Photos would be good.

Thanks for the input.

1850 fps is very fast and a whole lot of power! It will do everything you want in spades!
Starting it at 1400fps that bullet will go right through a Buffalo at the ranges you mention.

Lesser loads than that removed all the American Buffalo, some 60 million of them. Your load is a stump buster.
I guess that is what you are trying for. So you are there.

[longshotz]

Will go stem to stern on a large bull bison. See post #28 in the thread below for bullet pics.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?252224-Bison-Hunt/page2 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?252224-Bison-Hunt/page2)

Great story and a nice Buff.

After having shot "1 or 2" moose :wink: over some 42 years of hunting, mostly with .270 Win and 6 with .375 H&H, but all DRT, I have to say that five shots, all in the boiler room of this critter does not inspire confidence in caliber and/or bullet choice. Granted I have not hunted bison, but moose in the 500-650 kg weight class seldom went more than a few steps before "giving up the ghost", with the vast majority DRT. Rarely recovered bullets on broadside or slightly quartering away shots; never recovered any .375's; even on longest measured shot of 376m quartering away.

Is it the bullet style, FN RCBS bullet vs the WFN or LBT style (Beartooth bullets, Jae Bok Young and Grizzly Cartridge would be good examples of purpose specific bullet design) that seems to have come up short? Certainly the 45-70 has ample power otherwise.

Looking at the bullet photos, they seem to be performing up to standard exhibiting some minor expansion in two examples that remained intact; yet the bison took several well placed shots and still managed a getaway of sorts.

Moose that inhabit soft, boggy terrain or are in close proximity to water need DRT performance from the cartridge and bullet combination so as to avoid a tracking job or a lost animal if it makes it to deep, perhaps fast water, and no boat is available for recovery.

I would be asking myself some questions before I choose the RCBS bullet for moose, based on what I have seen here.

[Lonegun1894]

I can tell you it works fine for deer and hogs, but that's not what you asked, so I can't help yet, but hope to some day.

[sharpsguy]

I basically think that the 405 FN is a deer and small to medium size hog bullet. When the hogs start getting much north of 200 pounds the shield over their shoulders starts to get thick, and can easily exceed an inch in thickness on the larger hogs.You need a bullet that will guarantee complete pass through penetration AND AN EXIT WOUND in front of the diaphragm on larger, tougher animals for a sure, quick kill. A 500 grain round nosed bullet at 1200 to 1250 fps WILL exit through both shoulders and give the needed air leak that causes the lungs to collapse. For this reason, it is the bullet of choice for big hogs and larger animals such as elk and bison.

I was not impressed with the 5 shot kill on the bison. I noted that four of the bullets to the chest cavity were recovered. This lack of a pass through and an air leak in front of the diaphragm is what caused the sloppy kill. It was not bad shooting, it was a result of a bad bullet choice for the bison.

My friends and I have taken about a dozen bison between the four of us. I have personally taken eight. A year ago, the four of us took four bison with six shots at distances ranging from 100 to 192 yards. I used a Sharps 45-110 and the other three guys used Sharps in 45-70. We all used 510 to 535 grain round nosed bullets driven by black powder, and all got complete pass throughs. NONE of the four bison went more than 30 yards after being hit, and two of the animals moved less than 10 feet. FWIW, the 45-110 didn't kill the bison any quicker than the 45-70s.

The 405 grain FN bullet is a good bullet in some applications, but for bison, not so much.

I have friends that have killed moose with their Sharps, and both have used 500 plus grain round nosed bullets at 1300 fps for one shot kills. One of the guys slipped to within 60 yards of a bedded moose and shot it through the shoulders while it was laying down. The moose managed to stand up, then fell straight down. The other was a forward quartering shot at 75 yards, and the moose was hit on the onside shoulder. The bullet exited the opposite ham after penetrating four feet of moose.
Both guys were shooting Sharps 45-110s loaded with black powder.

A 45-70 is the most broad spectrum effective cartridge I know of. Loaded correctly, it will take any animal on this planet. And if you have a Sharps and know how to use it, you can cleanly take animals with iron sights at distances most people won't believe.

[Lonegun1894]

Your hogs must be a lot tougher than mine, cause I take most of mine with a .22LR, and most range between 125 and 225lbs, with my biggest to date with a .22lr being a 350 lb male. It's all in placement, and I almost always get pass throughs on any hog under 250lbs if the shot is broadside.

[Hickok]

I am just wondering if the sweet spot is somewhere between 1200fps and 1400 fps with 400 to 500 gr boolits as to a good balance of killing power plus penetration. Sometimes pushing a boolit too fast can give diminishing returns.

[sharpsguy]

Hickock--A 45 caliber 500 grain bullet at 1250 fps has ALWAYS given me straight line penetration and complete pass through penetration as long as it has a round nose. I have never recovered one from a game animal. I have recovered a 480 grain FN at 1330 fps from a bison, and one from a frontal chest shot on a kudu cow that I found lodged in the pelvis.

The FN works extremely well as long as you don't need really deep penetration on a very large animal. I like the Lyman 457121PH bullet a lot, and use it a great deal. But if I go after bison, or elk, or need to shoot a moose, my choice is the Lyman 457125 Govt. bullet at about 520 grains. I have had excellent results with 30-1 lead/tin alloy, and used 50/50 COWW/lead straight across in Africa a couple of years back. The 50/50 was entirely satisfactory. regardless of the bullet design or weight, I try to keep the impact velocity to 1150 to 1180fps if possible. FWIW, a 535 grain Redding Saeco at 900 fps impact velocity will give complete side to side pass through penetration on a bull bison.

[Rufus Krile]

Last thursday witnessed a 405gr RNFP taking a bison cow. Broke a rib going in, wrecked the lungs, and broke a rib coming out and was found in the offside hide. This started out at 25/1 alloy at 1400fps and impacted at no more than 40yds. The buff was done but still on her feet. The 500gr that broke her shoulders pretty much sealed the deal. The above mentioned 405gr was the only bullet retrieved from 3 bison cows that day. Use more bullet.

[knifemaker]

I have taken 4 buffalo, bison, with my 45/70 and all four were one shot kills. One buffalo went about 15 yards before falling, the rest did not even go that far. I used a Ranch Dog 350 gr. RNFP cast bullet driven by 43 gr. IMR-4198. Velocity is 1850 fps. I only recovered one bullet that fully passed though the chest and broke the far side shoulder and was recovered just under the hide. The other three was a full pass though in the chest. I do not believe you need a bigger bullet then your 405 gr. RNFP. Bullet placement is still the key to humane one shot kills.
I have never hunted moose, but talking to guys who have killed moose and buffalo, have told me that buffalo are far tougher to drop then a moose is.

[TXGunNut]

I am just wondering if the sweet spot is somewhere between 1200fps and 1400 fps with 400 to 500 gr boolits as to a good balance of killing power plus penetration. Sometimes pushing a boolit too fast can give diminishing returns.

I believe you're right, seem to recall a pretty good write-up about heavy 45's penetrating LESS at higher velocities. I use a lighter (350 gr) RD boolit on big TX hogs and our little white-tails. Never had one of my lead boolits fail to penetrate the "armor" of a big boar but that doesn't help our OP.
I wish I could remember the member who posted about shooting moose with a 45-70. Haven't seen a post from him in awhile. Seem to recall his loads were 1400-1500 and they worked quite well.

[35Whelen]

Longshotz.....have a very good read here. Its the information about diminishing returns on higher velocity and heavy for caliber boolits http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.html enjoy the read.....it opened my eyes and gave me new found respect for the 45-70 and big bullets at moderate velocities

[longshotz]

Longshotz.....have a very good read here. Its the information about diminishing returns on higher velocity and heavy for caliber boolits http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.html enjoy the read.....it opened my eyes and gave me new found respect for the 45-70 and big bullets at moderate velocities

I had read that article when first considering a 45-70 a few years back. Like you, I too found it quite convincing; along with other data researched from various sources that supported the "modest velocity" idea.

Not trying to be dismissive, but through and through penetration can be achieved by modern archery equipment, the quarry succumbing to a slow, lingering and quite likely, excruciatingly painful death.

Conversely, the high impact velocity of bullets creates massive internal damage, with some organs literally destroyed. Certainly my .270 Win. loaded with homogeneous or bonded bullets constructed for large ungulates, this is typical performance out to the 175m mark. Accompanied by complete penetration this is a deadly combination for quick lethality; ditto for my .375 though the amount of internal (organ) destruction is noticeably less. The .375 however, has a permanent wound channel about twice the .270 size, yet both are decisive killers in their own right.

I have included an excerpt from Terminal Ballistic Research website which seems to bear out my experience. The indications are that while cast bullets at "modest velocities" are penetrators supreme, the lack of sufficient organ destruction with subsequent prolonged death, at least in the case of the bison herein discussed is readily apparent

Medium game - as indicated in the excerpt - -notwithstanding, performance of both the .270 and .375 mirror the excerpt from Terminal Ballistic Research.

I would speculate that a 300 to 350gr cast hunting specific design with an impact velocity around 1800 FPS for moose would be the bullet of choice; if I choose to use cast over jacketed.

Terminal Ballistic Research quote:
Generally speaking, using soft, fast expanding jacketed bullets on medium game, between impact velocities of 2500fps and 1700fps, the .45-70 produces excellent hydro-static shock/ instant collapse, broad disproportionate wounding similar to the .270Win at close ranges and is very forgiving with shot placement. Penetration on raking shots is not the greatest at impact velocities of between 2500fps and 2000fps however wounds from tail on shots are usually severe enough to anchor game without risk of a wounded animal escaping to die slowly. At 2000fps and below, penetration becomes quite outstanding providing suitable projectiles are used.

[Lonegun1894]

Longshotz,
If you want a "soft, fast expanding" bullet in the 300-350gr weight range, you may want to consider the Lyman 457122HP, but don't expect pass throughs on buffalo since it was designed for hunting deer and such. I use it on deer and hogs and it works great, but if you drive it too fast, it will eventually get to the point of acting like a varmint bullet and just blow up without penetrating much. My load pushes it to 1450fps and it does great. I'm not sure I would want to push it over 1600fps though.

[Edward]

My 475 gr cedar shaft went thru a pig maybe 120-130 lb front shoulder and exited the gut on the opposite side at 189 fps,
(It ain"t kevlar) :bigsmyl2:

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Longshotz,

I much prefer a bullet with a bit larger meplat/Wide Flat Nose, but there is a shooter/hunter on this forum with a huge amount of hunting experience that has good things to say about the RCBS 405gr.

Now, it has been pretty well proven that velocities of much above 1700fps bring diminishing returns in that penetration begins to suffer as the velocity increases.

That same shooter/hunter along with Bruce (BABore) both told me, when I was searching for a new mold, that bullets of 400+ grains of weight tended to shoot better in the 45/70 then bullets of lighter weight. At that time Bruce was making HIGH quality bullet molds and I had him make a 4 cavity mold for a 465gr Wide Flat Nose gas check bullet that I propel out the 22" tube on my RUGER #1 at 1650fps.

My results on deer and elk have been nothing short of awesome. The typical result on the growing pile of deer taken has been a bang/flop, the exception being one that I hit just a touch far back and it ran a short distance. Both elk taken with this bullet and load were down in less time then it takes to tell about it.

So, your in the right ball park with a bullet of 400 + grains, but I'd throttle it back aways and choose a bullet profile with a bit larger meplat.

Tom at Accurate Molds can fill the mold need with his quality product. I have a number of his molds in 4 an 5 cavity and quality is always high and turn around quick.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[JimA]

Not trying to be dismissive, but through and through penetration can be achieved by modern archery equipment, the quarry succumbing to a slow, lingering and quite likely, excruciatingly painful death.


In my experience, animals hit with a sharp broadhead in the heart/lung area die just as quickly as gunshot ones. Slow, lingering deaths are attributed to poor shot placement regardless of the weapon used.

[Lonegun1894]

Jim,
I agree. I know the ones i shoot with a bow don't go any further than the ones I shoot with a gun. The difference being you can break the major bones to drop them in place if using a gun big enough to do it, which is a shot I won't try with a bow.

[Geezer in NH]

I have killed 2 moose with a RB from a flintlock. Both balls exited. Dead is dead. Hit in the vital area is the best advise.

Do not take chancy shot's with the biggest rifle or magnum.

A 45 405 bullet will kill anything in NA you shoot at when you do your part. When you cannot do your part don't shoot.

With that do what you want.

[45stomp]

1600 FPS air cooled ww RCBS 405(425 grains)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/45stomp/DSCN1118.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/45stomp/media/DSCN1118.jpg.html)


425 grain MM similar to rcbs 405. air cooled 50-50 WW/PB


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/45stomp/PA3004682_zpsalg5r007.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/45stomp/media/PA3004682_zpsalg5r007.jpg.html)

They work just fine.
Darcy:drinks:

[dh2]

I have used them for deer and hog, only problem is I have not found any hog tough enough to stop it, the boolit always went straight throught, with a dead critter not far away, I went to an NOE .460 - 405Gr HP to get tighter on the rifle bore and more expansion. would have stayed with the RCBS mold if it would have dropped .460

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

With a Wide Flat Nose, or large meplat bullet, there is no need for expansion, if it happens , ok, but it not, the large meplat will do what it was designed to do and dead critter.

AS per bullet size, Accurate Molds and I suspect NOE and likely other mold makers will make a bullet to drop at the needed size.

Just tell them what you want and the alloy in use and there you are.

If you change alloy, well then your on your own as per the size the bullet drops.

It takes a lot to stop a .45 caliber cast bullet of 400 + grains in weight, but I wonder what the result would have been if a Wide Flat Nose bullet of the same weight had been used on the hog as apposed to what apparently was a Round Nose Flat Point.

I venture the some what educated guess that the end result would have nothing less then that seen with the RNFP and the odds are it may well have been more dramatic.

And yes, I have seen enough results on deer and elk to be highly impressed with the WFN bullet profile.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[richhodg66]

1600 FPS air cooled ww RCBS 405(425 grains)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/45stomp/DSCN1118.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/45stomp/media/DSCN1118.jpg.html)


425 grain MM similar to rcbs 405. air cooled 50-50 WW/PB


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/45stomp/PA3004682_zpsalg5r007.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/45stomp/media/PA3004682_zpsalg5r007.jpg.html)

They work just fine.
Darcy:drinks:

Those are some cool pictures! Man, that's a lot of work and a lot of meat there.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

OH my yes, that is a lot of work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The fun was over with the trigger pull.

But the taste is excellent!

Took my once in a life time Idaho bull moose Sept 29, 1995 and even with it being the smallest of the three sub species, according to the local grain elevator scales it weighed 800lbs field dressed.

That was gutted and legs off at the knees.

My wife took her once in a life time bull the next year, and while the rack was more typical and a bit wider then mine, it weighted about a hundred lb. less as I recall.

I doubt the two shown in the recent posts weighed any less! And yes the work begins when the trigger is pulled.

I had hoped to take my 45/70 after an Idaho Cow, but age has caught up with me and I don't plan to apply again. Should I get another cow elk, that will be all I can deal with even with help.

My "feeling" after my limited experience with moose is that, they go down pretty easily, so my experience with my 465gr Wide Flat Nose at 1650fps on a couple of elk indicates a moose would be a piece of cake.

Yep, it would be up to the task for moose and anything else that walks North America!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[45stomp]

Both those bulls went 700#+ for the 4 quarters......without the hide, head, etc.
The one in the snow I was hunting solo:holysheep

Darcy

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Even with help, you had your work cut out for you!

Way to go!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[tdoyka]

way to go 45stomp!!!

i agree with CDOC completely. even tho i hunt mostly deer, a WFN does alot of "damage". well, at least to me!!![smilie=l:

i'm not sure if a ranch dog is a wfn boolit, but it should be. i use them in .30 cal(165gr ranch dog) and .44 cal(275gr ranch dog). i am currently trying my 444 in 280gr gc wfn(lyman #2). the ranch dogs use clip on ww(around 12bhn) and the wfn goes around 15bhn.

since a deer doesn't have what i'd call very heavy bone(elk or moose), i can go around the bhn and use everything from pure lead to lyman #2 and still use complete pentration on deer. i self impose my limit on how far i can shoot, 150 yards rifle, 50 yards pistol(i hope).

wow! still a great moose!!!!

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Early in my 45/70 experience, I had yet to put the years long experience with typical centerfire high velocity rifles shooting expanding "J" bullets behind me.

The first deer was taken with a 355gr Wide Flat Nose cast at a muzzle velocity of just over 2300fps.

BIG mistake, Huge wound channel!!!!!!!!! Wondered just what I'd turn loose on the game population. Had read many times about eating right up to the hole with cast bullets but NEVER dreamed I'd see such a big hole!

The WFN is highly effective, and warp velocities with that bullet are not only NOT needed, but you may well not like the result.

The WFN needs no expansion to be effective, that is what the large meplat is for!

Since that first year/season, I've moved on to a 465gr WFN at a velocity of 1650fps and it is nothing short of awesome on deer and elk, but without the over kill of the lighter and MUCH faster bullet used the first year.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[W.R.Buchanan]

So what makes the biggest hole in the Moose. A 300 gr, 400 gr or 500 gr 45 cal boolit?

I thought they'd all make the same size hole. I figure that you'd get complete pass thru with any of them.

Am I missing something?

I am hoping to go on a Elk Hunt in CO this year. I will be using my Marlin 1895 CB with RCBS .45-300FNGC except mine drop at 330 gr. I have been developing this load for a few weeks now and have gotten it and the gun up to about 1550 fps. Just installed a Mercury Recoil Dampener last week which got the gun to 8Lb 1 oz. and will shoot the whole mess on paper this weekend out to 200 yards to finalize the zero and plot the trajectory..

I could also use RCBS .45-405 FNGC which is the same boolit but longer in the body with more driving bands. The 500 gr version is more of the same with more driving bands. All these boolits load to the same OAL and function perfectly in Leverguns which is exactly what they were designed to do,,, Many, many years ago. The design has been around for a lot longer than I have!

I have every confidence that either the 300 or 400 gr boolits will perform as advertised. I don't see needing a 500 gr boolit as I doubt I could shoot more than one.

I know Garrett has some 540 gr Boolits they call Sledgehammers, that are loaded to 1550 fps. I think they'd make an impression,,, at both ends.

I have no big game hunting experience to speak of as I have never had the opportunity to hunt big game other than a Texas Whitetail in 1971 that I missed and my roommate got. Weighed in at whopping 105 lbs! I had a .243 and missed high. He had a .243 and hit the mark. So for a 105 lb Deer a 100 gr bullet was more than enough.

However I see a lot of game killed on TV with both Rifles (usually .300 Win Mags) or Bows and Arrows. The animals which are shot in the right place with either, usually die in 15 seconds or less. The ones that aren't hit right can go on for days. All these guys use way more gun that I would think necessary for the animals they are hunting as everything in N/A has been taken many times over for 100 years now with .30-30's, .30-06's .270, and 25 other calibers that are not Magnums. Seems like they all work pretty well as long as the shots are placed right.

In Canada it would be considered to be unpatriotic to hunt with anything other than a .303 British, I have 150, 174gr RN and 215 gr RN bullets for that gun. My Canadian buds tell me the 174's take Moose all the time, and when I ask about the 215gr Woodleigh's, they say they are for "Really Big Moose!" At 100 yards those bullets are only running about 1700-1800 fps. Hardly Magnum Velocities.

As someone stated earlier the .45-70 had taken every animal on earth by 1900. Those were mostly 405 gr boolits running 12-1300 fps. fired from either Single Shots or Lever Guns.

Is there not enough proof in existence that they work fine as long as you hit the mark?

I tend to view being hit by a relatively slow moving .45 caliber Rifle Boolit to being driven thru with a piece of 1/2 steel rod. The target ends up with a 1/2" hole thru it. Being shot with a High Velocity Rifle bullet is more like having something blow up in your chest.

So does the double lung shot simply deflate the lungs and cause suffocation or does the critter bleed out and drown? In either case it seems like the least amount of trauma would be preferable from a meat getting stand point. I see little point in more powerful rounds when all these others have done the job for over 100 years.

Am I missing something?

The boolit on the left is a NOE 425 gr FNGC and the one on the right is a RCBS.45-300 330 gr FNGC. Will these work? Those are actually 1 oz and 3/4 oz.

Randy

[tdoyka]

my 30-40 krag goes 1800fps and my 444 marlin goes 2000fps. my 45-70 that using a 405gr fbfn goes around 1400fps. while my 44 mag with a 250gr mihek hp goes around 1000-1100fps.

i'm going to see if the 444 can get it accurately (280gr gc wfn) to go around 1800fps. also i've been thinking about a 330gr gould hp for my 45-70 at around 1400fps.

i should be at blackpowder soon!!![smilie=l:

[white eagle]

Its all preference what ever your rifle shoots most accurately
confidence goes along way in the hunting fields
good hunting

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

WR,

Yes, the dia. is the same for the different weights, but what I have found is that impact velocity plays a BIG part!

The use of my 465gr Wide Flat Nose cast at 1650fps has been just so much more satisfactory then the 355 grain I first hunted with!!!!!!!! Long and deep penetration, but not the overkill/huge wound channel of the lighter bullet at 2300fps.

The 425gr you show would get my vote over the 330gr. Larger meplat and heavier weight, and what is the point of the lighter bullet when the heavier choice will not only NOT be potentially as destructive if you push the velocity to it's potential, but the heavier weight will retain velocity and energy better then the lighter bullet.

Also, forget H.P. bullets, there is no need for expansion with the WFN. If it happens, OK, but the large meplat does the work.

todoka, I am seeing velocities of 1700fps and above with a RUGER 77/44 rifle using a 280gr wfn cast. 1800 from a triple 4 should be a piece of cake! The bullet is from an Accurate Mold .444 mold.

ATTACHMENT ---- The before and after photograph is of my 465gr WFN cast. Allow of 50/50 - Wheel Weights/lead water quenched as the bullet fall from the mold. Never expected to find one of these bullets, but this one traveled a Looooong ways through some really heavy going in a big cow elk on a quartering shot. Had it not taken out the big/heavy upper front leg bone I'd never have found it. "After" weight - 327.9gr. Yep, your 425gr bullet gets my vote.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

164945

[45stomp]

FWIW the bull in the burn stopped 2 of those 425 grain 50-50 bullets. Bullet temper and velocity play a huge role in performance on game. I have killed a good number of critters with cast bullets, and you need to balance speed to bullet temper. I know 425 grains at 8 to 10 BHN and 1500 to 1700 kills stuff consistently. I did not like hard cast WDWW on game at 1500+ FPS......never found a boolit, but had a few longer blood trails.

Darcy

[taco650]

1600 FPS air cooled ww RCBS 405(425 grains)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/45stomp/DSCN1118.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/45stomp/media/DSCN1118.jpg.html)


425 grain MM similar to rcbs 405. air cooled 50-50 WW/PB


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/45stomp/PA3004682_zpsalg5r007.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/45stomp/media/PA3004682_zpsalg5r007.jpg.html)

They work just fine.
Darcy:drinks:

Nice! Guess you don't need a fancy scope to kill moose either. BTW, what rifles are those?

[sharpsguy]

Shoot the 425 grain bullet at 1400 fps and be happy. If you are worried, shoot the 500 grain bullet at 1250 fps and be very happy.

[Lonegun1894]

Taco650,
The first one I bet is a H&R Buffalo Classic, but the second, I'd like to know too.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Thanks guys: The reason why I have been shooting the 300 gr boolit is because until I got the Velocity up to where it is now the Trajectory was so tall it was unusable for Short Range Silhouette. I figured that the 425 would be worse, so I haven't started working on it yet. Also the mould is a 2 cav. Solid/Lyman Style HP and is not very cooperative. I have gotten about 12 usable boolits out of it in it's history. It is impossible to keep up to temp and the Lyman Style HP pin is useless. It's going away soon and will be replaced with a Steel or Brass mould that drops good solids.

I will still load some of these and check how they feed in the Marlin. The RCBS boolits feed perfectly and you can shuck them thru the action at Cowboy Action Speeds with no problem. Very satisfying for follow up shots.

Randy

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I hear good things about NOE molds, but I have had very good results with Tom at Accurate Molds.

Fast turn around and a good product.

I typically buy 4 - 5 cavity molds

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[taco650]

Taco650,
The first one I bet is a H&R Buffalo Classic, but the second, I'd like to know too.

I think you're right on the first one.

[45stomp]

Taco650,
The first one I bet is a H&R Buffalo Classic, but the second, I'd like to know too.

Buff classic in the first pic. Home brewed falling block(my own design) that I made from scratch for the second.
And a different homebrewed falling block for this goat last august.

I think goats are tougher to kill than moose..... this one went about 10 steps. with both shoulders smashed.
Darcy
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/45stomp/IMG_0470sm_zpsyekqlg52.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/45stomp/media/IMG_0470sm_zpsyekqlg52.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/45stomp/IMG_0473sm_zpsldchfvj6.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/45stomp/media/IMG_0473sm_zpsldchfvj6.jpg.html)

[taco650]

45stomp,

Any chance you'll be making more of your falling blocks?

Yes, I've heard goats were tough too although never shot one. A friend of mine told me about a regular farm goat he had that he had to put down one time-took six or seven solid hits from his 9mm at close range before giving up the ghost.

[45stomp]

[QUOTE=taco650;3599883]45stomp,

Any chance you'll be making more of your falling blocks?
[QUOTE]

I am rebuilding/engraving the octagon barrel one, and after that do not plan to build another large centerfire......I have made 3.
I am planning a 32 S+W long, small game centerfire, and maybe a rimfire or 2.
Big investment in time to build just one of them.
Cheers,
Darcy

[Lonegun1894]

I gotta ask... Think there's any chance you could take some photos of the build along the way? It's beyond my skill level, but always good to see that kind of work being done and get to learn something along the way.

[taco650]

I gotta ask... Think there's any chance you could take some photos of the build along the way? It's beyond my skill level, but always good to see that kind of work being done and get to learn something along the way.

+1, it would be a nice thread for the "Special Projects" section.

[Maineboy]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?216377-Maine-moose-hunt-2013
You should have no trouble killing a moose with that big RCBS boolit. Here's a link to my successful hunt with that boolit loaded to 1625 fps. in 2013.

[45stomp]

+1, it would be a nice thread for the "Special Projects" section.

I'll see about that when I get back to it. Later in the spring maybe......too busy with other projects just now.
Cheers,
Darcy

[Ballard]

I have used this bullet on several Bison up to 1600lbs. The bullet is a killer. Period.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

SHARPSGUY MENTIONED, sorry, using 50/50 ww and pure lead. now for hunting purposes did you heat treat/ quench them, or let them cool slowly. I just mixed a big batch of 50/50 and slow cooling gave me a bullet that was very soft and turned into a quarter when it hit my target, a box filled with compact dirt( fairly soft) I have yet to try them quenched but I think it will be better then. also I agree that about 1400fps does penetrate best, wwith harder bullets I have dug them out of 6 feet of hard dirt behind the target

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Go back and look at post #34 and you can see the results of a water quenched 50/50 - Wheel Weights/lead alloy after some really hard going and even then loooooong penetration in a BIG cow elk.

Nothing short of awesome!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Ballard]

I will go on record saying that anyone who says that RCBS 405 bullet, cast right, is not a Buffalo killer, is either a poor shot, or seen very few Bison die.

[TXGunNut]

Never killed a buffalo or even seen one die but I'm a big fan of a HT 50/50 WFN boolit for TX critters. In some bores at a velocity the rifle & cartridge like this alloy seems to engage the rifling better. I also think it's tougher inside the critter and less likely to shatter. I've always felt that the best way to make a big hole all the way thru a critter is to start with a large boolit. Being tough and a little on the heavy side doesn't hurt, lol.
Still testing these theories but my freezer will only hold so much meat and I have to eat or give away my "test medium" before I get to do any more testing, lol.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Sure don't think that the RCBS RNFP 405gr is a bad choice, just think that the increased size of the meplat on a Wide Flat Nose cast bullet makes it still better.

My results on deer and elk lead me in that direction.

My only buffalo "kill" with the WFN was a barn yard put down, so that doesn't count even though it was instantaneous.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[longshotz]

Firstly, thanks all for the replies.

Obviously it wasn't the intended plan; but what went wrong that it took 5 shots, well placed from all accounts, and a chase before the quarry finally "gave up the ghost?" I have yet to hear an explanation of what went wrong.

I'm sure the hunters involved would like to better their game, as we all would, so as to avoid a repeat of that debacle.

[Lonegun1894]

I wasn't there but have a theory. The first shot, for whatever reason, didn't do the job instantaneously like the hunters intended (as is common with any shot that doesn't take out the brain or spine, regardless of what the target animal is), but did give the game a shot of adrenaline. Each of the four follow up shots did too, as did the chase itself. This is one of those times like we all get told to put a bullet in the right place on a deer, and then give it time to lay down instead of chasing it to the next county because it is going on nothing but adrenaline. Same thing applies to animals other than deer.

[45stomp]

From the description of the locations of the recovered boolits, I would speculate that they were not perfectly placed. You don't shoot animals that large around the fringes of the kill zone and put them down fast.
Bison vitals are not where most deer hunters expect them to be. Much lower and further forward. That makes the instinctive shot placement for most deer hunters(what you would probably resort too under pressure) not ideal. Place the projectile thru the arteries at the top of the heart and travel distance will drop a bunch.
Keep in mind that if you use a 200 grain boolit on a 200 pound deer and it kills fast, that you need to hit a 2000 pound buff with a 2000 grain boolit to make the comparison equal. Most of us have shoulders less than adequately proportioned to absorb the recoil produced by such a firearm.:holysheep

A friend of mine has guided to many bison in the Yukon. Long blood trails and multiple shots are not uncommon according to him. Shot placement is almost everything.

I have guided to many moose, and killed several myself.......they die easily when the bullet is placed where it should be, but seldom fall at the shot.......they usually wobble a few yards and then either lay down, or tip over. Hit poorly and pushed, you can have a long sparse blood trail to follow. Again, shot placement is almost everything.

I highly doubt a WFN would have changed anything in the buff story referenced above.

Darcy

[Ballard]

Well said, Darcy.