5.7x28 HEAVY Cast Boolits for Subsonic

[bpatterson84]

Good evening Gentlemen!

Lurker for about a year, I have loved this forum. Your advise has guided me into successfully casting for my wheelgun loads and in turn dramatically increased the amount I have been able to shoot, flying through the 1000pc packs of primers has felt good, and my shooting skill has reflected this. Now, I turn my eyes to something more ambitious.....wildcat rifle experimentation.

Why 5.7x28? Why not! as opposed to .44mag, folks leave the brass all over the range, free for my taking. I have done my research. I am aware of the lacquer coating, but cleaning this off is of no concern as I have little to no interest in the FN produced rifle and pistol, ditto with the AR-15 conversions. This project will be built around a single shot or bolt action rifle. I enjoy shooting .22lr subsonic suppressed perhaps more than any other rifle. I love squirrel, coon and 'yote hunting with said rifles. I see the potential here to double the energies capable in a subsonic 22lr at a competitive price(not counting time.....do yall count your time??? Hahaha).

Unfortunately, the limitations here are twofold. Lets get the obvious out of the way, lack of available firearms. My research here has uncovered the Savage Model 25 varmiter, which was chambered in 5.7x28 in I believe 2011, but no longer, although I have heard rumblings that it can be special ordered still. They are not available on the used market due to lack of production numbers, hens teeth if you will. The other option would be a Thompson singleshot, either rifle or pistol, I dont care, probably a custom barrel. In fact, either would have to be an unusual barrel as I would like heavy-for-caliber boolit. Fortunately 1/7 rate .22cal barrel blanks are quite available, a blank, reamer gauges and currency headed to a gunsmith and would probably be the best option here. Wanna get weird? Perhaps a magnum caliber rimfire receiver with a custom bolt(centerfire modification) and barrel would be an interesting option. Caliber dimensions are quite small, there would be length issues, but I've seen mags cut, extended and re-soldered before, and were functional in their given projects. There is usually some staggering of the cartridges in magazines, especially in the marlin 22mags if I remember correctly, so the cartridge diameter may work out, I will need to take a fired case to the gun store in the near future and test to see. Ruger m77 would possibly be a good starting point. How cool would a CZ452 heavily worked over be in 5.7x28? Enough dreamin.....


Second big problem is the actual boolit. I've seen rumblings about group buys, past group buys etc, but the only molds I'm seeing are 55ish grains. I want 70-80gr weight. Limiting speed means increasing weight for good energy, and I intend to keep it around 1000fps. Lots of 22hornet folks run subsonic, but I'd like to avoid that chambering however, 5.7 seems more offensive to ones sensibilities. Anyone have ideas on a heavy boolit? And recall that I'm not interested in the finicky FN products, so OAL issues and chambering fat ogives have less concern here.

So a singleshot will probably be the initial testbed due to fewer external factors on load development, looks like tiny charges of bullseye, red dot or other pistol powders will be played with, havent checked case capacity or run the pressures in a calculator yet, but will do. After confirmation of being stabilized a .22 rimfire suppressor will be used as most are rated for this particular cartridge(especially subsonic) and are able to be user serviceable.

So what do yall think, got any heavy boolit ideas or an I stuck getting a 55gr mold right now and doing a custom order? Am I crazy for this idea? I think it will be interesting. Very interested in the collective opinion and individual experiences with similar projects....

[runfiverun]

70-80gr molds are quite prevalent.
mihec and NOE both make them.

i'd look at Bulberry as a custom Barrel maker for theT/C frame.

your gonna have to do some serious thinking on the load part but with a bolt gun or single shot 1-2grs of pistol powder would be in the ball park.

[MarkP]

I remember seeing Rem 700 bolts for 5.7 x 28 at Pacific Tool & gauge. That may be a more cost effective route as there would not be too many required alterations. My M 70 in 22 Hornet has a small block near the rear in the magazine to take up space, similar to my 700's in 221 Fireball.

[bpatterson84]

Perfect. Will check with them. And thank you for the advice on a T/C barrel.

[bpatterson84]

I remember seeing Rem 700 bolts for 5.7 x 28 at Pacific Tool & gauge. That may be a more cost effective route as there would not be too many required alterations. My M 70 in 22 Hornet has a small block near the rear in the magazine to take up space, similar to my 700's in 221 Fireball.

I knew I could go with a full sized rifle, but want to keep dimensions small, in proportion with the little cartridge. That said, your suggestion would probably have the least hassle and most accuracy potential. If I see a cheap doner rifle, I may go this route. Thank you sir!

[bpatterson84]

This seems reasonable. At subsonic velocities, I see no use for a GC, am I wrong? Pressures shouldnt be out of hand, but we will see.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=1479&osCsid=f3nmtkm6om5ekkb36b2iqb09a6

[MarkP]

I knew I could go with a full sized rifle, but want to keep dimensions small, in proportion with the little cartridge. That said, your suggestion would probably have the least hassle and most accuracy potential. If I see a cheap doner rifle, I may go this route. Thank you sir!

Check out gunbroker auction # 543043057 M Seven actions left over 300 AAC only $239. You got my wheels turning now, I have always thought a 5.7 x 28 would be a neat rifle round.

I have a few 4.6 x 30 Barrier cartridges and I thought they would make a great 17 cal cartridge. For small actions; my mini mausers are smaller than my Ruger 77/22 Hornets.

You should be able to find this pretty easily and get some more ideas; there is a guy that converts Rem 591's & 592's into a center fire to create a re-loadable 5mm Rem Mag, another neat cartridge (IMO)

[richhodg66]

A rifle chambered in that like a CZ or a Zastava mini Mauser would be nice. Kind of a rimless .22 Hornet.

I love the Hornet and those light loads are deadly as all get out on small game. I don't use a supressor and likely never will, but a very easy on the ears crack is all you get.

[Quiettime]

At subsonic velocities, I see no use for a GC, am I wrong? Pressures shouldnt be out of hand, but we will see.


Definitely not. I've shot many .30 cast boolits plain base, and actually shot a few GC designs without the gas checks using JPW or 45/45/10 lube. Some people even shoot cast at low velocity with NO lube and no leading. Obviously correct powder and proper fit are key.

I'm actually toying with the idea of the 5.7 for the same use as you and there are more than a few crazies out there talking about it on the net. For simplicity's sake I may go with a .223 bolt gun but I like the idea of a small rifle like you're talking about.

Another option is the .22 TCM which Armscor has come out with a bolt gun (dandy design that takes the same mags as the pistol) but what sucks is the 1:16 twist, so you'd still be looking at a custom barrel for anything over 40-45 grains...meh!

[bpatterson84]

The Armscor is very interesting, and I sure like the price! I think I'd have the same OAL issues I'd have with many other platforms however, and as cool as the 22TCM is, 5.7x28 brass is everywhere at the range! I'm going to have to start with the T/C and when I have a load that is gonna work, I wanna start playing with micro actions. And like you said, I'd have to switch barrels anyway, and the mags wouldnt work. I really think there's going to be potential in mags for the 22mag, with modifications of coarse. With regards to items currently on the market, any of you guys have a 22 hornet bolt you could test fit a 5.7 case in? I know the diameter is smaller, but wonder if that would work at all.....maybe taking the .22mag and milling out the bolt head is probably going to be the way to go if dimensions work out. The guy at the well stocked gunshop in Houston is going to be looking at me funny when I bust out my caliper on their 22mag selections!!!! Yall know of any other similar projects I can research on this? Particularly rimfire to centerfire conversions? That would be a huge help in knowledge gathering.

[bpatterson84]

Check out gunbroker auction # 543043057 M Seven actions left over 300 AAC only $239. You got my wheels turning now, I have always thought a 5.7 x 28 would be a neat rifle round.

I have a few 4.6 x 30 Barrier cartridges and I thought they would make a great 17 cal cartridge. For small actions; my mini mausers are smaller than my Ruger 77/22 Hornets.

You should be able to find this pretty easily and get some more ideas; there is a guy that converts Rem 591's & 592's into a center fire to create a re-loadable 5mm Rem Mag, another neat cartridge (IMO)

That remington Mo. 7 action is cool, and I love those rifles! However, I want to avoid full sized centerfire actions at all cost, we wanna stay light with appropriately short bolt throw and cycling length ;-)

Is this the project you're talking about? http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/remington-5mm-magnum-5mm-craig.html

[MarkP]

That remington Mo. 7 action is cool, and I love those rifles! However, I want to avoid full sized centerfire actions at all cost, we wanna stay light with appropriately short bolt throw and cycling length ;-)

Is this the project you're talking about? http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/remington-5mm-magnum-5mm-craig.html

Yes it is the 5mm article I was thinking of.

I think I have some 5.7 x 28 cartridges I picked up and will try in my hornet (Ruger) magazine and post some pictures. If not I have 4.6 x 30 mm Barrier very similar to the 5.7 x 28.


162640
5.7 x28, 4.6 x 30, 17 x 30, 22 K-Hornet, my 17 Hornet, 22 Hornet, 221 Fireball, 17-222

162641
Would need to remove some mat'l on the Ruger mag to fit (second picture5.7 x 28 in Ruger mag). not certain about internal clearance issues.
162642
3rd pict my 17 based on a Hornet in mag
162643
4th pict 22 K-Hornet in mag.

IIRC think my 17 Hornet is 0.289 at the shoulder it just fits into the (4) Ruger mags that I have with no mods required. (circa 1994 magazine and rifles SN 2,000's)