How do you do it?!

[Radarsonwheels]

I just got a Pedersoli 1874 sharps. I am experimenting with paper patching to bore for smokeless which is going well for just starting out with PP, and I already load 45-70 with black powder for my marlin 1985. I want to combine the two and do some black powder patching. I have some experiments brewing for groove diameter packages but with a heavy bullet and a short chamber the cartridge really lends itself more to smokeless due to case capacity. I currently only have lee 405 and 500 grease molds and 452 and 458 lube size dies to size down and finish my wrapped bullets.

I feel like I'm going to have to invest in more equipment to do this right. I'm very interested in patching to bore size and shallow seating my bullets to get a stout charge under them and good bore alignment. I have some (dumb?) questions due to my inexperience so I'll ask them in list form for clarity. The answers will hopefully help me select a good PP mold which seems like a pricey proposition, so I only want to do it once (for starters).

-I hear/read talk about very shallow seated bullets. How does this work in practice? My 45-70 cases require such a modest flare to accept .458" bullets, how would they hold a .449 or .450 wrapped bullet? Or if the technique is to thumb seat them in a fire formed case does that happen at the range while measuring powder like in a muzzle loader? Then aim the rifle up and try to keep the bullet and case lined up while you chamber it? Is there any concern about getting enough compression for good burn? Any chance of air space if the rifle is tipped down? Can cartridges be loaded at home and survive handling and travel? I don't need to street fight wearing my ammo like Quigley but at the range I want to shoot faster than I can with my flintlocks.

I would like to get a mold that doesn't require sizing- just wrap and load maybe with different papers for clean bore/ wiping, and thinner paper for a fouled bore. If I'm not sizing or seating the bullets with a press then do I still need some tin like 1:20? Or would that just be for alloy toughness if I go hunting big critters and try to break shoulders? And if I shoot 1:20 does that alloy still obturate when wrapped to bore size or slightly under?

Thanks!
radar

[MIEagle]

Glad to hear you're paper patching. I'm just starting out also. I think most of the answers to your questions have been asked and answered, you just need to go through this "virtual library" to find the answers. Then, when you may have a specific question about a problem, post it. Also go to the shilorifles forum and the assra forum. I do most every day. No sense re-inventing the wheel. Good Luck!

[country gent]

The answer to your queston is you size smaller for the smaller bullet. Some dies actually get pretty close to what you may need if you dont expand the cases after. Or you can buy a mecham bushing sizing die and the bushing that you need to size to what you need. I prime cahrge case seat first wad and compress to depth needed for grease cookie, and finalwad and bullet seating depth, hand seat the bullet and size it around the bullet in my mecham die with the appropriate bushing.... Some think the short throats reduce capacity to much but millions of buffalo cant be wrong. This style chamber reduced the herd to almost extiction. Load for around 1200fps -1300 ( a little on the high side) and the rifle will do all you want it to.

[country gent]

Also Randolph S Wrights book, Loading and shooting the Paper patched bullet a begginners guide is very good with alot of information and data in it.

[Don McDowell]

country gent pretty well explained it.

[Gunlaker]

That book is quite good for getting started.

A 20:1 bore diameter bullet will definitely bump up to fill the grooves. So will 16:1.

I use two types of paper. One at 0.0016" and the other 0.002". Best to get the paper first and figure out bullet diameter from there.

I do not shoot in a fouled bore, but if I were to try it, I would reduce the bullet diameter a bit and stay with the same paper thickness, rather than going with thinner paper. Or maybe I'd size the bullet down 0.001"-0.002". I shoot in a clean bore, but on occasion I've accidentally forgotten to wipe the bore and chambered rounds in a fouled bore. My 0.0016" Seth Cole paper gets damaged when I do that.

By full length sizing your cases and not using an expander die, your case mouths will not be too far off. You can also use a Lyman taper crimp die to reduce your case mouths to exactly where you need them to be. This is how I prep brass for initial firing in my .45-90.

Chris.

[John Boy]

For starters, several reads in BP Patching archive ...
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?38-Black-Powder-Paper-Patching

[69daytona]

I bought my rifle from a member here, he sent me his loading info along with 60 pieces of fired brass, he said in the instructions to not full length resize for paper patch just use the size die to squeeze the neck down enough that the paper patched bullet will have a snug fit in the case.
Im still waiting for rcbs to get off their butt and fix my new powder measure to try these.
but if done right the PP bullet fits snug and won't come out without a little effort.
with a wad stack on top of powder should have now problem if knocked over with it coming apart and spilling any powder.
also don't use seating die on bullet to compress powder, the softer lead can deform.
just some things I have read here and every black powder, Shiloh site I could find.
Kenny Wasserburger, think that's his name on Shiloh forum is a wealth of info for PP, just don't expect him to reply with anything more than read through his old posts.