Mix And Match Dies For 9mm?

[ArrowJ]

I am getting ready to load 9mm cast boolits. If I told you my die buying story you would probably think I am too dumb to be reloading! Suffice it to say I have a set of roll crimp Hornady Custom Grade dies that is going back to the store, and a set of Redding steel dies with a janky seater die that I traded for and needs to be sent back to Redding. My plan is to order Hornady dies with a taper crimp as I cannot find them locally.

Anyway, I thought before I bought them I would ask if any of you use a mix and match set for 9mm, what they are, and why you chose them.

Incidentally, I have read about the Redding seater die leaving marks on the bullets. I was surprised to see a hollow stem when I took it apart. I was expecting more from Redding.

[C. Latch]

Roll crimp 9mm dies? I didn't know there was such a thing.

[rockshooter]

Yup, mixing dies is fine. One of my 9mm sets has an RCBS carbide sizer, Lyman "m" die for belling for cast bullets, RCBS seater, Lee factory crimp die. I wouldn't fret about the Redding seater stem- it will work fine for truncated cone bullets and a little ring on a round nose one never hurt anything.
Loren

[tazman]

I mix and match dies whenever I need a technique the current die set doesn't provide. Particularly with my 38 specials. I have different seating dies depending on the boolit nose and different dies depending on the crimp.
It works for me.

[frkelly74]

I use a Hornady sizer and Herters expander and seater dies. Seems to work.

[ArrowJ]

Roll crimp 9mm dies? I didn't know there was such a thing.

I assume that is what it is. The taper crimp die set says taper across the top of the label and has a different product number. I guess I could be missing something...which is not unheard of. Both boxes say 9mm Luger/9x21, but only the 546516 says taper whereas the 546515 does not.

[ArrowJ]

...I wouldn't fret about the Redding seater stem...a little ring on a round nose one never hurt anything.
Loren

I do not think I could sleep at night :)

[ArrowJ]

Lyman "m" die for belling for cast bullets...
Loren

That is the second time I have heard that. Is there a disadvantage to using the Hornady die for belling? I will be using cast bullets.

[jmort]

I use Lee Precison sizing and seating dies and use a Lyman M Die or NOE expander in a Lee expanding die body and a Redding taper crimp die.

[C. Latch]

I assume that is what it is. The taper crimp die set says taper across the top of the label and has a different product number. I guess I could be missing something...which is not unheard of. Both boxes say 9mm Luger/9x21, but only the 546516 says taper whereas the 546515 does not.

I just looked at the Hornady website and can't tell you what the difference is between the two.

I'm guessing the set you have does NOT roll crimp, as it would be impossible to headspace a roll-crimped 9mm cartridge. If you still have them....I'd break them out and use them.

[ArrowJ]

I just looked at the Hornady website and can't tell you what the difference is between the two.

I'm guessing the set you have does NOT roll crimp, as it would be impossible to headspace a roll-crimped 9mm cartridge. If you still have them....I'd break them out and use them.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/archive/index.php/t-20201.html

This thread seems to indicate the ones marked "taper" are a newer version, but it is not at all clear. I guess I could call Hornady, or use the Redding seater die to crimp with the plug backed out if for some reason the Hornady does do a roll...which as you say makes no sense.

[ArrowJ]

Doing some reading on the M die. I am leaning toward keeping the Hornady dies and buying that for expanding. Surely I can get decent 9mm rounds using seven dies :)

[Outer Rondacker]

Yup, mixing dies is fine. One of my 9mm sets has an RCBS carbide sizer, Lyman "m" die for belling for cast bullets, RCBS seater, Lee factory crimp die. I wouldn't fret about the Redding seater stem- it will work fine for truncated cone bullets and a little ring on a round nose one never hurt anything.
LorenI have the same set. We must shop at the same store. Really I do.

[ReloaderFred]

You're way overthinking this. I have a lot of die sets that are "mix and match", as some dies do things better than other brands, and vice versa. I've never heard of a roll crimp 9x19 die, since the case headspaces on the case mouth. Just because it doesn't say taper crimp, doesn't mean it isn't. Some just assume the buyer knows what the caliber requires in the way of a crimping die.

If you do buy another die, the Lyman M Die is a good one to have, especially for cast bullets.

Use what you have and you'll be fine.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[ArrowJ]

You're way overthinking this.

Fred

I would say that sums it up pretty well :)

[Blammer]

I guess I'm one of the few who use one set of dies to reload my 9mm. I have an RCBS 3 die set, works perfectly for me.

[Lefty Red]

I mix and match my revolver dies, it my bottom feeder calibers just use a Lee 4 die sets.

Jerry

[Ole Joe Clarke]

It's ok to mix and match, or not. Whatever works and gives you the end results that you are looking for. Just be SAFE in the process.

[mdi]

Put an empty case in yer press and run the crimp die down on it. You'll feel resistance and use enough pressure to reshape the case mouth. Take he case out and look at it. A roll crimp will have the mouth rounded or "rolled" inward. A taper crimp will just show a tapering, but straight swaging of the mouth...

[AbitNutz]

There are some dies I like better than others. For non-critical seating situations...like 9mm. I really like Hornady's seating die. It has a sleeve that makes it much easier to seat the bullet. For sizing, Reading is almost impossible to beat....unless you're using a progressive press, then Dillon's may be a better choice.

For precision rifle loads, I use RCBS Gold Medal seating dies with a micrometer and window. For sizing, both neck and full length, I use competition Redding micrometer busing dies. However, unless you are neck turning your brass, there's no reason to do bushing dies.

Sometimes I use collet dies dies from Lee for crimping (Lee factory crimp). Or RCBS X-dies, or Small Base dies...er, ah? Oh, God! I'm a reloading junky!!! God help me!

[W.R.Buchanan]

I mix and match all kinds of die sets. Sometimes it's the only way to get what you want . The set up on my 550B right now for .223 has a RCBS Sizer, Dillon Charging Die with Powder Measure , RCBS Seater and a Lee Collet Crimper.

For pistol rounds you definitely need a Carbide Sizer with a Deprimer in it. Whatever you decide on the Flaring/ Powder drop but either Dillon with a Dillon Measure, or a C&H die with interchangeable flaring probes, and then use either a funnel on top or the C&H Powder Measure.

Then a Lee FCD to taper crimp.

Another way to go is just buy Lee Deluxe 4 Die set for $36 and be done with it.

Or you could just buy a Square Deal set up for 9MM and be done with it and load faster.

I am not a fan of Redding Dies or Equipment. They are over priced in my Highly Skilled Machinist/Toolmaker opinion. I know exactly what it takes to make this stuff, and I assure you that there is not one iota of significant difference in the performance between the Most Expensive and Least Expensive Dies on the market.

I have sent back several Redding Dies that were not made right, but I have never sent back any Lee Die. I have lots of RCBS dies and all of them work right. I also have C&H dies and Pacific dies all of which have always worked right. In fact the only dies I have sent back are Redding Dies, and not just once.

Now I ask,,,,, Why are they the most expensive out there?

I have several sets of Redding dies that I bought used. I would never even consider buying new ones.

In fact the only dies I buy new are Lee dies and that's simply because I can get everything I need for any new caliber for <$40 and $40 won't even buy one Redding die of any type! For new calibers I usually go on Ebay and find used die sets. Most are hardly used at all because the vast majority of people who do reload, don't really do it that much. The other point here is that I doubt anyone on this planet has ever worn out a set of .358 Winchester dies. They are usually pretty much new when I get them, and you can pretty much bet that any other "less than Military Caliber" will be hardly used as well. Dies are made to load literally hundreds of thousands of cartridges. The only die that would ever see any wear at all is the sizer so all the rest are never going to get used up. If the box looks new, the dies probably are too..

There comes a time when people need to understand that even though a product is the most expensive, it doesn't necessarily mean it is the best quality or the best value. And this becomes more true every day as the Chinese are making tools that are becoming as good as the ones we made here for the last 100 years, and what really pukes me is the fact we are not only showing them how to do it, but giving them the means to do it as well !!!.

That said,,, I buy from Harbor Freight all the time simply because I could never get my money out of a more expensive tool, for the few times I will use it.

Others might be well advised to use the last paragraph as justification for purchasing tools of any kind in the future. You have to be able to use the tool enough to have paid for it, in order to justify buying it in the first place. It is hard to justify paying top dollar for a tool that you aren't going to use enough to extract your moneys worth out of. Just buying it because it is supposedly the best, or cuz you like nice things, is not that good a reason to waste your money.

Hell,,, you could just send it to me and I would actually appreciate the gesture and talk highly of you in return!

Randy

[ArrowJ]

Randy,

I agree with almost everything you have said. Good stuff. It turns out the dies I have been least impressed with in my minimal experience are from Redding. It is purely anecdotal, but frustrating none the less.

I have a Redding Big Boss II in the box that will be my press when I get my bench. I used a Lee Classic Cast years ago, and let us face it, it was built like a tank. I sure hope the BBII is better than the dies. I am sure they make some great stuff, but it is expensive. I bought the press because it is American made and because I wanted a nice thing :) I do not do that very often at all, and I think it is a good enough reason on the rare occasion. For the rest of the time there is Harbor Freight.

[ArrowJ]

I was about to order the Lyman M die when I accidentally ran across a post on another forum that said the Redding pistol dies use the same type of plug. I pulled it, and sure enough it looks the same. I will try that first and if it works I saved $25.

[JeffG]

I mix and match on 9mm. Started with a Lee Carbide 4 die set. What I presently have installed on a Loadmaster for 9mm is the Lee FL sizing die, Lyman M die for expansion on lead bullets, Hornady case activated powder measure, and Hornady custom taper crimp seating die with flat plug for seating 356-120-TC. Prior to the Hornady taper crimp seating die I was using the Lee seating die and a Lee taper crimp die. I prefer the Hornady Taper Crimp seating die with flat seating plug because it get more consistent COAL on lead bullets than with the standard Lee seating die.

[W.R.Buchanan]

ArrowJ: don't get me wrong, I'm not above buying nice things for myself. I have lots of nice presses and tools, and I really like Dillon Equipment which is hardly bargain basement. I am heavily into "Tactical Gratification!" (Enjoying the "Feel" of something while using it.)

I also like and have Hardinge Lathes and Bridgeport Mills, and have several of each. However all of these machines have paid for themselves many times over, so the initial cost is easily justified.. There is also resale value to consider.

And in that case you buy the best and only cry once.

That said: I bought a Harbor Freight 1/2" drive ratchet with an extendable handle the other day as I had to run a Greenlee Punch thru 50 holes. I needed more leverage than I could get out of my Craftsman Ratchet I've had for 40 years. It cost $22.00, and I had to take it apart to grease it, but it worked well enough to complete the job. It is now in the bottom of my big tool box where it will likely live out the rest of my life only to be used occasionally. But for what I needed to do it was worth buying. The same tool from Sears would have been $50-60 and from Snap On $150! Obviously they would have not earned their keep.

Randy

[ArrowJ]

It cost $22.00, and I had to take it apart to grease it, but it worked well enough to complete the job.
Randy

LOL Perfect example! I bought a $15 circular saw years ago to rip some stuff as I cannot cut a straight line to save my life anyway. It has been used four times maybe in 15 years.

[GONRA]

GONRA's "socket set rules":
Always get known hi quality SOCKETS.
Craftsman (IS THIS STILL TRUE with all SearHolding financial problems?) SnapOn, maybe some others?

Thin wall, deeeps really have to be Hi Quality 6 points or yer wasting yer $$$.
Forged, hardened/tempered, NOT auto screw machined/12 point roto broached
then Cr plated to cover all the soft steel/crappy machining.

But one can cheepout on the WRENCHES.
Harbor Freight all the way.....

[AbitNutz]

Interesting view about Redding. I just saw a video about comparing Redding and Lyman expander dies. The Redding had such notable machine marks that it left brass shavings on the Dillon plate....The Lyman didn't. The Lyman M-die was much better polished than the Redding.

In reality, the best, if somewhat expensive solution is the Mr. Bullet Feeder's powder through expander die. It performs the function of a Lyman M-die but drops powder as well.

[ArrowJ]

I have never used either, I did read they were similar and can see that they look similar, but given the less than silky smooth threads on the die it would not surprise me if the Redding were not as well finished. Maybe I could polish it myself?

[AbitNutz]

Yep, you can. Best way is to take it apart and out the expander section in a drill or drill press. Turn it on a manageable speed and run some 600 of aluminum oxide sandpiper against it. Takes all the work out of it, is fast and you don't have to worry about flat spotting it.