Good news...bad news

[Goose18557]

Been lurking for a little while and just got into casting. I could use an assist.

Bad news- I bought 350lbs of lead off craigslist for $250 and it turns out its not lead.

Good news-based on the melting point/appearance im pretty sure its pure tin. Obviously well worth what i paid for it.

What the heck am i supposed to do with that much tin. The only thing i can think of is buck shot for plinking with the 12ga.

[dudel]

1) sell some, buy lead
2) trade some for lead

[sigep1764]

hell no!!! if youre near st louis, ill take a chunk off ya !!!

[shoot-n-lead]

Thought you were gonna say it was GOLD...

[Big Boomer]

Terrible waste of valuable, expensive resources when something else would do as well or better ... tin is not as efficient as lead/tin/antimony mix for shot. Any of us casters would be helped with the tin and you would be helped with something more suited to your needs. Big Boomer

[upnorthwis]

If it's tin, you've hit the Gold Mine.

[mgread]

I'll trade you 25lbs COWW for 25lbs if it 100%tin

[Goose18557]

Other than re-listing on ebay/craigslist whats the best way to sell...i poured some of it into mini muffin ingots and the rest is still in 60-80lb chunks.

[Echd]

You should have it assayed or checked with an XRF gun before declaring it to be pure tin. It is not impossible but very unlikely that you got 350 lbs of tin... unless it was a case of the widow cleaning out the garage, it's not likely someone would have that much tin and think it was lead.

[Outer Rondacker]

Start by filling out your profile. Then start reading posts and contributing to them. While you learn time will pass and next thing you know 30 days have gone by. Start listing it up here in the swap and sell section. You will make friends fast and help others out here Along with making some money to buy more lead. Dont sell it all keep some. Hope this helps you out. Welcome out of the shadows and into the light of the forum.

[country gent]

You have enough tin there to make 7000 lbs of 20-1 alloy. Tin as scrap or cheap can be hard to find. Make a rough estimite of what you need for life with your alloy double it and sell or trade the rest for lead. Wheel wieghts lino type pure could all be used with this to create just the alloy you want.

[Goose18557]

Dumb question...lets assume i'm wrong about the tin...considsering what i paid for it is there a chance i overpaid and if so what type of metal would it be?

[TXGunNut]

It all depends on what you actually have.

[cainttype]

PM typz2slo.
He's a very good guy that could be a very big help with your situation. I'm sure he can give you invaluable info in very short order.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

has anyone considered someone might have unloaded a bunch of zinc on him, people can be real jerks and have no moral capacity, I agree that you should call some salvages and find one that will use there spectrophy????? gun on it to find out for real exactly what it is. but I hope you just got a great deal on tin. I sure could use some. none to be had round here and not the time for me to be able to buy it anyway. good luck!
Travis

[Goose18557]

Definitly not zinc unless im missing something...measured temp as soon as some melted...460 degrees

[CHeatermk3]

Firstly, welcome to the forum!

Pure tin from rotometals sells for $20 per pound last time I looked. You paid $.71 per pound for the metal you bought.
You could cast it into muffins or whatever and get at least, as a wild guess, $5/pound.

IF it is close to pure Tin.

You need to find out what it is. There's a guy here that has offered to alalyze a sample for a 1-pound ingot of lead, he has access to the analyzer where he works.

[bruce381]

contact a member here BNE for sending him a 1 or 2 LB ingot.
He will run x ray on the lead and let you know the mix, he keeps the lead as a fee.
fast and cheap to get done PM him.

[leftiye]

Probly solder. (If it ain't zinc)

[jonp]

Dumb question...lets assume i'm wrong about the tin...considsering what i paid for it is there a chance i overpaid and if so what type of metal would it be?

Zinc would be the most likely thing id guess but you never know

[Shiloh]

See post #6. Post if you find out what it is for sure.

Shiloh

[cainttype]

typz2slo, a member here, will be able to analyze a sample for nearly nothing. Not only are his tests very accurate, he's a heck of a good guy.
Do yourself a favor, PM him and get your metal analyzed. You'll be much better able to decide what to do next.

I'm curious if the material you have is in factory-type ingots, like babbitt bars, or blocks that were poured by a hobbiest.
If the blocks look like the latter, I'd suspect babbitt or solder. If that's the case the differing blocks may have entirely different compositions. Testing samples from each block may be necessary, unless you combine them into a single, large batch to use later.

You could do a Specific Gravity test yourself, but that isn't going tell you exactly what you have... typz2slo WILL.

Good luck.
It's too easy to get it right nowadays.

[wadcutter]

You really can't determine the alloy by the melting point alone. Tin melts at 450, but there could be an infinite number of alloys containing lead, tin, silvers, copper etc etc that melt at about same temp. What's the density?

[lightman]

Welcome Aboard! You could have any number of things including tin, solder, babbit, or hopefully not zinc. Zinc melts at a considerly higher temp than what you posted, so thats a good thing. If your alloy is really high in tin its too valuable to make shot or bullets without alloying it with lead, so please don't do that! There are a couple of members here that have access to the equipment to analyze your stuff if you can't get it done locally.

[45-70 Chevroner]

If you find that it is tin, check Roto metels for price, this weeks sale price is $10.99 a pound.

[Tom Myers]

Definitly not zinc unless im missing something...measured temp as soon as some melted...460 degrees

Goose,

The melting point of pure tin is 449.47°F.

The completely liquid state of 60% lead 40% solder is 464°F.

This is only and opinion but, most probably, your stash is reclaimed solder that has been cleaned up and melted into ingots.

Still a real good deal.

Here are some images from the Precision Cast Bullet Alloy calculator (http://tmtpages.com/Alloy/alloycalc.htm) that are pertinent to melting points and how to determine the specific gravity of a 40:60 Tin:Lead alloy.

Hope this helps.


click on image to view larger.

162022 162023 162024

[mto7464]

Could be linotytpe as well. Got a pic of the stuff? Either way you did alright. Check the hardness with some artists pencils. Try casting with it. It is pure tin you will probably get a lot of fins on your boolits.

[OS OK]

I've got 8 BHN lead through 11.4 BHN wheel weights in 2.2 pound cupcake ingots. Got 5 pound bars of Linotype and Lyman #2. How much you want to trade Goose?

Could be we are local to each other in Cali.?

First things first though…spend the time to get it analyzed…WELCOME to the Forum…You're making a big splash around here today!

OS OK

[fredj338]

As noted, not zinc if it melts under 700deg. If it is tin & you can verify that, I am sure folks here would be happy to trade you for pure or castable alloy. Let us know, I am in for 25# if it is indeed tin or solder heavy with tin.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The melting point, if the OP is right about that, would rule out zinc, and most alloys that don't contain a lot of tin. Solder is much more likely to be on the market than pure tin, but can still be used to make up a useful bullet alloy.

Most scrap yards now have an electronic testing gun, and would be glad to use it if you are considering selling tin. You could make a hefty profit on selling 300lb. or more out of 350, and still have enough tin or tin mixture to cast bullets for a long, long time.

[dondiego]

What was that bad news again?

[mto7464]

The alloy will give a flat cooling curve line. Very slight variations w/ some thermometers may appear to give a flat. Turn off heat, make same measurements as for lead. Eutectic Linotype melting point is about 465F.

[truckerdave397]

If you strike out with the others I can get it tested for you. PM me if interested.

[Half Dog]

Ok...I'm wondering what you got too. You must let us know.

[Goose18557]

Gents,

Thanks to all for the great info. To answer some of the questions from later posts to this thread. They definitely aren't anything from a factory, The ingots (70lbs) came in 1 gallon plastic buckets. This seemed odd to me when I picked them up but it didn't click that one would probably have a heck of a time pouring molten lead into a bucket without melting/deforming said bucket. When I got home I dumped the ingot out of the bucket and noticed the bucket had been lined with some heavy duty plastic. Seems to be similar to a 5 or 7mm drop cloth. All that aside I sent samples from one bucket to BNE and samples from a different bucket to typz2slo. I will post result once I hear back. Special thanks to BNE, Typz2slo and the rest of the forum for the hospitality and welcoming a new guy into the fold.

[woodbutcher]

:-o Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.This will get real interesting.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Goose18557]

OS OK - City:California State:Maryland. Far from local but I'm a fan of flat rate boxes. Hit me up once I receive/post test result if you are interested.

MTO7464 - Will upload pics tonight. Being that I'm noew I don't understand the "fins" reference. Please explain. Additionally, I'll try to explain my observation regarding the cooling of this metal without sounding like a complete fool.

I have melted the 70lb ingots in a large cast iron dutch oven on a propane burner. Once melt is complete I skim all the crud (droos is the term I think I should be using) off the top of liquid metal. I still haven't fully wrapped my head around fluxing yet so I forewent the process(probably to the chagrin of many reading this) and am saving the crud until I figure out whether its worth keeping. I confiscated the wife's kitchen ladle and bent it too look dipper like. Dip metal out of dutch oven and poured into mini muffin ingots. It seems that no matter how long I took to pour out of ladle, none of the metal ever solidified in the ladle(when pouring lead usually 50% of it hardens during pour and has to be re-melted). Metal remains liquid for 2-3 minutes while OAT is approx. 50deg F. After about 5 min I can only describe the top on the ingots as "crunchy" (not-solid but also not liquid) when I slightly press on them with my mini-trowel. Within the next few minutes they harden up. They are not shiny out of the cast like lead but have more of a "glittery" or "frosty" appearance. Like I said pics later tonight.

I feel like we should turn this into a game of "name that metal/alloy" with me shipping the winner an mini-muffin ingot of this stuff.

[Goose18557]

162497162498162499

[Goose18557]

162501162502

[Goose18557]

Post #38 from left to right: In bucket as picked up off craigslist / Out of bucket showing plastic / mini muffin ingots from 70lb bucket
Post #39 from left to right: Last few ingots poured from melt / Middle of the batch ingots

Can anybody explain why the ingots from the end of the batch would look different from the beginning/middle ingots.

[scottfire1957]

Hmmm. Would molten tin melt a HDPE bucket? What molten metal wouldn't?


Edit: Aside from mercury and other low temp melt metals.

[DerekP Houston]

Can anybody explain why the ingots from the end of the batch would look different from the beginning/middle ingots.

I had that issue when I smelted the larger amounts. It was due to the melt increasing in temp as the pot got lower and my mold getting hotter each time. First couple were shiny rest were similiar to your 2nd pic.

[Goose18557]

Hmmm. Would molten tin melt a HDPE bucket? What molten metal wouldn't?


Edit: Aside from mercury and other low temp melt metals.

Im not a plastics expert but it sure looks like this stuff was poured into the buckets

[Goose18557]

I know people do crazy things but I can't imagine someone would make amold of a one gallon bucket to pour into and then once cooled take ingot out of mold to store in a crappy bucket

[scottfire1957]

HDPE melts at 266f. Are not most 5 gallon buckets HDPE? High density polyethelene?

If your bucket is HDPE, the metal was poured at less than 300*F, it seems.

Hmmmmm.

[Goose18557]

What metal pours below 300?

[Goose18557]

Not to go all parsimonious but...

[scottfire1957]

Na, K, P, after a quick google. Maybe some alloys. Your analysis will tell for sure.

It is an interesting situation.

[scottfire1957]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusible_alloy

Edit IF the metal was poured molten, into a presumed HDPE bucket, Bi52 Sn48 seems a good candidat.

Edit, ooops, that should be Bi58 Sn42. Several other Bi/Sn and Bi/Pb alloys come close also.

[Goose18557]

I hope you right because if i have 350 lbs of Bi/Sn i have a small fortune on my hands

[Goose18557]

Also, i cant get on board with the Na, K, or P. Just doesn't make sense.

Just because you can google "low melting point metals" and then ingore the first 2/3rds of the thread doesn't make you right

[scottfire1957]

I'm just guessing, like everybody else, except I'm using the internet to help with my guesses. The XRF will tell the tale.

[birddog]

Goose,
Take a chunk to a local scrap yard and have them check it with an XRF gun, that analysis is worth more than ideas on the thread here
Charlie

[Goose18557]

See post #35

[dondiego]

I still have some metal 5 gallon buckets. They could have been poured into a metal bucket and then placed into plastic after cooling.

[Djones]

I still have some metal 5 gallon buckets. They could have been poured into a metal bucket and then placed into plastic after cooling.

Bingo. That is what I was thinking.

One thing is for sure, this thread has me checking craigslist for alloy

Looking forward to the results!

[birddog]

Goose,
Still no test results???
Charlie

[Goose18557]

Shipped some to forum members for scanning. Should arrive tomorrow so I'm hopin for results within the next week or 2

[Goose18557]

In the mean time i am acquiring lead to alloy with my mystery metal and have my first mold on the way

[Baryngyl]

Doesn't cerrosafe melt in boiling water, not sure without looking it up the exact temp or what it is made of but it was used to make chamber/barrel casts.



Michael Grace

PS, looked up Cerrosafe. Proably not what you have as it melts at 158 °F and you said yours melted much higher then that.

Wood's metal, also known as Lipowitz's alloy or by the commercial names Cerrobend, Bendalloy, Pewtalloy and MCP 158, is a eutectic, fusible alloy with a melting point of approximately 70 °C (158 °F). It is a eutectic alloy of 50% bismuth, 26.7% lead, 13.3% tin, and 10% cadmium by weight

[Plate plinker]

:coffeecom
Hoping you do not have something nasty and inhaled a bunch while smelting.

[Goose18557]

Did all my smelting outdoors and standing upwind

[Plate plinker]

smart move

[Goose18557]

I think Baryngyl might be a psychic. Got the result back today. Bi52 Pb30 Sn15 and Cd1 and a few other traces. Anybody interested.

Looks like it might be time for me to examine my temperature taking methods and invest in a new thermometer.

[cainttype]

It's a whole new world today with things like XRF analyzers, and contacts willing to help.
It seems like only yesterday that such analysis was well beyond the reach of the vast majority of casters.

[pete501]

Cerro bend indeed. It has some value but finding the right person who needs and needs that much of it may prove difficult. I have nearly 200 lbs myself. The cadmium is toxic so protect yourself. Ebay has some sales, my suggestion is sell it for less than anyone else has it listed for. Be sure to mention your XRF results in your add. This may become a full time job with $350 pounds.

[rwadley]

I think Baryngyl might be a psychic. Got the result back today from Typz2slo. Bi52 Pb30 Sn15 and Ca10 and a few other traces. Anybody interested.

Looks like it might be time for me to examine my temperature taking methods and invest in a new thermometer.

The abbreviation for calcium is Ca. The abbreviation for cadmium is Cd.

[scottfire1957]

I think Baryngyl might be a psychic. Got the result back today from Typz2slo. Bi52 Pb30 Sn15 and Ca10 and a few other traces. Anybody interested.

Looks like it might be time for me to examine my temperature taking methods and invest in a new thermometer.


My math may be off, or I misread something, but those add up to 107%. And yes, Ca is calcium.

[Goose18557]

Post 64 edited 1%Cd Vice 10%Ca