LBT fraud hardness tester

[brassrat]

So I just got one and my wadcutter .38 is reading 22. WHAT THE HECK did I mess up now?:-o

[John Boy]

http://www.lbtmoulds.com/support.shtml

[dkf]

Maybe your wadcutters really are 22BHN.

[brassrat]

Maybe your wadcutters really are 22BHN.

I need to get out the pencils and see but I can't see how, unless setting can cause a big jump. This is lead sheets with some tin added, maybe I got carried away, but no added SB alloys.

[dkf]

If you send me a bullet I could always test them on my Cabine Tree tester for you.

[noisewaterphd]

It might need to be re-calibrated, did you buy it brand new?

The way I see it, it could be any of the following:

1. User Error
2. Calibration issue
3. Your alloy has a BHN of 22


I'm very interested in what you find out here, I have been giving much consideration to replacing my Lee with the LBT.

[Hannibal]

I have used an LBT hardness tester and found it to be quite accurate. I tend to agree with the possibilities listed above. Primarily #1 and #3.

[Spector]

Test a piece of pure lead and see what it reads.........Mike

[Walla2]

I'm with Hannibal on this. Good product

[JoeH]

I don't believe it possible to reach BHN of 22 with just lead and tin.

[Chill Wills]

I have been using the LBT tester since the late 1980's or early 1990's My memory of this is getting bad.

What a great tester! Direct read out and first class support from the maker! I use it almost weekly and the ability to quickly get an accurate hardness readout, as in seconds, start to finish, with out any special optical equipment or conversion charts is (for me) the only way to go!

Yes, I have used friends and they have used mine. It is interesting when they use my LBT and see how easy it is. We have gotten together with our testers and compared ease of use and results on the same samples. I will be sticking with the LBT.

[brassrat]

I had to get this after all the reviews. It was used or opened box, but looks brand new. Will follow up

[Dan Cash]

I had to get this after all the reviews. It was used or opened box, but looks brand new. Will follow up

Can't comment on your LBT tester though LBT makes super fine moulds. I will say that I have run into some lead sheeting from X-Ray rooms that is harder than the hubs of hell. Don't know the alloy but it is hard. Makes good high velocity paper patched bullets.

[Springfield]

Can you scratch you bullets with your fingernail? I have an LBT also, but after using it and testing all kinds of alloys for the last 10 years I can usually get withing 3-4 points on the Brinell scale with my pocket knife and a drop to my concrete floor. Ya know, dead soft, kinda soft, WW, pretty hard and really hard. Testing the bullets on the LBT just verifies everything.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I use the Lee tool to dimple the flat nose of a boolit, then I measure the width of the impression on my Nikon 6C Optical Comparator. It reads out to .00001 (10 millionths) and The Lee Tool if set up right is very Accurate and Repeatable..

By using this method and the Lee Chart you have to interpolate between the numbers but it is easy to do and results in very accurate readings.

The kicker on the Lee Tool is being able to measure the dimple accurately. Unfortunately the Lee Microscope Comparator is only graduated in .002 increments. This is still usable if you devise a way to hold everything completely steady as you measure. Several here have made holders that hold the boolit and scope and get good repeatable results using that. I might add that you need to test several boolits and obtain Repeatable Results. If your readings don't repeat you really don't know what you've got.

The reason why I use the Lee Tool is that it is nothing more than a large spring inside a tube with a ball on the end. It repeats exactly every time. You set up your press so that it cams over center just as the Penetrator is pushed in the required amount. That way it does the same thing every time and the only variable is the actual lead itself.

The only calibration is between the spring and the chart. Since it is doubtful that the spring will change any significant amount over time, as long as the spring wasn't bad from the factory,,, the tools should function consistently, indefinitely.

This can't be said of other types of tools. They all depend on reading the amount of penetration and comparing that to a chart or scale. But they also depend on the actual tool itself not being disrupted and thus changing the relationship between the penetrator and the scale. If they are dropped or mishandled they will change. This would be very hard to do with the Lee Tool simply because of the design of the tool.

My .02

Randy

[brassrat]

Well things seem to be better. The pin that holds the spring was not set right. Not knowing how the thing worked, it seemed like I followed instructions, but the feel is different now. I now get a 14 and the pencil test gave me a 2B as the last to dig in and not skid. Now to find the chart.

[brassrat]

Ut oh I found a chart that says my 3B skidding pencil would be around a 10 BHN and 20-1 mix which seems possible. These wadcutters are 1 1/2 old.

[EDG]

See the middle of page for the yammerschooner article


Los Angeles Silhouette Club Index (http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm)

http://www.lasc.us/Shay-BHN-Tester-Experiment.htm

I was tester #4 in the LBT data.

You know it takes a little bit of practice to get consistent results.
I knew my results were pretty good because I had certified 63/37 alloy that tested right on the button.

[tja6435]

Ask Veral Smith

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/ask-veral-smith-of-lbt-qa/

[Chill Wills]

See the middle of page for the yammerschooner article

Los Angeles Silhouette Club Index (http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm)
http://www.lasc.us/Shay-BHN-Tester-Experiment.htm

I was tester #4 in the LBT data.

You know it takes a little bit of practice to get consistent results.
I knew my results were pretty good because I had certified 63/37 alloy that tested right on the button.

Do you recall the year you participated in this test?
Are you still happy with your LBT today?

[EDG]

Bullets were cast at the same time on March 23, 2008, and testers were asked to measure on May 10, 2008. This extended time frame was designed to allow for age hardening changes to subside. The scope of this test included 42 different testers using a total of 47 different testing tools. Ten bullets were supplied for each testing tool, and participants were instructed to test the nose of the bullet in a manner consistent with their normal testing procedures. Of the four major types of tester used, 13 were Cabine Tree, eight were LBT, 12 were Lee, and nine were SAECO’S. In addition, four other brands of tester were included, and one batch of bullets was tested on regularly calibrated laboratory equipment. More information about the lab testing can be found on the “lab” excel worksheet.

Yes I am happy with the LBT tool. I got it on ebay for $18. Since I got it used I had to practice with it a bit to understand how to get consistent results with it.
I practiced on certified 63/37 solder and on pure lead. I only use 2 alloys - 20-1 and COWW so I am not asking much from the tool.






Do you recall the year you participated in this test?
Are you still happy with your LBT today?

[Hannibal]

For cryin' out loud. You are pushin' a hardened steel ball into a piece of lead. What in the Wide, Wide World of Sports does the calendar year have to do with it?

[brassrat]

Thanks for the links

[deepwater]

Age hardening.
He was also describing an official test, so all information is relevant.


deepwater

[deepwater]

For cryin' out loud. You are pushin' a hardened steel ball into a piece of lead. What in the Wide, Wide World of Sports does the calendar year have to do with it?

Age hardening.

He was also involved with an "official" test, so all information is relevant.



deepwater

[Chill Wills]

For cryin' out loud. You are pushin' a hardened steel ball into a piece of lead. What in the Wide, Wide World of Sports does the calendar year have to do with it?

[smilie=s: Maybe jumping to conclusions isn't your best skill.

If you feel I owe you an explanation, it is this.
I asked because I took part in a blind test of BHN testers 13-15 years ago and wondered if these were somehow connected.
We Good?

Michael Rix

[Hannibal]

Yep. Sorry.

[Chill Wills]

Thank you!

[EDG]

We probably took part in the same test.
The test that I participated in was blind also. I knew nothing of the alloy, HT, aging or anything else.
It was my task to perform the test as consistent as possible and report the results from my aged LBT tool.
All of the bullets tested were of the same alloy and lot and were intended to be a test of the testers.
Commercial Industrial Brinnel testers calibrated back to the NIST were also used to test identical specimens for comparison
with the results of the home testers owned by the casting community.

The Los Angeles Silhouette seems to have become the default archive for a lot of lead alloy knowledge and casting techniques.
Along with this site, it forms a basis for a lot of what is known about bullet casting.


[smilie=s: Maybe jumping to conclusions isn't your best skill.

If you feel I owe you an explanation, it is this.
I asked because I took part in a blind test of BHN testers 13-15 years ago and wondered if these were somehow connected.
We Good?

Michael Rix

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I've had mine nearly twenty years, or since he started making them, iirc.

I had an old mold made from a Lyman 30 caliber that makes round slugs .50 caliber. I made them out of about six different alloys that I knew the Bhn of, and tested them. Every couple of years I make up a new batch out of the same known alloys and calibrate on mine. It still works like new.

I am inclined to suggest operator error on the calibration.

[brassrat]

Operator error was my guess but it turned out the spring pin was loose. It seems, much better now, but still showing a bit high.

[Iowa Fox]

I've had my LBT tester for a long time. I also have a old Saeco (Steel one) that I use to cross check. The LBT is the best on the market with its direct reading.

[Screwbolts]

I am happy with every and all products I have ever gotten from Verel of LBT.

Ken

[brassrat]

Me too