Lyman M die

[JSH]

I know some of you have made some push through type dies for odd sizes.
I was just wondering if anyone has made the expanders for M-dies in some of the odd sizes we may encounter here and there?
Yes, I know the universal belling dies can work. I have tried them and have had the best results with the M die.
I started fooling with the 7.65 Argentine, then jumped on the 6.5 Swede while I was at it. The 30 M die may work on the 7.65, but may not be really correct.
The Swede, well I didn't have a 6.5 M die, but did have a .270. I just belled enough so the GC would fit in the case mouth. Then remember that the chambers being some what over sized, thought it may chamber along with helping to center. Looks like it will work with out it into the sizer far enough to take the bell out.
I have yet to fire either.

Another thought and this could be put on the back burner for a winter project. I know most of us have a few calibers that we like but just don't shoot as much as true favorites. Mostly becasue the boolit diameter falls + or - of where most of them do.
With that in mind, is there any way one could make a universal push through die using bushings of various sizes? Maybe even make them some what tapered to swge down some of the boolits that are a bit larger than we would like.

I think the idea would have some merit? One die body and a half dozen bushings and a fellow could try several different diameters to see what the gun prefered. This would give a lot of capabilities to several moulds.

I thought of this when doing a bit of reaserch on the Argentine and saw reference to sizing the 323470 down to .313 or .314. This would also maybe give some help to those who were playing with the old 8mm Steyr's a while back with the .330+ bores and using the .338 moulds.
Jeff

[Calamity Jake]

Lyman will or use to make custom size expanders for there M die. Give em a call.

I work in a machine shop and have made odd sizes for myself, but just don't have the time to offer my services here or I would.

[leftiye]

I'm messing with one right now. I don't like it - I would prefer the expander pin to stick out where you could see what you're doing. The thread on the plugs is 10-32 so no problem there, just turn your plug the shape and size you like and screw it in. For some reason the large thread that appears to be 9/16X18 won't screw on a 9/16X18 thread I made. I've got the thread down to where it starts on and goes about 10 turns, but won't go farther, seems like maybe a metric pita. I think I'm gonna make a die that's solid and screws into my press and sticks out the bottom slightly and then bore it for something like a 3/8X20 thread and just screw the plugs into the bottom of it.

[454PB]

Here's a picture of the ones I've made. It just a 7/8" X 14 tpi piece with a hole drilled and a recessed allen head set screw. I can make any size expander I want, and as leftiye wants, everything is visible during the process.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/eddard49/Homemadeneckexpanders.jpg

[leftiye]

Yeah, Just like that!

[floodgate]

Hmmm!

It just struck me that one could get an "el-cheapo" pin gauge set, drill and thread one end to, say #10 x 32 to take a long hex socket setscrew, radius the other end lightly, and screw into 454PB's holder. I wonder how hard those pins actually are - I'll hafta go out and tick one of mine with a file and see...

...OOOPPPSS! Hardened; another bright idea down the tubes.

Fg

[454PB]

If you have a lathe, these are really easy to make, mine are made out of old bolts. The end that goes in the 7/8 X 14 fits into a 5/16" hole, and the shoulder keeps everything square and true. There are no threads to mess with except the set screw on the die body. The allen set screw just keeps it from falling out, all the force is taken by the shoulder.

[NoDakJak]

I have been using a couple tapered punchs for opening cases for which I don't have an "M" Die. Quick fix for the problem but not the best one. These dies look like a great solution. I do believe that I will make some one piece dies before turning some of the two piece ones. The M die is not always a cure all. When I was testing 32-20 loads I started with the M die and was getting velocity variations of a very scary 400+ fps with some powders. Simply using a flare instead of the M die reduced the fluctuation by about 50%. Switching from alox to a hard lube reduced the flux about another 50%. I believe that the problem was that the case wall are so thin that there just isn't enough neck tension to promote good powder burn. I noticed that many of the loads that were unacceptable in the revolvers responded very well in my Savage Model 23. Neil

[Urny]

JSH, I have just such a sizing die as you are talking about. It is made by retired eastern Colorado Sherrif Bill Wood, in Kit Carson, CO. You can find him on the web by doing a search for WTA Manufacturing, or on the phone at 800-700-3054. The bushings, which are made from 5/8th's or 9/16th's rod, are held in place by being inserted through a bit of plastic bread sack, and removed with a bit of dowel. It's a different way of approaching this for sure, and at the time I bought mine was protected by a U.S. patent.

Herself grew up in Sherrif Woods' county and once narrowly avoided being arrested by him when trying to get in to her grandma's house through the bathroom window. She was late getting home from work at the hospital after school, and her grandma locked her out. When LINDA tried to climb in, grandma called the cops. Of course, when he got there and found out what was afoot, the sherrif helped her in through the same window. He and I had a good laugh over that story when I ordered my die and the first set of bushings. Normally (?) when that story comes up, some exageration is called for and she is normally reported as being arrested by good Sherrif Wood, but she knows too many members of this board, and it's best to tell it this way.

I like the die.

[Buckshot]

...............I believe Maven has one of similar make, or from the same guy. A person could buy one of the small import 7" lathes and make such stuff as that, no problem.

...............Buckshot

[Maven]

I do inded have several of the dies that Buckshot mentioned, but they're not M-die substitutes. Rather, they're tapering dies for .30cal. CB's (one by Ed Wosika, the other by Buckshot). The third die is a .30cal. straight line bullet seater by CH-4 with interchangeable inserts (still available).

As for M-dies, do you know that a given die, say for the .30-06 (too lazy to look up Lyman's product no.), can be used on a variety of cartridges? E.g., I've been using mine to expand the necks & bell case mouths on the 7.5 Swiss, .30-30Win. and '06 with nary a problem. The same die will also work on the 7.65 Arg. Mau. cartridge, but you'll need to screw it down quite a bit.

[JSH]

NoDakJak, the 30-20 is one of my favorite rounds. I have not experiance what you speak of. I have tried several powders for different applications. The three I have settled on for bullet weights from 100-205 are bullseye, unique and AA#9/WC820. All I do is neck size and bell with the Lyman belling tool for the 30-20, not an M die.

Urny, thanks, will do a search.

Buckshot, I had thoughts on one of those little lathes. After a bit of reading and talked to a few locals that have tried them, I don't think it is capable of holding tolerances to what is called for.
Some one kick me, a fellow tried to giive me an old small craftsman lathe with a bunch of parts a few years back and I turned it down. It had some noise in it and and needed repairs, the price was right though.


Maven, yes the M-die will work on sevral calibers. But, does it work as intended on say the wee bit larger .312 bored Argentine? I found my neck area to be a bit larger than I thought. Also with this in mind it sounds like the the Argentine may have some of the same un welcome fratures that the 6.5 Swede has. I didn't have anything to bell the 6.5 with so did some looking and more reading. I did have a 270 M die. I sued it on the 6.d cases just to bell. I didn't run it up in to the seating die far enough to take the expanded part out, it would still chamber and the bolt would close with no problem. This may or may not help with accuracy. I have yet to try the 60 I loaded the other night.

As to some of you wanting a expander/M type die that you can see what is going on. Look at the K&M expander. It is in line price wise with the M die, but it is not a true belling die. If the blasted anvils were held in a bit differently I would try my hand at making a couple.

Fourarmed, are you bored and lots of time on your hands? LOL
Jeff

[Buckshot]

Buckshot, I had thoughts on one of those little lathes. After a bit of reading and talked to a few locals that have tried them, I don't think it is capable of holding tolerances to what is called for.

Jeff

..............Do an internet search using like: 7" lathe. There is some pretty great stuff done on them. Now if you want an M die spud of .302" and start out with a piece of .375" stock. No you won't dial in and peel off .073" and there it is :-). But yes you can get down to fractions of a thousandth.

...............Buckshot

[Baron von Trollwhack]

And of course you can put regular top punches from your Lyman sizer in 454PB's die body and have homemade caliber specific GC seaters that look similar to shell holders, only different. BvT

[MtGun44]

Why not the Lee Universal Expander Die for about $15 ? It works for
all calibers up to ~.45 - won't do my .50-70, tho.

Bill

[Buckshot]

...............What makes me prefer the Lyman M die more then any other is the step, and then bevel or flare. Naturally Lyman makes them for generic measurements that the firearms are "Supposed" to have, ie: .300" x .308". Now if you have a rifle that wants a .310" slug you eaither have to make a slightly larger M die spud, or hope the boolit will expand the brass, and not be slimmed down itself.

The step at the casemouth sure makes setting the slug in nice and straight too, before seating.

................Buckshot

[JSH]

Ditto to what buckshot said.
I had a lee expander. It is generic and does what it says it will do. I saw no difference in it or an M die, UNTIL I went past 100M. This occured on several different guns with bottle neck type cases.
I thought about it and did a bit of fooling with some 357 and 44 cases. I only partial sized these two and saw improved results.
This works for me as each gun has it's own cases and OAL length. Most of the masses just want somthing that will shoot in everything.
Jeff

[leadman]

An M die for the 7.65, 303, etc. is still listed by Lyman. I have had one for about ten years and it works good. They also list a 31S for 32-20.

Has anyone tried to turn down an M-die? Wonder if it is possible with sandpaper backed by a file in a drill?

[ktw]

Buffalo Arms Co sells M die type expansion plugs in a wide variety of sizes and will make them to your specifications to order.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,180.html

There are also a couple of decent technical articles on modifying/improving M die plugs on the Shooters Forum that I found worthwhile.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/39
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/46

-ktw

[Dale53]

I don't have a lathe (even tho' I was trained as a machinist) but have a friend who has made several custom size expanders for me. I MUCH prefer the Lee expanding die because there are no threads to cut. You just make the expanding punch (it is a floating design) and can do the "M" thing quite easily.

My BPCR expanders are custom made to minimize damage to the soft bullets I use (30/1 lead/tin). Using an expander that is either bullet size or .001" smaller gives .002"-.003" case neck tension that I find best (the brass is springy and contracts when the expander is removed).

FWIW

Dale53