Solder

[Scorpius]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160224/3f86b53927287876b074a6139b3736d1.jpg

So I've had this from my military days fixing electrical systems in army helicopters. I thought it was a lifetime supply lol. But now that I'm venturing into casting it looks like this will go quickly.

Am I correct this helps mold fill out and antimony is used to harden? I understand tin helps harden but not as efficiently.

So is tin and pewter pretty much the same thing?

[Scooby]

Correct tin fills out mold antimony hardens the lead. A hard alloy would be like commercial cast 6/2/92 that is 6% antimony, 2% tin and the remainder lead. I have not ventured into pewter yet I believe it has tin in it but also contains other elements too.

I am sure others will chime in shortly.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Tin is tin
Pewter is about 90% tin (up to 97% tin).
your solder appears to be 60% tin, and that spool won't last long.

[Scorpius]

So let's say I throw in 4 lbs of coww for my first session of casting. How much of this solder should I toss in? Like 2 oz?

[RogerDat]

The lead alloy calculator is your friend. Free download of a spread sheet that allows you to enter weights of different alloys and it will tell you what the ratios of alloy it will yield and approx. hardness in BHN.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?105952-Lead-alloy-calculators

Pewter is mostly tin (Sn), may have some antimony (Sb) and even a little copper (Cu). The copper toughens the lead alloy. Makes hard alloy less fragile. So pewter is very desirable. But solder works fine just harder to find in quantity. Pewter can be found in thrift stores, salvation army, garage sales, and estate sales. Not too hard to pick up a few pounds if you look for it on a regular basis. Sometimes at garage and estate sales one can find solder spools cheap. Lead free solder is mostly tin, expensive new but if you can land some at garage sale prices it is good score.

Stuff shows up pretty regular in the Swapping and Selling forum, at about 1/2 of what it sells for retail.


BTW - how much for that round of .22 LR ? :bigsmyl2:

[fryboy]

Tin is very desirable/valuable ...most of us run as little as possible, if you're not trying to make a specific alloy we only add as much as needed ,quite often with ww's turning up the heat a bit will help with castability and no tin is needed, for true there's alot of variables in there ( sharp cornered molds with lots of lube grooves and the tumble lube molds seem to need some for me )
Depending upon your solder ...if rosin cored you can add it straight to the pot ( rosin is one of if perhaps not the best flux ) acid core ...uugh ...needs snelted down by it's self first to get the acid out

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

So let's say I throw in 4 lbs of coww for my first session of casting. How much of this solder should I toss in? Like 2 oz?
The short answer to your short question is, Yes.

BUT, what Fryboy has said about mold fillout is very true and many times adjusting heat and/or mold type require no extra tin in COWW. And it should also be mentioned, that a softer alloy is fine for low pressure calibers. I use a 50-50 alloy (COWW and Near Pure Lead) for 45 acp and 38 spl.

[fryboy]

You're wasting precious alloy Jon lolz 4 to 1 lead/ww works fairly well in those two calibers, in this case tho I do add about 1% tin for the malleability it adds ( the flying ashtray ermm 452-374 dv HP does awesome with this alloy !!! ) the sizer hardly kisses them tho as the hi lead alloys tend to cast smaller, but in times when soft lead is scarce straight ww's are fine

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

You're wasting precious alloy Jon lolz 4 to 1 lead/ww works fairly well in those two calibers, in this case tho I do add about 1% tin for the malleability it adds ( the flying ashtray ermm 452-374 dv HP does awesome with this alloy !!! ) the sizer hardly kisses them tho as the hi lead alloys tend to cast smaller, but in times when soft lead is scarce straight ww's are fine
LOL, yes I probably am wasting precious alloy...although I sitting flush, no scarcity here. :bigsmyl2:

[fryboy]

I've seen the tides turn ever way imaginable ...including trying a few from pure tin ,( read about it in an old mag and had to try it out myself ) I do run straight lino in some hi- velocity 22's and a few get a genuine Lyman #2 but for the most part I'll run as soft as feasible
I suppose the main thing is that as we go we're building the one thing a person can not buy at any price - experience ! ( well practical application etc but ... )

[RogerDat]

Hey wait a minute fryboy ain't experience what you get when you mess with stuff you have no clue about? Often noted for being painful or expensive way to learn a lesson?

I have been casting 30 and 32 cal for rifle out of Lyman #2 but will start reducing that with some WW lead as I get a feel for the molds and how it all works in the rifles. Powder coating will be another excuse to reduce alloy content. I try to balance things so the whole inventory can be melted to make 2\3\95 Sn\Sb\Pb Score some lino and that has me looking for plain or WW's. Score WW's and I'm on the hunt for pewter or tin.

I'll take anything I can get but I try to work toward being able to convert it all into a big batch of 2% tin WW alloy. I keep all separate but shoot for amounts. Not much can't be loaded with that.

[fryboy]

Well amigo definitions can be a trikki thing lolz,dad used to say that experience was what you got when you get what you didn't want in the first place ,there's some truth to that for true but it's not all inclusive ;)
I've played with several variations as I could, the gained experience/knowledge was worth it for me,of note not all worked ( yeah,I pushed some too hard and others not hard enough ) #2 will work suitably well for most things but isn't really needed for alot of things, oddly enough the so called hardball alloy (2/6/92) has roughly the same hardness and results as #2 (5/5/90) yet in actuality is nothing more than lino cut 50% with pure lead lolz if you cut that hardball alloy again with 50% pure lead it's real close to clip on ww's (1/3/96) yet cutting that yet again will allow my regular 452-374 ( non HP ) to actually expand and cause more damage something I don't get much of with ww's [shrugz]

[RogerDat]

Lyman #2 can be cut 50/50 with plain for 2.5/2.5 which is good for Lee TL design or 50/50 with COWW's for slightly harder version. I'm in a sort of a weird spot I have probably as much printers lead as COWW's. I have to scrounge to get WW's but ran into a couple of large batches of printers lead which I was all over like a duck on a June bug.

I guess experience is what you call the feeling you get when you realize that the 400# barrel of lead you just barely managed to slide out of the car onto the dolly is sinking the dolly up to the axle in the gravel driveway. You suddenly wonder what sort of idiot would not just pull the car up sideways to the front of the garage and slide it out onto the concrete garage floor. Well at least I'm smart enough to take enough buckets for WW's that I only have to fill them 1/2 way.

Scrap yard solder or pewter while not common can be cheap if they sell it priced as lead. Have had some yards tack a bit more on but still way cheaper than most sources. Sort of funny, they say "well those solder bars are 20 cents a pound more than plain lead", and your thinking 5# of 50/50 solder bars for a buck a pound, major score! Both sides be happy. That was my sweetest solder deal BTW. And I dug through a bin with snow in it outside to get them but man that was a good day of scrounging.

[Scorpius]

I can grab lead flashing and such from my local scrap for .50 / pound is that good? I'm also assuming the bin I looked into they must consider lead and pewter to be thrown into same thing cause I saw lead flashing, lead from stained glass and then something that looked like a trophy or cup of some type about 1 ft tall and assumed it was pewter

[RogerDat]

I can grab lead flashing and such from my local scrap for .50 / pound is that good? I'm also assuming the bin I looked into they must consider lead and pewter to be thrown into same thing cause I saw lead flashing, lead from stained glass and then something that looked like a trophy or cup of some type about 1 ft tall and assumed it was pewter

Lead flashing is probably plain lead and 50 cents / lb. is good price. Stained glass lead is also mostly plain with solder at the joints. The trophy cup probably was pewter, one of those small pocket torches can tell you or it may be stamped someplace underneath or on an edge.

All good stuff. You can usually find someone to swap plain lead for WW lead. Muzzle loaders have to have plain soft lead and it is also good for mixing with other stuff such as printers lead.
In order of value, the pewter trophy, the stained glass lead, the lead flashing. Do try to bend the stained glass lead, some is zinc and it will be harder and stiffer. Sometimes the zinc stuff gets past the yard workers.

I would cut the joints with solder out and keep them separate, for the tin in the solder. Melt them into a thin bar or "coins" in a cupcake pan then have the yard check the tin (Sn) percentage with XRF gun. The joints are not going to generally add a lot of tin to the whole batch of lead came (window lead frames are called came) but all the joints will add a decent amount of tin to a smaller batch of lead alloy.

[Scorpius]

Yea the stained glass stuff bent easily under its own weight. Almost like a rubber hose that's been heated up.
Hmmmm I might need to go grab it up, smelt it and sell it to fund my first mold.

[RogerDat]

Yea the stained glass stuff bent easily under its own weight. Almost like a rubber hose that's been heated up.
Hmmmm I might need to go grab it up, smelt it and sell it to fund my first mold.

It does tend to be very nice lead. Your not going to make mad loot but plain lead will generally go about $1 a pound and if you buy it @ 50 cents and make ingots you might clear 40 cents a pound after propane, and gas to go get it BUT I don't think you have the time or number of discussion posts required to list stuff for sale in Wanted to Sell.

You can however list in Wanted to Buy so you might try posting the mold style and caliber you want to "buy" along with stating your desire to use the lead as the purchase price or at least some of the purchase price. I "bought" a set of dies with an exchange of lead and there are always those that are interested in more lead on a casting forum. Funny how that works. One of them will have a suitable mold to trade for it.

[Scorpius]

Yea I think I need what 30 posts :-)
Yea I have some various items I need to post for sale/trade hoping for a nice mold trade out

[Scorpius]

Ironically....^^^^^ post #30 :-)