Burned 45 ACP brass

[John Hill]

After noticing a pattern of "burn marks" on one side on my spent 45 ACP brass, I loaded the fresh rounds in the magazine with the name on the head stamp at the top and fired them through so I could determine the area of the spent brass that was affected. All had the burn marks shown at the same spot with an orientation from about 8 o'clock to 11 o'clock.
All brass had been tumbled until bright brass all around before loading. The same burn pattern was apparent on all cases regardless of the load. All used Lee TL452-230-2R 230 gr LRN pushed by Bulls Eye powder. I was testing for pattern using 10 rounds of each load starting with 4.1 gr BE and went up to 5.0 gr BE in 1/10 gr increments. All rounds were within SAAMI specs.
161711
I am new to 45 ACP so I don't know what causes this or if it is normal. The pistol is a new Springfield Armory Range Officer 5" 45 ACP.
John

[lancem]

Normal

[DLCTEX]

Not a high pressure round. I wouldn't worry.

[Outer Rondacker]

Just took a bunch of factory brass from Federal that look the same way. Its fine.

[John Boy]

No wimp charges and put a hard crimp on the cases because the brass is not sealing to the wall of the chamber. I have no spent cases that look like yours

[gwpercle]

Do all of the different loadings, from 4.1 to 5.0 look like this ?
Which powder charge were these ?
Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4, shows, for this bullet , a min. start load of 4.6 grains of Bullseye. If these are 4.1 grains then , it's a not quite enough pressure to seal the case against the chamber wall thing, it's not dangerous, just a sign of not quite enough pressure being generated . I get this at times when light loading 41 magnum ammo with cast boolits .
This is one of the reason's a minimum charge is listed in handbooks, to get your load into the proper pressure range.
Gary

[Bonz]

Too light of a powder charge, the brass case is not expanding and sealing in the chamber when fired

[John Hill]

I have been using the only manual that I have and it is the Lyman Reloading Handbook 49th Edition and they don't list a 230 gr LRN so I did the best that I could. I ordered the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition today and hopefully it will give more info. It says that it has Lee precision load data so I'll see.
Thanks for the feedback. When I get the Lyman cast Bullet Handbook I will see where they say to begin.
Thanks
John

[dondiego]

You are being safe and that is good. You can increase the powder charge in increments.

[Scharfschuetze]

As long as you are getting good accuracy with your load and it functions your pistol reliably, you don't need to worry. The lack of obturation in the forward half of the case is no big deal as the last half of the case is obviously preventing any gas blow by into the pistol. You may want to scrub your chamber with a good bronze brush to rid yourself of any excessive lube and carbon build up, but that's the only precaution that I would take.

As noted above, the 45 ACP is a low pressure round (less PSI than a .22 LR) so it's to be expected with light loads. This issue is really obvious with 185 grain SWCs used for steel or bullseye competition where loads are very light. The fact that the build up is from 8 to 11 O'Clock could indicate that your chamber is slightly out of round, slightly oversize or that your extractor is pulling the case away from the chamber wall there. As the extractor is at 3 O'Clock, this could very well be the case.

As noted by others above, a higher pressure load should obturate the brass more fully; but heck, why fix it if it's working for you.

[44MAG#1]

Pick which load shoots well, throw the cases in the tumble, clean them and reload them again and shoot more and have more fun.
Much "to do" about nothing really.

[GhostHawk]

I had some .40sw cases looking exactly like that. Double checked the load data and found that I was running light.

Went from 4.5 grains of Red Dot to 5.0 and cases came out clean.

IMO not enough pressure to seal brass to chamber wall. Increase powder if load data says you can. If you can't might want to find a cleaner powder.

I have decided that smokeless powder and women have a lot in common.
They all have their likes and dislikes, and if you can see to it that they are happy in their surroundings, well things just go better.

If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody going to be happy.

[sigep1764]

This is the same thing that happened to me while building up my hollowpoint load in 9mm. I used this and flattened primers as my safe loading area. I found the loads in this area where the case did not expand to the chamber wall were quite dirty and eventually led to a dirty enough chamber to not fully go into battery with my cz75b. I started upping the charge to flattened primers, then backed off. Now I have cleane chambers, cleaner brass, and a solid performing load.

[runfiverun]

the 45 acp is a super low pressure round.
the top end is still about 4-5k below the 22 lr.

[dudel]

Just soot (not burned). Typical of low pressure loadings that don't generate enough pressure quick enough to expand the brass and seal the chamber.

Often found when people use light/medium loads of Unique (then complain how dirty it is!). Up the charge, and Unique cleans up nicely.

[w5pv]

Most of,if not all of my 45ACP are sooted at the case mouth,no big problem.Clean and reload.Some of the blame can be the powder you are using.

[mdi]

As the consensuses says, yep, no big deal. I have had the same soot marks on many of my cartridges and it does no harm to the brass or gun. Many times I'll experience this when working up a load, going from the starting load up and correct it by a slightly larger powder charge. "Normally" soot is indicative of a low powered load and case not completely sealing the chamber...

[s1120]

All my low end target rounds do that. As was said, but low end loads, that don't expand the case out much

[Blackwater]

That's not a light load for a 230 grainer in .45, but the ACP is still a pretty low pressure loading. If the brass has gotten hard from repeated loadings, or if it was just hard to start with, this can, in low pressure loadings, tend to produce the kind of smoking (not "burning") that you're seeing. I've shot an awful lot of rounds that looked exactly like that, and not a one has been a problem, ever. Good to notice stuff like this and ask, though, so ya' done good, sir! It's always good to see someone paying close attention to their loads. I still don't shoot anyone's reloads except mine, with only the fewest exceptions possible, and then only if I'm there when they're loaded, and the loading is done by someone that I know and trust with my LIFE. Not many like that around! Keep up the good work. You may well wind up being one of the very few whose reloads I'd shoot in my guns!

[fredj338]

As noted, totally normal for charges at the bottom end. As you get closer to the top end, you should see the case sealing the chamber & you'll get less carbon. Of course switching to something cleaner burning like WST or Solo 1000, clays, etc will prevent a lot of that too.

[Tazza]

As already stated, the case is not sealing up the chamber due to light loads. Different powders will have different amounts of carbon. I had a friend that had a .38 super and he ran light loads, the amount of crud that got on his cases was insane. Also the fact at the time, he didn't own a tumbler to clean his brass :)

It's good you noticed it and thought it didn't look right and asked questions. It's always best to be safe than sorry!

[Smoke4320]

Too light of a powder charge, the brass case is not expanding and sealing in the chamber when fired
ding, ding, ding

[nvbirdman]

As the slide starts to move back, the extractor keeps the right side of the case against the chamber and also pulls the left side away from the chamber.
Where would the hot gases go? To the left side of the case, causing the case to be blackened from the eight o'clock to the eleven o'clock position.

[John Boy]

As already stated, the case is not sealing up the chamber due to light loads

45 Auto reloads - mixed head stamps in a Ruger SR 1911, H&G-68 bullets & Lee FC Die:
* 4.4gr Red Dot - 816 fps - zero blowback
* 5.9gr ETR7 - 905 fps - zero blowback

[David2011]

Be sure to clean the carbon from the chamber once in a while. I had my chamber carbon up until it quit going into battery. Loads were really light and lots of 'em.

David

[OS OK]

No wimp charges and put a hard crimp on the cases because the brass is not sealing to the wall of the chamber. I have no spent cases that look like yours

Careful about that…If you 'taper crimp' too tight you may start having 'head spacing' problems…light primer strikes or even get cases seating in chamber too deep and pressure problems occur. Look at the loading manual to see the minimum diameter of that case mouth. (from memory but .471" comes to mind) but check it anyway.
Unless there is excessive soot (I got it from trying to use old Herco to slow start and still get higher velocity) sooting is normal depending on chamber condition. Just clean the heck out of it and accept the amount of sooting/smoking you have, your charge is stout enough to seal the brass in chamber. Some powders burn cleaner than others too.

What really happens when you ignite powder in a cartridge? Look at this post here for a moment and get some facts about pressure/temperature/time/velocity.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?297867-The-Wizardry-of-Propulsion

[Tazza]

I was always told to not crimp semi-auto cases, they are meant to build pressure in the barrel not the case. You crimp tight enough so the projectile won't move though.

[Smk SHoe]

I have the same thing with a springfield 1911. mine has about 55,000 rounds thru it. mostly cast but a few thousand copper plated. rifling is still good but the chamber will accept waaay out of spec ammo. Have some ammo that will drop in the chamber and rattle around that won't chamber in a new gun. it shoots to good to go and change out the barrel. Just tumble the brass and reload away.

[dondiego]

A new barrel is in your future!

[6622729]

A new barrel is in your future!

Nah. That's a classic sign of a light load. While it may cycle the gun, is not sealing the brass to the chamber wall.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I think the many reassurances are correct, but although it isn't a high pressure round, it is most likely being fired in a pistol that doesn't give outstanding support to the rear end of the case. If you or someone else is still ucertain you should measure the diameter there in different directions, to make sure it is, like the schoolboy definition of a circle, "something that is round all round". It almost certainly will be, and then there is nothing to worry about.

[6bg6ga]

Absolutely nothing to worry about. You work up a load that is accurate in your gun and don't worry about any powder burns or discoloration period. You ONLY crimp enough to hold the bullet in place! Too much crimp can result in leading. I don't personally buy the idea of the load not being heavy enough. I load maximum loads of 231 with a 230 RN cast lead bullet and I get the same type of pattern and this is with all three of my 1911's the newest being a S&W 1911 out of the custom shop Simply put load what works and don't worry.

[6bg6ga]

My crimp is just enough to remove any belling allowed in order to start the bullet. I load a magazine after measuring the lengths of the rounds I am putting in the magazine. I fire a few and remove all that are left and re-measure the length to see if anything changed. I used to taper crimp more but have learned too much results in improper bullet fit and leading. Once the taper crimp die is set leave it alone.

[Dtm870]

Good info, I am testing some 9mm loads this weekend that I made last night. Now I will have one other thing to keep an eye out for. I am using TG which was always pretty clean for me

[dondiego]

Nah. That's a classic sign of a light load. While it may cycle the gun, is not sealing the brass to the chamber wall.

He stated that he has shot over 55,000 rounds and his chamber is way out of spec. This is not due to light loads!