Lyman 4500 problem

[thursdaymike]

So I tried to size and lube some 30 cal. Bullets. Took a lot of force to push bullet down. Then it took a hammer to get it out.I asked on here about it and we came to the conclusion I was trying to size to far down.ok I didn't mess with it any more until yesterday. I have bullets that dropped .460-.461 trying to size to .459 they are still getting stuck. They have lube on them. I'm so frustrated with this thing I just want to throw it in the trash and pan lube. I will post video tonight if I can.

[fryboy]

Getting stuck with different sizing dies in it from the sounds of it ...hmmm pre-lubing the first couple helped me with ease of sizing and I'm going to assume that you have the pivot points on the linkage lubed which leaves me thinking that you may be trying to size too deep ...I'm also hoping that you have it mounted solidly to something
Another thought ...how hard are they ? A for instance would be water quenched boolits get a whole lot harder to size as they age ,by having to really pull down on them also can swage them ,excess lead would extrude into the lube holes and then requiring extra effort to either resize or even start back up ,and the upstroke on these had less leverage than the downstrokes,suggest a lil love tap with a nonmarring hammer on the bottom of the yoke as you're pulling up and try adjusting the bullet stop to bare minimum needed

[thursdaymike]

I'm using wheel weights. I did water quench and they have been sitting for a couple months. I will try pouring some today.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Fryboy has supplied some great advice, I would like to add one thing...I'm guessing by your question, post count, and join date, you are new to sizing boolits? and further guessing you are using brand new dies ?

If so, I'll offer my recent experience, I've ordered about 4 brand new Lyman brand dies in the last couple years. Two of them had visible machining lines inside the die, and needed to be polished (or returned).

This is how I found out...
I installed a brand new .402 in a Lyman 45. I will admit I didn't pre-lube the boolits, as a matter of fact, I cleaned the die, which had some light grease in it. The first boolit got stuck, I had to remove the die, and use a hammer and brass punch to extract the boolit (the Lyman 45 is not a strong press and I didn't want to break anything). I re-installed the Die, I then pre-lubed a new boolit, that boolit got stuck. I had to again remove the die. I then preceeded to clean up the die, and look inside...Machining lines, I polished them with a wooden dowel and 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper, by hand. Problem solved, I have since checked any new die I buy...as I stated above, I found another one which would have caused problems if I hadn't polished it first.

[thursdaymike]

I will take a look at that too jonB thanx

[thursdaymike]

Now I'm really pissed. Why can it not work right. I see videos of guys using them no problem on YouTube. Mine breaks. Seriously I'm lifting up with one arm. I'm not that strong.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q239/mikestrane/Mobile%20Uploads/20160223_183722.jpg (http://s137.photobucket.com/user/mikestrane/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160223_183722.jpg.html)

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Oh no, that's a bummer.

[Stonecrusher]

That is a bummer. I started having problems with the bullets taking a lot more force than usual to push back out of my 450. After a little checking I found that one of the through bolts on the linkage was cracked and almost separated. Replaced the bolts and all was fine again.

Just something else to check especially after applying that much force. On my 450 the threads ended right where the linkage tied in making a weak spot. When I replaced the bolts I made sure that there was just enough thread to get the nut on properly so there was solid material at the shear point. I think I used a longer bolt and ran the threads back to the right spot with a die.

[RP]

I have a handle just like that not sure why I am saving it. I made myself a new handle since lyman thinks its something that is not under any kind of warranty. You have gotten some great advice already one thing I would do is check alinement of everything make sure the die and punch are in line and your not pushing a bullet in sideways.

[454PB]

I did the same thing to mine sizing quenched 45/70 boolits. I repaired the handle and now size them immediately after casting. Quenched WW alloy can be up to 26 BHN after aging a few weeks.

[thursdaymike]

Well I welded up the handle last night. Cast some new boolits. I still water dropped them. The ran them in the sizer. Still getting stuck. Then one of the bolts broke like someone stated again. I wasn't lifting hard with the lever. I was just beating on the bottom with a dead blow hammer. Is it because I'm water dropping my boolits.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

It sure seems like it'd be the boolit hardness or a rough die.

If you try sizing some boolits that weren't water dropped in a die that has been polished, and extracting the sized boolit is still difficult, then maybe there is a defect in the press, misaligned linkage or something??? I'm just guessing here.
Jon

[oso]

What top punch are you using? Does it match the boolit nose?

[Valley-Shooter]

What's the size of bullet you are casting?
Please measure it with a calipers or micrometer.

What's the size of your sizing die? Is it old or new?

You may need to use 2 sizing dies to get to your desired bullet size.

I had a problem when I was sizing for a new mold. The mold was bigger than my other molds. It took more effort to size the water quenched bullets. I changed my sizing die to a larger size and everything got easier. My barrel needed a bigger bullet anyway.:bigsmyl2:

[thursdaymike]

Bullets dropping 460-461. Sizing die is .459 . Looked at sizing die. I couldn't see any lines or machining marks.

[MakeMineLead]

Could the sizer die be undersized

[thursdaymike]

Top punch came with mold from noe

[Valley-Shooter]

What are the size of the bullets after u have got them unstuck?

[Mal Paso]

The casting the handle screws into was ground too close to the hole on mine and broke sizing water dropped 44 mag boolits down .003. I cut a new one out of 1/4" steel strap with more meat around the bolts. I added an inch or two to the handle.

[.22-10-45]

Try smearing bullet with something like lanolin..or a good case lube before running into die. What lube are you using in the 4500?

[chevyiron420]

I cant tell from the pic, but the pin on the bottom of the machine looks bent. I was thinking about this yesterday wile I was sizing and seating gas checks on some 32 boolits that are half linotype effortlessly. Try sizing a undersized boolit so that your just cycling the machine with no sizing going on to see if the machine is binding up on it own. I size aged linotype boolits for my 44 with no trouble. Something is wrong.

[HangFireW8]

I agree with chevyiron420, something is wrong.

I bought a 4500 in 2010, had to return it, the ram and the top punch didn't line up... at all. Trying to size on that thing was no fun. Lyman replaced it with no problems.

[thursdaymike]

So I tried sizing some 30 cal and they worked. Reinstalled 458 parts (trust me this was like the 10 th time) and walaa its working. Makes no sense. I'm thinking it was the lube. I boiled all the parts and cleaned them. Ran with no lube. I also broke one of the bolts on top. I replaced both with grade 8. So somewhere in there lied my problem.

[MT Chambers]

Not sure what the problem is but I have had to replace that handle part 3 or 4 times, that is why I recommend the RCBS model, or better yet, the Star. I have had some hard .501" bullets that none of my lubers would touch, the 700 grainer from LBT, not sure how I'll handle them!

[Bayouhunter]

I ordered two of the handle links yesterday plus another push pin, my 4500 broke at the link also.

[EDG]

I think these tools are mis-named. They should be called lubers only. I use only soft alloys and dies the same size that the bullet casts to .001 under.
I put very little pressure on the tool and have few problems because it is only lubing. I know that if I try to size a large diameter bullet using hard alloy something would break.

The last 450 that I bought was really cheap on Craig's list. It was still relatively new and it had a .358 die in it. But it obviously would not eject the bullets well because the previous owner had been using a hammer to assist backing the bullet out. The sheet metal ejector bracket hand been tapped on with a hammer many times. Though a nearly new 450 the bracket was peened from thousands of hammer taps used to back up the ejector pin.

[Travelor]

I bought the heater insert for my new 4500 and they size and lube with MUCH less force................

[Saltner]

I also had broken, see here how to repair
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?289200-Breaking-link-Lyman-4500&p=3396223#post3396223

[HangFireW8]

I bought the heater insert for my new 4500 and they size and lube with MUCH less force................

You got that right, even with soft lubes, a little heat goes a long way in a cool basement workshop. Also floating the top punch so it self-aligns, and then there was the defective misaligned batch I mentioned before.

But some folks would rather complain, fight their tools, give up or buy something else. I shoot a lot of non-flat-nose so a Star is not a one tool solution for me, but I might add one someday for large batches of flat points.

I figured out what was wrong with my 4500 in a day and had its replacement in less than 3 weeks, and it has sized many hard water dropped bullets since then including 8mm Maximum. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but mine just keeps on working.